Potential Local Markets for 2003 launches!

[Darkman]

POTENTIAL LOCAL MARKETS for 2003 (additional launches - because of increased Capacity) ... per Retailer Chat, Aug 14, 2003
(listed alphabetically) :

Albany, NY
Baltimore, MD
Bakersfield, CA
Boise, ID
Charleston, WV
Chattanooga, TN
Columbia, SC
Clumbia-Jefferson City, MO
Columbus, OH
Eugene, OR
Evansville, IN
FT, Smith, AR
Greensboro, NC
Green Bay, WI
Hartord, CT
Johnstown-Altoona, PA
Madison, WI
Medford, OR
Memphis, TN
Milwaukee, WI
Richmond, VA
Savannah, Ga
Sherman, TX - ADA, OK
South Bend, IN
Springfield, MO
Traverse City, MI
Wichita, KS
Wilkes Barre, PA
Yakima, WA

[Chris Freeland]

It appears my Chattanooga locals are still a go for 03 :joy:

[Greg Bimson]

But looking at the press release from earlier in the year, it looks as if about 8 markets were removed.

[Darkman]

well..lol - "chit happens" i guess...

Russian Rulette of a sort :)
j/k

[tampa8]

HARTFORD!! :grin:

[dishrich]

I just CAN'T believe that the capital of IL, which is DMA 82 STILL won't have locals (appears Champaign, IL was removed) WHAT A CROOK!

[Stu]

I just CAN'T believe that the capital of IL, which is DMA 82 STILL won't have locals (appears Champaign, IL was removed) WHAT A CROOK!


:D

I hear ya............ were at DMA 41 here in Norfolk, VA and although "D" has been providing locals for over a year now...... "E" locals are no where in sight.........

:nono:

[blingbling]

I'm having trouble understanding this new Dish math.

You launch a new satellite and claim to have "lots" of new capacity while at the same time you make large reductions in the planned LIL offerings??

While we all know that future LIL is "SUBJECT TO CHANGE" Dish has LIL markets previously planned for 3rd quarter which now won't be available until 2004.

Was the previous press release just PR or has the majority of the new capacity been allotted to HD programming?

This company more and more seems to be shooting from the hip and creating one avoidable PR problem after another.

[Terry Foss]

Does anyone know specifically when Wichita is going to be on? I have been waiting for a very long time....... I assume sat 105...

[Mark Holtz]

The list that was announced was "planned local markets" for Dish Network. Dish would still have to reach carriage agreements for the stations before launching a market. If the majority of big stations say no or have unreasonable demands, then Dish moves to another market.

For over a year now, there was a spot beam for just Alaska on E*7 (if I'm correct). However, locals will finally be able to be turned on in that market after reaching agreements.

[rtt2]

Finally Dish is putting up CT!! But if they keep this ridiculous DVR fee, I probably will not be around long enough to subscribe to them. Thankfully DirecTV has CT locals already up so the switchover will be less painful.

[Mike123abc]

Well now E* is going to put up E10 to support locals (http://drs.yahoo.com/S=2766679/K=%22echostar+X%22/v=2/SID=w/l=WS1/R=1/H=0/*-http://biz.yahoo.com/e/030813/dish10-q.html search for "Echostar X")

Wonder how many markets will have to wait for E10 now?

[mjschuyler]

I have an RV Waiver. If they put up Hartford locals would I lose my East & West Nets? My understanding was that the RV waiver was designed so that if you travel you would still have access to networks on the main satellites.

Murray

[TNGTony]

Mike,

E*10 is going up as a backup to E* 7 & 8. It is not going to do anything on its own. Charlie explained this on the conference call. Right now if E*7 or E*8 were to go "boom", all the people with locals on those satellites would just be SOL. And Dish would stand to lose a ton of subscribers. Once E*10 is up there, if there is a failure of E*7 or 8's spot beams, E*10 can be called up to save the day.

See ya
Tony

[johnsmith22]

Poor old Puerto rico, no locals and weak transponders on 110. I suppose the market is just too small to worry about it.

[Chris Freeland]

Mike,

E*10 is going up as a backup to E* 7 & 8. It is not going to do anything on its own. Charlie explained this on the conference call. Right now if E*7 or E*8 were to go "boom", all the people with locals on those satellites would just be SOL. And Dish would stand to lose a ton of subscribers. Once E*10 is up there, if there is a failure of E*7 or 8's spot beams, E*10 can be called up to save the day.

See ya
Tony

I would think once E10 is launched that it would make more since to move E7&8 locals to E10 with new and improved technology and use E7&8 as the back ups if something happened to E10. Also with a small change of design E* may be able to move minor locals off of 61.5/148 to E10 too for a single dish solution for all local subs.

[Mike123abc]

Mike,

E*10 is going up as a backup to E* 7 & 8. It is not going to do anything on its own. Charlie explained this on the conference call. Right now if E*7 or E*8 were to go "boom", all the people with locals on those satellites would just be SOL. And Dish would stand to lose a ton of subscribers. Once E*10 is up there, if there is a failure of E*7 or 8's spot beams, E*10 can be called up to save the day.

See ya
Tony


Remember way back when E8 was going to be a backup for E7... Hard to imagine them having a nice juicy satellite up there and resist using it...

*prediction* E11 will be launched to provide backup for E7,8,10

[Mike123abc]

Also remember E9 was going to be business services...

[shilton]

POTENTIAL LOCAL MARKETS for 2003 (additional launches - because of increased Capacity) ... per Retailer Chat, Aug 14, 2003
(listed alphabetically) :

Albany, NY
Baltimore, MD
Bakersfield, CA
Boise, ID
Charleston, WV
Chattanooga, TN
Columbia, SC
Clumbia-Jefferson City, MO
Columbus, OH
Eugene, OR
Evansville, IN
FT, Smith, AR
Greensboro, NC
Green Bay, WI
Hartord, CT
Johnstown-Altoona, PA
Madison, WI
Medford, OR
Memphis, TN
Milwaukee, WI
Richmond, VA
Savannah, Ga
Sherman, TX - ADA, OK
South Bend, IN
Springfield, MO
Traverse City, MI
Wichita, KS
Wilkes Barre, PA
Yakima, WA
Any ideas which of these will NEED Superdish and which will not???

[Chris Freeland]

Also remember E9 was going to be business services...

Good points Mike. ;)

[Darkman]

shilton,
wasn't really mentioned..
i guess some will require SuperDish, and some not...

[jeffwtux]

I say forget about Columbus Oh, since Ohio has enacted their unfair and corrupt DBS tax. If I lived in Ohio instead of Michigan, I'd be ruthlessly harassing my state house rep.

[jeffwtux]

Wow, Hartford CT!!!
Finally Charlie has answered ScottG's prayer.
Congratulations Scott!!!

[toad57]

I say forget about Columbus Oh, since Ohio has enacted their unfair and corrupt DBS tax. If I lived in Ohio instead of Michigan, I'd be ruthlessly harassing my state house rep.

So just how does withholding Columbus, OH locals from Echostar customers punish those that enacted the tax?

[Bobby94928]

So just how does withholding Columbus, OH locals from Echostar customers punish those that enacted the tax?

If you had enough passionate voters who are also Dish customers, you could vote out your representatives because they caused you a Dish decision to not carry locals.

I know, it's a reach, but think about it...

[Scott Greczkowski]

Wow, Hartford CT!!!
Finally Charlie has answered ScottG's prayer.
Congratulations Scott!!!

No prayers answered yet. Charlie has said Hartford is coming soon for 3 years now. :)

Of course I will be happy when I do get it. :)

[Jacob S]

I would also think they would actually use the newer satellite in place of the old one(s) as they have done before instead of it sitting up there doing nothing.

I am also a bit curious as to which markets would have to use the SuperDish and which ones the Dish500 and the dates they plan on launching these markets. I am thinking most will require the SuperDish.

[jeffwtux]

ScottG: no Hartford hasn't been added yet, nor is there an estimated date, but I don't think it was on the list before, was it?

[jeffwtux]

toad57: it doesn't punish the corrupt politicians. It's just a business decision. The tax is probably going to crush DBS sales in Ohio so why spend the money on locals for a dwindling customer base. The only punishment is to ruthlessly and mercilessly harass and terrorize your state house reps who voted for it, and publicly campaign against them.

[tampa8]

ScottG: no Hartford hasn't been added yet, nor is there an estimated date, but I don't think it was on the list before, was it?

This is the first time I am aware of that Dish themselves have said/shown that Hartford was possible in a confined time frame. Like, Scott, glad when it comes but not holding my breath.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Back in December 1999 on a Charlie Chat, Charlie listed Hartford as one of the cities coming soon.

See http://www.adec.edu/user/skyreport/1999/sky12-07.html for more info. :D

[tampa8]

Back in December 1999 on a Charlie Chat, Charlie listed Hartford as one of the cities coming soon.

See http://www.adec.edu/user/skyreport/1999/sky12-07.html for more info. :D

Yes, that is what I mean. "coming soon" is (as we now know) too vague. This new information has it listed as this year. Even if everything is subject to change, I do not remember a real time frame being talked about before. Still not holding my breath. :grin:

[TonyM]

I noticed Duluth, MN is no longer on the list...I dont think Charlie would have problems getting retransmision agreements from 2 of the networks..
KBJR (NBC) is owned by Granite..
WDIO (ABC) is owned by Hubbard (who owns KSTP & KSTC in Mpls)

Heck, we've only got 5 stations in Duluth so we ain't talking about a lot of space being taken up.

Direct still says Duluth will be on by end of year...If D* has them up and E* doesnt by the end of the year, bye bye Dish.

[Jacob S]

Dish not providing Columbus, Ohio locals will not solve the problem on the taxes and should not make them change their minds. I wonder how many subs did cancel Dish because of this extra tax. Probably not too many but I am sure it does not help.

[jfulenchek]

I wonder when Dish will update its program (on their websites) to tell me which station I am eligable for. I in the new Sherman, Tx local area. I think we just have CBS and NBC. I wonder if we will be allowed to get Dallas ABC and Fox?

[TNGTony]

This is an interesting little twist in the SHVIA...
Say you live in the Sherman market where you get a grade B signal from the Dallas locals. In order to legally get the Dallas locals in the Sherman DMA, you have to get a waiver from the stations you get a grade B signal from. The fact that the two are one and the same makes no difference!

So it boils down to this, the Dallas stations have to agree to allow you to get ANY distant signal of the same affiliate. They have to waive their right to claim you as a viewer in order for you to get their signal via satellite. In doing so, they are telling their advertisers that there are that many LESS eyeballs watching their programming EVEN THOUGH they granted you the waiver just so you COULD get their channels!

Isn't that a scream?

The flip side is, that once they provide the waiver, they cannot force you to ONLY get the Dallas affiliate. They have waived that right and you can get NYC or LA or Denver!

This is exactly why Tyler, Texas doesn't get the Dallas CBS affiliate as part of their package and ONLY the people in the Jackson, MS DMA that are unserved by ANY fox affiliate (grade B signal) have tha Atlanta Fox affiliate provided.

See ya
Tony

See ya
Tony

[newsub]

This is an interesting little twist in the SHVIA...
Say you live in the Sherman market where you get a grade B signal from the Dallas locals. In order to legally get the Dallas locals in the Sherman DMA, you have to get a waiver from the stations you get a grade B signal from. The fact that the two are one and the same makes no difference!

So it boils down to this, the Dallas stations have to agree to allow you to get ANY distant signal of the same affiliate. They have to waive their right to claim you as a viewer in order for you to get their signal via satellite. In doing so, they are telling their advertisers that there are that many LESS eyeballs watching their programming EVEN THOUGH they granted you the waiver just so you COULD get their channels!

Isn't that a scream?

The flip side is, that once they provide the waiver, they cannot force you to ONLY get the Dallas affiliate. They have waived that right and you can get NYC or LA or Denver!

This is exactly why Tyler, Texas doesn't get the Dallas CBS affiliate as part of their package and ONLY the people in the Jackson, MS DMA that are unserved by ANY fox affiliate (grade B signal) have tha Atlanta Fox affiliate provided.

See ya
Tony

See ya
Tony

I have the same problem here. The wheeling/steubenville market only has cbs and nbc stations. I cannot get pittsburgh cbs,nbc,fox,upn,wb or pbs stations ota. I want to get the pittsburgh stations via satellite. Am I stuck with cable if I want these stations?

[Jacob S]

It would probably be a while until that DMA gets added. They cancelled the meeting in Charleston, WV on Thursday that was supposed to deal with HD and locals for WV.

[newsub]

It would probably be a while until that DMA gets added. They cancelled the meeting in Charleston, WV on Thursday that was supposed to deal with HD and locals for WV.

but even when the dma is added i would only get cbs and nbc but no abc,fox,wb,upn or pbs. I want all my local channels not just cbs and nbc.

[Jacob S]

I think they should let you get the distant networks of those network stations that you cannot get as a filler to complete the package.

[newsub]

I think they should let you get the distant networks of those network stations that you cannot get as a filler to complete the package.

well according to the website i only qualify for pbs,wb and upn not fox or abc even though i don't have a local fox or abc station. Wonder why.

[TNGTony]

newsub,

Because you are in the predicted grade B signal area for SOME Fox or ABC station.

Again, the law that allows satellite distributors to sell distant network stations and at the same time allows the satellite companies to sell local channels to their designated marketing areas is quite strange. In order for you to be able to get a "local" channel, you have to live inside the designated marketing area of that station (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/Maps ...I'll get to making a "real" page soon. :))

In order to qualify to get a distant network station (a channels that is NOT inside your DMA), you cannot have the ability to receive ANY channel affiliated with that network off the air (...be outside a predicted grade B signal area). Period. It doesn't matter where that station is.

This might surprise you... Here is a list of stations predicted to serve you (zip 26062) with a grade B or better signal. (Grade B is using a cut antenna on a 20' pole IN THE MIDDLE of the street in your area, half the people are able to get a picture half the time)

CH CALLSIGN City ST SC Status Distance
(Miles) Bearing
(Degrees) F(50,50)
FS
(dBu) Grade Flags

2 KDKA-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 29.394 79.0 71.377 Grade A

4 WTAE-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 41.332 102.6 62.289 Grade B

7 WTRF-TV WHEELING WV TV LIC 26.199 201.8 81.941 City Grade

9 WTOV-TV STEUBENVILLE OH TV LIC 5.650 209.1 107.778 City Grade

11 WPXI PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 29.817 83.2 79.253 City Grade

13 WQED PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 31.849 85.8 74.355 Grade A

16 WQEX PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 31.849 85.8 70.551 Grade B

21 WFMJ-TV YOUNGSTOWN OH TV LIC 46.148 355.3 66.995 Grade B

22 WCWB PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 44.663 87.4 68.413 Grade B

25 W25CI STEUBENVILLE OH TX LIC 3.451 198.8 69.429 Grade B

27 WKBN-TV YOUNGSTOWN OH TV LIC 44.678 354.9 67.336 Grade B

40 WPCB-TV GREENSBURG PA TV LIC 41.455 91.8 66.228 Grade B

44 WOUC-TV CAMBRIDGE OH TV LIC 43.994 239.9 64.480 Grade B

45 WNEO ALLIANCE OH TV LIC 38.489 332.3 69.199 Grade B

53 WPGH-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 30.144 79.0 81.650 City Grade

See ya
Tony

[newsub]

newsub,

Because you are in the predicted grade B signal area for SOME Fox or ABC station.

Again, the law that allows satellite distributors to sell distant network stations and at the same time allows the satellite companies to sell local channels to their designated marketing areas is quite strange. In order for you to be able to get a "local" channel, you have to live inside the designated marketing area of that station (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/Maps ...I'll get to making a "real" page soon. :))

In order to qualify to get a distant network station (a channels that is NOT inside your DMA), you cannot have the ability to receive ANY channel affiliated with that network off the air (...be outside a predicted grade B signal area). Period. It doesn't matter where that station is.

This might surprise you... Here is a list of stations predicted to serve you (zip 26062) with a grade B or better signal. (Grade B is using a cut antenna on a 20' pole IN THE MIDDLE of the street in your area, half the people are able to get a picture half the time)

CH CALLSIGN City ST SC Status Distance
(Miles) Bearing
(Degrees) F(50,50)
FS
(dBu) Grade Flags

2 KDKA-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 29.394 79.0 71.377 Grade A

4 WTAE-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 41.332 102.6 62.289 Grade B

7 WTRF-TV WHEELING WV TV LIC 26.199 201.8 81.941 City Grade

9 WTOV-TV STEUBENVILLE OH TV LIC 5.650 209.1 107.778 City Grade

11 WPXI PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 29.817 83.2 79.253 City Grade

13 WQED PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 31.849 85.8 74.355 Grade A

16 WQEX PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 31.849 85.8 70.551 Grade B

21 WFMJ-TV YOUNGSTOWN OH TV LIC 46.148 355.3 66.995 Grade B

22 WCWB PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 44.663 87.4 68.413 Grade B

25 W25CI STEUBENVILLE OH TX LIC 3.451 198.8 69.429 Grade B

27 WKBN-TV YOUNGSTOWN OH TV LIC 44.678 354.9 67.336 Grade B

40 WPCB-TV GREENSBURG PA TV LIC 41.455 91.8 66.228 Grade B

44 WOUC-TV CAMBRIDGE OH TV LIC 43.994 239.9 64.480 Grade B

45 WNEO ALLIANCE OH TV LIC 38.489 332.3 69.199 Grade B

53 WPGH-TV PITTSBURGH PA TV LIC 30.144 79.0 81.650 City Grade

See ya
Tony

I know I cannot pickup most of those stations cause I tried when I had an antenna on my roof before I replaced my roof. I was lucky to get channels 7 and 9. See I live in a valley and my reception for ota just totally blows (that's why everyone down in this area has cable for tv). Now if these stations want to come down here and experience the signal for themselves for me to get my waivers they are more than welcome to caravan to my house so I can get my waivers.

[Jacob S]

There is supposed to be some type of check that can be done where the station or satellite company I forget who has to pay for the signal check to see if you can get the stations in if it checks that you cant get it in but if it checks that you can get a signal then you must pay for the test. If it does show that you cannot pull these signals in with a test then you will be granted distant network signals.

[newsub]

There is supposed to be some type of check that can be done where the station or satellite company I forget who has to pay for the signal check to see if you can get the stations in if it checks that you cant get it in but if it checks that you can get a signal then you must pay for the test. If it does show that you cannot pull these signals in with a test then you will be granted distant network signals.

well I know I can get the local nbc station with rabbit ears and get a bad signal with rabbit ears on the local cbs station. I know at work(which is much higher up than I am) they can barely pick up wpxi and wpgh out of pittsburgh with rabbit ears and can't get kdka,upn 19,wb 22, or wtae abc with their rabbit ears.

[Bobby94928]

well I know I can get the local nbc station with rabbit ears and get a bad signal with rabbit ears on the local cbs station. I know at work(which is much higher up than I am) they can barely pick up wpxi and wpgh out of pittsburgh with rabbit ears and can't get kdka,upn 19,wb 22, or wtae abc with their rabbit ears.

They are not going to test with rabbit ears. They will be looking for a signal with a reasonable outdoor antenna.

[TNGTony]

Remember that the definition of a Grade B signal is that HALF the people can get a signal (not a good or usable signal...a signal) HALF the time using an antenna cut for the channel on a 20 foot pole IN THE MIDDLE of the street in your neighborhood. Ain't that nice?

See ya
Tony

[newsub]

Remember that the definition of a Grade B signal is that HALF the people can get a signal (not a good or usable signal...a signal) HALF the time using an antenna cut for the channel on a 20 foot pole IN THE MIDDLE of the street in your neighborhood. Ain't that nice?

See ya
Tony

my question is who the hell thinks someone is actually gonna put a flag pole on their house to watch tv? Get real. Someone in congress needs to wake up and realize that people don't use 20' flag poles to get telelvision with an antenna.

[Chris Freeland]

my question is who the hell thinks someone is actually gonna put a flag pole on their house to watch tv? Get real. Someone in congress needs to wake up and realize that people don't use 20' flag poles to get telelvision with an antenna.

No, mine is 30' I think :D .

[TNGTony]

fv3,

The FCC has ruled that an HOA CANNOT prohibit the use of outdoor antennas. They can restrict the height of the mast to I think 10 feet above the highest point on the roof of your house. But if you own the property, they cannot prohibit you from putting up an OTA anntenna. It's part of the same rules that allow satellite dishes regarless of HOA rules. Take a look at http://ekb.dbstalk.com and look under the HOA thingy to get to the FCC page.

See ya
Tony

[Jacob S]

Then they should only test with a 10 ft pole on your property if thats the limit one can put on you. I think if testing is done they do it at your house with an outdoor antenna and use some type of meters or something for particular signals and the hardware that they need to achieve this can be pricey.

[TNGTony]

I just checked on the FCC fact sheet.

"An antenna that is designed to receive local television broadcast signals. Masts higher than 12 feet above the roofline may be subject to local permitting requirements."

So since most rooflines on single story houses are about 10 feet and on a two story house, 20 feet, you're looking at allowable 20 and 30 foot high antennas.

See ya
Tony

[Jacob S]

This reminds me of when I used to be asked by the Dish CSR's if the customer had a one story or two story house.