Thought on upcoming Survivor

[Ron Barry]

Now that Amazing Race has completed and I was lucky enough to break the top ten, I thought I would throw some thoughts out on the Survivor game (This is if it will happen again here :) ) . Thanks again Z'loth for your effort., I had fun playing.

Here are my thoughts based on my experience. I have watched all 6 Survivors.

1) The last survivor show was the most unpredictable one yet. I am usually fairly good and figuring out the way things go. having said that, I was amazed that if I recall 5 people where able to pick both the Immunity and luxury challenges for the first 5 weeks in a row. These same people also were able to pick who got the boot. Hmm what are the odds of that?

Based on the fact that it was pretty unpredictable, I would suspect some information was leaked out and that part of the fun is trying to figure it out this give an unfair advantage to the people that scavage the Spoiler sites. I am not sure how to fix this or maybe it was just pure good analysis, but I would have to guess that

2) Maybe we need something more on the lines of the Amazing Race game where you have drawing at the end. That way even if you are a watching the spoiler sites or have inside information other people have a chance to win. Add a lot more pools that spoilers sites wont help and watch for what I term rather lucky guessing.

3) There have been cases where people that are related to the show have participated in these type of games with inside info. There was one case where they actually got caught if I remember.

3) The fact that Jana won and Mathew only got one vote has allows left a bad taste in my mouth. The only conclusion that comes to mind was that some of the voted of people convinced the other people to vote for Jenna heavily. Any thoughts here? I think the the people should be heavily watched and not allowed to talk about what happened on the island. Maybe even sequester them alone.

Well that is my 2 cents.

[Mark Lamutt]

The new Survivor contest will happen in some form or another. Haven't worked out all of the details yet...

I agree about the spoiler sites, and that's why I put in the bonus polls last season that were more random take your best guess type questions. There will be more of that with the new contest. However, the Survivor contest will not be a random drawing at the end for the grand prize. Or maybe there will be a random drawing for people that play every week for another prize other than the grand prize. Still working out details and prizes, so I can't really comment on that more yet.

None of the people that have won our Survivor contests have been affiliated with CBS or had any other inside info other than the stuff posted on spoiler sites. Last season, there was definitely information leaked about the first 15 days of the show, and it was posted all over the place. After the first 15 days, though, the information posted got to be somewhat less than reliable, as some players found out the hard way.

And yes, I really, really agree that the jury members should be sequestered individually. It really pissed me off as well that Jenna won it like that. Of course, the same thing happened in Thailand with Helen convincing Ted that Clay was a racist, so Brian got the vote.

[Randy_B]

I think Mark was quite clever to come up with bonus questions as a way to at least somewhat offset the spoiler sites. Perhaps a greater score on random bonus questions (the "whose your favorite gal/guy" question was a great example of spoiler site buster. Perhaps giving that type of question big points) might help? Perhaps some questions like who will vote 2nd at tribal council, or who will the 4th person to vote chose to be elimanted, or what will be the name on the 3rd ballot Jeff pulls out of the vase, or who will Jeff ask the first question to at Council, or who will be the first name that Jeff mentions at Tribal council? These would be way too random to guess, unless you work at CBS.

Even though the contest is for entertainment and definitely makes watching the shows more fun, there will always be people who have such a burn to win that cheating is a must for them. Even so, that doesn't make the game any less fun. I think a lot of us have fun just trying to edge out some of the other contestants that we know. Regardless, it is fun, that is enough for me (although I certainly wouldn't mind winning a 721!!)

[Ron Barry]

I agree that the questions targeted at spoilers was a good thing, but by week five the lead of people that used spoiler info was a big lead to overcome. Well having spoiler type questions at the beginning would be good thing. Personally, I will never go to the spoiler sites because I feel it takes away from watching the show. So maybe a good way to level the playing field would be to have more spoiler questions and have them have higher weight.

I almost got the feeling that people in the now started throwing a few questions to wards the end just so it did not look bad. I guess that was about the time when the spoiler info was going bad out on the net.

Mark glad to hear you will be having another one.

You are right about the Ted being fed some info on Clay. Not sure if that would have swayed is vote though, but that is another example. I also think it might have been why Richard one the first one. The person that keeps ringing in my head is Kathy (Deaf Girl) and how she stated more than once that she would never vote for Jenna. She hated those two girls and yet she voted for Jenna. To this day that has never made sense and I hope the survivor gets smart. I am getting tired of it coming down to two people and the person that in my opinion deserves to win does not. ;) It is one thing if this was done based on independent thinking, it is another thing if people were persuaded by strongly voiced opinions. Then again my opinion really does not matter. Just really ruined a good show last time with what seemed to be a group vote!! UGH!!!!! Just as a side note..... This also happened in Big Brother 4 in my opinion.

[DBSPaul]

Okay, I'll throw in my $0.02 as well. I wasn't a Survivor-head .. the wife was .. so I played the last two contests as a way of not having to go do something else while she watched the show. But I didn't do anything to try and find spoiler sites, etc. I just played the game and answered the polls based upon what I saw on the show.

I too, was pretty disheartened to see people rack up big early leads. If the point of the contest is to have fun and pit your instincts and such against other people, that's great. But instead it becomes a contest of how good you are at digging information from other sources, not just watching the show and making predictions.

I appreciated Mark's attempts to add "spoiler-proof" type questions into the mix, but ultimately the total points of those types of questions got dwarfed by the regular ones. So while they introduced some perterbations in the data, so to speak, it wasn't enough to give people who don't have time to dig for spoilers to jump up into the mix.

It's all really human nature - some people are really competitive and will do whatever they can to win, and I just viewed it as a way to make me think about the show and pay more attention to little details (DVRs make for good help on that).

I don't really think there is a lot Mark can do to overcome the spoiler issue, so I probably won't bother playing the next round because seeing one's name in the middle to low end .. just isn't very rewarding. If we could have two games, one for those who are "serious" and dig all over the place for info, and one for those who promise not to seek or use spoiler information, that would be better. But then how do you trust the people in the "non-spoiler" group to stick to that? :confused:

The bottom line is that when prizes are on the line, people will play to win. I guess I am just wishing for a more level playing field. :(

[Mark Lamutt]

Guys, I really hope that you will at least give this season a shot. I DO have some changes in mind, and am very well aware of the problems that have cropped up over the last 2 contests. The way I ran Amazon improved greatly over Thailand, and the way Pearl Islands will be run will be as big of an improvement. I've been thinking about this since the end of May, and have some interesting ideas on the subject. You'll see... :D

[Mark Holtz]

But, at least Mark enjoyed his vacation and having someone else take hold of the reigns for three months. :) A lot of work, but a lot of fun too.

[Ron Barry]

I do plan on participating. The reason I started this thread was to start some dialog and to bring up some issues that I ran accross participating in it. I found that this contest added some excitement and I am looking forward to another round. Mark, I am not sure if you have particpating in the CBS fantasy league, but I suggest that you take a look there. It might give you some ideas on ways to add things to take the spoil factor away.

Also, THe cast as been announced.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=797&ncid=799&e=3&u=/eo/20030828/en_tv_eo/12401

[DBSPaul]

But, at least Mark enjoyed his vacation and having someone else take hold of the reigns for three months.

I don't doubt it (Mark enjoying a well-deserved rest from running contests around here). I watched TAR, but didn't play, simply because I wasn't certain what the show was when I started to watch it.

I'll probably end up playing the next Survivor, although with my wife away on active duty my "insight" into the show drops by about 7/8... :nono:

[J Rath]

I have a suggestion based on something I observed in the last contest. Any bonus question that is directly related to one of the "regular" poll questions shouldn't have points awarded unless the poll question is answered correctly.
Or another option would be to give the bonus question the same "weight" (same amount of points).

For example: A bonus question such as "Who does the survivor voted out vote for" shouldn't be awarded points unless the "Who gets voted out" is answered correctly.

The reason I suggest that is IIRC, The "Who gets voted out" question got something like 4 points and the bonus question I mentioned above got 8. I seen at least a couple of times where somebody would get 4 extra points because they got the regular wrong but the bonus right over someone who got the regular right and the bonus wrong (8 point vs 4 points). I believe I even benefited from that situation once or twice (although it didn't help me in the end!!!:))

Again, it is just a thought and in no way a complaint. Mark has done an excellent job running this contest and I look forward to playing the next one regardless of how the points are awarded!

[Unthinkable]

I agree that the questions targeted at spoilers was a good thing, but by week five the lead of people that used spoiler info was a big lead to overcome. Well having spoiler type questions at the beginning would be good thing. Personally, I will never go to the spoiler sites because I feel it takes away from watching the show. So maybe a good way to level the playing field would be to have more spoiler questions and have them have higher weight.

I almost got the feeling that people in the now started throwing a few questions to wards the end just so it did not look bad. I guess that was about the time when the spoiler info was going bad out on the net.



If you go back and look at the end results every week from the last contest you will find the lead changed hands pretty often all the way through the duration of the contest. It was nothing at all like the original contest when CoryTV held onto the huge lead from week 1 and totally ran away completely unchallenged every week with the ultimate prize.

As far as throwing questions at the end so it didnt look so bad, I can't speak for Up On The Mountain or anyone else that finished at the top, but I know I personally never threw any challenges whatsoever to make things look closer then they actually were. My exchanges with Up On The Mountain afterwards did lead me to believe he also wasn't looking to throw anything for the sake of trying to alter other peoples impressions. It was a really tight race to the finish line with several people in a dead heat running for the grand prize in all fairness. All the anti-spoiler questions thrown in really evened up the playing field more then ever before. The 2nd place winner came from way back in the final week to almost claim first place. Mark L. throws a helluva well designed contest here and put a ton of hard work and hours into making it as fun as humanly possible. Good luck to everyone that plays this season.

[Unthinkable]

The only minor suggestion I'd make here and its one I already posed to Mark L. months ago would be one that pertains to how carefully worded the polls are with regards to say Who Wins RC or IC if a contestant wins then gives it up to someone else. Last season brought out a scenario where a female winner gave up her IC award to a friend of hers afterwards so you had two potential right answers depending on how you interpreted the wording of who wins it. Minor potential controversy for all intents and purposes that can be eliminated by a simple addendum of who wins it initially for example so no one gets into ugly arguments or flame wars.

[Ron Barry]

I agree, however the point was that the first 5 weeks people that were frequenting the spoiler sites were given an advantage and by then the people that did not frequent these sites had a huge lead to overcome. Are you saying that you were one of the ones that got all the polls right the first five weeks? The point I was trying to make that by week 5 the gap was so big that it was very hard if you did not frequent the spoiler sites to overcome. I was hoping to discuss someway to minimize this. It was obvious that a leak occurred and that a number of people took advantage of the leak which made it nearly impossible for people that like the surprise factor of survivor to compete. Well it was either that or insiders where playing. I was not sure what one it was and suggest the throwing the questions as a possibility if it was the insider issue. Guess it was a leak.

I am not saying it is cheating to check out the spoiler sites, but it can give an unfair advantage and most people that are big survivor fans do not go to those sites because it takes so much from the show. I am sure from your perspective that it was closer but from a person that by week 5 had a huge gap to fill it was not close at all. I was only bringing up the point and i do appreciate Marks hard work.

As far as Cory goes, that was not the case in the start since it was a group contest. He only ran away with it when it became a single competition. The problem here occurred the first 5 weeks and those week if I recall did not have spoiler polls.

I did not mean to accuse anyone of throwing question but only posed it as a possibility if there were indeed insiders. As I stated, insiders have played in other survivor games and got caught. ;)

[Mark Lamutt]

The problem that happened with Survivor: Amazon was one of the locals that worked on the set during the production gave an interview afterwards that leaked some of the results of some of the competitions. The information made it around to all of the spoiler sites. The first 5 weeks worth of information was pretty accurate. After that, there were errors in it (one of the big ones being that Christy made it to the final 4). That's where the advantage came in for the people looking at the spoiler sites came from.

That being said, though, The Unthinkable was only 20 points ahead of the middle of the pack after week 5. That was definitely not an insurmountable lead, considering how many points were still available in my opinion. Oh, and week 5 was when Bonus Poll #2 showed up. So the bonus polls had started by that time.

Regardless, the polls are going to be reworded this time around to try to avoid some of the minor controversy of the last contest, plus some of the questions are going to be more varied this time around. Some weeks will have the standard questions, and some weeks the questions will be much more off the wall and random. And, as there will be at least one random, spoiler-free poll each week, the concept of the bonus polls goes away. Total available points will be roughly the same as last season (somewhere between 250 and 300). Participation points will work the same as last season - I thought that was one aspect that worked well with the voting points each week, and then the participation bonus at the end.

And, keep in mind The Unthinkable, you and CoryTV (if he ever comes back) won't be elligible to win the grand prize(s). I hope you still play, though - we'll still have the dvds and store stuff as other prizes.

I'll have the prizes set this week, and hope to finalize the rules, new graphics and the website this weekend. :)

[Ron Barry]

All sounds good mark. My take on the points was a little different and I guess one could have come back but with the way things went at the Amazon you would of had to be a lucky person to make that ground up. I was able to make it a lot of it, but just not all of it. ;) I hope that no leakes get out this time. Survivor is usually very good at protecting that info and they throw their own FUD in to muddy the waters.

Is the "You" in your last post me? Why am I not eligible? Is it because I came in second on the Amazing Race contest. I didn't win any grand prize on the Amazing Race.

I do plan on playing and I am looking forward to it. It was great fun and I hope that this time the playing field is a little more level. I know you can't control outside sources and spoiler sites and having random questions throughout should help. I will have to go back and look at the scoring from the amazing. Maybe my perception of the first 6 weeks is a bit skewed.

Look forward to a fun and exciting survivor 7? At one time they thought of having a champion tournament where they bring back the survivor winners and some people that got a bum rape to compete. Anyone here if that is still happening?

[jcrash]

Guys, I really hope that you will at least give this season a shot. I DO have some changes in mind, and am very well aware of the problems that have cropped up over the last 2 contests. The way I ran Amazon improved greatly over Thailand, and the way Pearl Islands will be run will be as big of an improvement. I've been thinking about this since the end of May, and have some interesting ideas on the subject. You'll see... :D


I think that everyone on the show just having one set of clothes shoud decrease the spoilage a little. Sometimes the spoilers made by different outfits in different preview clips.

[Mark Lamutt]

Is the "You" in your last post me? Why am I not eligible? Is it because I came in second on the Amazing Race contest. I didn't win any grand prize on the Amazing Race.

Look forward to a fun and exciting survivor 7? At one time they thought of having a champion tournament where they bring back the survivor winners and some people that got a bum rape to compete. Anyone here if that is still happening?

Nope - you WeeJavaDude are elligible. The Unthinkable and CoryTV are not elligible for the grand prize(s) because they won the last 2 contests.

Survivor 8 is supposed to be the championship tournament.

[Lee L]

Look forward to a fun and exciting survivor 7? At one time they thought of having a champion tournament where they bring back the survivor winners and some people that got a bum rape to compete. Anyone here if that is still happening?

If someone had been subjected to a bum rape, I doubt they would want to come back. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Danny R]

If someone had been subjected to a bum rape, I doubt they would want to come back.

Speaking of bum raps, anybody watch the Joe Schmoe "reality" show. Now that might make an interesting contest. There is no question who will "win" the game, but rather how much of a fool they can make the contestant look. ;)

[Mark Holtz]

Nope - you WeeJavaDude are elligible. The Unthinkable and CoryTV are not elligible for the grand prize(s) because they won the last 2 contests.Coolness. WeeJavaDude should only be Spirited Away, not ineligible.

The title on Tivo reads "Survivor: Pearl Islands". Check your season passes.

[sorahl]

I have a comment on the 'unfair'ness of using info leaked to the web.
IMHO, i think that is a load of Barbara Streisand (BS). The fact that the info is on the web means that it is FULLY available to anyone who does a good search. It takes what 10 minutes to find out. I'm not saying this as a way of defending myself, as you can tell from my score :) It's funny how this game on dbstalk is becoming a microcosm mirror of RL... There are some people who utilize every bit of opportunity for them to succeed and these people are criticized for it. If you don't like the success of others... i don't even know what to say. Each and every person playing has the same right (another word I hate, cuz last time I checked success is not a right guaranteed in the constitution unlike the opportunity to succeed) to find what ever information they can. If you don't TRY to find out all you can to best equip yourself for the task at hand, then don't whine about it.
Lets just enjoy the game, play at the level you want to, accept your final position, and thank these guys for running the dang thing in the first place!!!

:)

We are all quasi friends after all, right?

Sorahl

[Mark Lamutt]

Yup... :D

[Ron Barry]

Well since I started this thread, I guess I should reply. Not surprised that I would get the old "Stop Whining" comment but thats cool.

First off, it is not a matter of being able to search the info out, because I agree everyone has the same opportunity to do that. However, I also feel the DBSTalk game is in the spirit of survivor and not a Internet Scavenger hunt. Trying to figure out the outcome is part of the fun and going to spoiler sites takes away from that enjoyment so I for one don't do that. That does not mean I feel people that do are cheaters. I don't.

I know that Survivor spoiler information is easily available, but there are a number of us that actually watch survivor and would rather not hear the spoiler stuff. It ruins watching survivor in my opinion. The issue is, If the spoiler info allows people that frequent the spoiler sites to answer all the questions right, it takes away from the people that don't and creates an unfair advantage. And before you go and say that Its my choice. I agree it is and I will continue to play the game and not hit the spoiler sites. However, I also feel that if Mark can tweak the game so that both types of players have a even chance then more people will participate and enjoy the game. That was the whole purpose of the thread in the first place. It was not to criticize the success of others.

Bottom Line:
There is nothing wrong with going to spoilers sites to search for info. But, if Mark can level the field for both type of players it is even better.

This thread was not suggesting we should punish people for their resourcefulness. I think you are reading way to much into the discussion I started. Maybe it felt like whining, but I was attempting to bring up an issue that occurred during the last game to try and improve the game and give both types of players an equal chance at winning. Based on your argument below, I guess you would be totally cool if the person that ends up winning actually was feed info from someone inside CBS? This person does not work with CBS, but has a buddy that does? hmmmmm. ;) Well I for one would not and think it would be unfair to everyone here and I hope that does not occur.

The point that I was trying to bring up was their is a reality that information can be leaked and that by adding some additional twists to the game the effect of the leaked info can be minimized and could level the field for both types of players. I think Mark agrees with this point and plans on doing some more of it.. Thats cool and appreciate him listening to feedback.

I brought up the possibility of insider info because I was not aware of the leaked info to spoiler sites for the first 5 weeks. It sounds like Mark is addressing this issue in the next game and I am looking forward to playing. I appreciate all Mark's help and the fact that he can listen to input. He puts a lot of effort to put a good game on and I am sure he wants everyone to enjoy it. Also, there are a lot of people that play and I am sure I am not alone that are glad to hear Mark is addressing the spoiler site issue.

From my personal perspective, I did accept my position even after the first 4 weeks had half a dozen people getting all the questions right (A feat I feel is impossible without spoiler or inside info :)). I continued to play and played ever week. I am glad that Mark does this contest and as a result I have given my business to Dish Depot and recommended them when possible.

From what I can tell, we sit on both sides of the fence here and that is cool. Look forward to competing in the contest and based on my last effort I hope to do better. :)

THANKS MARK FOR RUNNING THE CONTEST AND LISTENING TO THE CONSTRUCTIVE FEEDBACK!! :D

I have a comment on the 'unfair'ness of using info leaked to the web.
IMHO, i think that is a load of Barbara Streisand (BS). The fact that the info is on the web means that it is FULLY available to anyone who does a good search. It takes what 10 minutes to find out. I'm not saying this as a way of defending myself, as you can tell from my score :) It's funny how this game on dbstalk is becoming a microcosm mirror of RL... There are some people who utilize every bit of opportunity for them to succeed and these people are criticized for it. If you don't like the success of others... i don't even know what to say. Each and every person playing has the same right (another word I hate, cuz last time I checked success is not a right guaranteed in the constitution unlike the opportunity to succeed) to find what ever information they can. If you don't TRY to find out all you can to best equip yourself for the task at hand, then don't whine about it.
Lets just enjoy the game, play at the level you want to, accept your final position, and thank these guys for running the dang thing in the first place!!!

:)

We are all quasi friends after all, right?

Sorahl

[sorahl]

WJD,

I don't think that we are on opposite sides of this 'discussion'. I would say that someone being fed info from 'inside' CBS would be wrong :) that's insider trading...

I am with you on not looking for the spoiler info in regards to Survivor and even on TAR. I enjoy watching the episodes with my wife. I go so far as to avoid all things newsy regarding Survivor until after my wife and I watch the episode (usually the next night).
My beef, and not with you, is the general theme that seems to be spreading around TRW that everyone needs to be on a level playing field. Our friend Karl Marx seems to have said something on that and look how well his idea worked out.
Life is life, it ain't fair, God never intended it to be fair. You gets your hand, play it or fold it.
Gosh, could I use more metaphors???

Sorahl

[Randy_B]

There are some people who utilize every bit of opportunity for them to succeed and these people are criticized for it.

Like . . . loaded dice, marked cards, steroids, blood doping, etc... all readily available as well, . . . sounds like a long euphemism for cheating.

Key part of Tonya Harding's failed legal defense?

I teach my children there is no negatives to losing in straight up, head to head, fair and honest competition. Try hard, enjoy what you are doing. Sad world where cheating is equated to initiative.

Regardless of winning or losing, DBSTalk Survivor contest is FUN. Good enough for me.

[Ron Barry]

Well the information that is posted on spoiler sites came from an CBS employee so that would also constitute insider trading. ;) but that is another story. As for "Playing the hand you are dealt" , Well I agree to some extent, but if one feels there is an issue we should offer an opinion and some suggestions on how to deal with it. I also feel that just saying something is not right without offering up some suggestions does not help. The purpose of this thread was not to Whine about the winners but to address the spoiler site issue. As you can see I did offer up some suggestions for Mark and tried to solicite other opinions.

Since I don't work for TRW I can't comment on that. But I do tend to agree with Randy's thoughts but to each is own. The spoiler factor cannot be taken away so changing the game to address it is the best chance at making the game more enjoyable for all. ;) I like playing the game and I am sure this season will be even better and more competitive.

[sorahl]

That would presume that utilizing information available in the public domain is cheating. Is the information available on the web always reliable? Of course not. Should the use of information found on the web be defined as cheating?
Let me put it in this context.
Say I use the internet to book a vacation for my family to Walt Disney World and I stay in Port Orleans for 59 dollars a night and pay 175 dollars for each airline ticket. on top of that I also plan out where we are going to eat based upon the menus i found on the internet and I only spend 40 dollars a day to feed my wife, son, and I. Plus we get to see the show at Epcot from a special secluded spot.
Say in the room next to us is another family of 3 who are paying 129 dollars each night and spent 100 dollars plus a day and couldn't see the show at Epcot because of the crowds.

Did I cheat by utilizing the information i gained on the internet? I surely realized a monetary advantage and result from the fruits of my internet investigation.

Just food for thought (the example on Disney is real).

Sorahl

[Ron Barry]

Nope you would not be. It is a matter where the line is drawn and everyone has an opinion as to where that line should be drawn. It is a basic ethics question and one in which we all have different opionions.

Good point about that the realiability of the information and as Mark had mentioned that information did get less reliable as the show went on. I question that comes to mind is did this result in an overall advantage or not? My guess is it did in this case provide an overal advantage and though you can't rely on info from the web, the first four weeks it was proven to be from insider info (that is my understanding). It is also a well known fact that the people that work in survivor send out a lot of bogus info to muddy the waters. This I am sure helped later on in the game with respect to the spoiler watchers.

As for the Disney example, I understand the analogy but in this case the circumstances are a bit different.

Well anyway, I think Mark understand the issue and will adjust accordingly. Now... Bring on Pearl Island.

[Mark Lamutt]

I do understand the issue, and actually agree with both sides of it. You'll get to see my solution tomorrow morning when the rules go online and live. Some of the polls and features from previous contests are still there. but there are a lot of new features that I'm sure some people will really love, and some people won't. I'm pretty sure that overall it will be balanced and give everyone a chance to win, without dumbing down the competition too much.

Here's a couple of previews of the changes to whet your appetites:

2 points for voting in each poll (rather than 1 point from last season). Minimum of 4 polls each week, with 2 of them being non-spoiler possible (hopefully!) polls. Polls will have varying point values based on difficulty (in my opinion) that will be assigned when the polls are posted. Random point awards throughout the contest based on participation. A LOT of points available the final week (at least 62).

Read all about it tomorrow morning!

[Ron Barry]

Sounds Great Mark!!!

[Mark Lamutt]

I have been giving this a lot of thought. :D

[Mark Holtz]

Will we have to choose between one big master list as to who will be eliminated, or two tribe lists (until the tribes start living together)?

[Lee L]

OMG Mark, the tribes will start living together? Did you read that at one of those internet spoiler sites? You've spoiled it for me! ;) ;)

[sorahl]

I read that the they were going to split the group in to three tribes by sex..

[Ron Barry]

I hope you are joking there sorahl.. Was not aware of a third sex??? hmm I don't even think I am going to guess on that one.

[sorahl]

Yeah of course I'm joking. I'm trying to start some of those spoilers. If ppl do a search on google for tribes maybe they'll see it! :)

[Ron Barry]

LOL.... Figured you were, but one never knows.

[sorahl]

Aye and neither will they! Heck I could come up with some great poll questions that could be based on erroneous info i plant out there :) hehe