View Full Version : Scott's Take on last nights Charlie Chat
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 07:42 AM
The following is a commentary by Scott Greczkowski, the views expressed are not necessarily those of DBSTalk.COM or any of it's staff or members
For the past few chats I have been in contact with the chat producer Rhonda who usually provides me with a schedule of what they will talk about on the upcoming chats. Yesterday morning I emailed her asking for some insight I could pass along.
Within minutes I received the following in my email box.
I appreciate your concern for tonight's broadcast. I can't go into great detail about the content, but I can tell you that it is our intention to assuage the anxiety some of our customers are feeling.
I, along with the executive team, have been paying close attention to what's going on in chat rooms on the net. And the concerns are not falling on deaf ears. (or blind eyes as the case may be!)
I appreciated her quick reply and her enthusiasm and passed her comments on to the public.
After last nights chat, I am now scratching my head wondering if the executive team is really deaf, dumb and blind.
First off to Charlie's credit he was there, he looked and acted like he has not slept in a long time, and from what I know this is probably the case, I hear he flew in just to do last nights chat. While his dedication to appear on his own chat was great, maybe it would have been better if he was sleeping in some Motel 6 then trying to convey the future of his company to the general public.
Out of the gate I knew we were in trouble when they showed the recent launch of the new Echostar satellite and Charlie mentioned that 121 would be used for HDTV, this is after it was already announced that HD would be going to 105 and Internationals would be going to 121.
The night just got worse from there.
Charlie announced that the SuperDish would be available "around" October 1st. Again Charlie throws his customers the curve ball by adding "around" again failing to give it high dollar customers a firm date for the products launch.
While I was not surprised at all by the October date (if you have been reading here at DBSTalk for awhile I have been saying for weeks that Dealers are not even being trained on how to install a SuperDish until late September) but was disappointed that he did not and could not name a firm date.
Next up was the announcement of the launch of HDNet and HDnet Movies, these two channels which Charlie told us were coming "this summer" will now not appear until "around" October 1st.
It is my feeling that Dish is REALLY blowing things regarding HDnet, we know that they are already setup to broadcast it as they recently aired the cart race from HDnet.
If I were running the ship at Dish HDnet would already be up in free preview mode. I would have HDnet airing on the Dish HDTV Demo Channel to get people with older 5000 receivers and 6000 owners without 8psk modules to want to upgrade. As a bonus to those who got a 8psk module to watch ONE channel in the past year I would offer HDNet movies in free preview on the HD Events channel.
Come on Charlie, offer the public some eye candy now for free, when the package becomes available the public will want it. It's like the baseball movie, "If you build it they will come"
Next up they showed a handful of HD channels they hope to have in the future, I noticed ESPN-HD was listed as number one.
Let me let you in on something I know. I have been told by both Echostar and ESPN folks that Dish Network has had a contract for ESPN-HD since before ESPN-HD launched! While I have been quiet about this because I understand why Dish is holding ESPN-HD back other sites including Dan Collins from DBSForums has reported this for a long time now. The fact of the matter is Echostar has never ever disputed this information. To say we are trying to negotiate a fair deal with ESPN is both a slap in the face to ESPN and to the general public.
Things got worse again when someone called in later in the show and asked when the 721 would have Dish Home (openTV) and the reply from the unnamed person in the peanut gallery said they were hoping to have it available in October. At least Charlie was in the right frame of mind when he said "October of what year?"
While I love my 721 and I believe that the 721 team is doing an excellent job, I find it very hard to believe that Dish Home will be on the 721 in October. Being one who has been testing software on the 721 I can tell you that the beta process is very extensive and it takes a long time from the alpha until its ready for the home user. The software I have been testing I first received in February and it still has not been released yet to the general public.
Again it's not a bad thing that the 721 team is doing a world class job of testing it's software, it's just bad an unrealistic date for the Dish Home release was made last night. Because we did not see (or for that matter barely heard) who said it, it is hard to point the finger.
If you were in the chat room last night you notice that many folks were VERY happy with the fact there was no announcement of the DVR fees, many in the chat felt that the producers comments meant that they heard us about the DVR fees and that they listened.
Of course just a few moments before the chat ended Charlie slipped the DVR fees in, I considered it another slap in the face to the consumer.
Ultimately when the night was done I was convinced more then ever that the executive team at Dish Network were indeed deaf dumb and blind.
As I type I am thinking to myself whats the problem at Echostar?
Is the problem because they always announce new products and channels way before they should?
Is the problem because the marketing department has no clue and does not care of whats going on in the tech department?
And while I am asking questions why is it that Charlie still considers HDTV a niche product? My feeling is when you can walk into any WalMart and buy an HDTV it is no longer a Niche product, the fact that my local cable companies have HDTV available now and heavily advertise it also shows me HDTV is no longer a niche product.
Last night in the chat I was called an eternal optimist, and that may be true to some regard. DBSTalk.COM is here to promote the DBS technologies and services, so when I am told that they will ease the anxiety I felt I needed to believe them.
Ultimately its a shame the left hand at Echostar has no clue what the right hand is doing. And the man in charge also has no clue whats going on so he goes on national TV and wings it. To him I say go to bed Charlie get some sleep, you need it, hopefully when you wake up from your dream you can grab the reigns again and pull your company back into order.
cbusbee
08-12-03, 08:02 AM
Well put, Scott. I agree with your sentiment. I am also outraged that they have a contract with ESPN-HD but are witholding it from us, their customers. Are they holding this channel back to make us pay the upgrade fee for getting the Superdish. They know how bad we want it and want to get something out of us to get it. Directv has only been charging something like $8 shipping to give customers the third lnb to get all hdtv. What an outrage. Give us our ESPN. Don't hold us hostage. Get rid of some of the deadweight channels like the demo channel or the hd events channel. You can use the PPV channel for special events like the U.S. Open before CBS has it. Think of satisfying your customers instead of alienating them....
I regret that I must agree with all your points. It is even worse that you were told they are listening and reading and would address the issues, to then have the opposite happen. On the current issues that everyone is upset about, I can no longer even try to defend Dish. To charge those that are paying the most (I.E. Top 150, purchasing an expensive PVR, and for many an additional movie channel or two) additonal fee after fee ($4.99 EACH additional receiver, $4.99 EACH additonal PVR) is not going to happen in this household. If it means getting only OTA HD with my DTC 100, and keeping only my 508 with free PVR then that is what we will do. If it means looking into Direct TV, then that is what we will do. (Cable is still quite abit more expensive here and picture quality only ok on some channels, so Cable is still out.) With Panasonic DVD recorders now with harddrives that can act pretty much as a PVR, that also is a possibilty. (Though not HD)
John Hodgson
08-12-03, 08:11 AM
"Is the problem because the marketing department has no clue and does not care of whats going on in the tech department?
"
I would imagine that's 90% of the problem Scott - It's been that way for years with high tech companies - at least the ones I've worked with.
Richard King
08-12-03, 08:12 AM
After last nights chat, I am now scratching my head wondering if the executive team is really deaf, dumb and blind.The solution is to quit discussing anything with anyone outside the company. This is the first thing that I would ORDER of my people if I were in Charlie's shoes.
Out of the gate I knew we were in trouble when they showed the recent launch of the new Echostar satellite and Charlie mentioned that 121 would be used for HDTV, this is after it was already announced that HD would be going to 105 and Internationals would be going to 121.
Things change. That's life. I am sure they are doing this change just to rile you and others on this forum up. Don't count on anything until both satellites are in place and fully tested. They may have found that when the old satellite was moved into 105 didn't have the footprint they needed to do the best job with HDTV and changed plans as needed. Would you rather have HD on a satellite that has less power or possibly doesn't have even coverage over the country?
Let me let you in on something I know. I have been told by both Echostar and ESPN folks that Dish Network has had a contract for ESPN-HD since before ESPN-HD launched! While I have been quiet about this because I understand why Dish is holding ESPN-HD back other sites including Dan Collins from DBSForums has reported this for a long time now. The fact of the matter is Echostar has never ever disputed this information. To say we are trying to negotiate a fair deal with ESPN is both a slap in the face to ESPN and to the general public.See point 1 above.
Is the problem because they always announce new products and channels way before they should?Bingo. They also leak too much to people who shouldn't be in the loop.
GreyGhost00
08-12-03, 08:21 AM
I think this entire fiasco shows just how much disarray E* has fallen into. I've been with E* for 6+ years and am surprised at this decline. There's been a clear difference since the merger train wreck, and all for the worse. It's almost as if they had no plan should the merger not be approved, and they've been reeling ever since.
The fact that they've been withholding ESPNHD is especially puzzling. Why would you not put it up if you have a contract in place? Even if the decision was made to charge for it, I'm certain most folks would fork over additional $$.
In an industry where subscriber acquisition costs are so high, why would they risk losing one of the best demographic groups without any effort to retain them? Just doesn't make sense on any level.
There have been some in the industry who say Charlie's ready to cash his chips in - perhaps they're right.
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 08:39 AM
Ok to answer some of your points...
The solution is to quit discussing anything with anyone outside the company. This is the first thing that I would ORDER of my people if I were in Charlie's shoes.
This was the order, but still stuff got out. I think I can safely say that I have over 50 contacts at Dish Network who pass me stuff, that's not going to stop by any order.
Infact the reason Dish Network opened up to us was because they knew one way or another the information would get posted here, and Dish would rather have correct information posted then incorrect information.
I am also outraged that they have a contract with ESPN-HD but are witholding it from us, their customers. Are they holding this channel back to make us pay the upgrade fee for getting the Superdish. They know how bad we want it and want to get something out of us to get it.
Remember this has never been publicly announced by Dish, yet they have never denied this fact eaither. If I were Dish I would indeed say ESPN-HD will join the Dish HD lineup on October 1st. But I am not Dish. :)
There have been some in the industry who say Charlie's ready to cash his chips in - perhaps they're right.
I also believe this to be true, I have a feeling we will see a new partner come on board with Dish such as a CBS or even Disney, ultimately it is something Charlie needs to do. Many of the folks I talk to at Dish say Charlie has not been himself lately and when they see him its a rare occasion. I don't see Charlie completely selling out, Dish is his baby, but I could see him partnering with someone big and taking a lot of the weight of his shoulders.
Thanks everyone for your comments so far. :)
Why would it be so hard for Charlie to just come out and say "We bet the farm on the merger, and now, unfortunately, we have to play catchup. We have changed our HD strategy, and will offer the absolute best deal we can to our HD customers on the new technology as soon as it is ready for primetime."
I think that being honest with us 6-8 months ago would have been better than stringing everyone along for so long.
I know that stockholders would probably have a fit if he just came out and told us, but at least we might have been a little more understanding of the situation if we didn't feel betrayed and led on from the get-go.
Jeff
The sales pitch last night, the new DVR fees for Wall St. the $500 million investment by SBC all indicate DISH is for sale. I think SBC'S offer of $10 BILLION for Directv may have upset the apple cart a little, I really think Charlie was hoping to expand their investment. I switched to Directv for my personal subscription July 27th but because I have $60/mo. in Club Dish credits I kept 1 receiver active on DISH because I couldn't figure any other way of getting the credits I earned. I gave up watching the chat when "Mail Call" showed up, I PVRd the chat but I haven't been able to stomach it to see the rest.
Good commentary Scott!
I would love to see Dish respond to your comments. :eek2:
clapple
08-12-03, 09:47 AM
If they really have a contract with ESPN-HD, then why can't they give us the NFL games, on the "Events" channel? Even as pay per view, that would satisfy most of us. "About Oct.1" + distribution and installation of super dish translates into the NFL season being half over (at least) before we see any ESPN-HD!
Ok, as far as ESPN-HD, the most reasonable explaination is that the current (boilerplate) ESPN contract gives all providers the right to carry all ESPN channels at current "Card" rates. (read retail $$) What this means is that when Dish last signed with e*, there was a clause to this effect. E*, being a tough negotiator, got a good price on all the current channels when they last negotiated, but since ESPN-HD wasn't *explicitly* listed (As it wasn't announced), it fell into the catch-all clause. From what we've read about ESPN-HD's asking price, I can understand Charlie wanting to renegotiate that channel. If he were to start offering it (even under a limited set of circumstances) his bargaining position on renegotiation would be substantially impacted.
Richard King
08-12-03, 10:24 AM
This was the order, but still stuff got out. I think I can safely say that I have over 50 contacts at Dish Network who pass me stuff, that's not going to stop by any order.IF this is the case then someone at Dish needs to be made an example of. Eliminating one person from the payroll who leaks things that shouldn't be leaked would go a long way in solving this problem.
Richard King
08-12-03, 10:27 AM
John K stated:
A bunch of good, reasonable stuff. Probably as good a speculation on the state of ESPNHD as anyone has posted.
Thanks John, a voice of reason.
"Is the problem because they always announce new products and channels way before they should?"
We are never satisfied. First, we badger E* into giving up "advance" info on new hardware and programming. Then, when they relent and "leak" something in a well-meaning, but futile attept to satisfy our voracious collective appetite for knowledge, we turn around and criticize them for leaking premature and incomplete information. We can't have it both ways. We are but a handful of E*'s 8.5 million subs. What makes any of us think that we have the right to inside information, or that we represent the masses. Fact is, we are the tail trying to wag the dog. EchoStar's employees may read this and other DBS-related boards, but it's more likely for laughs than for insight.
"I could see (Charlie) partnering with someone big and taking a lot of the weight of his shoulders."
Yeah, just as Ted Turner 'partnered' with TW, then AOL. :rolleyes: Now Ted's been put out to pasture like the cattle on his zillion-acre Montana ranch. I can see Charlie going off and developing his own super-mini DBS technology with a 10" parabolic dish, or a phased-array self-aiming panel.
Charlie Ergen is a whole lot smarter than most of you give him credit for, and if "we" are so damn smart, why aren't "we" rich? Get off your collective 'high-horse' and quit trying to run the company. If you don't like the way Charlie & crew are doing things, vote with your feet! But quit your bellyaching - it makes you sound like a loser.
[The comments above are intended for digruntled DishNetwork subscribers only, not necessarily for dealers and installers, who have their own problems with E*.]
Cyclone
08-12-03, 10:54 AM
I'm more optimistic.
I see that to provide for growth that E* needed to increase its satellite fleet. That takes time and big $$$. Since SuperDish is happening this year instead of 2005, I have to believe that this is the backup plan for a failed merger and has been in the works for a long time.
I believe that the new HD programming and HD hardware are being held up until All of SuperDish is ready to be launched as a service. This includes the internationals. Once all of the pieces are in place, then they can start their campaign.
I think that everyone who follows the dbs news so closely loses track of what people would know outside of this community. People always say how disappointed they are the nothing new was announced in the Chat. Well. If you hadn't heard it on the net, then it would have been new on the Chat. The CC is not exclusive to the dbstalk avsforum crowds. There are people out there who just learned of SuperDish for the first time via the tech forum last month. Or heard of ESPN-HD and other HD channels for the first time last night. We have a head start on news around here.
I work in a company that develops software. I know the nature of beast. SuperDish is launching in early October instead of the Sept 21st Summer deadline. Not that big of a slip considering they never gave a hard date. The likely story of the 921's delay is that the 921's developers know that they don't have to have it ready until SuperDish is ready. E* wouldn't release it until then anyway. But I bet the pressure is beginning to increase now that SuperDish is right around the corner.
And of course none of the new HD channels are going to be on 61.5/148? They want to sell SuperDish. They want you to get SuperDish. SuperDish is the HD future. Why in the hell would they give you a reason to stay on the wings? All of the new HD-PPV channels will be on SuperDish. You should be there instead of the wings.
PVR fees: Easy answer. Everyone else is charging them. I don't like it either. I hope it goes away like the remote control fees in old days of cable went away.
Cyclone
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 10:58 AM
We are never satisfied. First, we badger E* into giving up "advance" info on new hardware and programming. Then, when they relent and "leak" something in a well-meaning, but futile attept to satisfy our voracious collective appetite for knowledge, we turn around and criticize them for leaking premature and incomplete information.
Nick I hear what your saying, and almost agree with you however it is almost three years since the 921 has been announced. We would have never known about the 921 if Dish didn't show it at CES.
And then other things like announcing 100 new international channels, and all these new local markets and the announcement of up to 50 new HDTV channels. They keep putting the cart in front of the horse.
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 11:01 AM
Cyclone,
I must admit as much as I was disapointed with last nights chat, I am still very excited at whats coming down the line for Dish Network.
Charlie was smart to line all this stuff up, yes there are a lot of bumps in the road but I believe the destination is in site.
The hard part is waiting, I think we are getting really tired of to find out more "tune in next month"
Ultimately Dish Network has a real distinct advantage over DirecTV because of the addition of these two satellites to their fleets.
While I am fustrated now I know there is a payoff at the end of the rainbow. :D
Based on last nights chat I sent in the following questions to Dish today:
Question: Can you please clearify something. On the July Tech Chat we were told that there would be two SuperDish configs, one for 105/110/119, which would cover HD channels and one for 121/110/119 which would be for international channels.
On last nights Charlie Chat Charlie said that Dish needed to get Echostar 9 online at 121 before Dish could add new HD programming, which would imply that 105 would NOT be used for HD programming, can you please clearify?
Also, once SuperDish goes online with the new HD programming, would the current programming that's on 61.5 and 148 be mirrored on one of the SuperDish slots or would we also need to keep a 61.5/148 dish around for HBO-HD, Showtime-HD, etc? I need to know since based on some info provided on the DBSForum web site it was said if I need access to all four slots I'd have a problem with my Dish 6000 until a DishPro 4:4 switch would be out which isn't schedule until sometime in 2004.
The response I just got back from Dish:
Thank you for your email correspondence. Currently the information you are requesting is not available.
Sincerely
Mark H.
Technical Support
Doesn't that response give you a warm fuzzy feeling that Dish knows what their doing, NOT!
I think this entire fiasco shows just how much disarray E* has fallen into. I've been with E* for 6+ years and am surprised at this decline. There's been a clear difference since the merger train wreck, and all for the worse. It's almost as if they had no plan should the merger not be approved, and they've been reeling ever since.
I totally agree. Dish Quality took a nosedive as soon as the merger was proposed. It's almost as if all pre-merger R&D was frozen for the entire time that the merger was WIP. The company "coasted" for over a year and lost all of their momentum. Now Charlie is struggling to make up for a year-long lapse in R&D.
Why would it be so hard for Charlie to just come out and say "We bet the farm on the merger, and now, unfortunately, we have to play catchup. We have changed our HD strategy, and will offer the absolute best deal we can to our HD customers on the new technology as soon as it is ready for primetime."
Exactly! Most of the people on this board are (were) loyal Dish customers and would have cut Charlie some slack if he had just been honest. Instead, Charlie made so many empty promises that even the most loyal Dish customer is now ready to defect to D*. I think that in the long run, Charlie will get back on track. However, many Dish customers are now so frustrated that they may switch to D* while Charlie is playing catchup.
The following is a commentary by Scott Greczkowski, the views expressed are not necessarily those of DBSTalk.COM or any of it's staff or members
If I were running the ship at Dish HDnet would already be up in free preview mode. I would have HDnet airing on the Dish HDTV Demo Channel to get people with older 5000 receivers and 6000 owners without 8psk modules to want to upgrade. As a bonus to those who got a 8psk module to watch ONE channel in the past year I would offer HDNet movies in free preview on the HD Events channel.
No you wouldnt if HDNet were still a DBS exclusive to D* until say around Sept. 1 when it'll about mark the 2 year anniversary of deing on D*. Not to mention that coincidentally or otherwise thats when it's no longer free on D*.
HDNet said the Cart race deal would be made available to anyone that wanted it. Well, Dish wanted it and they delivered it.
And if E*'s original plan was to launch HDNet on or about the Sept. 1 timeframe (until the Superdish scheduled timeframe was revealed) that would have put it in the "summer" timeframe.
Look, I dont blame E* HD subs for being upset these days. But still I think it's fair to point out that over the last 3-4 years they've shown far more commitment to HD programming than D* has over that time. Even if they've "blown it" over the last 3-4 *months* in regards to ESPN HD. I guess it's just that now we're supposedly this close to the Superdish concept, he figures that a far bigger splash will be made (and of course more justification to get people to upgrade) if theres a number of HD channels launched all at once on his service. Even if some of his "old timers" HD wise, dont like that notion too much. I'm one of those myself, but it so happens I get D* HD also so of course my opinion on the matter has to factor that in.
sampatterson
08-12-03, 12:33 PM
Nice posting Scott. I agree with your points. The one thing that might keep me from switching to DirecTV is the abundance of bandwidth that Dish will have with their 121 and 105 locations, on top of 119/110. For HDTV, this can mean that Dish really *will* be able to have 50+ HD stations (probably not 100+ that they are claiming). I like my 721 so probably will like my 921 when it comes next year.
DirecTV hasn't announced their true strategy for HD bandwidth yet, so only time will tell. I do want HD, and I want it delivered without extra compression (ala the current DirecTV model.).
The one thing that still holds true (in my book) is that DirecTV and/or Dish are STILL 10 times BETTER THAN DIGITAL CABLE!! Lack of good PVRs, HDTV service going in/out, for example, Comcast Atlanta has had lots of problems with their HDTV channels being off for days at a time. Lets hope that Charlie and team will hear his consumers complaints and judge by our educated reaction what many of his other less educated subscribers will feel...
Cyclone
08-12-03, 12:59 PM
I remember a few other I can't wait until its done episodes since I've been on the Internet.
1996: Netmech from Activion for Mechwarrior2. It was supposed be with Mech2 DOS with its release in Sept 95. Actual availability: July 1996.
1998: Jailbreak 2.5 Mod for Quake2. Again another long wait.
2002: Thrustmaster Cougar Joystick. All Metal F16 style Joystick. Everyone cried about this for 2 years. Bumped from rumour month to rumoured month. Released April/May 2002.
During these wait periods it was very similar to what I'm seeing here. A lot of "broken promises" that where never made in the first place. A lot of "they are just screwing us blah blah". But in the end its always the same. The product gets release. Everyone evaluates it for what it is, and then forgets the wait.
It will all be good in the end.
Did I mention Duke Nukem Forever?
Cyclone,
Ultimately Dish Network has a real distinct advantage over DirecTV because of the addition of these two satellites to their fleets.
While I am fustrated now I know there is a payoff at the end of the rainbow. :D
What people seem to forget is that DirecTV has access to much more Ku-FSS space than Dish. Last time I checked PanAmSat had much ore capacity than Dish.
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 01:11 PM
DBS you are correct however those slots would require a second Dish, all Dish's slots can be hit with one dish. :D
Curtis0620
08-12-03, 01:13 PM
D* has Ka-band Licenses at 101.
dmodemd
08-12-03, 01:13 PM
If I were running the ship at Dish HDnet would already be up in free preview mode. I would have HDnet airing on the Dish HDTV Demo Channel to get people with older 5000 receivers and 6000 owners without 8psk modules to want to upgrade. As a bonus to those who got a 8psk module to watch ONE channel in the past year I would offer HDNet movies in free preview on the HD Events channel.
Well the strategy very soon is going to be to get people to drop the unsupported 5000 and 6000s for the new line of HD receivers.
They seem to be holding out putting these new HD channels to coincide with SuperDish and leverage their addition to getting people to upgrade to SuperDish, otherwise people have no reason to upgrade until those first channels come out that REQUIRE it. Since they are only adding, what, 5-6 channels, HDNet is key to hold back. Note that some of those channels are part of premium movie packages anyway so not everyone is going to want to pay for them and they won't be part of HD pak.
They hinted they will provide some sort of promotion for SuperDish for existing 5000/6000 customers. I would expect it would be something like $99 + year of commitment to upgrade. Then you can get the HD Pak for $10.99 which will equal or (temporarily) exceed DirecTV's offering.
I don't think they want to FREE PREVIEW anything until they have something to sell! I think the Discovery free preview was only out once they were set up to have you call and buy it.
Mike D-CO5
08-12-03, 01:20 PM
I hope that next months HDTV extravaganza will fill all of us in on their plans. If they dont' tell us what is going on by then they might do some real damage beyond repair on their business reputation. Wallstreet might look negatively on these vague plans of Charlie and the stocks will drop. Also Rupert should be getting his hands on Directv by the end of this year , and also Rainbow will be launching it's sat lineup by October time frame , so charlie better get a move on before the competition leaves him in the dust.
Over all I still love Dish better then Directv and Cable which I also have . I guess I am a masochist. :confused:
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 01:27 PM
D* has Ka-band Licenses at 101.
Ahh its not listed on the chart I have here. :)
You learn something new every day! :D
Scott Greczkowski
08-12-03, 01:28 PM
Well the strategy very soon is going to be to get people to drop the unsupported 5000 and 6000s for the new line of HD receivers.
The 6000 is SuperDish compatable, although for $299 I might upgrade the 6000 for the 811. :)
I hope that next months HDTV extravaganza will fill all of us in on their plans. If they dont' tell us what is going on by then they might do some real damage beyond repair on their business reputation.
That's the same thing a lot of people said about last night's chat. I haven't seen a lot of people who have absolutely said that they are leaving Dish for Directv.
Jeff
D* has Ka-band Licenses at 101.
A quick look on PanAmSat's website also shows Ku slots at 91, 95, 99, 123, and 127. There were many others but these were the closest to DirecTV's core slot. There is no reason why they could not do a single superdish to incorporate some of these slots and 101.
Further investigation shows that HBO, WB, and HDNet currently use PanAmSat sats to broadcast their HD channels.
http://www.panamsat.com/services/hdtv.asp
DBS you are correct however those slots would require a second Dish, all Dish's slots can be hit with one dish. :D
Untill next year, when you'll need the SuperDuperDish! :lol:
(Sorry Scott I couldn't resist ;) )
Dish doesn't want to do a freeview of HDnet movies or ESPNHD they might loose to many customer due to lack of content. I can watch them on Directv and I think they might dissapoint more customer than they would gain.
Jacob S
08-12-03, 03:12 PM
It seems to me like Dish is looking at all their options when they are changing their minds or not wanting to announce things until the last minute. What is the advantage of using 121 instead of 105 or vice versa to broadcast HD from? I know 121 is closer the core slots than 105 so maybe that would help with the dish size or signal. Perhaps they would rather have the bulk of the people use 110, 119, 121 instead of 105, 110, 119. Wasn't the satellite to be launched next year to be used for broadband internet service? I do recall Charlie saying it would take a few years before it gets up and going.
"What is the advantage of using 121 instead of 105 or vice versa..."
None.
- 11 degrees of separation vs. 14 deg. - both doable on one dish
- 121 is only 2 deg. from 119, 105 is 5 deg. from 110
- Watch for quad lnb dish after superdish
stay tuned...
Jacob S
08-12-03, 10:01 PM
I would also expect a quad multi lnbf dish as well. I also thought Dish had originally planned on using 121 first before 105.
Curtis0620
08-13-03, 06:40 AM
Ahh its not listed on the chart I have here. :)
You learn something new every day! :D
SPACEWAY2 will be launched their next year.
http://www.lyngsat.com/launches/ka.shtml
IF this is the case then someone at Dish needs to be made an example of. Eliminating one person from the payroll who leaks things that shouldn't be leaked would go a long way in solving this problem.
I have to take issue with that statement. I would submit that most if not all technology companies "leak" information well in advance of it becoming reality. And they should - otherwise their customers are likely to assume that feature XYZ which they really want is not important to supplier 1 and will therefore go buy now from supplier 2 who might just be getting it soon.
The real issue to me is the apparent disconnect between people who should have known what Charlie would say and Charlie. The organization looks in disarray and shooting the underlings still leaves the top in disarray.
Mike Richardson
08-14-03, 04:32 PM
While I am fustrated now I know there is a payoff at the end of the rainbow. :D
Yeah, I bet there will be a big "payoff" from the "Rainbow" if DISH sold 61.5 to them :) :) :)
I'm torn. I said I would be switching to D* if something concrete wasn't announed on this week's chat. I really want ESPN-HD by football season. But, I'm afraid if I spend the money to swith to dish (new HD receiver, dish) then E* will announce thier HD package. What to do, what to do. I'm leaning towards switching. I guess a coin toss would be as could a way fo deciding as any other.
Mike D-CO5
08-14-03, 11:08 PM
I'm torn. I said I would be switching to D* if something concrete wasn't announed on this week's chat. I really want ESPN-HD by football season. But, I'm afraid if I spend the money to swith to dish (new HD receiver, dish) then E* will announce thier HD package. What to do, what to do. I'm leaning towards switching. I guess a coin toss would be as could a way fo deciding as any other.
How much do you have invested in Dish equipment and receivers? I would think you shouldn't make a decision to switch based on an emotional reaction to anger and frustration.
I started subscribing to Directv as well as Dish last November because Charlie said that we were going to loose TNT and he also said he had no reason to add channels like Oxygen , Trio , Pbs kids etc . I got mad and read this board and others with other mad people getting their anger out and I went with Directv with a free install and 2 receivers and free NFL ticket and free showtime for 3 months.
I fully intended in cutting Dish off because I was angry and frustrated. After watching Directv channels that you can't get on Dish, I must conclude that I haven't been missing out on these channels.
Well now I have two subscriptions; one with Dish and one with Directv and I have 3 months left of my 1 year subscription on Directv. All because I made a decision based on anger and frustration on what Dish and Charlie was doing. If I could have back that $34.11 a month spent on Directv for this last year I would have had about $410.00 in my pocket.
My point is don't decide in anger and frustration, think it through . The money you already have invested in Dish you will spend all over again to get Directv 's same hdtv receiver etc. Before you now it Dish will have a bigger Hd package and there you will be . A sub to Directv and you will feel like you made the wrong decision.
Act in Haste and Repent in Leisure..... :eek2:
I may regret it but I made the decision to switch to D* and have already bought the equipment. I had been thinking about doing this since D* announced their HD package.
I had decided that this weeks Charlie Chat would be the breaking point. Since we were only given he same old coming soon song and dance I made the decisin to go with D*. True, I have a good bit invested with D* but I have much more invested with/in my TV and I want to maximize that investment. It looked like E* was the way to go (( already had E*--I had swithced from cable earlier in order to get Dolby Digital). I am a big football fan and ESPN HD availability on D* and not E* played a big part in my decision to swith. In a few months E* may announce a super HD package and I may regret switching bit, now, I feel I made the right decision. I'm trading promises for something concrete. Besides, I can recoup part of the cost by selling my 6000.
I may regret it but I made the decision to switch to D* and have already bought the equipment. I had been thinking about doing this since D* announced their HD package.
I had decided that this weeks Charlie Chat would be the breaking point. Since we were only given he same old coming soon song and dance I made the decisin to go with D*. True, I have a good bit invested with D* but I have much more invested with/in my TV and I want to maximize that investment. It looked like E* was the way to go (( already had E*--I had swithced from cable earlier in order to get Dolby Digital). I am a big football fan and ESPN HD availability on D* and not E* played a big part in my decision to swith. In a few months E* may announce a super HD package and I may regret switching bit, now, I feel I made the right decision. I'm trading promises for something concrete. Besides, I can recoup part of the cost by selling my 6000.
If you are a big football fan then I strongly suggest you sign up for the NFL Sunday ticket. DirecTV has a promotion going that will give you 4 FREE months of Total Choice Platinum if you sign up for NFL-ST. DirecTV will also be doing 1 game a week in HD.
Forgive me if I missed it, but have they given a release date for the 811? I do think it'll be a significant upgrade over the 6000. The 6000 guide sucks. I might even hrow an antenna on the roof to see if I can pull in anything ota. It would be nice if I could sell the 6000 on ebay for a decent price, but who would buy it once the 811 is released? I'm not selling now, I need it for the Pats games on cbs-hd.
Forgive me if I missed it, but have they given a release date for the 811? I do think it'll be a significant upgrade over the 6000. The 6000 guide sucks. I might even hrow an antenna on the roof to see if I can pull in anything ota. It would be nice if I could sell the 6000 on ebay for a decent price, but who would buy it once the 811 is released? I'm not selling now, I need it for the Pats games on cbs-hd.
You might be surprised at what you could get for your 6000.
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