Caution: DTV will "Steal" your money!

[HD AV]

! have been a loyal DTV customer for 15 years. I recently suspended my service and had been charged for the upcoming month which left me with a credit balance for that month. I temporarly activated my service for a partial month and incurred the charge for that time. It did not amount to the total of what DTV owed me, yet they charged my credit card for the partial month. Upon calling to get the charge removed from my card I was informed they would NOT! I was told I now have a higher credit balance with them than when I did upon suspending my service originlally! They said they would apply the credit amount to my bill when service is once again activated (in another six months). What they have done is illegal and amounts to fraud! Think about it, I already had a credit of slightly less than $100 and my usage amounted to less than $70. They charged my credit card for the $70+- usage and applied it as a credit on my account which I can not utilize until my service is reinsatated in 6 months. They are getting the use of, and interest on, my money for which I am paying interest on from the charge to my credit card! I'm going to report to my card company and, if I have my way, I will have their privilege to utilize my credit card company services revoked. Ask me if I'm pi.... I've never been late or missed a payment since I've been using their services and I ran into a stone wall concerning the charge to my card. They should have utilized the existing credit which would have still left me with a credit balance!

[dirtyblueshirt]

First, paying bills with a credit card is never a good idea, but that's not the issue here, so I'll continue...

Have you attempted to escalate this further up, or did you leave it at the CSR? If you don't get the results you're looking for at the first level, keep climbing the ladder.

[SPACEMAKER]

Are you pissed?

[inkahauts]

I have no idea what the T&C are for suspended accounts, you might want to look that up... But I can see why they do what hey do.. I have no idea if its legal though...

[Kheldar]

This is most likely what happened:
* You suspended your account part-way through a month that had already been billed to your credit card. This left a partial month's credit balance on your account. DirecTV does not refund credit balances while an account is suspended.
* Then you unsuspended your account for a while, during which time your next billing cycle started. When "they charged my credit card for the partial month", chances are this happened: a full month's charge was applied to your DirecTV account (because they always bill one month in advance), and then the partial credit you had on the account was subtracted off this balance. This amount was then charged to your credit card.
* You then re-suspended your account. Because you did this earlier in the billing cycle this time than you did the first time, there is a larger credit balance on your DirecTV account. As before, DirecTV does not refund credit balances while an account is suspended. Just like what happened during the temporary reactivation, the credit balance will apply to your DirecTV bill once your account is reactivated.

This is a perfectly legitimate billing method.

[lgb0250]

Don't know about the legalities involved here but I've had a couple of problems lately and here's how I got them resolved.

In the first case I was charged $199 for a receiver that I purchased myself from an outside vendor. After numerous calls and talking to CSR's and supervisors I got nothing resolved. I decided to write a letter to the CEO of D*. Within about 10 days I received a personal call from the office of the CEO and the problems was resolved. They immediately removed the $199 from my bill.

Three days ago I called and told a CSR that I wanted to cancel my FREE 90 day period of Starz and Showtime. The CSR told me I couldn't do that and to call back on Apr 20th which would be the 90th day. He said the system couldn't handle an early termination. I asked to speak with a supervisor and after being on hold for 10 minutes was as usual hung up on. I immediately fired off an email telling them how stupid this policy sounded and telling them I was going to send another letter to the CEO. Within 2hrs I had a return email and the service was cancelled. Absolutely amazing how quick they responded to something that couldn't be done!!

IMO these CSR's almost seem like they are on some type of commission basis. Oh well, all's well that ends well. GLTY.

[Jables]

First, paying bills with a credit card is never a good idea.

So should I feel retroactively stupid for doing it all these years with no problem?

And regarding the OP, I think what Kheldar posted sounds correct. Sounds like you just got caught by the minutiae of the billing rules.

[TBlazer07]

First, paying bills with a credit card is never a good idea, but that's not the issue here, so I'll continue....

What do you suggest? Cash? That statement goes against everything I have ever read, seen, heard and watched in the last 3 decades. Paying by credit card has saved my ass more times then I can count vs. cash, check or money order. Besides, what other method do you suggest for paying/shopping online?

Aside from that DirecTV requires a credit card on file with the exception of (I believe) PA and MA with the other alternative being a cash deposit which you get back at the rate of $5/month over 3 years.

Yes, a lot of people do not have a CC on file but they are now enforcing it where they did not before.

[dirtyblueshirt]

What do you suggest? Cash?

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time.

[bakerfall]

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time.

If someone screws up and overcharges you, or you are the victim of CC fraud, you are much, much better off using an actual credit card as opposed to a debit card. I was the victim of a CC fraud using my debit card about 5 years ago and after they got away with $2000 I almost missed a mortgage payment, ever since I've only used my credit card.

As long as you pay off the balance, why on earth would it be a bad thing?

[canesice]

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time.

that is just crazy. I refuse to own a debit card.. direct access to my money. uggh.

let me jointly take the risk with the credit card company..
Plus I can dispute through them for any false charges, while they hold the money at risk not me...

[ATARI]

Do not use a CC for auto-bill pay with D*. Rather, set up an automatic payment from your checking account. This way you control how much D* gets, and they can't go and charge your card, they can only send a bill, which you can dispute, but in the meantime you will not have a credit card balance to deal with.

I learned this the hard way last year.

[canesice]

Do not use a CC for auto-bill pay with D*. Rather, set up an automatic payment from your checking account. This way you control how much D* gets, and they can't go and charge your card, they can only send a bill, which you can dispute, but in the meantime you will not have a credit card balance to deal with.

I learned this the hard way last year.

now this I can agree with... but never a debit card in place of a credit..

Your best options to control the flow (in my opinion):

1) pay as billed - via manual payment by check, cash transfer, etc.
2) credit card
.
.
9999) debit card

[Gloria_Chavez]

Letters to Sr Officers at any firm are remarkably effective, and I say that as someone who has both sent them and received them (finance department of a major firm). I'm surprised that more people do not send them. But, do send snail mail, which is much more effective than email.

[SPACEMAKER]

Letters to Sr Officers at any firm are remarkably effective, and I say that as someone who has both sent them and received them (finance department of a major firm). I'm surprised that more people do not send them. But, do send snail mail, which is much more effective than email.

I work for a large utility co. and I agree that snail mail letters sent to the CEO are very effective for having legitimate conflicts investigated and resolved.

[SPACEMAKER]

that is just crazy. I refuse to own a debit card.. direct access to my money. uggh.

let me jointly take the risk with the credit card company..
Plus I can dispute through them for any false charges, while they hold the money at risk not me...

Never had an issue using my Visa debit card. I rarely even carry cash these days.

[techntrek]

Always use a credit card. Never use a debit card. The way the laws are structured you are covered much more effectively from 3rd-party fraud, and its much easier to force a charge-back due to a vendor's negligence or non-delivery. Your bank is not required to do a charge-back or cover more than $500 in fraud if you use a debit card. Charge-backs are easy with CC's and you are only liable for $50 in fraud.

Just found this on msnbc.com:

“Basically there is no risk to using a credit card,” says Schultheis. Federal consumer protection law limits the liability to $50. “Few issuers even impose the $50,” he adds.

Under the same scenario, many debit card issuers also assume the liability, but with qualifications. “Card companies advertise zero liability. But read the fine print,” advises Fox. Generally, the issuer requires notification within 48 hours of the occurrence. That window can close before a cardholder ever realizes there is a problem.

Even if cardholders make the deadline, they may be out of luck. While Visa says all signed purchases are treated just like credit card purchases and covered by zero liability and dispute resolution — including the online and telephone purchases experts advise against ever making with a debit card to begin with — PIN-based transactions processed through non-Visa networks may not qualify for the same treatment.

Even so, as long as fraudulent charges are reported within sixty days, the cardholder’s liability is capped at $500 — a rather large sum for a young adult. In the interim, the account will still be out the money.

“Also they lack the right of charge-backs, unlike credit cards,” says Fox. With a credit card, consumers can refuse to pay questionable charges, which are removed from their accounts while in dispute. With a debit card, the money is already out of the account. “It is up to the consumer to get it back — shifting the balance of power,” adds Fox, who likens debit

[wingrider01]

What do you suggest? Cash? That statement goes against everything I have ever read, seen, heard and watched in the last 3 decades. Paying by credit card has saved my ass more times then I can count vs. cash, check or money order. Besides, what other method do you suggest for paying/shopping online?

Aside from that DirecTV requires a credit card on file with the exception of (I believe) PA and MA with the other alternative being a cash deposit which you get back at the rate of $5/month over 3 years.

Yes, a lot of people do not have a CC on file but they are now enforcing it where they did not before.

New policy for CC on file, when I started with them there was no requirement for a CC on file. Outside of a corporate CC I have none, nor do I want one, as far as giving them my checking account number and authorizing them to auto-debit - hell no. I refuse to do this. Pay my Directv bill and 95 percent of my other bills through EFT initiated by me, when I want to pay it, the rest are mailed checks

[gregjones]

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time.

As someone that is an expert in this, this is not the safest method. You have more consumer protections using a credit card than a debit card. A credit card transaction, in most cases, can be disputed immediately with a provisional credit for the disputed amount.

Debit cards operate under different agreements and regulations and are not able to provide the same protection to a cardholder. This is logical in that paying with a credit card creates a debt you have yet to pay, whereas paying with a debit card immediately confers money to the payee.

[JeffBowser]

There ya go - user initiated EFT is a damn near perfect way to do things. No pieces of paper to mess with, and no automatic access for the outside entity.

New policy for CC on file, when I started with them there was no requirement for a CC on file. Outside of a corporate CC I have none, nor do I want one, as far as giving them my checking account number and authorizing them to auto-debit - hell no. I refuse to do this. Pay my Directv bill and 95 percent of my other bills through EFT initiated by me, when I want to pay it, the rest are mailed checks

[ATARI]

There ya go - user initiated EFT is a damn near perfect way to do things. No pieces of paper to mess with, and no automatic access for the outside entity.

+1

[dirtyblueshirt]

...paying with a credit card creates a debt you have yet to pay, whereas paying with a debit card immediately confers money to the payee.

Exactly my point... making debt out of debt isn't a smart move. Besides, now you'll be paying interest on a utility bill.

Everyone's got their own opinions on paying bills, and I find my debit card works great for me. Of course, as previously stated, an EFT is probably the safest method, but In my experience, I've never had a problem with my debit card (I also don't use auto pay, but prefer to authorize each transaction individually).

[moghedien]

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time.

This is why you shouldn't use a debit card with Directv....

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=120617&highlight=directv+overcharged+debit+card

[dirtyblueshirt]

This is why you shouldn't use a debit card with Directv....

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=120617&highlight=directv+overcharged+debit+card

As I mentioned above, I don't use auto pay, so I don't have that problem.

[bjamin82]

Its not illegal. By accepting the terms of auto pay, you agree that they will charge your card as they see fit. Not arguing the fact that they screwed up and charged you when they should have used the credit. It is however in their policy not to issue credits back to cards, but credits to the account. You also signed this.

Complaining to your credit card is fine, they will investigate and D* will send them a copy of your authorization to charge the card.

Is this the perfect system, no... did D* screw up, yup. Illegal, Definitely Not.

[Jon J]

Exactly my point... making debt out of debt isn't a smart move. Besides, now you'll be paying interest on a utility bill.You seem to overlook those of us who pay our credit card bills in full every month and find the single statement with all charges nicely arranged a very convenient way of dealing with it rather than keeping up with the myriad of debits throughout the month.

[Mike Bertelson]

! have been a loyal DTV customer for 15 years. I recently suspended my service and had been charged for the upcoming month which left me with a credit balance for that month. I temporarly activated my service for a partial month and incurred the charge for that time. It did not amount to the total of what DTV owed me, yet they charged my credit card for the partial month. Upon calling to get the charge removed from my card I was informed they would NOT! I was told I now have a higher credit balance with them than when I did upon suspending my service originlally! They said they would apply the credit amount to my bill when service is once again activated (in another six months). What they have done is illegal and amounts to fraud! Think about it, I already had a credit of slightly less than $100 and my usage amounted to less than $70. They charged my credit card for the $70+- usage and applied it as a credit on my account which I can not utilize until my service is reinsatated in 6 months. They are getting the use of, and interest on, my money for which I am paying interest on from the charge to my credit card! I'm going to report to my card company and, if I have my way, I will have their privilege to utilize my credit card company services revoked. Ask me if I'm pi.... I've never been late or missed a payment since I've been using their services and I ran into a stone wall concerning the charge to my card. They should have utilized the existing credit which would have still left me with a credit balance!This is definitely poor accounting on DirecTV's part. It's probably due to their standard billing practices not fitting this particular situation. They should have either credited back you card or sent you a refund. I would be just as mad as you are.

However, I fail to see why this is illegal. Stupid maybe but illegal?

Mike

[ricochet]

You seem to overlook those of us who pay our credit card bills in full every month and find the single statement with all charges nicely arranged a very convenient way of dealing with it rather than keeping up with the myriad of debits throughout the month.

Not to mention that you can also earn reward points. I've had my current credit card for 6 years and have never paid any annual fee, never paid any interest, and have received $1200 cash back from it.

[gregjones]

Exactly my point... making debt out of debt isn't a smart move. Besides, now you'll be paying interest on a utility bill.

Everyone's got their own opinions on paying bills, and I find my debit card works great for me. Of course, as previously stated, an EFT is probably the safest method, but In my experience, I've never had a problem with my debit card (I also don't use auto pay, but prefer to authorize each transaction individually).

This is not an opinion on debt. This is a message concerning your rights as a consumer. When you give a company your debit card number, you are giving them access to your checking account directly. You have significantly less recourse if you disagree with a charge. It is much more similar to handing them cash.

Now, if you accrue interest on your DirecTV bill because you did not pay the balance off, that is an exceedingly foolish practice. It is only slightly more foolish than giving a company access to your checking account (via debit card or automatic draft).

[Retro]

Credit Cards are so 90's! I don't buy anything on credit for obvious reasons, i don't like owing people, especially in today's uncertain economy... There is nothing wrong with using a debit card for paying any bill, however use your head!

You can easily open additional accts at a bank with addtl debit cards and only keep a certain amount of funds on them according to your needs.. Most people will figure out this is much cheaper than the interest your paying on a c/c.

[TBlazer07]

I use my Visa Debit card. Works every time. If you were talking about DEBIT VS CREDIT that's another story. I "lump" debit cards in with credit cards as they are both plastic.

However it is a fact that a debit card is more dangerous to your funds then a credit card since any "theft" comes right from your bank account. I was hit with an account clearing withdrawl of many thousands of dollars from my bank via a debit card by someone from Russia about 3 years ago. The bank eventually did resolve it but not after about 20 checks bounced causing me problems all over the place. When I had my AMEX hacked for $500 a month ago it was resolved in less than 10minutes.

[gregjones]

In terms of consumer safety, I recommend using a single credit card for normal bill payment. Put only recurring normal charges on it so it is obvious if there is a charge that is unusual in any way. Treat the balance on it as a single payment from your checking account. This insulates you from a great deal of effort should that card be compromised. You have the maximum amount of protection available from any form of payment and you may be able to leverage some rewards (though these should never be used as rationale for overspending).

This will keep you as safe as possible with minimal inconvenience. A debit card or bank draft is terribly convenient until an unexpected or fraudulent charge overdraws your account. Few of us have the 3-6 weeks that it normally takes to untangle such issues.

[gregjones]

Credit Cards are so 90's! I don't buy anything on credit for obvious reasons, i don't like owing people, especially in today's uncertain economy... There is nothing wrong with using a debit card for paying any bill, however use your head!

You can easily open additional accts at a bank with addtl debit cards and only keep a certain amount of funds on them according to your needs.. Most people will figure out this is much cheaper than the interest your paying on a c/c.

You do realize you do not pay interest on a credit card balance if you pay it off each month, I hope. There is a huge difference between using a credit card and paying off the balance each month versus using a credit card to spend money you do not have.

[TBlazer07]

Do not use a CC for auto-bill pay with D*. Rather, set up an automatic payment from your checking account. This way you control how much D* gets, and they can't go and charge your card, they can only send a bill, which you can dispute, but in the meantime you will not have a credit card balance to deal with.

I learned this the hard way last year.

I'd much rather have a disputed credit card bill to deal with (because the dispute is ALWAYS credited back during the dispute) then a disputed checking account withdrawal.

How can you "control everything they get?" If you have $2000 in your account and they incorrectly try to hit you for $1999.00 instead of $19.99 the $1999 will come out of your account and you will have to wait until they fix it.

If you MAIL THEM a check, that's a different story. Once they have your account info they can make all the errors they want.

[Retro]

You do realize you do not pay interest on a credit card balance if you pay it off each month, I hope. There is a huge difference between using a credit card and paying off the balance each month versus using a credit card to spend money you do not have.

You do realize that most people do not pay their credit cards off monthly? I'm sure a few people do, but the vast majority don't thus the reasons bank's make so much money! BTW, Even if you do pay it off monthly, your still spending money you don't have, yet, because generally people anticipate having that regular paycheck to cover what they buy when cash is low at the moment of a particular purchase!

[ATARI]

I'd much rather have a disputed credit card bill to deal with (because the dispute is ALWAYS credited back during the dispute) then a disputed checking account withdrawal.

How can you "control everything they get?" If you have $2000 in your account and they incorrectly try to hit you for $1999.00 instead of $19.99 the $1999 will come out of your account and you will have to wait until they fix it.

If you MAIL THEM a check, that's a different story. Once they have your account info they can make all the errors they want.

Just so we're clear:
BEST: automatic EFT that you set up for a fixed amount
OK: write them a check (just don't forget to write it and send it on time and hope the postal service delivers it)
NOT GOOD: autopayment with a credit card
BAD: autopayment with a debit card

[TBlazer07]

Never had an issue using my Visa debit card. I rarely even carry cash these days. That's exactly what I said up till a couple years ago until someone supposedly from Russia hit me up for almost $5000 from what I think was a gas-station purchase off my Wachovia Debit Visa. The bank put me through lots of work before they eventually resolved it.

I too rarely carry cash but I now use AMEX (Costco) for 100% of EVERYTHING I buy, even a $3.00 purchase. Aside from the $400-500 in cash rebates I get every year (including 4% on gas & 3% on restaurants) it is the safest way to purchase.

Of course if one can't control their spending and always carries a balance that's another story.

[TBlazer07]

Just so we're clear:
BEST: automatic EFT that you set up for a fixed amount
OK: write them a check (just don't forget to write it and send it on time and hope the postal service delivers it)
NOT GOOD: autopayment with a credit card
BAD: autopayment with a debit card

Once someone has your banking information (account number and routing number or debit card info) you're exposed. If your computer is hacked and they get your checking account and routing info they can still drain your account dry.

Using DirecTV as an example they can "take" from ANY account information you have given them as long as you have been a subscriber. I think that is stated in their terms.

Edit: It takes a LOT more effort to get funds replaced from a banking or debit card error or theft than it does from a credit card.

[Doug Brott]

It seems we've sufficiently answered the question and significantly veered off topic .. Remember, we talk satellite here .. not banking ;)