Dish won't pay Gr. Bay FOX station any money for retransmision [Archive]

boma

08-04-03, 04:20 PM

Brett

08-04-03, 04:31 PM

About $.10 a local in market viewer. Not much. The stations dont make a whole lot of money from retransmission. Maybe less than 2% of their revenue is from retransmission. Its more a small additional income. The stations make more through local advertising and network compensation. Disney ties its affiliates to cable channels and can make more money this way. Cable systems and DBS operators are unwilling to spend a lot for local television stations, but will pay more for cable channels.

As for Dish and the local affiliate, Dish has had plenty of those holdouts. Wait about 2-3 months and the station and Dish should have an agreement.

There are still some stations like WKCF 18 (WB) in Orlando that Dish refuses to pay for. In Orlando for WB, one can purchase a superstation's programming WPIX there, for $1.50 extra.

Eyedox

08-04-03, 04:33 PM

Don't be so sure ... Des Moines ABC and WB have been holding out for 8 months from DISH and there is no sign of any progress.

angiodan

08-04-03, 04:57 PM

Fort Myers, FL FOX and CBS also holding out since launch in March.

Mike D-CO5

08-04-03, 06:28 PM

I doubt that Dish will give in first on any of these channels.

shilton

08-04-03, 06:31 PM

I have been in contact with the General Manager of FOX 11 in Green Bay (via email). I basically wrote to him to show my disapointment that they were holding out & Green Bay got put aside for locals on Dish.

To my suprise, Dish has offered "ZERO $$$" for retransmission.
To quote him, "Directv pays us a few cents a month for our signal and are finnaly able to compete with cable because of the local channels. All we want from Dish is the same deal".

I couldn,t believe that Dish would offer NOTHING so I emailed them. No surprise, they have never responded. At this point I tend to believe the General Manager at FOX 11.

I thought that they had to negotiate "in good faith". Offering ZERO is not in good faith.

Does anyone out there know how much Dish (or Directv) actually pays these stations for retransmission?? :nono2:
I am not sure how I feel about this issue. Put it this way...remember that for these stations, they are supposed to be FREE TV. Why should Dish have to pay too much (or anything) for something that we could just pick up for free if we lived in the market and had an antenna. Many local affiliates are quite happy to be carried as it boosts their viewership and thus their advertising dollars too. You'd think that they would want to be carried so they would give away or practically give away the rights to redistribute the signals. But I can see where they'd like to make a little money too. I guess its all in how you look at it.

scooper

08-04-03, 07:03 PM

There's more than 1 side to this -

Dish has their expenses for this operation -
All the equipment needed at the POP (tuners, digitizers, compressors), plus rental for the POP itself.
Data line of sufficient capacity back to their uplink center
PLUS any re-trans fees to the stations.

It's quite possible that Dish might be looking at the ratings report for the station and deciding that ANY retrans fee is too much for the marginal number of extra viewers gained.

All I'm saying is that you only have one side of this discussion so far. There's probably a good reason that D* and E* don't carry these out in public.

Greg Bimson

08-04-03, 09:13 PM

Originally written by shilton:
I am not sure how I feel about this issue. Put it this way...remember that for these stations, they are supposed to be FREE TV. Why should Dish have to pay too much (or anything) for something that we could just pick up for free if we lived in the market and had an antenna.Are you kidding me?

If these stations are FREE TV, why should Dish Network charge for it?

Bobby94928

08-04-03, 09:33 PM

Are you kidding me? If these stations are FREE TV, why should Dish Network charge for it?

Because it costs a hunk of change for Dish Network to put those stations on the satellite. Plain and simple. If you don't want to have an antenna, or an antenna won't work where you live, you have a choice of cable or satellite. Each one costs you money because it costs them money to get the signal to you...

shilton

08-04-03, 10:34 PM

Are you kidding me?

If these stations are FREE TV, why should Dish Network charge for it?
Dish is charging you basically a "convenience fee" for the ability to seemlessly get the programming along with everything else you have just like cable does...but according to their licensing, your locals are considered to be "free tv" and are supposed to be there to serve you the viewing public in their area. They get their license to be a benefit to the community. They can't charge for their services and that is why they sell advertising...because they are not supposed to charge you. But since the cable companies and the satellite providers are not obligated to carry these type of stations and they have to invest in technology to deliver them to you, sure they can and do charge...but the local broadcasters could not suddenly scramble their signals and charge you a fee to descramble them at your set...they must broadcast for free. If they transmit for free to you, it also seems fair that they transmit to Dish for free as well. How many cable companies do you think pay for the rights to rebroadcast these stations? I can tell you very few! In many markets, the broadcasters are begging to get put onto cable or satellite as they should since it is good for their bottom line to have the most viewers they can get.

bills976

08-04-03, 11:37 PM

There's more than 1 side to this -

It's quite possible that Dish might be looking at the ratings report for the station and deciding that ANY retrans fee is too much for the marginal number of extra viewers gained.

If this is true, Dish must be more clueless than I thought. The Green Bay FOX station carries Packers games, and anyone who has ever visited this area of Wisconsin (my in-laws live there) can tell you that these people would rather starve than not be able to watch their Packers.

Greg Bimson

08-05-03, 07:26 AM

Originally written by Bobby94928:
Because it costs a hunk of change for Dish Network to put those stations on the satellite. Plain and simple. If you don't want to have an antenna, or an antenna won't work where you live, you have a choice of cable or satellite. Each one costs you money because it costs them money to get the signal to you...Originally written by shilton:
If they transmit for free to you, it also seems fair that they transmit to Dish for free as well. How many cable companies do you think pay for the rights to rebroadcast these stations? I can tell you very few! In many markets, the broadcasters are begging to get put onto cable or satellite as they should since it is good for their bottom line to have the most viewers they can get.They do transmit to everyone, including Dish Network, for free. The difference is that no one can copy programming, repackage it, and resell it, without permission.

Oh, and cablers do pay for retransmission. Normally it involves structuring deals for other content, such as ABC does with ESPN and their owned and operated stations, but cablers do pay. Cablers generally pay a little more than Dish Network's offer.

And bills976 nailed it on the head. If any station is worth payment in any market, the television home of the Packers in Green Bay certainly would be.

The FOX station in Green Bay is owned by Emmis. Isn't Emmis giving Dish Network a problem in many other markets, Honolulu for one?

Charles Oliva

08-05-03, 10:49 AM

What funny about the Honolulu situation is that Emmis owns both KGMB(CBS) and KHON (FOX). According to Dish, KGMB is carried because of an old agreement with KGMB's former owner Lee Enterprises( isn't the Green Bay station a former Lee station). Emmis claims that what Dish offered KGMB(as well as the NBC/WB combo) was acceptable. But are asking for a $.25 for KHON since it's by far the No.1 news station in Hawaii, to paraphrase "people specifically watch our news and we should be conpensated for it".

woodman

08-05-03, 04:54 PM

Owners of TV broadcasting stations are in dire need of a wake-up call, and although it's being given very few are really "getting it".

The plain, unvarnished "fact of life" in the TV business is simply this:

The number of channels competing for viewers has multiplied like a bunch of rabbits, and if you want your business to survive you'd damn well better not get demanding about collecting any fee whatsoever for "re-transmission" from satellite or cable programming providers. Your stations' survival depends upon getting the maximum number of viewers that it's possible to get.

Sheesh! Talk about The Peter Principle in action ...

Msguy

08-06-03, 12:18 AM

Mike Richardson

08-06-03, 04:03 PM

Only another reason in favor of dropping dish and switching over to Direc Tv. The Fox Station in Green Bay is carried on Direc Tv and you would be able to see the Packers games on Sunday. Packers games are sold out for the next upteen years anyway and even if you didn't have the Local Green Bay Stations you'd still be able to see the Packers on Sunday Ticket with no blackouts!
Would you stop posting in every other DISH thread why DISH sucks and why everyone should throw away $1000s of equipment and pay $240 charges to get out of contracts so they can watch people throw a leather ball around on DirecTV instead?

Msguy

08-06-03, 09:26 PM

I visit some of these threads and I see some people complaining about why can't i see my game? Why can't I see the Cleveland Indians games why can't I see my Packers games. The Answer is simple. One CAN see the games if they get Direc Tv. In one of the earlier threads one poster who was a Cleveland Indians fan who has Dish said he was Finally able to see an Indians game because it went into extra innings way past the time alloted for the game to be aired. Just by chance he got to see an extra innings game at 12 o'clock in the morning because it went into like the 14th or 15th inning. If you want to see the games without hassels here is the Number 1-800-DIRECTV Green Bay Fans won't like the idea of this Fox Station not being aired on dish because Dish won't pay a few PENNIES a month to the Fox Station in Green Bay. All I can say is I feel for those folks. I love my Direc Tv. I Wouldn't have it any other way.

Mike Richardson

08-06-03, 10:39 PM

I think most of the people who visit this forum are very DBS-literate and have researched both DISH and DirecTV. If they really like football or baseball or whatever sport and they found DirecTV has more of it then they would switch if they deemed it would be worthwhile.

Karl Foster

08-07-03, 12:33 AM

Here, we are a one-professional sports town as is Green Bay. If the local station that carries Jazz games (KJZZ, channel 14) was not included in the local line-up on satellite, subscriptions for satellite service would plummet. Dish MUST get this resolved before the football season starts, or that cold wind blowing in November won't be coming off Lake Michigan, it will be from the number of Dish Network dishes flying off of roofs.

TNGTony

08-07-03, 12:59 AM

Right now Dish doesn't carry Green Bay AT ALL!!! The subscription numbers are not what they would be WITH the locals, but there are still plenty of subs in that area. The way some people talk it's like Dish couldn't pay some one to subscribe. NOT EVERYONE CARES ABOUT SPORTS!!!!! I wish the ardent boisterous sports fans out there would understand that. And there are sports fans like me that do not watch sports on TV on a regular basis! When I subscribed to Dish, they did not carry Sportschannel Cincinnati (became Fox Sports Ohio (cincinnati) later). OR my locals. Amazing how I still subscribed! The way it's described here, "no one" would have subscribed under the circumstances.

See ya
Tony

Mike Richardson

08-07-03, 12:41 PM

I could care less about the sports channels, I wish I could take them all off and save $10.

Mike D-CO5

08-07-03, 01:43 PM

Ditto :)

Msguy

08-07-03, 02:20 PM

One of the main reasons why I have Satellite Tv was for #1 the picture quality and #2 the sports. Take away the sports and Might as well go back to regular old cable. I WANT MY OUT OF AREA GAMES AS WELL AS MY LOCAL ONES. I'd Almost bet that more than ½ of the people out there that have Satellite TV have it because they can see and receive more Sports programming. Such as NFL Sunday Ticket and Major League Baseball. I care about the sports packs on Direc Tv and Dish network doesn't even come close to compare with Direc Tv!

reedl

08-07-03, 03:22 PM

I would seriously disagree with your claim that 1/2 of the people who get DBS get it because of more sports programming. I know of at least 10 DBS subscribers and all of them really do not care to pay some large sum of money to get more games at all. Most of them are quite happy receiving their local sports channels or local channels.

Remember not everybody in the world is a sports nut like you are. In fact I would probably say the last game I watched completely was the Super Bowl when the Patriots were in it. After that, I have probably watched 5 hours of sports programming in the 2 years since it happened. I really do not care about overpaid "athletes" running on a field. It does nothing for me

Mike Richardson

08-07-03, 03:53 PM

Almost everybody in the Houston market gets DBS because they move to a new neighborhood (there's literally hundreds of new neighborhoods that have popped up in the last few years) and Time Warner does not cable them up for at least half a year. Most of the people stay with DBS after their contracts are up and the neighborhood is cabled. And existing cable subscribers get it either for sports or for lower price.

TNGTony

08-07-03, 05:18 PM

I'd Almost bet that more than ½ of the people out there that have Satellite TV have it because they can see and receive more Sports programming. Such as NFL Sunday Ticket and Major League Baseball.

Then you will have to explain to me how Dish was adding 2 subscribers for every one that DirecTV added during a THREE YEAR PERIOD that dish did not have: NFL Sunday Ticket, MLB Extra Innings, NBA League Pass or NHL Center Ice. According to your statement half the people want sports so Dish would have just been competing for the other half of the customer base!

Dish now has NBA and NHL and the discrepency in new subscriber adds for the two DBS companies has evened out. Shouldn't it have been the other way?

Now...for the same periods in question, look at the package pricing. You'll see that for the period that Dish was raking in new subscribers 2 and sometimes 3 to one over DirecTV, Dish was whomping them on BASIC PROGRAMMING PRICING.

Yes...there is a good percentage of people out there that only care about sports. But it is not nearly as many as you claim. The numbers prove that.

Now...seeing as this was a DISH NETWORK THREAD and not a DirecTV is better than Dish because it has sports on it and Dish Sux thread...can we please get off this idiocy?

See ya
Tony

edeclark

09-16-03, 06:55 PM

Unfortunately, I'm probably going to be one of those non-sports fans that cancels their Dish subscription in the coming months due to the Green Bay locals placement @ 105 (whenever that finally happens...). I live in a rural area right now outside of Green Bay (several miles) that has no cable service and have had Dish for a VERY LONG TIME. I'm talking since just after they started service in April '96. Where I am right now I could take the 'free' SuperDish promotion when it becomes available with a 1 year contract extension when you have a minimum of AT50+locals because I live on an acre of land & the property belongs to relatives that don't care how many dishes I have or how big they might be. *HOWEVER* I will be moving TO Green Bay soon (as many people are in this job-starved area) and unless I can twist some arms I will be unable to install the much larger SuperDish due to lease restrictions. If Fox 11 had given in (or Dish decided to launch the other 5 or 6 channels WITHOUT Fox) chances are they would have ended up being available on 110 and I would have had no problems because I would've been able to get them with Dish500.

Now I have about 5 options I guess:

A) Find an apartment which will allow the 66cm Superdish (I haven't signed a lease yet but have already looked at places and have a few ideas and to be honest I think at least 1 of those places would find other reasons to NOT lease to me if I chose to install a dish at all!)

B) Keep the Dish500 & receive locals OTA

C) Switch to DirecTV

D) Get cable

E) Just pick up the locals with whatever picture I can receive and get nothing at all.

I'm leaning toward D or E because I think the other options could be quite a pain in the a**! Especially with moving during the Winter. I also think that most apartments are already set up for cable. I know when I call Dish to cancel they are going to try to talk me into their little DishMover program but I will make sure to POINT OUT TO THEM that due to the Green Bay situation and the fact that a superdish will be necessary for locals I CANNOT continue to be a Dish customer. Dish's fault? Fox 11's fault? BOTH I'm sure. MY loss though......and possibly the cable co.'s gain.....

Mike Richardson

09-16-03, 07:27 PM

Okay. I think other people could explain this better but I will try.

The way the FCC rules are for satellite dishes are simple:

- If you have access to rented property that is under your exclusive use, ie, a patio or balcony, you can put your dish there. You can't necessarily affix it to anything on the building but you could just stick it in a concrete bucket if you want to. THE APARTMENT CAN DO NOTHING ABOUT THIS IF THE DISH IS LESS THAN 1 METER. This is your RIGHT. And SuperDish is less than 1 meter.

- You can affix it to non exclusive areas like the outside wall if you get permission.

scooper

09-16-03, 07:41 PM

This is my sig. from AVS Forums...

You CAN put antennas on your owned and/or controlled property...

http://www.fcc.gov/mb/facts/otard.html

READ the link if you want DBS or an OTA antenna.

fslove

09-17-03, 12:34 AM

I think it's quite funny that this whole thread is based on a General Manager of a station in negociation with Dish and that everyone is taking this guys word as the truth! This situation is just like in Milwaukee, WI where a GM there for a station was spouting the same BS and it the end it was discovered he was the idiot trying to hold out for a much higher amount then is standard for re-transmission fees. Becuase of this GM's beligerence Milwaukee area Dish customers had to deal with Dish deciding to go with other local markets instead of continuing the BS with this GM. I believe this GM is gone now thus Milwaukee all of the sudden is on the short list to get on Dish soon.

When these companies get into negociations they will inevitably start putting out lies to get the public to put pressure on the other company to try and get them to cave in. It doesn't work with Dish but this GM in Greenbay probably feels the Packers on his channel gives him the edge in asking for more then other are asking for!

VASatelliteGuy

09-17-03, 07:47 AM

cj9788

09-17-03, 10:20 AM

One thing I never understood about the whole retransmission issue is why local stations want to be compensated for something they give away for free. Dish and Direct TV can only broadcast it back to the customers that can get it for free. Now if we could let the 21st century free market come into play we would be able to buy out of area networks and then I believe that the network should be compensated.

That has been my sentiment for a long time there is plenty of cash to be made in this untapped market i would pay 5.99 mabey 10.99 per market if they would let me.

Someone also mentioned the sports ch's. I hate them I am not a sports fan by any mneans. I have requested on numerous occasions to remove the sports ch's I get with AEP and I am told that can not be done. Apparently the sports ch's are packaged together with ch's like F/X and ToonDisney ect ect.

I love this ne hide ch feature I have locked all the sports and ppv sports and the like so the no longer appear on my EPG.

edeclark

09-17-03, 11:42 AM

I don't know whose fault it is. I suspect it might be Emmis or Jay Zollar the GM of Fox 11 but I can't be sure. I do see similarities to Milwaukee though.....another Wisconsin market which was passed over because of negotiation problems. Lets see if Madison does this now too.

A question though? Why didn't Dish just go ahead and launch the rest of the channels without Fox? They've done that in many other places. Yeah so Fox has NFL but big deal. The Green Bay market has the full slate of network stations including separate WB & UPN's so why let 1 out of 7 stations muck it up??

scottchez

09-17-03, 12:13 PM

All I can say is Call the Station every other day (use a different name) and tell them you can watch there station becuase they are not on Dish.

They will then say put up an Anntenna . . . . You then say but that will cost me $40 to $100 and it is not worth the cost you you can pay Dish $1.50 per month (ala carte pricing).

Also call / Email there advertisers, tell them you are not watching there Ads becuase the station want you to spent $40 + on an anntenna.

Call Email Dish network also. We are talking about small dollars here for Re-Trans- compared to the big Cable channel.

Maybe they will get tired of hearing from us.