View Full Version : Grounding...am I taking a BIG chance?
I have installed my dish on a screened in porch on the 3rd floor of a building. The signal strength is great and I have no other choice for location of the dish.
My problem is that I have no way to ground the dish, other than maybe trying to use the ground from an outlet. I seriously doubt that wire guage is adequate. In fact I would be concerned that I could potentially cause more problems by attempting to use an outlet ground.
HELP!!
Richssat
09-10-03, 10:18 AM
Don't use the outlet as a ground. This is not to code and could be potentially dangerous (monkeying with electrical outlets). Plus if there is ever any sort of electrical fire in the building they may see your set up and leave you open for blame.
If you are really concerned about grounding the dish then go buy a good quality surge protector with coax pass thru. Make sure it is rated for satellite since not all of them allow the voltage from the receiver to pass thru the protector to the LNB.
A subject of much debate amongst the satellite community but I will never ground a dish or coax to an electrical outlet. Some would say since it is not grounded you shouldn't have it at all.
Rich
Are you saying that if the dish cannot be grounded I should not have the dish installed at all? I suppose I could disconnect it when we are not at the condo. It is just a pain to re-align it all the time. . . .guess that is better than being struck by lightning!
I have installed my dish on a screened in porch on the 3rd floor of a building. The signal strength is great and I have no other choice for location of the dish.
My problem is that I have no way to ground the dish, other than maybe trying to use the ground from an outlet. I seriously doubt that wire guage is adequate. In fact I would be concerned that I could potentially cause more problems by attempting to use an outlet ground.
HELP!!You *must* ground the dish. The reason for grounding is not so much to protect your receiver from possible damage, but to protect humans who may come in contact with the dish against electrocution if your receiver somehow shoots 120VAC out to the dish. Especially when the dish is located someplace like a porch where it's easily touched by people.
As was mentioned, you can't just plug into a grounded outlet, but you *may* be able to obtain a legal ground from the ground circuit inside the outlet box. I'm not sure exactly what would work in your circumstances, but I believe that the ground conductor (or the shield, if it's a grounded metal shield) can be tapped for this purpose. Anyone more familiar with the NEC able to say?
No kidding, though, don't fool around. Ground the dish soon. You would be legally liable for any damage or injury if anything happened. The odds might be low, but the consequences are very bad.
x
waydwolf
09-10-03, 08:26 PM
The reason for grounding is to discourage a lightning strike by maintaining the same electrical potential as everything else and not accumulating charge which might lead to streamers, circuit closure, kaboom! It is an NEC requirement and the National Electrical Code promulgated by the National Fire Protection Association is where local electrical codes START. It MUST be grounded by law. Consult an electrician on how to get a ground strap to the apartment ground.
Note: it CANNOT be to its own ground rod. If you did that, there might be a difference in potentials and that could cause a receiver with a fault to have its current go to that rod instead of the building ground which means through anything along those lines like you if you were touching it.
Ground ISN'T something to monkey with.
AllieVi
09-11-03, 07:23 AM
The reason for grounding is to discourage a lightning strike by maintaining the same electrical potential as everything else and not accumulating charge which might lead to streamers, circuit closure, kaboom!
This requirement would easily be met by grounding to an existing outlet. The size of wire required would not even be large since charge accumulation does not involve large currents.
Of course, if lightning ever DOES strike the dish you'd want something better...
The question we have been discussing is for a condo we recently purchased. Currently, my dish at home is grounded by a connection of the RG6 through a grounding block. Since the LNB is does not touch metal to metal with the dish itself, the dish is really not grounded, just the LNB. I would suspect everyone's DISH is not grounded just the LNB. I thoroughly understand and agree that grounding is very important, just not sure what has to be grounded and to what degree.
I appreciate your comments!
Doug
Mike500
09-11-03, 09:43 AM
To ground a Dish500 with a plastic "Y" adapter, just fasten a dual grounding block to the mast with two small self drilling screws. Then, fasten the coax to the grounding block. This way, the dish is grounded along with the coax.
Using an Ohm meter there is no resistance between the shield connection of the coax and the metal of the dish. Try it. Thus if you are using a grounding box for the coax, you are grounding the dish. Not to code but it would prevent any charge build up and protect from reverse voltage from the receiver. It wouldn't protect against lightning, to the contrary it probably would provide a path for lightning to get to your receiver. Even if your dish has an separate ground installed to code, chances are lighting is also going to be traveling along the coax. The best advice is don't make your dish the highest point on your dwelling.
The question we have been discussing is for a condo we recently purchased. Currently, my dish at home is grounded by a connection of the RG6 through a grounding block. Since the LNB is does not touch metal to metal with the dish itself, the dish is really not grounded, just the LNB. I would suspect everyone's DISH is not grounded just the LNB. I thoroughly understand and agree that grounding is very important, just not sure what has to be grounded and to what degree.
I appreciate your comments!
Doug
Check your local code, it may be permissable to ground to an outlet, raceway or metal box or a cold water pipe. Or it may not, it depends on your code.
The dish should be grounded as well as the cable, usually with #10 copper ground wire. There may not be a sufficient grounding path between the coax and LNB to also ground the metal part of the dish.
The ground is for safety reasons, to protect against shock and to dissipate static charges which can draw a strike or damage equipment.
It is possible to buy RG6 which includes a separate grounding conducting, if it is a matter of convenience running the ground wire.
Best bet, do it now and then you don't need to worry about it again.
I just hung my dish yesterday and the ground run is on both the dish and the grounding blocks.
The question we have been discussing is for a condo we recently purchased. Currently, my dish at home is grounded by a connection of the RG6 through a grounding block. Since the LNB is does not touch metal to metal with the dish itself, the dish is really not grounded, just the LNB. I would suspect everyone's DISH is not grounded just the LNB. I thoroughly understand and agree that grounding is very important, just not sure what has to be grounded and to what degree.
I appreciate your comments!
Doug
DIRECT Rules
09-21-03, 11:39 PM
You people are stupid. Freaking out just because there ain't no ground wire.
Like Ergen gives two sh**s if a Dish is grounded. Accurately speaking, only about 20% or less of all Dish Network installs across the country are probably grounded, including those by EchoStar's own installation company, ...and I don't think it is that big of a problem either!
Edited for content. ND
Maybe not, but national electric code, and arguably every local code in the country dictates the dish be grounded in a particular manner.
It certainly won't hurt to ground it.
Geronimo
09-22-03, 04:22 PM
I don't think that anyone's concerns about grounding were related to Mr. Ergen's reaction.
sae-phi-alpha
09-23-03, 12:46 AM
Well........as a first time responder, it seems this site is alot "talk radio". In which I thoroughly enjoy! It seems everybody has an opinion...and some real anal opinions, at best. And on this one i can't resist. So regarding the NEC Code on grounding, here's mine.........Coddddeeee???...... Smowddddeee???? Who's checking? Mount the darn dish on the balcony! Run the Coax straight to the receiver! Turn it on! And Forgettttt Abouttttt Itttttt!!!! If lightning is going to hit your house I bet the dish wasn't it's beaker!! And if lightning does hit, you got other problems to worry about! And one of those isn't "HHHMMMMMM, DID I GROUND THE DISH OR NOT BEFORE THAT BOLT LIT ME UP LIKE A ROCKET?" A direct lightning hit, most likely, is going to travel down and into your house any convenite way it wants! It will have lots of choices one being your chimney. Even if you unplugged the tv from the wall socket, lightning could still arc across and still blow the tv! To much grounding can evenly attract lighning! So, unless your ant is 50' above the house, in my opinion i wouldn't ground it. In this case, it's a waste of time and would be very unsightly for you and your neighbors. Ugly cabling, like having to run a ground wire to the ground when the receiver's path is not that route, can make a beautiful, custom install look like crap! And these same anal people who are commenting about the NEC Codes are also the same people who are elected to your Home Owners Assocciation that will be the one to tell you to take it down your ruining the neighborhood. If your worried about lightning buy some Homeowner's Insurance, make sure lightning is covered. Or buy a surge protector that guarantees to pay a certain amount of $$$$$$ if lightning damages items while plugged to it. And in the meantime, when it's lightning outside..... and it seems rreeeaaaalllllll close......... Please, stay off the phone......out of the tub.....away from any window...........AND PLEASE DON"T GO NEAR THE DISH!!!!!
Richard King
09-23-03, 06:39 AM
Or buy a surge protector that guarantees to pay a certain amount of $$$$$$ if lightning damages items while plugged to it. If you read the terms of the insurance policy attached to these devices you will see that the systems that are plugged into the surge protector must be grounded per the NEC to validate the policy. If not grounded the insurance is useless and will not be honored.
So regarding the NEC Code on grounding, here's mine.........Coddddeeee???...... Smowddddeee????You probably drive with a 6-pack on your lap, too.
If your dish isn't grounded and somebody gets electrocuted, you go to jail.
If your dish isn't grounded and it causes a fire that burns down a building (and maybe kills a few kids), you go to jail.
But these are small risks compared with the tremendous convenience of not having to be bothered with grounding.
Folks like you may be interested to know that the H2 is now available with a beer-holder where the turn signal lever used to be.
x
If lightning is going to hit your house I bet the dish wasn't it's beaker!!
....To much grounding can evenly attract lighning!
Uhh, no. You are completely ignorant of lightning and grounding and probably electricity in general in the first place.
Proper grounding greatly *reduces* the likelihood of a lightning strike in the first place. That's why the dish should be grounded, to draw off the static charges BEFORE the lightning hits it. A static charge, which can and does happen to ungrounded antennas, that can blow the front end of your receiver, cause reception problems and any number of other unpleasant effects.
If you should experience a strike, even an indirect one nearby, the grounding will at least help to dissipate the charge and minimize the damage.
The other reason is to make sure the exposed dish and wiring are not going to pose a shock hazzard to humans. If for some reason the mains power "hot" side leaks or crosses to the dish wiring, the whole thing becomes a shock hazzard. Since it is also outside where it gets wet and is usually low-enough for a human to contact, that's a very real possibility. Such crossings are not as ususual as one might hope either.
I had one happen to me a few years ago. I had an old bit of stereo equipment hooked up in my system. The amplifier had a capacitor crossing one of the mains lines to the chassis of the amp, a very common practice in older equipment. The capacitor failed, got leaky and energised the entire rack of A/V equipment and everything connected to it. Luckily, it was discovered before anyone got hurt.
If the same thing happened with an ungrounded dish - and someone happened to touch it while standing on wet ground, the resulting shock could have easily caused injury or worse.
This kind of stuff happens a LOT more than people think. When I was in school, I worked in a TV shop. This was about the time when chassis were being directly connected to the AC line (still are by the way). Exposed parts like antenna jacks and RCA plugs had to be isolated from the chassis. More than a few of these antenna isolators failed, causing AC leakage. I've seen a few instances of the CATV lead line actually damaged by the heat.
....Ugly cabling, like having to run a ground wire to the ground when the receiver's path is not that route, can make a beautiful, custom install look like crap!
Ohh, well by all means, do your "beautiful custom install" and enjoy yourself. Wouldn't want to upset the gorgeous look of coaxial cabling and matching matte-grey dish with one more ugly bit of wiring. :crosseyes:
If you are doing installations for other people like this, I hope you carry a good negligence policy. Out of a few hundred installs, it is quite likely one of them is going to suffer damage or perhaps an exposure of hazardous voltage.
To the guy with the dish on his balcony: Probably nothing will happen if the dish is left ungrounded. If all you can do is ground it to the nearest outlet, then that might be the best thing you can do.
vBulletin® v3.7.6, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.