Aspect ratio help [Archive]

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 02:37 PM

I have a 57" Hitachi analog set hooked to a 211 reciever. (Not the 211K). In the past I have always fed my outside antenna thru the 211 for digital conversion and recieved a fantastic 16:9 HD picture on all my locals. About a month ago when Dish included me in their local package, all my local channels now come in apparently 4:3 aspect. My TV is set to 16:9 as is my dish 211.
Now all my locals have to be watched in stretched mode to fill the screen or with black bars on the sides to watch in regular HD. The picture is significantly degraded compared to my inclusion in the local package. Watching football, the only way to see the scores at the top of screen in is with black sidebars.
Is there any other adjustments I can make to correct this?

garys

09-25-10, 03:07 PM

Is Dish supplying you with HD or sd on your local channels. HD would have HD logo in the guide.

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 03:56 PM

Well it looks like that may be my problem. There is no HD listed in the guide. Since I pay the extra $10 monthly for the HD200 package shouldn't I get my locals in HD?

n0qcu

09-25-10, 04:32 PM

Dish most likely doesn't have a retrans agreement with your locals so until such time as they get one you will only get them in SD from Dish. So watch the OTA versions for HD.

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 05:19 PM

Appreciate the replys. How can I watch the OTA version? I have to feed my antenna through the 211 for digital conversion, but every channel option I have for the locals including the local channel numbers come through as SD. Prior to Dish pushing the locals on me, I got great reception and pictures. Now they are lousy.
Do I have to purchase a seperate converter box now so I can watch what I used to get?

Stewart Vernon

09-25-10, 05:23 PM

If you have the antenna connected to your Dish receiver, you will then need to run a scan for the local channels.

They will then show up in the guide so you can view them in "All channels" or add them to a custom favorites list.

Have you done this to receive your OTA channels?

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 06:51 PM

Well I think I have resolved it. After chatting with Dish, he felt I wasn't getting the 129 satelite and wanted to send a technician out for $95. I just had him delete me from the local programming so I can go back to recieving the locals through my antenna. This is the arrangement I had up until a month ago and got great reception. I didn't want to spend more money to get channels I've gotten for the last three years for free.

scooper

09-25-10, 09:10 PM

GaryInTex -
You're cutting off your nose to spite your face.

There is NO REASON that you can't get the locals in satellite (even if only in SD) and still get your locals in OTA HD. In Fact - one GOOD reason to take them - you will get EPG data for the HD OTA channels, once you add the channels to your favorites list(s).

Now - there is also a good reason for the 129 dish - that is where most of the "cable" channels will be in HD. If you don't want them - that's your business. If you do, but you're balking at the $95 fee - well - there's a way to drastically reduce that - take the DHPP (Dish Home Protection Plan) - $6/month and the 129 install fee would be only $15.

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 11:02 PM

I'm not sure what channels are on 129, but surfing through the guide, every HD channel is still there and is rock solid reception. I find no difference from a month ago prior to receiving the locals from dish except for the locals themselves. Every channel that I ever watch is still there and solid. I'm not sure that I'm not actually recieving 129 or not as there is not any dropouts or missing channels.
I believe the real problem is that my locals from Tyler, Tx are not being sent by dish in an HD format. Would they tie up bandwidth from here to broadcast a SD and a HD broadcast? For a town of 100,000! I recieved the locals dish provided very well. It's just a very crappy and poor SD in 4:3 aspect.
A month ago I recieved crystal clear HD in 16:9 from the local stations through my antenna and converted to digital through the 211. Why should I tie up 1-3 days as happened in my last couple of service calls and pay dish $95 to correct a problem that I didn't have until dish forced the local coverage to my 211. I didn't request it and I'm not going to pay them more for something I don't need. Since I still have all my HD channels and was extremely happy with my local channels, I'll just revert to what I know will work without paying dish any more money to correct.

GaryInTex

09-25-10, 11:09 PM

To clarify my last comment, when my 211 was installed initially, the dish was moved and locked onto 110, 119, and 129. There has been no channel dropout or poor reception on any channel since then and I still recieve all the HD that I've always had.

n0qcu

09-25-10, 11:50 PM

Your OTA channel numbers in the guide will end with -01 and the satellite delivered locals will end with -00.

So to watch the OTA stations just make sure you are entering the correct number.
Example, for channel 7 you would enter 00701

James Long

09-26-10, 09:16 AM

I believe the real problem is that my locals from Tyler, Tx are not being sent by dish in an HD format.
Correct. Tyler is SD only. BUT all you need to do is connect your outdoor antenna that once connected directly to your TV set to the antenna input on the 211 (use a splitter if you want to also use the TV tuner).

After connecting the antenna to the 211 go into Menu-(System Setup)-(Local Channels) on the 211. Scan locals. It should find all of your local channels (or at least all that your antenna can see). If the installer did this there will already be a list of channels to the left.

If you know the actual RF channel (not the display channel but the actual RF channel) for a channel you are missing you can go in and add it under "Add Locals" but most don't know these channels.

Choose DONE and your channels will show up in the guide as "Digital Service". If you subscribe to locals via satellite you will get EPG data applied to those channels after the nightly update. Here are the channels you should see from Tyler. As these are received over the air quality is entirely dependent on your OTA antenna. (You may also be able to receive other channels from outside of your market depending on location and antenna.) The titles may vary depending on what your local stations are sending as a title.

7-01 KLTV
7-02 KLTV2
7-03 KLTV3
19-01 KYTX
19-02 KYTX2
19-03 KYTX3
51-01 KFXK
51-02 KFXK2
56-01 KETK
59-01 KERA

Having these channels via your receiver puts them all in one place. You can set auto tune events and reminders on any channel and see everything in one guide instead of turning off the satellite box and using the TV tuner and it's OTA guide for OTA broadcasts. But that is your choice.

Back in the day before my locals were available in SD and I had a SD only receiver I found myself missing many OTA programs because they were not in my guide. Turning back and forth between regular TV and satellite TV meant I missed things. I believe it is worth the $5 per month to have a combined guide and I'm surprised that DISH is giving you a choice. With locals available in all markets it was my understanding that once added locals could not be removed ... they are part of your base package. But if you can remove them it is yur choice.

harsh

09-26-10, 10:04 AM

If you have the antenna connected to your Dish receiver, you will then need to run a scan for the local channels.No scan should be necessary if the OP was already receiving the channels. They simply need to take the time to find the OTA versions in the guide.

I'm thinking the best solution would be to use a favorites guide when changing channels.

msbwo

09-26-10, 10:16 AM

I signed up for my locals in the Charlotte, N.C. area. When they did the upgrade, I only had the SD channels. When I called Dish, I was told I would have to upgrade to a bigger dish. I am on the 110,119,129 setup. I told them they should have told me that up front. I had the locals removed and continue to use my OTA antenna.

GaryInTex

09-26-10, 10:58 AM

Correct. Tyler is SD only. BUT all you need to do is connect your outdoor antenna that once connected directly to your TV set to the antenna input on the 211 (use a splitter if you want to also use the TV tuner).

James- This is how I've had my antenna hooked up the last 3 years. The HD signal sent out from the locals was converted to digital and fed directly to the TV in 16:9 HD. When dish forced the locals on me, the same channel numbers I've been watching are now a very poor SD in 4:3. I did not change anything on my end. These same channels are also on the 8800 series channels now so I get get each of these channels in two different places with the same lousy picture.
My reciever had already been scanned to recieve the locals on their proper digital number (019-01, 007-01,etc.). Last nights online chat with dish, the Tech CSR said that he would remove the locals from my package in about 10 minutes and as of this morning it's still there. So I get watch football again in glorious 4:3 fuzzy SD with the picture stretched instead of the 16:9 1080i that the local station is broadcasting it in.
I don't know why it is apparently so hard for dish just to delete my forced locals and let me recieve the HD I bought the TV for. I think I'll be better off just getting a cheap converter box and feed my antenna through it instead of begging dish to do something. I'm just not going to watch a blurry lousy picture because of dish and their inability to help a customer.

scooper

09-26-10, 11:21 AM

It ISN'T hard - apparently you and msbwo are having problems figuring out how to operate your receivers. This isn't anything Dish needs to do - these are clear cases of "Read The Manual".

GaryInTex

09-26-10, 11:36 AM

So if the signal being provided by Dish is being converted from HD 16:9 to SD 4:3 it's my fault? What is the page number in my manual to correct that?

scooper

09-26-10, 11:43 AM

The problem is as James just said - figure out how to integrate your OTA stations along with the SD DBS provided locals.

Start by adding your OTA signal to the OTA in port on the Dish receiver. Then go into the setup to scan for OTA locals, and tell the system to include these in your listings.

You don't have to disconnect your TV as well - using a splitter would let you put OTA to both.

If you have a VIP 722K or an VIP 222K and you do not have the seperately available OTA module, I apologize for being out of line.

Stewart Vernon

09-26-10, 11:51 AM

No scan should be necessary if the OP was already receiving the channels. They simply need to take the time to find the OTA versions in the guide.

I'm thinking the best solution would be to use a favorites guide when changing channels.

From reading the thread, it seems pretty clear that the OP hadn't scanned the OTA channels in his receiver... OR he somehow forgot how to tune to those channels, because some of what he is saying simply isn't possible...

IF he had already scanned them on the Dish receiver, then adding/removing the Dish-supplied locals wouldn't have had any effect at all on his xx-1, xx-2 etc. OTA channels.

It seems like the OP either doesn't understand what we are saying or doesn't want to integrate his OTA reception with his Dish receiver... because it sure doesn't sound like he has tried it based on his replies thus far.

GaryInTex

09-26-10, 01:04 PM

I have scanned for locals several times in the past. Last night they were scanned twice again. For the first time last night though, 3 of the 4 locals were unable to find signal, even though 1 did and I recieve it correctly now. At the same time my small tv in another room with rabbit ear antenna was continously recieving all the local signals. It is not fed through any recievers, just a converter box.
I have not unhooked or made any changes to any of the equipment on the main tv and the antenna outside has not changed position. I have made no changes to either the tv or the dish reciever and the problem only started after Dish sent my locals out. So why would 019-1, 051-1, and 056-1 no longer work after 3 years of working correctly and me having made no changes to anything?

Also my reciever is the VIP 211, not the 211K.

James Long

09-26-10, 01:15 PM

James- This is how I've had my antenna hooked up the last 3 years. The HD signal sent out from the locals was converted to digital and fed directly to the TV in 16:9 HD. When dish forced the locals on me, the same channel numbers I've been watching are now a very poor SD in 4:3.The only channels that change when you add locals are the -00 channels and the high numbered channels (7000-9000 range for SD).

Adding locals via satellite does not prevent one from seeing their local OTA channels via the -01, -02, -03 etc channels. Period.

My reciever had already been scanned to recieve the locals on their proper digital number (019-01, 007-01,etc.). Last nights online chat with dish, the Tech CSR said that he would remove the locals from my package in about 10 minutes and as of this morning it's still there. So I get watch football again in glorious 4:3 fuzzy SD with the picture stretched instead of the 16:9 1080i that the local station is broadcasting it in.

I don't know why it is apparently so hard for dish just to delete my forced locals and let me recieve the HD I bought the TV for. I think I'll be better off just getting a cheap converter box and feed my antenna through it instead of begging dish to do something. I'm just not going to watch a blurry lousy picture because of dish and their inability to help a customer.Quite frankly, we can't figure out why it is so hard to tune to the -01 channel that has the same HD feeds that you had before DISH got involved.

Do the -01 channels appear in your guide? They should be there in yellow. The only ways of not having them there is 1) if you're using a favorites list that has them excluded, 2) you have intentionally locked out the channels or 3) the channels are not scanned in under Menu-6-8 Local Channels.

If you want to remove the SD via satellite channels you can go in to Menu-6-8, select Chan Display and select "Disable" under Local Sat Channels. If you do this then typing the two digit channel number and waiting will take you to the -01 channel (via OTA) instead of the -00 channel (via satellite).

James Long

09-26-10, 01:18 PM

So why would 019-1, 051-1, and 056-1 no longer work after 3 years of working correctly and me having made no changes to anything?If the hints and tips in this thread don't help perhaps you will need to pay the $95 or get a local dealer or antenna installer who is familiar with antennas and DISH equipment to help you out.

scooper

09-26-10, 01:58 PM

Sounds to me like we have a distinct case of inadequate antenna/signal for the Dish OTA tuner to work well.

Stewart Vernon

09-26-10, 06:31 PM

I have not unhooked or made any changes to any of the equipment on the main tv and the antenna outside has not changed position.

Have you had any weather that could have knocked your outside antenna out of alignment? Or checked the antenna connection to make sure nothing is wrong?

As James said, nothing about adding or removing locals would change your ability to get OTA on your Dish receiver... so something definitely has happened.

Do you have an in-line amplifier on your OTA antenna? If so, that's another part to check and make sure it is working properly.

GaryInTex

09-26-10, 09:25 PM

Here is perhaps a little more info. I spent some time this afternoon climbing the antenna mast and checking the connections down to the receiver and than to the tv. Did not find any issues at all. My local channels are listed in my guide info with the yellow band as they have been but 3 of the 4 channels now just show offair signal has been lost. The one channel that still comes in is from a very large tower that is only 3 miles from here and is in clear line of sight. It's signal is strong enough that I've had tvs in the past recieve that channel without any antenna.
I then took the converter box and rabbit ears from another room and hooked to main tv directly on a different input bypassing the 211. It brought in clear and strong signals on all 4 channels in HD. Without moving the antenna, I unhooked the antenna cable from the converter box and hooked it to the 211antenna port. The 3 channels continued to show offair signal lost. I wonder if it's possible that the pass through in the 211 has gone bad causing the problems.
Since James has confirmed that these locals for me are only redelivered by Dish in SD I think I will simply leave the converter box hooked to the tv on seperate input from the 211 and watch them in HD.

GaryInTex

09-26-10, 09:32 PM

Have you had any weather that could have knocked your outside antenna out of alignment? Or checked the antenna connection to make sure nothing is wrong?

As James said, nothing about adding or removing locals would change your ability to get OTA on your Dish receiver... so something definitely has happened.

Do you have an in-line amplifier on your OTA antenna? If so, that's another part to check and make sure it is working properly.

Stewart- When I checked the mast today for all the connections. I had originally marked all my aligments on the mast and they were still in line with my marks.

I don't have a in-line amplifier but I had run the antenna cable to a surge protector 3 years ago. I unhooked that connection and ran the cable direct to the 211 but it didn't change anything.

knot

09-27-10, 06:57 AM

I had a similar situation when i hooked my ota to a 222. My tv tuner does an excellent job for ota, but the dish receiver does not.

scooper

09-27-10, 08:14 AM

Converter box is NOT going to be HD anymore than getting the locals over the dish, although the converter box may do better on picture quality.

GaryInTex

09-27-10, 09:23 AM

Converter box is NOT going to be HD anymore than getting the locals over the dish, although the converter box may do better on picture quality.

Since the local stations broadcast in HD and the converter box provides that signal to the TV but Dish only provides SD for these locals, I disagree. Flipping between the two sources it is pretty clear.

Stewart Vernon

09-27-10, 11:39 AM

DustoMan

09-27-10, 01:46 PM

I suppose it is possible you could have a failing/failed OTA tuner in your Dish receiver. The only way to know that would be to have another Dish receiver to swap out with it...

IF you've checked all your connections, and used the same connections on a non-Dish receiver... that's about the only idea left I think.

That's what I'm kinda thinking too. Maybe the DTV tuner on his 211 bit the big one and it just happened to have occurred around when DISH added local channels to his account. Cause I know the quality of tuners in receivers vary from model to model and brand to brand, but it's not usually that drastic.

While it's not necessary to receive those OTA channels on his big TV, it's just a much cleaner installation to have those channels fed in through the receiver for the reason other people have mentioned. (Guide info, timers, etc.) And who knows if this problem receiving an OTA signal won't progress into a more serious issue with the receiver in the near future. Best to get it fixed now while you can still watch satellite and not later when the whole system is down. And then you can always use that converter box as a backup or on another TV in the house.

scooper

09-27-10, 02:03 PM

I've been exchanging PMs with Gary - and that's pretty much my conclusion as well - the OTA tuner in his 211 looks to be dying/ dead.

James Long

09-27-10, 02:52 PM

I've been exchanging PMs with Gary - and that's pretty much my conclusion as well - the OTA tuner in his 211 looks to be dying/ dead.
Thanks for your help ... it is certainly a confusing situation for us with working boxes.

GaryInTex

09-27-10, 04:32 PM

I want to thank all the folks helping to diagnois this issue. Had these issues come about at time when no other changes where made, it would have been much more simple to figure out the problem. But when they came about at the same time as Dish made changes to my system certainly complicated the issues. Once again thanks to everyone for the help.

Stewart Vernon

09-27-10, 05:24 PM

You're welcome... It is a truly odd coincidence when one thing fails right after you change something else.

I haven't had an OTA tuner fail... but I had a SAT tuner on a receiver fail a few years ago... and it was sort of weird in the way it began failing... though once it failed completely all doubt was removed as to what the problem was.

GaryInTex

09-28-10, 05:14 PM

UPDATE!!!!! Situation completely resolved.

Last night I had emailed Tech support since their online chat was unavailable. This afternoon I recieved an email back to do the same things already done several times. (rescan, unplug reciever, check connection) I turned on the set this evening and when I brought up the guide I noticed that while my local digitals were still yellow in the left hand column, all the items in the main column were green as I scrolled through the menu. Prior to today they were always blue as each of the channels were scrolled. I selected my digital local numbers 007-1, 019-1, 056-1, etc and there they were. Back in local HD 16:9 and a wonderful picture. Last night I had checked my system info and noted my software was L5.60. Today I checked after finding my channels back and I am now on L5.61. I had given up and not done anything else to my system and the software update was the only change.
Apparently the whole issue was software and that is why issue came up at the same time as Dish started sending my locals through. Unfortunately neither time I contacted Dish tech, no one ever suggested software.
Thanks again for all the effort. Gary