Dish looks fuzzy on Big Screens

[scottchez]

Dish looks fuzzy on Big Screens. I have heard and seen this many times.


Just how important is the S-Video cable quality? (dont everyone say go out and by Monster cables).

What is a good normal priced S-video cable to use?

How important is the contrast?

How to you tweak the video settings when you cant us the Avia DVD on Dish as DIsh is not a DVD player?

Idea?

[GreyGhost00]

Dish will look fuzzy on big screens no matter what kind of cable you use. The problem is in the picture quality of the source - since satellite broadcasters compress the signal a lot, sacrifices are made in picture quality. When the signal is displayed on large screens, it's easier to notice the flaws.

[Nick]

"Dish looks fuzzy on Big Screens. I have heard and seen this many times."

Beware of broad generalizations and keep in mind that most people don't have a clue as to how to properly adust their TV settings. Regarding "fuzzy", it depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which is the level of compression being used by a provider at a given time. It varies. All other things being equal, any video image will suffer a loss of sharpeness and detail when enlarged beyond a certain size.

"How to you tweak the video settings when you cant us the Avia DVD on Dish as DIsh is not a DVD player?"

A calibration disk is used to help adjust the TV settings, not the sat receiver.
____________

Before you do any adjustments to your TV, let it warm up and stabilize for 30-60 minutes.
____________

The most important user-accessible video adjustments on your TV are:

Color Level
Brightness
Contrast (Black Level)
Sharpness
Tint

In other words, all of them - they work together and should be considered as a whole. If you change one setting, that will, in turn, slightly alter the image achieved from another setting.

User Adjustments:

Generally, lower settings yield a truer picture. Disable all "automatic" settings first before your adjust anything. Generally speaking when tweaking a video image on a TV or monitor, less is more.

Convergence: The precise alignment of the red, blue and green 'guns' at predetermined points on the raster. Very important that you understand what convergence is and how it functions. If you move or reposition your TV, you should recheck your set's convergence.

Settings:

SVM or VM: Off
Auto-color: Off
Video NR: On, unless Off looks better

You must have a critical eye for picture detail as user adjustments are best done in very small increments. If you totally screw things up, you can always bail by using the reset feature on your video menu, which will return the picture to typically less-than-desirable factory settings, once again from which you will want to start over.

If you had stated what specific brand and model TV you have, perhaps we could be a little more helpful.

[scottchez]

Thanks


I got it perfected. Wow, almost like a DVD!!!


The trick is to tweak the set on a constant channel like the DISH Sport Stop or the Dish Logo one on the ALT FOX and ESPN Channels that ONLY display the big Dish logo.

I keyed in on the Giant Dish Log, tweaked it real good.

The biggest problem was the Set was not set on INTERLACED mode. I have a sony that also has a Cenimotion mode which made the Line on the DIsh Logo look jagged.

I also tool out almost all of the enhancemet like the aboce post suggested (I guess the Dish picture was already good to start out with).

Wow, what a difference!

I also tried different quality of S-Video cables- this did not matter at all.

Thanks

[scooper]

Nick - WELL SAID !!! I feel like I'm a broken record sometimes, but it REALLY does make a difference to use Avia or Video Essentials on your TV. SO much of the bitching about E* (and D*, for that matter) PQ could be avoided if they would just spend the $50 or less for the DVD and about an hour of time adjusting your several hundred to several thousand dollar TV with these.

Scottchez - probably a good start, but I still would recomend you get the Avia or Video Essentials and use them in conjunction with your settings. Once you've done this, you might even find the composite NTSC input to be pretty good.

For all you reading this - this DVD's will not necessarily help you to develop a "perfect" picture - they merely help you adjust your set to "as good as it's going to get". Sure, there will still be some DBS related issues pop up - but they substantially "go away" with a properly adjusted set. The best part about these DVD's - all their adjustments are done with controls that YOU - Joe Consumer - can do.

[jerryez]

I have a Toshiba 65" HD TV. I calibrated it with the Avia disc. I have E and Cox cable, I get an excellent picture (for Standard Definition) on both. I see no problem with the quality of E's picture on most channels. Some of the 9500 channels are not very good, but I am sure that is the broadcasters lack of picture quality and not E.

[irishlad]

I did a search on amazon for the Avia disc, its going for $37.46, also more interestingly an updated "Digital Video Essentials" is being released on 9/9 for the first time since 1997. Its going for $18.74.

Anyone know how the original "Digital Video Essentials" compared to the Avia Disc ?

[Unthinkable]

I've found Toshiba big screen sets provide great SD and HD pictures in general fwiw.

[Bowtieman]

I have been having the problem of having a great picture on closeups but the minute the camera goes wide to take in the whole football field, for example, the picture becomes fuzzy(grainy) since the day I got my 50" Sony Grand Wega. The instant it pans in on a particulr person(s) or area it is ok again. It is very annonying to have this happen and not know how to correct it.

I have tried every adjustment that I know how to make and have had zero luck repairing that problem. Is this a normal charaterstic of HD tv's.

I am talking about being in standard definition mode in 4.3 as I have yet to get a HD set top. I have Dish 500 with a 3900 box.

Any thoughts or ideas I could try would be appreciated.

[dadder]

I read your 'solution' to the often fuzzy picture.

I have only one comment. :

Why is my OTA reception sharper, albiet snowy, than the DishNetwork?

C-band is also sharper by far.

Shouldn't be be directly addressing the OverCompression issue as opposed to ducking the issue.

Regards,"Dish looks fuzzy on Big Screens. I have heard and seen this many times."

Beware of broad generalizations and keep in mind that most people don't have a clue as to how to properly adust their TV settings. Regarding "fuzzy", it depends on a lot of factors, not the least of which is the level of compression being used by a provider at a given time. It varies. All other things being equal, any video image will suffer a loss of sharpeness and detail when enlarged beyond a certain size.

"How to you tweak the video settings when you cant us the Avia DVD on Dish as DIsh is not a DVD player?"

A calibration disk is used to help adjust the TV settings, not the sat receiver.
____________

Before you do any adjustments to your TV, let it warm up and stabilize for 30-60 minutes.
____________

The most important user-accessible video adjustments on your TV are:

Color Level
Brightness
Contrast (Black Level)
Sharpness
Tint

In other words, all of them - they work together and should be considered as a whole. If you change one setting, that will, in turn, slightly alter the image achieved from another setting.

User Adjustments:

Generally, lower settings yield a truer picture. Disable all "automatic" settings first before your adjust anything. Generally speaking when tweaking a video image on a TV or monitor, less is more.

Convergence: The precise alignment of the red, blue and green 'guns' at predetermined points on the raster. Very important that you understand what convergence is and how it functions. If you move or reposition your TV, you should recheck your set's convergence.

Settings:

SVM or VM: Off
Auto-color: Off
Video NR: On, unless Off looks better

You must have a critical eye for picture detail as user adjustments are best done in very small increments. If you totally screw things up, you can always bail by using the reset feature on your video menu, which will return the picture to typically less-than-desirable factory settings, once again from which you will want to start over.

If you had stated what specific brand and model TV you have, perhaps we could be a little more helpful.

[Jack White]

I have been having the problem of having a great picture on closeups but the minute the camera goes wide to take in the whole football field, for example, the picture becomes fuzzy(grainy) since the day I got my 50" Sony Grand Wega. The instant it pans in on a particulr person(s) or area it is ok again. It is very annonying to have this happen and not know how to correct it.

I have tried every adjustment that I know how to make and have had zero luck repairing that problem. Is this a normal charaterstic of HD tv's.

I am talking about being in standard definition mode in 4.3 as I have yet to get a HD set top. I have Dish 500 with a 3900 box.

Any thoughts or ideas I could try would be appreciated.

You can try a lot of stuff, getting an ISF calibration, using very expensive cables, etc, but the problem is most likely due to either overcompression by Dish or bad quality source material in the first place.
Unfortunately, in my opinion to get standard def programming that looks good on large screens, Analog C-band/4DTV are about the only options out there that have the kind of picture quality that will not be "SOFT" or "BLURRY" on larger screens.
HD sets linedoublers often make the problem even worse on poorer quality standard def sources like DBS or cable.
You can email dish and complain about the overcompression, but they probably won't do anything because there are like 10 dish customers who want MORE CHANNELS MORE CHANNELS MORE CHANNELS for every 1 person who wants better picture quality.

[Nick]

Welcome to DBSTalk, dadder. :wave: Glad to have you on board.

You ask..."Shouldn't we be directly addressing the OverCompression issue as opposed to ducking the issue?"

You make a good point, but I don't think we are necessarily "ducking" the issue, just doing those things toward picture improvement over which we DBS subs have some degree of direct control. I certainly agree that overcompression needs to be addressed. Certainly, when 105W is illuminated, some bandwidth at 110W and 119W will be freed up. Otherwise, how do you suggest we deal with it other than individually and collectively communicating our concerns to E*?

[dadder]

Welcome to DBSTalk, dadder. :wave: Glad to have you on board.

You ask..."Shouldn't we be directly addressing the OverCompression issue as opposed to ducking the issue?"

You make a good point, but I don't think we are necessarily "ducking" the issue, just doing those things toward picture improvement over which we DBS subs have some degree of direct control. I certainly agree that overcompression needs to be addressed. Certainly, when 105W is illuminated, some bandwidth at 110W and 119W will be freed up. Otherwise, how do you suggest we deal with it other than individually and collectively communicating our concerns to E*?

Thanks for reading my mind. I have Dish 500 and see no value in it if it's not to reduce the obvious over-compression.

Local Channel availability need not 'clutter up' 110.

The DishNetwork orginated ads are approaching crystal clarity, but MSNBC and CNN are certainly not. The problem is glaring on poorer quality films. Full field shots on NESN are also a real problem.

I believe that the technology is capable, but the business decisions seem to be a priority.

Either way, DishNetwork appears to be our only solution here in the woods of Eastern Maine.

Further, while I'm 'wound up', HDTV is NOT in my future budget. I sincerely doubt that the majority of DishNetwork subscribers plan to dish out the $$$ either. Why not use 110* to address the over-compression issue?

Regards,

Steve

[dadder]

Welcome to DBSTalk, dadder. :wave: Glad to have you on board.

You ask..."Shouldn't we be directly addressing the OverCompression issue as opposed to ducking the issue?"

You make a good point, but I don't think we are necessarily "ducking" the issue, just doing those things toward picture improvement over which we DBS subs have some degree of direct control. I certainly agree that overcompression needs to be addressed. Certainly, when 105W is illuminated, some bandwidth at 110W and 119W will be freed up. Otherwise, how do you suggest we deal with it other than individually and collectively communicating our concerns to E*?


You are absolutely correct.

One other item and then I'll sit down and behave.

Why is the 'crawl' containing news, etc. below the viewing level at the bottom of CNN, MSNBC and others.
Is it technically possible to include that in the picture?

There!

I guess that's it.

Our C band dish is dying. It's losing it's memory. Can't blame it though. It's sixteen years old and there is no service available.

Therefore DishNetwok will be our solution here in the woods of Eastern Maine. The capture ratio is far better than DTV and the convenience as compared to C band is obvious. The 3900 died and DishNetwork replaced it with a rebuilt for around $40. including shipping in less than five days. You really can't beat that.

Thanks for your prompt responce.

Regards,

Steve

[jerryez]

"Further, while I'm 'wound up', HDTV is NOT in my future budget."

For the blurry wide angle shots on football, HD is the only solution. The focus of SD cameras is not of the quality to produce clear wide angle shots on cable or dbs. NFL football is no longer on C Band, so buy into HD or put up with the blurry wide angle shots. DBS will never have the bandwidth of C Band.

[Nick]

Steve asks..."Why is the 'crawl' containing news, etc. below the viewing level at the bottom of CNN, MSNBC and others. Is it technically possible to include that in the picture?"

Steve, you didn't say if you have a CRT tv or an RPTV, but generally stated, if otherwise, your screen is 'filled' at the top and sides, the bottom of the raster, your TV is overscanning the physical frame of your set similar to the old 'vertical size' problem. This can only be adjusted through the service menu. I have a related 'minor' problem with the geometry of my new panny 53". On some channels, the crawl is partially cut off at the bottom of the frame, and on one channel the crawl 'dives' down slightly at the extreme lower left of the frame as the scrawl disappears off-screen. This will be corrected when I have the set calibrated by an ISF tech. You may be able to achieve a very slight correction by lowering your brightness level. This usually reduces raster size by just a little.

Personally, I dislike crawls. They are distractive and now I worry about burn-in. :(

Best of luck.

[dadder]

The 'crawl' is buried on both the 43" projection tv in the living room as well as the 13" crt in the kitchen.

Regards,

Steve

[jerryez]

This should be adjustable. Look thru you owners manual.

[MikeJ]

I watch all my DISH network SD channels in up-converted 1080i on my Mitsubishi WS-55805 set. They really look good. My HDTV channels are great using my 6000 receiver.

[Mike D-CO5]

I watch all my DISH network SD channels in up-converted 1080i on my Mitsubishi WS-55805 set. They really look good. My HDTV channels are great using my 6000 receiver.


You don't notice any smearing of the faces on the misibishi hdtv? I bought one last fall and made them bring it back since it looked so bad on sd programs. I would have loved to have had all my sd programs upconverted to 1080i but it didn't work for me. :rolleyes:

[DarrellP]

I watch my HD on a 110" diagonal screen with a projector and being upconverted to 1080i does help a little bit. The image I get from my 6000 looks better than if I feed the 501 through S-Video to the PJ. Still, it is way too soft to watch for very long. I opt not to watch any SD Dish programming on the PJ and watch it on the 27" set where it looks very good.

As Nick posted, calibration is a TV's best freind and will go a long way to improving your PQ.

[Jack White]

I watch my HD on a 110" diagonal screen with a projector and being upconverted to 1080i does help a little bit. The image I get from my 6000 looks better than if I feed the 501 through S-Video to the PJ. Still, it is way too soft to watch for very long. I opt not to watch any SD Dish programming on the PJ and watch it on the 27" set where it looks very good.

As Nick posted, calibration is a TV's best freind and will go a long way to improving your PQ.

Actually, standard def programming can be watchable even on a screen that size.
If you use a good source like Analog C-band/4DTV and a great scaler/video processor like the Faroudja DVP-5000( http://www.dvdstore.at/far5000.htm ) then standard def programming can be ok on the eyes even on a screen that size.

[bdb]

I've heard people say that almost anything looks bad on a big screen - cable, D*, & E*. Currently, I have cable, and it looks REALLY bad (grainy, washed-out). I got on this board to see if I might want to switch to Dish, when the new stuff comes out. I saw D* on a friends Mits 48", and it looked great. I figure Dish should look about the same on my 51" Toshiba - am I dreaming?

DVDs and HDTV look awesome, but I can't stand to watch TV after paying almost two grand (plus $40/month). Something's just wrong there.

[jerryez]

Try not to be so critical of the SD picture. It will never look as good as a dvd or HD. Adjust your set and fine tune it as much as your can, be sure your brightness is set low. Get an Avia or Video Essentials disc and use them to fine tune the set and try to be more tolerant.

[Bill Mullin]

I figure Dish should look about the same on my 51" Toshiba - am I dreaming?Dish SD looks fine on my 50" widescreen Toshiba.

[Unthinkable]

Dish SD looks fine on my 50" widescreen Toshiba.

I have to wonder how many posters mentioning the horrible SD reception are staring at Sony TV sets with their own proprietary DRC (Digital Reality Creation) upscaler built in tailored primarily around showing off DVD's in their best possible light. I had an HD Sony set for a few days before realizing it wasn't up to the task of doing what the Toshiba sets do imo.

[DarrellP]

Dish SD is going to look fine on any direct view set since the largest made is a 38" 16:9 and that's just not big enough to really show the flaws of Dish's signal. Just for kicks, last night I was browsing through all of the Dish SD channels on my 6000, viewing at 110" diagonal and to me, the image is way too soft. I want to reach out and try to focus the projector but it is already focused.

The Dish signal is way too soft and until they can bump up the bandwidth it won't get any better. I would think in the next 4 to 5 years they are going to have to do something since more people are purchasing bigger widescreen sets and are very disappointed with the image they get from Dish, Directv & cable SD.

[Way193]

I think my 32" CRT is plenty big enough to show the flaws of Dish SD. The locals
look very bad. I have a projector also and I would never want to use it for Dish SD. I have 4dtv and it
looks ok on the projector,
so a good picture is possible if they don't over compress it. I have to use
a mini dish to get locals where I live so I hope they
address this problem.