View Full Version : Is there worse customer service than this?
Maybe at the Department of Motor Vehicles, but I've never experienced customer service this bad anywhere.
My 721 starts to lose it's mind. Frequent "lockups" or "freezes" to a gray or black screen with a small "x" in the center accompanied by self-initiated "reboots" as if the plug had been pulled. Missing timers or double firing timers (one for 60 seconds and the second for the duration of the program). Lazy responding to remote or not at all. Yea, checked the batteries and tried three different remotes (that all run my 501 fine).
I call customer service and am sent to "advanced tech support". They decide to replace my receiver. I have the $1.99 warranty so, so far so good. I'm running a DishPro Quad on the recommendation of the retailer that sold me the 721. Less cable connections than a twin and a 34 switch so that made sense to me at the time. I am aware (from reading this forum) that replacement 721s are shipped with the original BASE software and require a software update when installed. I am also aware that the original BASE 721 software WILL NOT update on a DishPro Quad. This anomaly has existed for a while and apparently Dish is slow or not interested at all in remedying the situation.
I bring this to the attention of the Advanced Tech Rep and he checks with his supervisor. The initial recommendation is for me to take the 721 to a local retailer when it arrives and have them update the software. Aside from the (considerable) inconvenience to me, I resent imposing on a local retailer to do something for me for free that I am paying Dish to do. Nevertheless Dish happily volunteers any local retailer without asking them. I refuse and press for another solution. The supervisor tells the ATR that they will have the NEW software pre-loaded into the 721 before it is shipped. I am skeptical and based on past experiences with Dish customer service have a sound basis to be so. I ask twice more, "are you sure this pre-install will happen" and am answered "absolutely, positively, guaranteed". I hang up the phone fully expecting the NEW software NOT to be pre-loaded and I am NOT disappointed.
The replacement 721 arrives and the new software is NOT pre-loaded (as I had feared) and I am stuck. I call customer service and am sent to Advanced Tech Support. I ask for a supervisor and tell him what's going on. He, as before, tells me to take the 721 to a local retailer. I refuse and tell him to send me a DishPro Twin LNBF(at no charge) so I can get this 721 up and running. He says he can't. I ask to go up the ladder. I'm connected with a supervisor in the RA department named T_d. He intends to send me another replacement 721 and assures me the new software will be preloaded. I relay to him my lack of confidence in his ability to make that actually happen and am not willing to wait a few more days. He sends me to the " Executive Offices" and I speak to Fer___d_. After telling him the whole story from the beginning he recommends I take the receiver to a local retailer. I refuse. I propose that Dish send me a DishPro Twin and a DishPro 34 Switch and I will send them my Dishpro Quad. That way, I can run my 721 AND my 501 and IF I need another 721 replacement I can update the software in the exchange receiver myself at my location. Since Dish sold me a DishPro Quad and it won't update the software in a replacement receiver I felt this was a fair request. This way I could help myself and not have to reply on Dish to pre-load anything (which they don't seem to be able or interested in doing anyway).
He needs to confer with his "team" and will call me back with a solution. He calls back promptly and says he has arranged to send me a Twin LNBF and I should keep it. I give in and accept his offer becoming sick and tired of this soap opera. Two day later a used, filthy, and well worn Legacy Twin LNBF arrives in an unsealed box. When I open the box and go to install the LNBF I realize that one of the "F" connectors is crushed. I call Fer___d_ and tell him what's going on. He needs to go to dinner and will call me back after conferring with his "team".
I have had enough. I walk up the road and tell my story to a neighbor who I don't even know but I am desperate and he has a DishPro Twin. I ask if he would allow me to put my Quad on his dish and lend me his Twin for a few hours. I promise there will be no ill effects and that I will do all the work. He graciously agrees. I climb up a 12 foot ladder onto his roof and exchange my Quad for his Twin. I go home, install his Twin and update the software in the replacement 721. I call customer service and have the replacement 721 activated and my old 721 deactivated. So far, life is better. Yes, I paid Dish for a warranty and I've ended up doing their job for them but it really is the lesser of the evils.
Ultimately L_ly calls me explaining that Fer___d_ asked her to as he was dealing with another customer. She explained that he had ordered another Twin LNBF sent to me (that I should keep) and to return the damaged one to Dish. Ironically, even though I was supposed to keep the first Twin (that arrived damaged) there was a pre-paid shipping label in the box. I explained to L_ly what I had done and that there was no longer a need for the Twin LNBF. I further explained that if this 721 had problems that I would RA it and then just cancel my account. She offered me one month of free Top 150. Although I felt it was way too little way too late I accepted looking forward to not having to deal with Dish for at least a little while. Then, about twenty minutes later, Fer___d_ calls me to follow up with me (nice, I thought) and I told him I had spoken to L_ly and what had transpired. He remarked that "he wouldn't have given me any free programming as Dish had already gone above and beyond in trying to resolve this problem". He further went on to say that "if I had any problems in the future don't expect any consideration from Dish other than whatever tech support would do. That I had exhausted any goodwill from Dish on my account". I asked him if he was aware that I had been a Dish customer for over six years and had lived through numerous previous Dish faux pas such as the "black screen of death" for many months at a time. That I had paid my monthly bill promptly EVERY single month and had never been late. He said he was aware of that but his decision would stand. I replied that "I don't respond well to threats" especially from businesses when I am a customer.
So here we are, I'm waiting for Fer___d_'s boss to get in to work so I can discuss this with him or her. After that I may cancel my account with Dish and have a brand new replacement (not refurb) 721 and a perfectly working 501 and a DishPro Quad LNBF all in the box, complete and as new for sale. Any takers?
Can cable really be any worse than this?
Only if you were dealing with Sprint. Then they'd never call you back.
gpflepsen
08-15-03, 11:43 AM
I would have had E* ship the receiver to a dealer with instructions to call me after it's updated and could be picked up.
Or I would have e-bay'd for the needed LNBF.
rowdymon
08-15-03, 11:59 AM
Get D*; you don't need that kind of hassle. It's not your fault the product doesn't work, and what's all this about 'exhausting goodwill'. Echostar's business is ALL ABOUT GOODWILL; why else would people get E* over D* or cable or any other alternative. If I ever had an experience like yours with E*, I'd drop it in a flash and go with a company that doesn't take me so for granted.
Well the ultimate boss for DISH is Email ceo@echostar.com
Why in the world didn't you just ask your original retailer to help you?
I'm sure he would have gladly done the exchange out of his own inventory if he had one in stock or at least have had the replacement shipped to him so he could pre-download it for you.
Why in the world didn't you just ask your original retailer to help you?
I'm sure he would have gladly done the exchange out of his own inventory if he had one in stock or at least have had the replacement shipped to him so he could pre-download it for you.
Duh, why didn't I think of that? Maybe because the Dish $1.99/month extended warranty is only good through Dish itself and not the retailer?
I realize that there are many things I could have done BUT I'm paying for this warranty and while there are times that I feel Dish couldn't care less about it's customers I'd at least like the illusion that Dish cares when I'm paying for the warranty and the advance exchange shipping.
Don't lose sight of this SIMPLE FACT ... had the replacement 721 arrived with the L112 software pre-loaded as WAS PROMISED BY DISH then it would have been smooth sailing from there on. Why do we (or the retailers) have to do the work that Dish gets paid to do? And why do so many of us continue to just bend over and say ... "please Charlie, may I have another?"
I have had enough. I walk up the road and tell my story to a neighbor who I don't even know but I am desperate and he has a DishPro Twin. I ask if he would allow me to put my Quad on his dish and lend me his Twin for a few hours. I promise there will be no ill effects and that I will do all the work. He graciously agrees. I climb up a 12 foot ladder onto his roof and exchange my Quad for his Twin. I go home, install his Twin and update the software in the replacement 721. I call customer service and have the replacement 721 activated and my old 721 deactivated. So far, life is better. Yes, I paid Dish for a warranty and I've ended up doing their job for them but it really is the lesser of the evils.
Why all of the LNBF jockeying? Could you not have just taken your 721 to the neighbor's house and temporarily hooked it up to his dish long enough to get the software update? :confused:
Don't lose sight of this SIMPLE FACT ... had the replacement 721 arrived with the L112 software pre-loaded as WAS PROMISED BY DISH then it would have been smooth sailing from there on. Taking the word of a CSR or TSA in a call center as a "promise" from any big company is usually folly.
If you were my original customer I would have gladly helped you out as would any full service retailer. We're motivated to take care of our customers because we want them to come back & send their friends & relatives.
Most of the mitching & boaning around here is from people who got their system by direct mail, on-line, or at a mass merchandiser. They really seem surprised & offended that they don't get the same level of customer service they would from a local professional specialist.
:soapbox:
dbronstein
08-16-03, 09:51 PM
Most of the mitching & boaning around here is from people who got their system by direct mail, on-line, or at a mass merchandiser. They really seem surprised & offended that they don't get the same level of customer service they would from a local professional specialist.
:soapbox:
Not all local retailers/installers are the gods you make them out to be. Note that I do not blame the installer himself for any of the following, I blame his boss for not having a clue.
I originally bought my system from a local retailer. He told me I had to call someone else to arrange the installation because they don't do it. So I called and scheduled it, and he asked how many receivers I was installing and I very clearly told him two.
The day came for the installation, and the installer had to cancel it because he got hung up on a job an hour away. That's brilliant scheduling - assign an installer back-to-back jobs an hour apart. So he came first thing the next morning. I showed him where I wanted the two receivers hooked up. The first thing he said was "You have 2 receivers? They told me you only had 1." Unbelievable.
On the flipside, when I called Dish directly to get my free second dish, the installer showed up when he was supposed, knew exactly what he was supposed to do, and did it without any hassles.
I will say that when I was buying my 721, I found a local retailer who sold me one for $499, which was at least $20 cheaper than anyone else had it.
My point is simply that like any other group of people, all local retailers are not created equal, and just because you go to one does not mean you will have a better experience than going through Dish directly or an on-line merchant or so on.
Dennis
My post was intended to bring to the attention of this group a specific service experience I had with Dish (not a Dish retailer)that was less than impressive.
I kept it to the point and accurate in the hope that my experience would be informative to other Dish customers (and perhaps Dish employees) that may or may not monitor this and other DBS boards and forums. I hoped that by bringing my nightmare out in to the light that others might not have to experience what I did.
There is no reason for any retailer to pat him (or her) self on the back in this thread and no reason for a customer to expound on either good or bad experiences with retailers. Any one is free to start their own thread to discuss those (or any other) matters that may interest we DBS junkies.
My experience was specific and related to money that I paid Dish (NOT a Dish retailer) for an extended warranty (a warranty that is NOT administrated by ANY local retailer but by DISH itself), the service Dish promised to provide for the money I paid, and the failure of Dish (not a retailer) to provide that service in this specific instance. That's all, nothing more and nothing less.
If my posting this experience results in even one Dish customer never having the problems I did then it was worth the time it took me to post it and I thank DBSTalk.com for giving me a place to do that.
When all is said and done ... all I want to do is watch TV and I'll pay my bill every month on time.
DCXFORDGM
08-17-03, 08:31 AM
SteveS
Steve why didn't you just take it to a local dish shop to have updated instead of putting
alot of people threw this? You will most likely considered a expense to keep, I myself would
have not offered you anything for free. Remember steves, getting all these people involved
cost money and sounds like a waste of time considering you should of just bit the bullet and
stopped being lazy and went to local provider. I don't know how old you are put as you age
you realize that yelling/kicking doesn't go far and you need to treat people like how you
want to be treated, sounds like you a chip on your shoulders. At my own bussiness, if you
got my staff and managers involved in this , I would say this to you and consider you a
loss.<unfortunaly we are unable to provide customer service to you and suggest you do
bussiness elsewhere in a nice way>. WISE UP. WHO ELSE AGREES? Most likely also
those csr's and managers properly took out there anger on other customers because of
your nonsense.
DCXFORDGM
Bowtieman
08-17-03, 09:07 AM
My post was intended to bring to the attention of this group a specific service experience I had with Dish (not a Dish retailer)that was less than impressive.
I kept it to the point and accurate in the hope that my experience would be informative to other Dish customers (and perhaps Dish employees) that may or may not monitor this and other DBS boards and forums. I hoped that by bringing my nightmare out in to the light that others might not have to experience what I did.
There is no reason for any retailer to pat him (or her) self on the back in this thread and no reason for a customer to expound on either good or bad experiences with retailers. Any one is free to start their own thread to discuss those (or any other) matters that may interest we DBS junkies.
My experience was specific and related to money that I paid Dish (NOT a Dish retailer) for an extended warranty (a warranty that is NOT administrated by ANY local retailer but by DISH itself), the service Dish promised to provide for the money I paid, and the failure of Dish (not a retailer) to provide that service in this specific instance. That's all, nothing more and nothing less.
If my posting this experience results in even one Dish customer never having the problems I did then it was worth the time it took me to post it and I thank DBSTalk.com for giving me a place to do that.
When all is said and done ... all I want to do is watch TV and I'll pay my bill every month on time.
Give it up as a lost cause Steve. I understand your frustration and admire you for patience in the whole matter. Far more than what I could have shown. If a business can not give good service,at all times, then they are going to have a very hard time being successful. In this case all they had to do is follow up and do what they said they would do and their would not have been a problem. When you find that company or person within a company you want to write them a letter of recommendation for simply doing their job. As it is so hard these days to find someone willing to do it.
rowdymon
08-17-03, 09:29 AM
SteveS
Steve why didn't you just take it to a local dish shop to have updated instead of putting
alot of people threw this? You will most likely considered a expense to keep, I myself would
have not offered you anything for free. Remember steves, getting all these people involved
cost money and sounds like a waste of time considering you should of just bit the bullet and
stopped being lazy and went to local provider. I don't know how old you are put as you age
you realize that yelling/kicking doesn't go far and you need to treat people like how you
want to be treated, sounds like you a chip on your shoulders. At my own bussiness, if you
got my staff and managers involved in this , I would say this to you and consider you a
loss.<unfortunaly we are unable to provide customer service to you and suggest you do
bussiness elsewhere in a nice way>. WISE UP. WHO ELSE AGREES? Most likely also
those csr's and managers properly took out there anger on other customers because of
your nonsense.
DCXFORDGM
I hope you're kidding; if anyone should act like adults, it should be the Dish management. They send him the wrong item and then tell him it's his fault? They are not supposed to antagonize customers; that's just bad business.
SteveS
Steve why didn't you just take it to a local dish shop to have updated instead of putting
alot of people threw this? You will most likely considered a expense to keep, I myself would
have not offered you anything for free. Remember steves, getting all these people involved
cost money and sounds like a waste of time considering you should of just bit the bullet and
stopped being lazy and went to local provider. I don't know how old you are put as you age
you realize that yelling/kicking doesn't go far and you need to treat people like how you
want to be treated, sounds like you a chip on your shoulders. At my own bussiness, if you
got my staff and managers involved in this , I would say this to you and consider you a
loss.<unfortunaly we are unable to provide customer service to you and suggest you do
bussiness elsewhere in a nice way>. WISE UP. WHO ELSE AGREES? Most likely also
those csr's and managers properly took out there anger on other customers because of
your nonsense.
DCXFORDGM
Over 470 reads of my post and only one troll. Opinions are like as#hole$ ... everybody has one.
The moral of my story is that the replacement 721 seems to be working properly and if the need arises to use my Dish warranty again I don't expect to have the same problems I had this time. I readily accept that my experience was the exception rather than the norm and I know that Dish efficiently executes RAs and customer support promptly and correctly thousands of times a day.
SteveS
Steve why didn't you just take it to a local dish shop to have updated instead of putting
alot of people threw this? You will most likely considered a expense to keep, I myself would
have not offered you anything for free. Remember steves, getting all these people involved
cost money and sounds like a waste of time considering you should of just bit the bullet and
stopped being lazy and went to local provider. I don't know how old you are put as you age
you realize that yelling/kicking doesn't go far and you need to treat people like how you
want to be treated, sounds like you a chip on your shoulders. At my own bussiness, if you
got my staff and managers involved in this , I would say this to you and consider you a
loss.<unfortunaly we are unable to provide customer service to you and suggest you do
bussiness elsewhere in a nice way>. WISE UP. WHO ELSE AGREES? Most likely also
those csr's and managers properly took out there anger on other customers because of
your nonsense.DCXFORDGMDCXFORDGM: what, are you completely NUTS???
How can ANYONE be so stupid and clueless as to write what you wrote?
What do you think $1.99/m X 4 million subs = $8 million/m should get you? Dish is receiving $100 million per year in warranty revenues to provide warranty service to an estimated 4 million subs who pay $1.99 a month, most of whom never need it.. Steve's unbelieveably unsatisfactory experience is one of the worst examples of BAD to WORST customer service that I have ever heard of.
And you have the ignorant audacity to criticize Steve for insistently pursuing a reasonable, satisfactory solution?
DCXFORDGM, you really are NUTS!
...and one more thing, DCXFORDGM, it's 'through', not "threw".
Lern two spel. :rolleyes:
DCXFORDGM
08-17-03, 06:50 PM
SteveS
Sounds like all of sudden your not bashing dish anymore and if you say your not, your full
of it and to Nick , I am allowed for my opinion to say and write what I what. I express
my feelings because I took Steves thread as bashing dish and it is bashing. This will most
likely cause the thread to close even if it is free speech and a great thread. Think of this
way<nick and steves> have you even been in a line up when the person at the frt is
not getting there way and start acting like a child, this is my perception of steves thread.
oh nick and by the way, I can spell in eglishn/hebrew, there are other people in the world
who have mastered spelling but do screw up sometimes.
DCXFORDGM
scooper
08-17-03, 07:06 PM
DCXFORDGM - maybe you can spell (but I don't see evidence of that) , but you SURE AS Hell have no clue about punctuation and words that sound alike but are spelled different and mean different things.
SteveS
Sounds like all of sudden your not bashing dish anymore and if you say your not, your full
of it and to Nick , I am allowed for my opinion to say and write what I what. I express
my feelings because I took Steves thread as bashing dish and it is bashing. This will most
likely cause the thread to close even if it is free speech and a great thread. Think of this
way<nick and steves> have you even been in a line up when the person at the frt is
not getting there way and start acting like a child, this is my perception of steves thread.
oh nick and by the way, I can spell in eglishn/hebrew, there are other people in the world
who have mastered spelling but do screw up sometimes.
DCXFORDGM
DCXFORDGM, re-read my original post. No Dish bashin' just accurate facts. If you can't handle the truth then put down the keyboard and back away ... geez, some people just open their mouthes to change feet.
SteveS
we be "spellin' and grammerin'" here
FYI....
I lost my Dallas distant nets (grandfathered in before they weren't offered to new customers) because a genius CSR disconnected my card when I called in about a totally unrelated problem. When I asked him to put them back on, he started in with some mumbo jumbo about how he couldn't do it because they're not available anymore, even though I was watching them until he screwed up my account! I was very disappointed with the way the situation was handled and I cancelled my account. I only had the nets to complement my D* service.
Dish and Directv customer service people I hate to say are all a bunch of idiots when it comes to technical questions. Half of them don't know what HDTV is they think its the home and garden network.
DCXFORDGM
08-18-03, 02:01 AM
SteveS
I thought you where bashing dish just to rant. In re-reading your post, it sounds like you are very loyal to dish and it looks like you where speaking to few csr's that just want there
pay check everyweek. As you can see I am a dish fan, I have 3 6000's and 1 301 and also
3 expressvu 6000 and 1 expressvu 3100 which is based on dish and when someone
puts down dish I read to much into it and respond loudly. Anyway it sounds like your
721 is working ok!!
DCXFORDGM
Cyclone
08-18-03, 08:46 AM
The worst part about this is that Dish can't get a 721 upto the proper firmware levels before shipping it out.
Jacob S
08-18-03, 09:45 AM
I may want to add that Dish does have another warranty for $4.99 a month that covers the service along with the hardware. I believe the $1.99 warranty only covers replacement of hardware that has gone bad. Under this circumstance it should not have mattered whether you had any warranty whatsoever, this was a problem that was not your fault and Dish should have resolved the issue with their lnbf's not being compatible with a receiver when it comes to software downloads.
Dish should not have given you such a runaround as they have done. You should not have had to take your receiver to a local retailer to get the problem resolved as it was an issue with Dish, not an issue with the retailer.
Some retailers would charge to perform such a task. I am surprised that they did not ask you to take it to RadioShack or some other major chain retailer to have this done. I know that if it was one of my customers I would have taken care of the problem for them without any charge, if it is not one of my customers then I would be more likely to charge.
Sometimes if you want something done right you have to do it yourself as it probably is a lost cause after some point. There is only so much you can do. Its such a shame that the customer has to have such moody people on the phone that work for Dish that act like they are doing a favor for you and should not do anymore 'special favor's whenever they created the problem to begin with and that they should give you something to make up for the problem. Dish needs to get their act together. Their customer service has went way way downhill lately especially with certain special circumstances like this.
Not all local retailers/installers are the gods you make them out to be. Note that I do not blame the installer himself for any of the following, I blame his boss for not having a clue.
I originally bought my system from a local retailer. He told me I had to call someone else to arrange the installation because they don't do it. So I called and scheduled it, and he asked how many receivers I was installing and I very clearly told him two.
The day came for the installation, and the installer had to cancel it because he got hung up on a job an hour away. That's brilliant scheduling - assign an installer back-to-back jobs an hour apart. So he came first thing the next morning. I showed him where I wanted the two receivers hooked up. The first thing he said was "You have 2 receivers? They told me you only had 1." Unbelievable.
On the flipside, when I called Dish directly to get my free second dish, the installer showed up when he was supposed, knew exactly what he was supposed to do, and did it without any hassles.
I will say that when I was buying my 721, I found a local retailer who sold me one for $499, which was at least $20 cheaper than anyone else had it.
My point is simply that like any other group of people, all local retailers are not created equal, and just because you go to one does not mean you will have a better experience than going through Dish directly or an on-line merchant or so on.
DennisWell, you are right on point and that's why I always qualify my description with words like "full-service" local retailer or "experienced professional specialist."
I never said that any retailer your area would necessarily meet these qualifications. A local guy could be a flea-market dealer or etailer working out of his garage.
But if someone makes an effort to find a real pro who installs & services his own customers he'll be happier in the long run. All it takes is asking around for recommendations or looking in the yellow pages or using the website locators & paying a visit.
The retailer I'm talking about will have a nice showroom. He'll be able to demonstrate the product & answer all pertinent questions.
Jacob S
08-18-03, 08:25 PM
It is more likely for a local retailer to give you good service in person, the service that you need.
dbronstein
08-18-03, 10:11 PM
Well, you are right on point and that's why I always qualify my description with words like "full-service" local retailer or "experienced professional specialist."
I never said that any retailer your area would necessarily meet these qualifications. A local guy could be a flea-market dealer or etailer working out of his garage.
But if someone makes an effort to find a real pro who installs & services his own customers he'll be happier in the long run. All it takes is asking around for recommendations or looking in the yellow pages or using the website locators & paying a visit.
The retailer I'm talking about will have a nice showroom. He'll be able to demonstrate the product & answer all pertinent questions.
We're getting way off the topic here, but to follow up on this, the retailer I bought my system from was fine. But he doesn't do installations, he refers customers over to someone else for the installation.
And how do you find an "experienced professional specialist"? There isn't a section in the yellow pages for them. I asked some friends who have Dish if they bought their systesm from an ""experienced professional specialist" and their resposnses were basically "what the heck is an experienced professional specialist?"
Again, my point is simply that there are good local dealers/installers and there are bad ones, and I think it's a bit silly that every time someone posts a problem they had with Dish customer service, a retailer has to jump in and say "you brought this on yourself because you didn't use an experienced professional specialist."
Dennis
We're getting way off the topic here... ... I think it's a bit silly that every time someone posts a problem they had with Dish customer service, a retailer has to jump in and say "you brought this on yourself because you didn't use an experienced professional specialist."
Dennis
... pat themselves on the back too. Never mind that my situation had nothing to do with a Dish Retailer. Never mind that the warranty that I am paying for is administrated by Echostar. Never mind that I shouldn't have had to go to a Dish Retailer (or inconvenience myself in any way) because Echostar dropped the ball (and then booted it 3 or 4 more times) and never mind that certain Dish Retailers seem to need to see their posts on the forums ... no Dish Retailer should have had to do squat for me. I paid Echostar for service that was not rendered. Sure I could have taken the replacement 721 to my original retailer and he probably would have downloaded the software BUT why should I have to?
And again, my replacement 721 seems to be working fine and I'm confident that if the need arises to use my Dish/Echostar Warranty again things will go smoother than this last time.
Why is it so hard for so many to simply follow a thread rather than divert it into another (sometimes self-serving) direction rather than just answer the question of the poster or help that poster with their problem?
Jacob S
08-19-03, 03:02 PM
Some retailers are going to be better at servicing than others, some do not service at all but outsource the service especially if they sell the systems really cheap.
We're getting way off the topic here, but to follow up on this, the retailer I bought my system from was fine. But he doesn't do installations, he refers customers over to someone else for the installation.
And how do you find an "experienced professional specialist"? There isn't a section in the yellow pages for them. I asked some friends who have Dish if they bought their systesm from an ""experienced professional specialist" and their resposnses were basically "what the heck is an experienced professional specialist?"
Again, my point is simply that there are good local dealers/installers and there are bad ones, and I think it's a bit silly that every time someone posts a problem they had with Dish customer service, a retailer has to jump in and say "you brought this on yourself because you didn't use an experienced professional specialist."
Dennis
... pat themselves on the back too. Never mind that my situation had nothing to do with a Dish Retailer. Never mind that the warranty that I am paying for is administrated by Echostar. Never mind that I shouldn't have had to go to a Dish Retailer (or inconvenience myself in any way) because Echostar dropped the ball (and then booted it 3 or 4 more times) and never mind that certain Dish Retailers seem to need to see their posts on the forums ... no Dish Retailer should have had to do squat for me. I paid Echostar for service that was not rendered. Sure I could have taken the replacement 721 to my original retailer and he probably would have downloaded the software BUT why should I have to? Sorry I missed your flames of a few days ago or I would have responded sooner.
:soapbox:
Yeah, I can pat myself on the back because I am a full-service retailer who takes pride in taking care of my customers. If you think that's silly that's your problem.
A dealer who doesn't have his own experienced & professional technicians to install and service his customers is not a full-service retailer.
You have the right to buy any product from any retail establishment. But if you buy complicated electronic & mechanical systems that are likely to require service & support the same way you buy any expendable commodity like a box of detergent or a pair of socks and expect good personal support & service from low paid, marginally trained & often temporary workers in a call center, well, I would have to say that maybe you guys are the silly ones.
The other day I sent out a tech (at no charge) to help a lady determine if her rcvr needed to be replaced & to help her get it done on the extended warranty. (Turns out it was OK, anyway.) After she got her DISH system from me she came back & got a good home theater system and she keeps referring her friends. As a matter of fact, she was originally a referral from another good customer.
That's still how it works at a few Main Street, brick & morter, Mom & Pop specialty businesses. We're getting fewer as people choose to shop at WallyWorld, the big box store at the local mall and online.
So I wonder why everybody is complaining about "poor service" these days. Time magazine even did an article about it a while back. They didn't get it either.
Oh well. Buy what you want where you will and keep complaining. I'm sure that will make things better.
:rant:
dbronstein
08-23-03, 04:06 PM
So Tony, how was I supposed to know that the retailer I bought my system from wasn't an "experienced professional specialist"? He seemed to know what he was talking about. There wasn't anything to indicate there would be problems with the installation. Is there some certificate that you hang on the wall in your store or something? How is the average joe off the street supposed to know when he's dealing with just a mere retailer and not an "experienced professional specialist"?
Also, to tie this in to the original post, do you offer to warranty all of a customer's equipment for $1.99 a month? It seems like that's something you can only buy from Dish.
Dennis
bills976
08-23-03, 05:47 PM
Quite frankly I think it's irrelevant whether or not this particular system was purchased from a local dealer.
It is relevant that Dish made a commitment to service this particular household's satellite system. I don't care who the dealer was - customers who subscribe to this service PAY for Dish to maintain their system -- NOT the dealer. If Dish doesn't live up to their end of the bargain (and when they send a receiver without the proper software they aren't), they are breaking their contract. Yes, some dealers are nice and will help out their customers, but that's not what we're talking about here.
What I find quite ironic is that Dish so rigidly forces customers to follow to the letter the contracts they sign when they become new satellite subscribers -- to the point where they don't give prorated refunds when you cancel a month-to-month plan. It's their right to do so. Yet, when they need to live up to their end of the bargain, they often fail to.
It is relevant that Dish made a commitment to service this particular household's satellite system. I don't care who the dealer was - customers who subscribe to this service PAY for Dish to maintain their system -- NOT the dealer. If Dish doesn't live up to their end of the bargain (and when they send a receiver without the proper software they aren't), they are breaking their contract. Yes, some dealers are nice and will help out their customers, but that's not what we're talking about here.
What I find quite ironic is that Dish so rigidly forces customers to follow to the letter the contracts they sign when they become new satellite subscribers -- to the point where they don't give prorated refunds when you cancel a month-to-month plan. It's their right to do so. Yet, when they need to live up to their end of the bargain, they often fail to.
my original post ... thank you for taking the time to read it.
Sure, I could have taken the replacement 721 to a Dish Retailer and had the software update done BUT, that would require quite a drive and a lot of my time. I chose to have Dish stand behind their word and their warranty.
I have since my original post been told by numerous individuals that Dish does indeed ship a replacement 721 with the later (and required by a DishPro Quad) version software installed. I was promised that the software would be pre-installed by an "advanced tech rep" and an "advanced tech rep SUPERVISOR" not by an "entry level CSR" as HTguy proclaimed in his previous post.
HTguy either refuses to actually read my original post, is unable to comprehend my original post, or simply chooses to redirect this thread into a Dish Retailer "pat-himself-on-the-back" self promotion. Sure, there are great and competent retailers out there just as there are lots of incompetent retailers but that has nothing to do with my original post or this thread.
The question here is simple ... does the company exist for the convenience of the customer or does the customer exist for the convenience of the company? I experienced the latter and chose to pursue the former (which I had PAID Dish for).
My intent was to bring this compound failure of the Dish customer service and RA department to the attention of Dish management so it wouldn't happen to the next customer who needed a replacement 721 and was using a DP Quad.
And AGAIN, the replacement 721 seems to be operating properly and if I need to use my "Dish" extended warranty again I appreciate that HTguy will FedEx Next Day Delivery me a replacement 721 with the latest software pre-installed at no charge. Right, HTguy?
So Tony, how was I supposed to know that the retailer I bought my system from wasn't an "experienced professional specialist"? He seemed to know what he was talking about. There wasn't anything to indicate there would be problems with the installation. Is there some certificate that you hang on the wall in your store or something? How is the average joe off the street supposed to know when he's dealing with just a mere retailer and not an "experienced professional specialist"?
Also, to tie this in to the original post, do you offer to warranty all of a customer's equipment for $1.99 a month? It seems like that's something you can only buy from Dish.
DennisI think you mean me altho I'm not Tony.
You simply ask any retailer you contact if they take responsibilty for installation and service their customers after the "sale." If they double-talk you about anybody else (inc. "DISH NW") doing the install and DISH taking care of you from then on you know they aren't a full service retailer.
It is relevant that Dish made a commitment to service this particular household's satellite system. I don't care who the dealer was - customers who subscribe to this service PAY for Dish to maintain their system -- NOT the dealer. The $1.99 extended warranty is not for any kind of service at all. Just the exchange of defective hardware (subject to normal use, etc.)
No, I don't offer extended warranties on the eqmt (altho some retailers do and earn a little extra "on the side" for doing so.) DISH takes care of that for the $1.99mo for those that want it.
What I offer my customers is our time, labor & expertise to make things work properly as long as they got it from me. And that includes free service calls by a tech for eqmt-related issues for the 1st year and at a very reduced rate after that. (Less than half of what DNSC charges.) I use my discretion on that, too, even after a year for my best customers.
All of these things ought to apply with the purchase of any technical system or major appliance.
Like I said early in this thread, in this case I would have been happy to take care of the SW download for the customer at no charge. Yeah, someone at a call center who has no way of making it happen told him his replacement would be pre-loaded with the latest SW and that's why he's PO'd. I get it. But I would have solved the problem.
So back on topic: Is there worse customer service than this? Sure there is. And you are going to experience more and more of it as Gen N enters the entry level retail & service industries and big companies move away from local independent retailers.
(BTW, indy retailers don't get much service & respect any more from the big companies either. And their incentives are shrinking while they are expected to do more to earn them. But that's a whole 'nother thread.)
bills976
08-23-03, 06:56 PM
The $1.99 extended warranty is not for any kind of service at all. Just the exchange of defective hardware (subject to normal use, etc.)
But the hardware they send IS defective! The software shipped with the system cannot be upgraded with a quad lnb... that shuts out quite a few 721 owners. As far as I'm concerned, it is Dish's responsibility to ensure that hardware sent out on the warranty is immediately usable by the owner, only normal installation is required. Paying to replace your perfectly normal and functional LNBF is not a normal install. Really a bug like this is mindboggling...
What I offer my customers is our time, labor & expertise to make things work properly as long as they got it from me. And that includes free service calls by a tech for eqmt-related issues for the 1st year and at a very reduced rate after that. (Less than half of what DNSC charges.) I use my discretion on that, too, even after a year for my best customers.
Good for you. All dealers should follow your example. But that point is moot when talking about the $1.99 warranty. Here we have a case where a 721 is broken, and Dish under contract has to replace it with a usable product. Only the product isn't usable unless it receives a d/l from a twin lnb. In other words, the customer has to circumvent the bug in Dish's software by finding his own retailer which he may or may not have done business with. So what happens if this dealer refuses to help him? Will the customer have to travel 10, 20, or 30 more miles? As far as I'm concerned, this breaches the spirit of the agreement, though I am sure some loophole exists to allow Dish to continue this practice.
Sure, I could have taken the replacement 721 to a Dish Retailer and had the software update done BUT, that would require quite a drive and a lot of my time. I chose to have Dish stand behind their word and their warranty.
I have since my original post been told by numerous individuals that Dish does indeed ship a replacement 721 with the later (and required by a DishPro Quad) version software installed. I was promised that the software would be pre-installed by an "advanced tech rep" and an "advanced tech rep SUPERVISOR" not by an "entry level CSR" as HTguy proclaimed in his previous post.
HTguy either refuses to actually read my original post, is unable to comprehend my original post, or simply chooses to redirect this thread into a Dish Retailer "pat-himself-on-the-back" self promotion. Sure, there are great and competent retailers out there just as there are lots of incompetent retailers but that has nothing to do with my original post or this thread.
The question here is simple ... does the company exist for the convenience of the customer or does the customer exist for the convenience of the company? I experienced the latter and chose to pursue the former (which I had PAID Dish for).
My intent was to bring this compound failure of the Dish customer service and RA department to the attention of Dish management so it wouldn't happen to the next customer who needed a replacement 721 and was using a DP Quad.
And AGAIN, the replacement 721 seems to be operating properly and if I need to use my "Dish" extended warranty again I appreciate that HTguy will FedEx Next Day Delivery me a replacement 721 with the latest software pre-installed at no charge. Right, HTguy?I have never stated what you experienced was acceptable. Merely that my customers get my help when they have a similar problem.
You said in your original post that you had gone thru a retailer so I merely asked why you didn't contact him. You never indicated that it would be a considerable drive and a lot of time. Obviously your retailer isn't exactly in your neighborhood.
You never answered toad57's question about all the roof-climbing & LNBF swapping, either.
My point is simply that if you rely on big company's call centers for personal service you are bound to be disappointed and it's going to get worse. It doesn't matter who you talked to. If you thought they were going to put down the phone, walk into another room and say, "Joe, please send SteveS a replacement 721 and make sure it has the latest software because he has a DP QUAD." and then "Joe" was going to reply, "OK, Frank, I'll get right on it. I'll personally download the SW to make sure and ship it out to SteveS ASAP!" you have a wrong idea about multi-billion dollar corporations with multiple facilities and thousands of disparate employees.
What actually happened is that an order for shipment of a reman 721 was entered into a computer terminal at one of 5 call centers around the country and a shipping clerk in El Paso or Suwanee pulled the next one off the shelf & sent it on it's way. If you had been lucky, which you weren't, you could have gotten one of the most recent remans that had the latest SW but the shipping clerk wouldn't know one from the other.
So you had a bad experience & I'm sorry for you. Get used to it because you're going to have more like it.
And, again, no I wouldn't FedEx you a reman 721 overnight even if you were my customer because I don't exchange eqmt out of the original warranty. But if you had a problem with one you received I would be glad to help you out if you were my customer because that's the kind of pat-myself-on-the-back a**hole I am.
You obviously don't like service orientated dealers like me so go on & keep whining about bad service & see if it gets better.
[...] As a matter of fact, she was originally a referral from another good customer.
That's still how it works at a few Main Street, brick & morter, Mom & Pop specialty businesses. We're getting fewer as people choose to shop at WallyWorld, the big box store at the local mall and online. [...]I've been lurking around this thread for a while, and I have to agree with both of you.
First of all, the original complaint was never with a retailer, but with Dish, who appear to have misbehaved badly in this affair. But the point is well taken that for $1.99/mo, you're probably a bit optimistic to think that they're going to live up to their end of the contract (never mind that they hold you to yours). You could take them to small claims court, of course, if you want to keep things "fair".
I shop at big discount places and online when I can live with the fact that I won't be getting any service. I shop at competent professionals when I know I will indeed need quality service. I have no problem at all in paying the premium, and am glad for the opportunity - glad that level of service product is even available.
But, frankly, that level of quality - in service and every kind of goods - is going the way of the dinosaur, because people prefer a quick bargain to true value, because they can't tell the difference (and you can't really expect them to).
I'm just glad there are still some people who demand quality, and some who will deliver it. I'm also glad I don't have to pay for it when I don't need it.
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