RG-59 with SWiM?

[Cavicchi]

I had the installer back today and he discovered one receiver, an H24, was connected via RG-59 cable and said it was all right to use with SWiM installation. I was surprised and told him there had to be RG-6 in the wall from a previous installation, so he took off the wall plate and found the RG-6 cable and hooked that up to my H24. He said the power inserter connected to back of HR24 downstairs provides enough boost to allow use of RG-59. The other HR24 DVRs are connected via RG-6, so no issue there.

Now I have all receivers hooked up to RG-6, but I am surprised to learn RG-59 is fine with SWiM installation.

Another thing he found was the cable going to DECA module was going through a splitter at the box outside my house (not the SWiM splitter) and said there was no need for that and ran it from SWiM splitter straight to the DECA.

[veryoldschool]

SWiM was designed to be able to use RG59. You don't want to have the DC power run through RG59, either between the PI and the SWiM or if the SWiM is not in the LNB, then between it and the LNB, but RG59 works for the output of the SWiM to the receivers, though it will have slightly more loss than RG6.
The "non SWiM" splitter could work for the DECA [only] drop, but the green label splitters work BETTER for DECA.

[Cavicchi]

SWiM was designed to be able to use RG59. You don't want to have the DC power run through RG59, either between the PI and the SWiM or if the SWiM is not in the LNB, then between it and the LNB, but RG59 works for the output of the SWiM to the receivers, though it will have slightly more loss than RG6.
The "non SWiM" splitter could work for the DECA [only] drop, but the green label splitters work BETTER for DECA.
Since he was able to use the pre-existing RG-6 cable, all is fine with me. The original installer should have been able to do what this guy did today. By the way, the "guy" today said he is a supervisor.

As for the "barrel connector", gone! I told him to do a straight run and he did. The cable for DECA was going through a non-SWiM splitter! This guy took the cable off that splitter and ran it from "green Label" splitter to DECA.

[Cavicchi]

I did look at where the cables come in from SWiM splitter to basement and along the ceiling of basement near where the cables enter, the cables are going to "barrel connectors." I can't be certain where they are all going, but a good guess would be to receivers. Should I call DirecTV and have someone come out to check it?

[ndole]

I did look at where the cables come in from SWiM splitter to basement and along the ceiling of basement near where the cables enter, the cables are going to "barrel connectors." I can't be certain where they are all going, but a good guess would be to receivers. Should I call DirecTV and have someone come out to check it?

Nope. If your system is functional and working fine, you're better off not messing with it. You having a question about your installation (because you think it's wrong because of something you read on the internet) can likely cause someone some trouble.
Obviously if there is some obscene messy cabling, or if something isn't working, then you should call to have it corrected. But don't call just for the heck of it. If you did that after I left your home, it would cost me my entire bonus for the week. Your technician wouldn't appreciate that.

[Cavicchi]

Nope. If your system is functional and working fine, you're better off not messing with it. You having a question about your installation (because you think it's wrong because of something you read on the internet) can likely cause someone some trouble.
Obviously if there is some obscene messy cabling, or if something isn't working, then you should call to have it corrected. But don't call just for the heck of it. If you did that after I left your home, it would cost me my entire bonus for the week. Your technician wouldn't appreciate that.
Well, I don't appreciate the way the installation was done. Why should a technician go from SWiM splitter into basement with a short run less than ten feet and use "barrel connectors" to attach other cables to run to each receiver? Who does work like that? I mean, why not go straight to receivers like my cable company does?

Look, so far I have had an awful experience with the guy who installed my DTV service, and the guy who installed the MRV with Internet. The first one didn't check signal strength or even align my dish, and the second one drilled a hole through my floor that wasn't necessary. The first guy hooked up my TV upstairs to RG-59 instead of RG-6 that was already there! The first guy set my HDTV to standard definition and SDTV to HD. I could go on but what the heck, that is enough!

So, I don't appreciate all the time wasted by me to get this installation corrected on various visits from DTV installers, which just happens to diminish my appreciation or concern for DTV installers.

[veryoldschool]

While I try to not use barrels, they aren't the end of the earth as we know it.
Hasn't your setup been corrected to your satisfaction now?
Why piss & moan? It's done.

[Cavicchi]

While I try to not use barrels, they aren't the end of the earth as we know it.
Hasn't your setup been corrected to your satisfaction now?
Why piss & moan? It's done.
Well, I just got the RG-59 corrected and DECA cable from non-green splitter corrected a few hours ago! Am I totally happy now? No. I don't like seeing cables go to barrel connectors when they should and could be run straight to receivers. Maybe this is not a BIG deal, but I have always been of the avoid extra connections philosophy. Maybe I would get better signal strength without those barrel connectors; maybe it wouldn't take so long before the green bar appears allowing me to watch downloaded movies; maybe there wouldn't be any difference. I don't know, but I do prefer straight runs without barrel connectors as a matter of preference and the way I would do it if it were me doing the installation. Before someone jumps in to say do it yourself, I have a bad back and not going to do it.

[Cavicchi]

"Why piss & moan? It's done."
If you look back, I replied to you with a question and was not pissing and moaning. Someone else, a DTV technician? replied to me and I expressed myself to him.

[veryoldschool]

"Why piss & moan? It's done."
If you look back, I replied to you with a question and was not pissing and moaning. Someone else, a DTV technician? replied to me and I expressed myself to him.
"Fair game" :)

[Cavicchi]

"Fair game" :)
:lol:

Here is the thing, the first guy connected the upstairs TV to RG-59 cable. When the house was built 14 years ago, RG-59 was used throughout the house for cable, thus, I have both RG-59 and RG-6 in the walls now. How do I know the DTV technician connected RG-6 to RG-6 with those barrel connectors when he connected the upstairs TV to RG-59? I don't know.

The supervisor from DTV who came today was very surprised the first guy connected the DECA cable to a non-green label splitter that went to the green label splitter. He fixed it but seemed bewildered why it was done in the first. I guess what I'm trying to say is that first guy was so bad, anything is possible, even connecting RG-6 to RG-59.

Here is another thing, I called DTV last Tuesday because I didn't have TV service, got an error message. They setup an appointment and meanwhile I was able to get picture back. I haven't had any issues during the past week--the other issue happened twice in the first week. So, I called DTV and asked them if I should keep the appointment, and they said, yes. So, even though things were working, I still had a TV upstairs connected to RG-59 and the DECA cable going from a non-green label splitter to a green label splitter.

[Nabisco]

Thats BS!!! He didnt want to work, the 59 may work for a while, but eventually it will fail!!!!! Get that crap out of there!

[veryoldschool]

Thats BS!!! He didnt want to work, the 59 may work for a while, but eventually it will fail!!!!! Get that crap out of there!
This is BS too. All cable will fail at some point.
RG59 SHOULD NOT handle DC voltage/power, but short of this and slightly more loss at the higher frequencies, THEY'RE BOTH THE SAME.
Urban Myths aside.

[texasbrit]

yes, this idea that RG59 will fail after a while is an installer "urban legend". It simply is not true.

[Nabisco]

thats why all the swm apps i come to fix that have a sfss on the ird that has 59, it isnt the wire.... weird that it fires up as soon as i get the 59 out of there, dtv states that you should never use rg59 at any time it doesn't hold what we are sending it down it, so i just assume that the guys that say it works fine in a swm app are the tech that dont care that your system will eventually fail, to lazy to replace the wire that there are getting paid to run good wire, in today's dtv swm and mpeg 4 apps there is no room at all for rg crappy 9! Thats what the training videos, the trainer, my warehouse sup, the wtl's and regional tell me
59 is unacceptable

[veryoldschool]

thats why all the swm apps i come to fix that have a sfss on the ird that has 59, it isnt the wire.... weird that it fires up as soon as i get the 59 out of there, dtv states that you should never use rg59 at any time it doesn't hold what we are sending it down it, so i just assume that the guys that say it works fine in a swm app are the tech that dont care that your system will eventually fail, to lazy to replace the wire that there are getting paid to run good wire, in today's dtv swm and mpeg 4 apps there is no room at all for rg crappy 9! Thats what the training videos, the trainer, my warehouse sup, the wtl's and regional tell me
59 is unacceptable
I guess this all depends on which end of the knowledge [food] chain, you're on.
Should you swap out RG59 for RG6 if you can? sure.
Should you not do an install because the RG59 is run through the walls and would have to open them up to run RG6? no.
DirecTV engineering designed SWiM to use RG59, where needed.
Is RG59 not as good as RG6? yes.
Is RG11 better than RG6? yes.
Saying the RG59 will fail sooner than RG6 is false, just like saying RG6 will fail sooner than RG11.
At the high end of SWiM and over 100' of cable:
RG59 has 11 dB loss
RG6 has 9 dB loss
RG11 has 6 dB loss

The center conductor of RG6 is larger than RG59, so DC power/voltage should not be run over RG59, just like copper clad RG6.

[Cavicchi]

I guess this all depends on which end of the knowledge [food] chain, you're on.
Should you swap out RG59 for RG6 if you can? sure.
Should you not do an install because the RG59 is run through the walls and would have to open them up to run RG6? no.
DirecTV engineering designed SWiM to use RG59, where needed.
Is RG59 not as good as RG6? yes.
Is RG11 better than RG6? yes.
Saying the RG59 will fail sooner than RG6 is false, just like saying RG6 will fail sooner than RG11.
At the high end of SWiM and over 100' of cable:
RG59 has 11 dB loss
RG6 has 9 dB loss
RG11 has 6 dB loss

The center conductor of RG6 is larger than RG59, so DC power/voltage should not be run over RG59, just like copper clad RG6.

Are you saying there are different versions of RG6 with one being copper clad and the other?

[veryoldschool]

Are you saying there are different versions of RG6 with one being copper clad and the other?
Yes. There is solid copper core [good for DC] and copper clad steel [bad for DC].

[Cavicchi]

Yes. There is solid copper core [good for DC] and copper clad steel [bad for DC].

So how am I to know which one I have? The RG6 being used now is a combination of DTV and my cable company.

[veryoldschool]

So how am I to know which one I have? The RG6 being used now is a combination of DTV and my cable company.
For the runs that carry DC, remove the cable and either look for the "silver" [steel] center/end or see if a magnet is attracted.
If the run doesn't carry DC, then you don't care.

[Cavicchi]

For the runs that carry DC, remove the cable and either look for the "silver" [steel] center/end or see if a magnet is attracted.
If the run doesn't carry DC, then you don't care.
Which runs carry DC? Cable hooked up to power inserter behind TV, cable to DECA module, and or?

[veryoldschool]

Which runs carry DC? Cable hooked up to power inserter behind TV, cable to DECA module, and or?
The part that runs out to the dish.

[Cavicchi]

The part that runs out to the dish.
The single cable from ground block to dish or all the cables that go from green label splitter to receivers? And are we talking the center pin being copper or steel? How about the cable going to power inserter?

[veryoldschool]

The single cable from ground block to dish or all the cables that go from green label splitter to receivers? And are we talking the center pin being copper or steel? How about the cable going to power inserter?
The dish is where the power is needed. EVERYTHING from there to where the power comes from [the PI]. There is no "center pin", just the center conductor and look at the cut end to see if you can see steel. If DirecTV installed this, the odds are good that it is solid copper.

[Cavicchi]

The dish is where the power is needed. EVERYTHING from there to where the power comes from [the PI]. There is no "center pin", just the center conductor and look at the cut end to see if you can see steel. If DirecTV installed this, the odds are good that it is solid copper.
I looked at one cable DTV used yesterday and there is a copper-colored pin/conductor sticking out, and around that copper pin/conductor is what looks like white plastic.

I am still not sure what runs you mean. When you say everything, do you mean all the runs from dish to each receiver, or just the run to power inserter?

[veryoldschool]

I looked at one cable DTV used yesterday and there is a copper-colored pin/conductor sticking out, and around that copper pin/conductor is what looks like white plastic.

I am still not sure what runs you mean. When you say everything, do you mean all the runs from dish to each receiver, or just the run to power inserter?
You may be overly obsessing over this.

[Cavicchi]

You may be overly obsessing over this.

No, just trying to understand what you're talking about. Do you mean all the runs from dish to each receiver or just run to power inserter?

I don't know about DC, just AC.

[veryoldschool]

No, just trying to understand what you're talking about. Do you mean all the runs from dish to each receiver or just run to power inserter?

I don't know about DC, just AC.
Guess you're not seeing the bold I've added to your questions either.

I hope your "AC" is Air Conditioning.
The DC power runs from the PI to the LNB. This path is what's you want to have solid copper core RG6. The receivers/DECA don't care, since they're out of the loop.

[Cavicchi]

According to Wikipedia, "Copper-clad steel (CCS), also known as copper-covered steel or the trademarked name Copperweld,[citation needed] is a bi-metallic product, mainly used in the wire industry that combines the high mechanical resistance of steel with the conductivity and resistance to corrosion of copper.
Its main purpose is to be used as a drop wire of telephone cables, and inner conductor of coaxial cables, including thin hookup cables like RG174, and CATV cable."

Since the conductors of both types look like copper, I don't see how I could possibly know if it is solid copper or copper colored over steel by looking at the conductor. I looked at both DTV and cable company RG6 and they both have copper-looking conductors.

[veryoldschool]

According to Wikipedia, "Copper-clad steel (CCS), also known as copper-covered steel or the trademarked name Copperweld,[citation needed] is a bi-metallic product, mainly used in the wire industry that combines the high mechanical resistance of steel with the conductivity and resistance to corrosion of copper.
Its main purpose is to be used as a drop wire of telephone cables, and inner conductor of coaxial cables, including thin hookup cables like RG174, and CATV cable."

Since the conductors of both types look like copper, I don't see how I could possibly know if it is solid copper or copper colored over steel by looking at the conductor. I looked at both DTV and cable company RG6 and they both have copper-looking conductors.
CATV doesn't send DC along the coax.
I can see the silver/steel "inside" on the end of the conductor. If you can't, then use a magnet as I have suggested.

[Cavicchi]

CATV doesn't send DC along the coax.
I can see the silver/steel "inside" on the end of the conductor. If you can't, then use a magnet as I have suggested.
Believe it or not, I don't have a magnet. Since CATV doesn't send DC along the coax, most likely their cable is not solid copper inside. So, what would I do if that is the case?

[Cavicchi]

Okay, I stripped extra cables from cable company and DTV and the cable company is copper clad, not solid copper. So what am I to do? The installer used cable company cables to all receivers--including the one that has power inserter.

[Cavicchi]

BTW, he connected DTV from green splitter with DTV RG6 to barrel connector that connected to RG6 from cable company.

[veryoldschool]

You could/should call and get them to replace this.

[Cavicchi]

You could/should call and get them to replace this.
I just did that! DTV said they put in the work order for it and I should be getting a call back today to setup an appointment. Should he replace all the cables or just the one going to power innserter?

I assume he should also replace the RG6 from cable company that goes from wall to TVs, right?

[Cavicchi]

I just got a call from installer to setup an appointment. I was surprised they asked me what issues I was having. Apparently, they see nothing wrong with using DTV cables to cable company cables, which kind of reminds me of that guy who said they know better than DTV and tried to install MRV with Internet without Internet Kit.

Anyway, I expect the installer to run DTV cables to all receivers and from wall to TV. The sneaky part of what that installer did was connect DTV RG6 from SWiM splitter into basement, about 3 feet, and connect cable company RG6 via a barrel connector, thus, it looked like he used DTV RG6. It probably doesn't matter to them mixing cables like that because they know better than DTV. :nono2:

[sigma1914]

You may be overly obsessing over this.

+1 :lol:

[jpitlick]

I just got a call from installer to setup an appointment. I was surprised they asked me what issues I was having. Apparently, they see nothing wrong with using DTV cables to cable company cables, which kind of reminds me of that guy who said they know better than DTV and tried to install MRV with Internet without Internet Kit.

Anyway, I expect the installer to run DTV cables to all receivers and from wall to TV. The sneaky part of what that installer did was connect DTV RG6 from SWiM splitter into basement, about 3 feet, and connect cable company RG6 via a barrel connector, thus, it looked like he used DTV RG6. It probably doesn't matter to them mixing cables like that because they know better than DTV. :nono2:

RG6 is pretty much RG6. Does it really matter who installed it? My house was wired by the builder with RG6. I wasn't going to have D* destroy my walls to run their own cables. They were happy to connect to the home run.

[Cavicchi]

RG6 is pretty much RG6. Does it really matter who installed it? My house was wired by the builder with RG6. I wasn't going to have D* destroy my walls to run their own cables. They were happy to connect to the home run.
There is a difference between solid copper and copper clad RG6, which is why veryoldschool suggested getting my copper clad cable replaced. It wouldn't matter who installed it if both RG6 types functioned the same, especially with regard for carrying DC. The other thing is, it makes absolutely no sense to connect solid copper DTV RG6 cable to copper clad cable company RG6 via barrel connectors.

There are no walls to tear down for installation of cable, at least not in my two-story house with full basement.

[techovercharge]

+1 :lol:

+2

[techovercharge]

Joe, i hope u have an opinion on this matter

[Cavicchi]

The following is an excerpt from an article that can be read in its entirety via link below. There are other differences stated in the article as well.

"For RG-6 coaxial cable, the main issue for copper is whether the center conductor is solid copper or copper-clad steel. Since an installation of RG6 cable may later need to be moved or switched to another use that requires some power, it's definitely better to use a solid copper center conductor."

http://www.abccables.com/info-rg6-steel-copper.html

DirecTV did not have to tear any walls down to run their cable up to second floor in my house--first installation done a few years ago. I switched back to my cable company and recently went back to DTV. I think DTV originally ran cable from outside to basement then out to side of house and into second floor. There is DTV RG 6 in the wall upstairs and now connected to H24; the H24 was previously connected to RG 59U.

[egnlsn]

I used to use 59 in stacked systems all the time with no issues whatsoever. And they go up to 2150MHz.

SWiM goes up to 1450MHz. Why would there supposedly be a problem using 59 instead of 6 (other than you would not want to use it for D.C.)?

[egnlsn]

R.F. travels on the surface of the center conductor. If the cable is carrying r.f. only,(such as to the outlets in SWiM systems), it doesn't matter which type of cable is used (SC or CC). But, if there's D.C., SC should be used.

[jpitlick]

There is a difference between solid copper and copper clad RG6, which is why veryoldschool suggested getting my copper clad cable replaced. It wouldn't matter who installed it if both RG6 types functioned the same, especially with regard for carrying DC. The other thing is, it makes absolutely no sense to connect solid copper DTV RG6 cable to copper clad cable company RG6 via barrel connectors.

There are no walls to tear down for installation of cable, at least not in my two-story house with full basement.

I realize that there are different types of RG6. My point was that it doesn't matter who installed it. FWIW, I am pretty sure that D* used copper clad steel on the four lines from my dish because solid copper was not the standard at the time of my HD upgrade in 2005. I am also pretty sure that my builder used copper clad steel RG6 when my house was built in 2002. My self installed SWM-8 works just fine with the existing wiring.

[Tech_1438]

Anyway, I expect the installer to run DTV cables to all receivers and from wall to TV. :

Expect to be severely disappointed

[veryoldschool]

I used to use 59 in stacked systems all the time with no issues whatsoever. And they go up to 2150MHz.

SWiM goes up to 1450MHz. Why would there supposedly be a problem using 59 instead of 6 (other than you would not want to use it for D.C.)?
Even with the old SWM5 this is slightly short of the frequencies used.
With the SWiM currently being used 1800+ MHz is the upper limit.

[veryoldschool]

I am pretty sure that D* used copper clad steel on the four lines from my dish because solid copper was not the standard at the time of my HD upgrade in 2005.
I am also pretty sure that my builder used copper clad steel RG6 when my house was built in 2002.
My self installed SWM-8 works just fine with the existing wiring.



Solid copper core was to have been used back then.
makes perfect sense at the time since this works fine for CATV.
If your runs aren't too long & you're using the 29 volt PI, this also makes sense.

[egnlsn]

Even with the old SWM5 this is slightly short of the frequencies used.
With the SWiM currently being used 1800+ MHz is the upper limit.
Thanks for the correction. I had always understood that it used the conventional 950-1450. Guess I was wrong. ;)

[veryoldschool]

Thanks for the correction. I had always understood that it used the conventional 950-1450. Guess I was wrong. ;)
"Close"
It's listed as 974-1790 MHz, but they also say the channels have 100 MHz bandwidth, so it isn't clear if these are start, center, or :shrug: frequencies.

[egnlsn]

"Close"
It's listed as 974-1790 MHz, but they also say the channels have 100 MHz bandwidth, so it isn't clear if these are start, center, or :shrug: frequencies.
If the bandwidth is 974-1790MHz, the first channel would have to begin at 974 and the last channel would end at 1790, which doesn't add up for 100MHz channels, unless they're adding buffers to either end.

Here is a spec sheet (http://manuals.solidsignal.com/SPEC%20SHEET%20SWM-8.pdf) I just found for SWMs.

[jpitlick]

[/LIST]


Solid copper core was to have been used back then.
makes perfect sense at the time since this works fine for CATV.
If your runs aren't too long & you're using the 29 volt PI, this also makes sense.


I don't know for sure whether the dish to SWM-8 lines are solid copper or copper clad steel. I do know for a fact that my friend's dish to SWM-8 lines are copper clad steel because I saw them when I helped him install his SWM-8. I think we were both installed by DirectSAT USA around the same time. Maybe they cut corners. Regardless, both of our systems work flawlessly.

I am using the 29 volt PI and my runs are all probably less that 50' each.

I'm not saying that my setup is ideal, just that it works fine. D* never said anything about replacing coax when they did my installs. I wasn't about to let them drill holes in my house and run cables to wherever they wanted had they said anything.

[veryoldschool]

If the bandwidth is 974-1790MHz, the first channel would have to begin at 974 and the last channel would end at 1790, which doesn't add up for 100MHz channels, unless they're adding buffers to either end.

Here is a spec sheet (http://manuals.solidsignal.com/SPEC%20SHEET%20SWM-8.pdf) I just found for SWMs.
Here is what I was using:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

[egnlsn]

Here is what I was using:
http://forums.directv.com/pe/RepositoryFileDownloadServlet/10396641/SWM%20-%20Integrated%20LNB-ModuleTraining.pdf

Combine the two. That suggests that the frequencies indicated for each channel is the high end of that channel's bandwidth. With a 10MHz buffer on either end of the total bandwidth, the guide data would be in the 16MHz channel from 960-974MHz. Looks like there is also a 2MHz buffer between each channel.

[Cavicchi]

R.F. travels on the surface of the center conductor. If the cable is carrying r.f. only,(such as to the outlets in SWiM systems), it doesn't matter which type of cable is used (SC or CC). But, if there's D.C., SC should be used.

Well, isn't there DC in SWiM installation? Hello, veryoldschool, are you out there?

[veryoldschool]

Well, isn't there DC in SWiM installation? Hello, veryoldschool, are you out there?
There is but "only" between the PI & the SWiM [and if the SWiM is separate from the dish, then the SWiM to LNB].
There is NONE from the receivers to the SWiM.

[Cavicchi]

There is but "only" between the PI & the SWiM [and if the SWiM is separate from the dish, then the SWiM to LNB].
There is NONE from the receivers to the SWiM.
I know you said from dish to PI, but I'm lost when you say "if the SWiM is separate from the dish, then the SWiM to LNB."

How would the SWiM be separate from the dish , then SWiM to LNB?

I am pretty sure they changed one LNB on dish and ran one cable from dish to ground block, then to SWiM splitter, then out to receivers with one receiver having the PI connected to it. What scenario would entail the other situation you mentioned?

[veryoldschool]

I know you said from dish to PI, but I'm lost when you say "if the SWiM is separate from the dish, then the SWiM to LNB."

How would the SWiM be separate from the dish , then SWiM to LNB?

I am pretty sure they changed one LNB on dish and ran one cable from dish to ground block, then to SWiM splitter, then out to receivers with one receiver having the PI connected to it. What scenario would entail the other situation you mentioned?
There are several SWiMs:
You seem to have the SWiMLNB.
There are a SWiM8 & SWiM-16 that have four coax from the dish to them [which carry voltage].

[Cavicchi]

There are several SWiMs:
You seem to have the SWiMLNB.
There are a SWiM8 & SWiM-16 that have four coax from the dish to them [which carry voltage].
Should I call and demand a SWiM 8? :)

A supervisor came today and replaced the copper clad cables with DTV cables, and he saw an issue with power inserter not being hooked up right and fixed that as well. Plus, the cable going from power inserter to wall was going to a "clear" barrel connector and he said that was wrong and asked if I had a "blue one." I took one from a bedroom upstairs that has a cable connection but no TV connected, used to be my son's den. This "Blue one" is from my cable company. He put that in and connected TV to it and all was good--he said that would have caused issues and asked why the other supervisor didn't notice it.

I don't know why he didn't have any of those "Blue" barrel connectors and not even wall plates to fit the barrel connector.

In addition, he eliminated the extra barrel connector in basement. This supervisor serves a different area than mine, so he gave the other supervisor's cell number in case I have a problem--and he gave me his cell number as well, even though he doesn't cover my area. I don't know why he was here when he isn't supposed to cover my area, but I am glad it was him!

He told me he has the same setup with MRV at home and is using RG 59U.

Anyway, I want to personally thank you for all your help! I truly appreciate all the knowledge you brought me along with your advice. With your help, I am now, as of this moment, :) a very happy DirecTV customer.

[egnlsn]

Enjoy your services! ;)

[Cavicchi]

Enjoy your services! ;)
I would be even happier if I could enjoy the services of Shakira. ;)

[Cavicchi]

Well, the joy was temporary. For some unknown reason, the TV upstairs is getting an intermittent pixel issue on both HD and SD. I tried resetting but the issue remains. The TV in my den seems to be fine. I reported it to DTV.

After supervisor left today, the TV was on in my den and so I know he checked that one; the TV was not on upstairs and when I put it on, there was that searching for satellite message so I tried resetting, called DTV and we tried everything. Suddenly, I went back upstairs and the screen had a message about guide and to reset with red button--I did that and the guide and channels appeared. So, now I have to resolve this pixel problem with TV upstairs, an intermittent problem that occurs for 1-2 seconds at a clip.

The other thing is checking signal strength revealed signal going off periodically.

[joe diamond]

Well, the joy was temporary. For some unknown reason, the TV upstairs is getting an intermittent pixel issue on both HD and SD. I tried resetting but the issue remains. The TV in my den seems to be fine. I reported it to DTV.

After supervisor left today, the TV was on in my den and so I know he checked that one; the TV was not on upstairs and when I put it on, there was that searching for satellite message so I tried resetting, called DTV and we tried everything. Suddenly, I went back upstairs and the screen had a message about guide and to reset with red button--I did that and the guide and channels appeared. So, now I have to resolve this pixel problem with TV upstairs, an intermittent problem that occurs for 1-2 seconds at a clip.

The other thing is checking signal strength revealed signal going off periodically.

Pretty good story so far,

This is new equipment. It has been recently put into service and still has bugs. What I don't understand is why Directv just back charges the techs who work on it. How long do you guess the "supervisors" have been with Directv?

Joe

[Cavicchi]

Pretty good story so far,

This is new equipment. It has been recently put into service and still has bugs. What I don't understand is why Directv just back charges the techs who work on it. How long do you guess the "supervisors" have been with Directv?

Joe
I don't know how long they have been with DTV, but the one who came today said he was insulted when I first called him by the other supervisor's name--and he wasn't kidding. He doesn't think much of the other supervisor. This one who came today said he is a master electrician--he had RG 6 on the truck but no wall plates or those connectors that fit in the wall plate. They both seemed likable, pleasant and cooperative. The one who came today, kind of young, maybe thirties, seemed like he knew what he was doing.

DTV was supposed to call me back tonight, no call, maybe they'll call today, Saturday. Very strange I have this issue with TV upstairs.

[joe diamond]

I don't know how long they have been with DTV, but the one who came today said he was insulted when I first called him by the other supervisor's name--and he wasn't kidding. He doesn't think much of the other supervisor. This one who came today said he is a master electrician--he had RG 6 on the truck but no wall plates or those connectors that fit in the wall plate. They both seemed likable, pleasant and cooperative. The one who came today, kind of young, maybe thirties, seemed like he knew what he was doing.

DTV was supposed to call me back tonight, no call, maybe they'll call today, Saturday. Very strange I have this issue with TV upstairs.

The stories continue,

There are only so many techs in an area. Folks discover there is not enough money offered to travel very far. So you get interactions between techs who have met before under stressful conditions.

You have a problem with one set....I forget, no pic or just strange signal levels?

And you have techs who don't like each other. One was an electrician and will be again. Sat work is a fill in until things in his trade pick up. The other....unknown.

Report how it goes. There is a lot of cosmetic stuff & mythology that has no effect on how the equipment works. Let us see what they come up with.

Joe

[Cavicchi]

The stories continue,

There are only so many techs in an area. Folks discover there is not enough money offered to travel very far. So you get interactions between techs who have met before under stressful conditions.

You have a problem with one set....I forget, no pic or just strange signal levels?

And you have techs who don't like each other. One was an electrician and will be again. Sat work is a fill in until things in his trade pick up. The other....unknown.

Report how it goes. There is a lot of cosmetic stuff & mythology that has no effect on how the equipment works. Let us see what they come up with.

Joe
Originally it was no picture even after resetting via red button and power plug. Eventually, the unit did get guide info and I thought all was good until looking at channels. There is occasional picture breaking up causing a picture or part of picture to freeze for 1-2 seconds. I ran the signal strength meter and noticed signal would go from 90's to nothing on transponder 1 for 101--tuner 1 as this is on H24. DTV called this morning and the installer company called to setup an appointment for Monday.

What I found very annoying is the supervisor didn't have the "Blue" barrel connector that fits in the wall plate--clear one that was there is not to be used for power inserter--so I had to take one off another room not being used for TV and give it to him. Fortunately, that room had a "blue" barrel connector installed when house was built--pre-wired for cable.

[veryoldschool]

What I found very annoying is the supervisor didn't have the "Blue" barrel connector that fits in the wall plate--clear one that was there is not to be used for power inserter--so I had to take one off another room not being used for TV and give it to him. Fortunately, that room had a "blue" barrel connector installed when house was built--pre-wired for cable.
This is part of the myths that are running around.
Clear, white, green, red, pink barrels makes NO difference.
Monster Cable makes a fortune promoting myths like this.

[Cavicchi]

This is part of the myths that are running around.
Clear, white, green, red, pink barrels makes NO difference.
Monster Cable makes a fortune promoting myths like this.
For the power inserter, DTV confirmed it is necessary. While it makes no difference for the other connections, the "blue" inside does for connecting power inserter according to the supervisor and case manager for DTV.

[veryoldschool]

For the power inserter, DTV confirmed it is necessary. While it makes no difference for the other connections, the "blue" inside does for connecting power inserter according to the supervisor and case manager for DTV.
I'll throw the BS flag on this.
The colors are merely "coding". If you look at the PI and the splitter, & SWiM, these are red coded to show/indicate which are to be used for power.
Believe what you want, but there is ZERO difference between them.

[egnlsn]

This is part of the myths that are running around.
Clear, white, green, red, pink barrels makes NO difference.
Monster Cable makes a fortune promoting myths like this.

Actually, there is quite a difference -- and it has nothing to do with Monster. (Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of Monster by any means -- you won't find me wasting my money on any of their crap.)

Clear ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-1GHz, with insertion loss being 0.5dB@1GHz and return loss anywhere from 12-20dB. At 3GHz, the insertion loss jumps to 2.0dB and the return loss drops to 6dB.

Blue ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-3GHz, with the insertion loss being 0.1dB@1GHz (0.3dB@3GHz) and the return loss being 35dB@1GHz (26dB@3GHz).

Also, the pin holding force for clear ones is 50g at the initial insertion which drops with each insertion after that. With the blue ones, it starts at 200g and is still 120g after 50 inserts.

[Cavicchi]

Actually, there is quite a difference -- and it has nothing to do with Monster. (Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of Monster by any means -- you won't find me wasting my money on any of their crap.)

Clear ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-1GHz, with insertion loss being 0.5dB@1GHz and return loss anywhere from 12-20dB. At 3GHz, the insertion loss jumps to 2.0dB and the return loss drops to 6dB.

Blue ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-3GHz, with the insertion loss being 0.1dB@1GHz (0.3dB@3GHz) and the return loss being 35dB@1GHz (26dB@3GHz).

Also, the pin holding force for clear ones is 50g at the initial insertion which drops with each insertion after that. With the blue ones, it starts at 200g and is still 120g after 50 inserts.

So DTV and the installer are correct in that the Blue ones are only necessary for connection to power inserter and not required for other connections?

I know the cables from DTV state 3.0GHz on it, but I don't know how that relates to blue vs clear ones.

[Cavicchi]

Sorry, that is 3.0GHz.

[veryoldschool]

Actually, there is quite a difference -- and it has nothing to do with Monster. (Don't get me wrong. I'm not a fan of Monster by any means -- you won't find me wasting my money on any of their crap.)

Clear ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-1GHz, with insertion loss being 0.5dB@1GHz and return loss anywhere from 12-20dB. At 3GHz, the insertion loss jumps to 2.0dB and the return loss drops to 6dB.

Blue ones have a bandwidth of D.C.-3GHz, with the insertion loss being 0.1dB@1GHz (0.3dB@3GHz) and the return loss being 35dB@1GHz (26dB@3GHz).

Also, the pin holding force for clear ones is 50g at the initial insertion which drops with each insertion after that. With the blue ones, it starts at 200g and is still 120g after 50 inserts.
This part has merit, but is really the quality of manufacturing.
Any RF variation has to do with the physical materials being used, and they aren't any different.
You'd have to posts some test results and the equipment used to support these claims.
"IF" there was truly merit to these claims, then you'd see these connectors being used exclusively on ALL DirecTV hardware, which is isn't.
Some of the "crappiest" clear dialectic and center conductors [with the finger grabbing] are used on the Wideband multi-switches, for instance.
I've worked at frequencies over 40 GHz, and do know what does make a connector "high frequency", along with know the physical changes required.
While I do like a quality connector over a crappy one, the insertion loss & return loss you've called out, could only come from the very poorest ones with the clear dialectic and finger grabbing centers, which as I've posted are being used by DirecTV.
A "good" connector with a female center pin will have the same performance regardless of the color of the dialectic.

[joe diamond]

This part has merit, but is really the quality of manufacturing.
Any RF variation has to do with the physical materials being used, and they aren't any different.
You'd have to posts some test results and the equipment used to support these claims.
"IF" there was truly merit to these claims, then you'd see these connectors being used exclusively on ALL DirecTV hardware, which is isn't.
Some of the "crappiest" clear dialectic and center conductors [with the finger grabbing] are used on the Wideband multi-switches, for instance.
I've worked at frequencies over 40 GHz, and do know what does make a connector "high frequency", along with know the physical changes required.
While I do like a quality connector over a crappy one, the insertion loss & return loss you've called out, could only come from the very poorest ones with the clear dialectic and finger grabbing centers, which as I've posted are being used by DirecTV.
A "good" connector with a female center pin will have the same performance regardless of the color of the dialectic.

I stopped buying the four post ground blocks. The chrome looked great but almost every other one had a mfg problem with the blue dielectric pushing out or otherwise failing. You ended up with three ports grounded to the block and another single brass one grounded (maybe) or (most likely) a barrel connector bypassing the chrome ground block.

And I believe signal loss is calculated per 1000 ft so even twisted paper clips will serve for a quality 3 gig HD installation.

Joe

[veryoldschool]

I stopped buying the four post ground blocks. The chrome looked great but almost every other on had a mfg problem with the blue dielectric pushing out or otherwise failing. You ended up with three ports grounded to the block and another single brass one grounded (maybe) or (most likely) a barrel connector bypassing the chrome ground block.

And I believe signal loss is calculated per 1000 ft so even twisted paper clips will serve for a quality 3 gig HD installation.

Joe
Nice to see a dose of real world reality. Quality of parts has so much more to do than frequency "ratings" with 75Ω systems.
To really get into insertion loss & return losses, and what effects these, a fairly strong understanding of RF & impedance is needed, which I don't really want to go through here [again].

[egnlsn]

While the differences may be a result of materials used (beryllium-copper vs. phosphor bronze for the jaws, high-density polyethylene as opposed to just polyethylene for the dielectric, etc.) and workmanship (the manufacturing process), the differences are still there. True enough that the difference in insertion loss isn't enough to worry about, but the 20dB+ improvement in return loss is.

While I would much rather use a 1GHz F-81 from a major manufacturer than a 3GHz barrel from a minor manufacturer, from major manufacturers I would take a 3GHz any day.

For specifics on the testing, you'd need to contact the various manufacturers, such as Holland, Gilbert, PicoMacom, Regal, etc.

[veryoldschool]

While the differences may be a result of materials used (beryllium-copper vs. phosphor bronze for the jaws, high-density polyethylene as opposed to just polyethylene for the dielectric, etc.) and workmanship (the manufacturing process), the differences are still there. True enough that the difference in insertion loss isn't enough to worry about, but the 20dB+ improvement in return loss is.

While I would much rather use a 1GHz F-81 from a major manufacturer than a 3GHz barrel from a minor manufacturer, from major manufacturers I would take a 3GHz any day.

For specifics on the testing, you'd need to contact the various manufacturers, such as Holland, Gilbert, PicoMacom, Regal, etc.
In a 2:1 VSWR system, anything over that is meaningless.
I doubt contacting them would give me much more than what you've posted. These aren't measured any more than by design and perhaps spot samples to ensure the quality of production is maintained.
The F-81 is a good design/standard.
"Remember" marketing is there to entice you into buying their product, over the next.
Barrels simply aren't that big of a deal.
"high-density polyethylene as opposed to just polyethylene for the dielectric" all have a dielectric constant so close to each other that [again] they're for all intent the same.
When you do actually use a significantly different dielectric, it causes the center conductor size and distance to the shield to be different to maintain the 75Ω impedance of the line/connector. "If any" of these connectors were this way, they wouldn't fit each other.

[egnlsn]

I think I'll continue with my silly notion that return loss is more than just a number manufacturers throw out there for marketing purposes. An effect of low return loss can be standing wave, which can result in packet loss, which I'd rather avoid as much as I can.

Yes, they do test samples rather than every piece. I've had to wait for materials on backorder because some of the lots that came in from the manufacturing plant didn't pass QC testing at their own state-side facility.

[veryoldschool]

I think I'll continue with my silly notion that return loss is more than just a number manufacturers throw out there for marketing purposes. An effect of low return loss can be standing wave, which can result in packet loss, which I'd rather avoid as much as I can.
I wouldn't call it "silly".
I would say that if the end device has a return of around -20 dB, that there will be zero affect if a connector before this has -30+ dB return off it.
What you wouldn't want is to use a connector with -20 dB on a line that the end device has -30 dB.
[again] to put all of this into perspective, one really needs to understand RF more than in just a passing understanding.

[veryoldschool]

Think of this as being in a Tesla sports car on the freeway and being surrounded by Priuses. You could go 0-60 in under 4 sec, if the Priuses would let you, but they're determining the speed/flow and so you can't use your car's potential.

[ndole]

What a complete nightmare.

It didn't have problems until you messed with it did it?

Sin#!

[veryoldschool]

What a complete nightmare.

It didn't have problems until you messed with it did it?

Sin#!
Yeah, you know it needed "fixing". :lol:
The thing is, you need to actually know what you're doing to really fix something. ;)

[ndole]

Yeah, you know it needed "fixing". :lol:
The thing is, you need to actually know what you're doing to really fix something. ;)

If this was my customer they would have single handedly cost me about $700.00, for nothing.

Sorry, there isn't an emoticon for hitting my face with a shovel.

[veryoldschool]

If this was my customer they would have single handedly cost me about $700.00, for nothing.

Sorry, there isn't an emoticon for hitting my face with a shovel.
the closest would be: :bang

As for the other parts of this thread: :beatdeadhorse:

[egnlsn]

Think of this as being in a Tesla sports car on the freeway and being surrounded by Priuses. You could go 0-60 in under 4 sec, if the Priuses would let you, but they're determining the speed/flow and so you can't use your car's potential.
Your analogy has all of the cars going the same direction. Too bad it doesn't fit in a discussion about return loss.

If you're going to use an analogy with cars, it should be more like:
There is a large, fixed number of cars going north down the northbound lanes of the freeway. There are also a few cars going south, also in the northbound lanes. The more cars there are going south, the higher the chances are that there will be a collision between a northbound car and a southbound car. Lower return loss increases the number of southbound cars, while higher return loss decreases the number of southbound cars.

[veryoldschool]

Your analogy has all of the cars going the same direction. Too bad it doesn't fit in a discussion about return loss.

If you're going to use an analogy with cars, it should be more like:
There is a large, fixed number of cars going north down the northbound lanes of the freeway. There are also a few cars going south, also in the northbound lanes. The more cars there are going south, the higher the chances are that there will be a collision between a northbound car and a southbound car. Lower return loss increases the number of southbound cars, while higher return loss decreases the number of southbound cars.
Clearly you're a network type and not RF.
There are no "collisions" but merely reduction of the forward signal. When this reduction becomes so significant that the forward signal can't be demodulated, then there is a problem. With the DirecTV signals, this is around 10 dB above the noise, so a 20 dB return falls well within the system's performance specs.

Perhaps a better analogy would be a river flowing down stream with a back flow [if there was such]. If the back flow was -20 dB of the forward flow, then the forward flow would be reduced by 1-10%.

[egnlsn]

It sounds like you should do some studying up on standing wave, which has been causing grief in broadband systems for decades.

Negative on your "clearly" supposition. I've been working with r.f. much longer than networks. They both carry information from point A to point B on an r.f. carrier (or carriers), anyway.

To quote an engineer with what used to be AT&T Broadband, "Poor return loss may result in any or all of the following:
1. Loss of amplitude from the original signal.
2. Micro-reflection, which can affect digital equipment.
3. Multipath, which can add ghosting to analog pictures."

[veryoldschool]

It sounds like you should do some studying up on standing wave, which has been causing grief in broadband systems for decades.

Negative on your "clearly" supposition. I've been working with r.f. much longer than networks. They both carry information from point A to point B on an r.f. carrier (or carriers), anyway.

To quote an engineer with what used to be AT&T Broadband, "Poor return loss may result in any or all of the following:
1. Loss of amplitude from the original signal.
2. Micro-reflection, which can affect digital equipment.
3. Multipath, which can add ghosting to analog pictures."

Maybe a diagram would help, so we are on the same page:
http://www.dbstalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=22461&d=1276446517
This is a poor attempt and not to scale, but:
The large wave is the forward signal.
The green is the refection [-20 dB return loss] of the end device.
The red would be the -30 dB return loss of a connector.
The operating range of the system is above/below the blue line.
The phase changes of the returns could/would change, but not the amplitude.
With somewhere around 30 years working with this and frequencies over 40 GHz, while I may not know everything, I've seen & done a fair amount first hand.

[veryoldschool]

At this point in the thread, it may be time to just let this go.
Anyone that wants to buy the better barrel, so ahead, they're cheap.
Whatever explanation I was trying to give, has been done. If you "get it", great. If you don't, I'm not sure there is anymore I can do. :)

[egnlsn]

Thanks for the information. ;)

[Cavicchi]

If this was my customer they would have single handedly cost me about $700.00, for nothing.

Sorry, there isn't an emoticon for hitting my face with a shovel.

If there was a competent technician doing the install, there would not have been a need for me to go any further than the first visit. Any and all subsequent issues have been brought about by DTV technicians, including the present one with signal problem on one TV.

Bottom line: If DTV had a company doing installs and service like my cable company, there would have been just one visit to install.

[sigma1914]

If there was a competent technician doing the install, there would not have been a need for me to go any further than the first visit. Any and all subsequent issues have been brought about by DTV technicians, including the present one with signal problem on one TV.

Bottom line: If DTV had a company doing installs and service like my cable company, there would have been just one visit to install.

You never touched anything? :rolleyes:

[veryoldschool]

You never touched anything? :rolleyes:
There are always two sides.
One is that you leaving things alone when it's working and if you mess with it, you take responsibility.
Another side could be that the system is setup well enough that "normal" moving of things around doesn't change anything drastically.
My own system is more like the second.

[Cavicchi]

There are always two sides.
One is that you leaving things alone when it's working and if you mess with it, you take responsibility.
Another side could be that the system is setup well enough that "normal" moving of things around doesn't change anything drastically.
My own system is more like the second.
First, I was getting error messages to check cables, maybe 720 or 920, and we lost service occasionally.

Secondly, YOU were the one who suggested I have them replace the copper clad with solid copper for cable from dish to power inserter.

Things were not working as you seem to indicate, and they haven't been from day one. According to you, I never should have called to have them align the dish. The only responsibility involved here is from the technicians sent to my house--including the one who drilled an unnecessary hole through the floor.

When my cable company installed their service, I didn't have to make one single call for them to come back in the entire year. When I had their service for around 10 years prior to DTV, they came and fixed whatever and never, never had to return for not doing something correct. You can blame me all you want, but the real blame goes on the installer and DTV for hiring this kind of company. The technicians that come from my cable company work for my cable company--they are not sub-contracted out--and they are aware of what it means to do the job right.

[joe diamond]

First, I was getting error messages to check cables, maybe 720 or 920, and we lost service occasionally.

Secondly, YOU were the one who suggested I have them replace the copper clad with solid copper for cable from dish to power inserter.

Things were not working as you seem to indicate, and they haven't been from day one. According to you, I never should have called to have them align the dish. The only responsibility involved here is from the technicians sent to my house--including the one who drilled an unnecessary hole through the floor.

When my cable company installed their service, I didn't have to make one single call for them to come back in the entire year. When I had their service for around 10 years prior to DTV, they came and fixed whatever and never, never had to return for not doing something correct. You can blame me all you want, but the real blame goes on the installer and DTV for hiring this kind of company. The technicians that come from my cable company work for my cable company--they are not sub-contracted out--and they are aware of what it means to do the job right.

Brother Cavicchi,

YOU are attempting to resolve a situation using true logic. That is the problem here.

IF anything happens to make you pick up the phone to request service on your system the installer looses money.

There is someone, probably with a Business Degree, who has been allowed to decree; "screw the installer!" Instead of somebody wanting to come out and fix your problem...all tech want to avoid your system. Any component that fails will cost the next person to arrive at your home something.

Relax! Let some time pass. Call again.

Joe

[veryoldschool]

Secondly, YOU were the one who suggested I have them replace the copper clad with solid copper for cable from dish to power inserter....
I post two sides and you jump all over me?
Guess there was no side I could post that wasn't going to be "my fault".
Reread my post and pick one. :nono:

[Cavicchi]

Brother Cavicchi,

YOU are attempting to resolve a situation using true logic. That is the problem here.

IF anything happens to make you pick up the phone to request service on your system the installer looses money.

There is someone, probably with a Business Degree, who has been allowed to decree; "screw the installer!" Instead of somebody wanting to come out and fix your problem...all tech want to avoid your system. Any component that fails will cost the next person to arrive at your home something.

Relax! Let some time pass. Call again.

Joe

Well, I had to call again because TV upstairs is losing signal, and the supervisor that connected TV downstairs from wall to HR24 has it so I cannot remove the connection at the wall; in other words, there is no connector sticking out from wall and unable to "unscrew" it--looks like he connected both cables with "connector" inside wall.

I have 30 days of free service--if I wait beyond that period, they say I have to pay for someone to come over. Now, DTV has been wonderful in trying to get all my issues resolved. In fact, when I call, they send my complaint to a case manager who calls me back and sets up service with installer--DTV wants to know what is going on! Also, the case manager gave me his direct line and a pin number to get through.

I am relaxed, and I look forward to tomorrow when another technician comes over to fix what the last technician did, and the saga continues...

[john18]

Hang in there. This will be behind you soon.

[ndole]

http://sabra.celtae.org/pictures/sm/Emoticons_files/fool.gif

[Cavicchi]

Hang in there. This will be behind you soon.
Hopefully it is now behind me. The technician came over and found problem with signal was caused by faulty connector in wall, which was likely damaged by the technician making conductor pin too long. So, this technician replaced the connector and also cut a new plug on the cable going to wall.

Everything seems to be fine now, though we haven't done extensive testing. Still, I am confident the whole mess is over. I did receive a call from installer company asking me how things are, which was a nice touch, and said I should call if there any further issues. The technician who came today normally services my area and he left his cell phone number.

I do have to wait until the new TV for LR arrives later this week to find out about LR TV; there is no TV hooked up in LR at this time--technician did change barrel connector and replaced cable from SWiM to HR24. We moved LR TV upstairs and recycled old CRT upstairs--all this was done over a week ago. I was supposed to get new TV last Friday, but living in "remote area" means delivery is only on Thursdays.

[egnlsn]

Glad he found the issue. Good luck from here on out. ;)

[Cavicchi]

Glad he found the issue. Good luck from here on out. ;)

Thanks, been a rough ride, and I'm happy the road is now paved. :)

DTV apparently is only using the "blue connectors" now; they used to install those clear ones, at least some years ago by one technician.

So now my wife can stop bugging me and I can stop bugging DTV. :lol: I must say DTV has been absolutely wonderful in helping to get everything squared away with the installer--and always courteous to me even when I was screaming into the phone.

[hdtvfan0001]

Hopefully it is now behind me. The technician came over and found problem with signal was caused by faulty connector in wall, which was likely damaged by the technician making conductor pin too long. So, this technician replaced the connector and also cut a new plug on the cable going to wall.

Everything seems to be fine now...
If I had a penny for every time a faulty connector or cable was the ultimate source...I'd be retired (and rich) right now.... :D

[Cavicchi]

If I had a penny for every time a faulty connector or cable was the ultimate source...I'd be retired (and rich) right now.... :D
If the cable was faulty, then it was the supervisor who came last Friday and made it up (cut length and put F-connector) that is responsible. Neither cable or connector was bad before supervisor came.

[hdtvfan0001]

If the cable was faulty, then it was the supervisor who came last Friday and made it up (cut length and put F-connector) that is responsible. Neither cable or connector was bad before supervisor came.
Could be...but I've seen simple movements of equipment result in the discovery of less-than-solid connectors as well. Nothing sinister.

Infrastructure age also can be a factor.

One friend of mine had a case where his wife lifted up a DVR to dust, and the cable "fell off" at the connector. I asked how old the cables were...he told me "I don't know"...maybe 15 years...you should have seen the dust back there...it looked like a small rodent... :eek2::D

I check my cables for integrity no less than once/year. In many cases, with equipment moves, upgrades, or additions, they get examined more frequently.

Now that I upgraded everything 2 years ago to compression connectors (as opposed to the crimp kind still found in many homes), I see no issues here whatsoever.

[Cavicchi]

Could be...but I've seen simple movements of equipment result in the discovery of less-than-solid connectors as well. Nothing sinister.

Infrastructure age also can be a factor.

One friend of mine had a case where his wife lifted up a DVR to dust, and the cable "fell off" at the connector. I asked how old the cables were...he told me "I don't know"...maybe 15 years...you should have seen the dust back there...it looked like a small rodent... :eek2::D

I check my cables for integrity no less than once/year. In many cases, with equipment moves, upgrades, or additions, they get examined more frequently.

Now that I upgraded everything 2 years ago to compression connectors (as opposed to the crimp kind still found in many homes), I see no issues here whatsoever.

The cable was less than a week old, and with compression connector.

[hdtvfan0001]

The cable was less than a week old, and with compression connector.
Then your assumption about human error being involved is certainly credible.

[veryoldschool]

Gee, RF simply must be magical to work at all. :lol:

Truthfully anytime a connector is mated, it should be inspected.

Simply re-seating/mating can make or break a connection. Somethings it is a bad connector and some times it isn't.

I don't do annual inspections of my system. I do every time I work on it, but a full system inspection only comes when there is a problem, in the course of troubleshooting the problem.

[joe diamond]

Gee, RF simply must be magical to work at all. :lol:

Truthfully anytime a connector is mated, it should be inspected.

Simply re-seating/mating can make or break a connection. Somethings it is a bad connector and some times it isn't.

I don't do annual inspections of my system. I do every time I work on it, but a full system inspection only comes when there is a problem, in the course of troubleshooting the problem.

To state it another way,

The first trouble shooting step I may take with a rat nest behind the TV or at the GB is to just shake things and see what happens. Sometimes nothing happens and you have to look further. Sometimes that "fixes" it and you have to look for a defective fitting.

Intermittent problems are only a problem once in awhile but they do not go away.

Joe