Thinking Of Becoming A DirecTV Customer...A Few Questions

[debor]

Hello Everyone,

I posted the message below on the Dish Board and was wondering the same from some of you. Are you happy with your DirecTV service, has anyone moved from DISH to Direct and been happy/unhappy, etc. I look foward to reading some of your thoughts.

Thanks in Advance,

Jonathan



ORIGINAL MESSAGE

Hello Everyone,

I have not posted in a while, but actively monitor the board and was hoping for some advice. I have been a DISH customer for about 5 years and have been pleased for the most part. Now that I am ready to go HDTV, I am thinking of all my options and considering leaving DISH. It has just gotten to me...the lack of any organization, the delays in products, etc. Even with the 6000 promotion, I as many of you had, called today three times and received three different answers/offers. It just seems so unprofessional. Then I look over at DirecTV, which I swore I would never have and that DISH was always superior. PVR is a must for me, and even though I have a 508 & 501 now, I know that someday, when they fail, they will be replaced with something that has a monthly cost. If I am paying a cost, it might as well be something built with the TIVO technology, which is much more stable than anything DISH has offered. Then I see the multiple suppliers that DirecTV hardware can be purchased from, and even though I can't believe I am saying this, it looks to be a much better system and service.

I trust the opinions and facts of the members of this board more than anything else out there, so I will ask you to offer your advice and/or suggestions if you don't mind. What are your thoughts, and along those lines, is DISH far more advanced/ready to bring HDTV at the best quality than DirecTV is? I don't know if I will purchase a HDTV receiver at first, but I want the technology to be there. Lastly, with DirecTV for sale, is Hughes the parent company that is trying to sell it, and once it does, there will no longer be Hughes branded equipment, or is Hughes another manufacture such as RCA, etc.

Thanks in advance,

Jonathan

[boba]

Jonathan as a Directv/DISH dealer I would suggest waiting till mid November and see how things shake out. Right now DISH has a lot of promises out there lets give them a chance to deliver.
Ruppert Murdock is buying Directv from General Motors.

[dennispe]

"Right now DISH has a lot of promises out there lets give them a chance to deliver."

WTF?! how long do you think everyone should wait? Dish will always have a lot of promises out there. As a dealer (unbiased?) why would it matter to you anyway?

Johnathan, you already have a handle on Dish's management practices. I had Dish for 4 years and recently jumped, like many others here, and have NO regrets.

[pez2002]

"Right now DISH has a lot of promises out there lets give them a chance to deliver."

WTF?! how long do you think everyone should wait? Dish will always have a lot of promises out there. As a dealer (unbiased?) why would it matter to you anyway?

Johnathan, you already have a handle on Dish's management practices. I had Dish for 4 years and recently jumped, like many others here, and have NO regrets.



I know what you mean :) :eek2:


Is it true that once a dish Sub Allways a dish Subcriber

[Mike D-CO5]

Well I've been with Dish since they began in 96 and I also have Directv now and in two more months I'm cutting off Directv and staying with Dish. So I guess it's true once a Dish sub always a Dish Sub.

[Novice]

Mike d-C05, you don't say why you are leaving Directv. I'm leaning towards Directv and would appreciate your reasons if you care to tell us.

[Mike123abc]

"Right now DISH has a lot of promises out there lets give them a chance to deliver."

WTF?! how long do you think everyone should wait? Dish will always have a lot of promises out there. As a dealer (unbiased?) why would it matter to you anyway?

Johnathan, you already have a handle on Dish's management practices. I had Dish for 4 years and recently jumped, like many others here, and have NO regrets.

Lets see for the 3 month wait Dish delivers 2 new satellites (121 and 105). I do not see a way for DirecTV to deliver more HDTV than Dish. They are now behind in CONUS transponders by 68 transponder. Yes, Dish now has 114 CONUS transponders to DirecTV's 46. Dish of course still has 52 wing transponders.

Yes Dish announced the plans for SuperDish 4-5 months ago. DirecTV has had months to respond and still has not. I would be far more worried about DirecTVs capacity at this time.

[Mike D-CO5]

Mike d-C05, you don't say why you are leaving Directv. I'm leaning towards Directv and would appreciate your reasons if you care to tell us.


I am not a sports fan so that's one reason. Another I don't like the disorganized guide with the news channels all over the place and the variety channels hear and there everywhere. The guide is also full of logos and interactive crap I don't need.

I have had Dish longer and perfer them in the fact that they have more premium movie channels and better packages pricing. I am getting the top Americas Everything pack with locals for $79.99 . The same pack for Directv is like $89.00 , I think. I can also get the superstations with WB and UPN since I can't get them ota. Another reason why is where I have my service address I can get 2 distant networks as well as my locals all for a neat pack price of $11.99.

I only took Directv because it was free and free install and they offered free NFL season ticket games for the rest of the year last fall. My wife likes the football games believe it or not. I am a big Movie fan and series tv watcher. I have nothing against Directv personally . Their Direct Tivos are suppossed to be the bomb. Way cheaper than Dish two tuner receiver but with smaller hard drives. If you ever try to disconnect with Directv they will offer you the sun and the moon to keep you which is the epitome of good customer retention practices.

I just tried Directv to see the three channels I wasn't getting with Dish because Charlie said we didn't need them due to repetiton of channels already on Dish and because they were asking to much for transmission cost. After seeing these three channels , Charlie was right I could have lived with out them ( Trio , Oxygen, PBS KIDS) I also perfer Dish's picture quality over Directv . But that is really subjective and up to the individual viewer.

Really I guess I am invested emotionally with Dish . I had them since the begining, and I like and admire Charlie Ergan due to his diligence for the customer and he introduced local in to local service in the first place. I also like Dish's guides , their receivers ( except the original dishplayer ) Even though people gripe and bitch about the bugs and problems , I have not had that many problems with my receivers. At least nothing I couldn't work around . I guess I am loyal to them and I think the future for Dish and Hdtv is bright.

But all in all either sat service provider will work for you . If you like sports than Directv is the way to go if you want NFL season ticket . Almost all the other sports are on Dish ,except this one which is exclusive to Directv. If you like to receive more premium channels and superstations and more hdtv channels in the future( Dish has the capacity to do 50 hdtv channels in the near future), than Dish would be your choice.

Try Directv you can always try Dish later when your commitment to them is up. But what ever you do make sure you get the BEST deal for equipment you can get ( DVR receivers) , because you are only a new subscriber once with each company . Make the most of the opportunity and Good luck with your decision. :)

[Marcus S]

There are many variables to consider.

If you are interested in $40 to $52 mo programming cost w/locals, an E* 150 experience less public access channels, and/or interested in NFL ticket, then you may be more interested in *D. If you are interested in $70+ and premium programming add ons, you will save a few $'s staying with *E.

Standalone receivers = *D numerous manuf to choose from and PVR like features, Interactive TV, Universal remote that controls DVD players, very good up-converting to component video or DVI. E* does a poor job up-converting on the 6000, basic no thrill EPG and features. You will have to wait to see what the 811 delivers, a known company history of buggy product releases taking 6+ mo's to fix while introducing new bugs along the way.

TIVO = most who have had both, and several discussions on this board favor TIVO over E* PVR. However, E* PVR 501/508/510 has no additional mo service charge day one, except the standard $4.99 mo 2nd receiver fee. Alternately, you can purchase a lifetime TIVO subscription which eliminates mo fee and covers all TIVO's in your house. Neither E* or TIVO plan to offer lifetime HD-DVR's subscriptions.

E* DVR = E* has announced their new DVR's will have a service charge "if" you subscribe to anything less than the Everything Pak. Below that, additional service charges will apply on top of the 2nd receiver fee and is scalable based on the programming tier and is on a per DVR basis.

HDTV Programming = Depends if you feel HD is equivalent to the value of NFL ticket. Both *D & E* will level out with what I "predict" is a basic 7 to 10 channel HD pak containing what both offer today, plus Bravo-HD, and one or two additional HD channels. Premium movie HD channels will still require subscription to HBO, Cinemax, Showtime, Starz. I suspect the additional HD channels that E* plans to offer will be additional premium paks @ $9.99+ x your comfort level or subscribe to 2, 3, all, I am sure you will get discounts. *D will be adding bandwidth in Jan. Additional locals planned will not impact the capacity to add additional programming including HD on conus.

HDTV to the max = An interesting war will insue between E* and Cablevision, however the reality may be that the investment does not return the subscriber base they hoped for. If Cable Vision plans to offer 20+ HD channels, 30 SDTV channels at $49.95 less locals, could we assume E* / *D could charge the same on top of your current programming package costs when they come up to speed for the same "max" experience.

*D / New Corp Merger. Rupert has already made several positive announcements of recent, including keeping programming costs to subscribers in-line and competitive with competition, believes DVR fee's impede subscriber growth, but speculation at this point. News Corp Sky has excellent consumer ratings abroad. At least, a positive sign.

[Mark Holtz]

Basically, it was the DVR fee that pushed this AT-150 subscriber to DirecTV. I was hoping to obtain the DVR510, but when announced a fee, I decided to jump. IMHO, the software on DishDVR is not equivelent to the software on the DirecTivo for the monthly fee.

It is true that the DirecTivo has a puny 40GB hard drive. However, I'm eyeing two 160GB hard drives which, when installed, will give me 274GB of storage, or around 240 hours of recording time. Dish, however, intentionally made their DVRs so that the hard drive non-upgradable. If you worked with computers, I'm told that the upgrade is simple. There are also companies that will upgrade your Tivo for a fee.

HDTV is not a consideration for me at this point.

[GreyGhost00]

Lets see for the 3 month wait Dish delivers 2 new satellites (121 and 105). I do not see a way for DirecTV to deliver more HDTV than Dish. They are now behind in CONUS transponders by 68 transponder. Yes, Dish now has 114 CONUS transponders to DirecTV's 46. Dish of course still has 52 wing transponders.

Yes Dish announced the plans for SuperDish 4-5 months ago. DirecTV has had months to respond and still has not. I would be far more worried about DirecTVs capacity at this time.

I won't get into an argument about technologies, but both services have enough capacity to do whatever they want. Dish's "potential" has been just that for years. The capacity thing is *way* overblown.

Make your choice on what is available NOW, not future potential.

[cnsf]

It is true that the DirecTivo has a puny 40GB hard drive. However, I'm eyeing two 160GB hard drives which, when installed, will give me 274GB of storage, or around 240 hours of recording time.

Mark,

There may be a 137GB limit on the HDs DirecTivo can accept. Go for the 120GB pair to be sure. Check the TivoCommunity forum just to be sure.

If I'm wrong, better for you, but at least you're sure.

[cnsf]

My strategy was this.....

Had Dish, dumped it because I waited for them for a year and a half to get the YES Network and decent locals PQ. Never happened.

Jumped ship, and made money on the deal by auctioning off my E* equipment on eBay.

Got three DirecTivos and have no regrets. There are things I miss like the faster Guide, Caller ID and the Manage Shows function. The Tivo, overall, is a far superior unit and the upgrades were easy. I just bought one good HD and used some spares I had for the other two.

Locals PQ is much better.

I plan to leverage cable for HDTV when it's time as they will have more bandwidth than satellite ever could. The other option is the HD Tivo and use combined OTA signals (probably what I will do in the end).

Regardless, E* has gone to "heck in a handbasket". I am completely satisfied with D*.

I am also waiting for HDTV prices to come down and produce native 1080i sets. No plasma can do this now (I don't think) and the DLPs are still new. Not worth the cost at this point for a few measly channels.

I'd rather buy a jetski.

[Mike Richardson]

I plan to leverage cable for HDTV when it's time as they will have more bandwidth than satellite ever could. The other option is the HD Tivo and use combined OTA signals (probably what I will do in the end).

(BEGIN SPECULATION)

How do you determine that?

Could someone answer, an analog SD channel takes 6 MHz correct? You can fit about 10 digital SD channels into one analog area. So a digital SD channel would be about 0.6MHz?

Based on this reasoning a 750 MHz cable system not counting any cable internet, telephony, etc, services, could sustain 1,250 digital SD channels? 125 analog channels?

HDTV I believe was made to fit into the same space as an analog channel, 6 MHz. So that's 125 HD channels.

But the average system has to carry, approximately, 150 digital channels and about 70 analog channels. 510 MHz.

Let's load on some HD channels. We'll say, big 4 locals, PBS, HDNet, HDNet Movies, Disc HD, ESPN HD, and another channel which may be HD PPV, HD Sports, HD Event, whatever. 570 MHz.

180 MHz left over for cable internet, telephony, whatever else, and future expansion.

[cnsf]

Well, that trumps me for a rebuttal. I am just basing it on just about everything I've read on the subject.

This is the first time I've heard satellite could have more bandwidth for HDTV than cable.

[Mike123abc]

Actually cable blows away satellite as far as carrying capacity. The most up to date cable companies use 256QAM for their digital data (older ones use 64QAM ancient ones use 16QAM).

Using 256QAM a cable company can get 40Mbit/sec through a 6MHZ channel... This is actually enough for 2 HDTV channels. If they use the same compression as DBS they would get 15 standard definition channels per analog channel.

A modern cable system 750MHZ and a lot are being upgraded to 1GHZ. 750 can do 250HDTV channels, 1GHZ can do 330 HDTV channels!

Add to this the fact that cable only has to carry one set of local channels (DBS is splitting up the bandwith to try to cover local channels over 100+ markets), and you can see Cable has the big advantage.

What is DBS advantage? Most cable companies are not being agressive about using their bandwith to kill DBS off like they could. Plus DBS works the same everywhere and there are a lot of really bad Cable companies out there. If cable companies thought they could wipe out DBS with HDTV they would be doing it, but they know most customers do not care about HDTV (well would not want to pay for it).

[cnsf]

If cable companies thought they could wipe out DBS with HDTV they would be doing it, but they know most customers do not care about HDTV (well would not want to pay for it).

Mike, thanks for making me sane again.

As for HDTV, until it's mainstream, or less expensive, I personally won't go for it and I'm sure I reflect the view of most cost-conscious prosumers.

Give me the selection, then I will consider investing in the technology.

Not worth it for 10 channels at this point.

[Mike Richardson]

What is the combined total of all DISH Network CONUS transponders? (include the wings and 105 and 121).

[Mike123abc]

What is the combined total of all DISH Network CONUS transponders? (include the wings and 105 and 121).

Dish has:

17 on 61.5 (11 + 6 leased from Sky Angle)
32 on 148
3 on 157
---
52 wing (half CONUS)


32 on 121*
21 on 119
29 on 110
32 on 105*
---
114 CONUS

*DBS equivalent Ku-FSS transponders have fewer transponders for the same slice of spectrum but it should balance out to be the same.

On the CONUS transponders they are using 5 on 119 and 5 on 110 for spots, plus about 4 for LIL non spot. So, they have about 100 transponders for CONUS channels. The HDTV ones are running about 40mbit/sec, the non HD ones are running about 30mbit/sec

If you just do HDTV they have enough to do 200 channels national.

[geneb11]

Well I had dish and went through 3 dishplayers and 3 501's and now I am with directv. I have 2 HDVR2's and they are the bomb. Once you go Tivo you don't go back. When these HD Tivo's come out I plan on selling my unit's on e-bay and buying 2 HD Tivo's.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=130922

Posted by GScott at Tivocommunity:

Exciting HD DirecTivo news
I posted this in the AVS HD Recorders forum but thought I would also post it here.
I just got back from Cedia and was able to get some exciting info regarding the upcoming HD Tivo. The HD DirecTivo will ship 1Q04 with 4 HD tuners. That's correct, it will have 4 HD capable tuners (2 DirecTV HD and 2 ATSC OTA). It will only be able to record 2 HD streams at one time but can do any combination of the 4 (2 DirecTV, 2 OTA, 1 OTA/1DirecTV). I verified this info with both the DirecTV rep and the Hughes rep at another booth. They both said they received alot of heat after only announcing 1 tuner at CES and the decision was made to push back the intro a few months and include the extra tuners. They also said it will ship initially w/ 250GB of disk space and at a price point in the neighborhood of $800. They also confirmed there will be no Firewire on the first unit. I know others will flame for this but I think for 90% of those out there (including myself) the extra OTA tuner is much more desireable than the ability to archive.

[Mike Richardson]

Dish has:

17 on 61.5 (11 + 6 leased from Sky Angle)
32 on 148
3 on 157
---
52 wing (half CONUS)


32 on 121*
21 on 119
29 on 110
32 on 105*
---
114 CONUS

*DBS equivalent Ku-FSS transponders have fewer transponders for the same slice of spectrum but it should balance out to be the same.

On the CONUS transponders they are using 5 on 119 and 5 on 110 for spots, plus about 4 for LIL non spot. So, they have about 100 transponders for CONUS channels. The HDTV ones are running about 40mbit/sec, the non HD ones are running about 30mbit/sec

If you just do HDTV they have enough to do 200 channels national.

We'll say that if 61.5 and 148 were to be mirrored that would give us 17 additional CONUS transponders. So that's 117, we'll add the 4 LIL non spots, that's 121 transponders. If each transponder is 6 MHz that's 726 MHz of potential CONUS space. Some of this is lost to LIL.

Average modern cable systems have 750 MHz and the best ones have 1 GHz. However a bunch of that is lost to VOD, cable modem, and cable telephone. How much is lost, I'm not sure.

They seem pretty equivelent to me.

[tivosmart]

Moved from Dish to Directv a while ago. Main reason was difference between DVRs.

Directv's Tivo pretty much blows out Dish's units (all of them). Don't go with Dish's 500 series family, the 1-tuner is a nightmare if you're like me and always want to see 2 things running at the same time... (I have a friend who owns a 508 and complains about it all the time). Also, Tivo's are upgradeable and hackable. I intend to start messing with it's Linux kernel pretty soon and do a few "experiments" of my own.

Dish is starting to charge for DVR service also with 510, and this is not fair in my opinion due to the lack of 2-tuners and better guide management features. This makes it to have exactly the saming price structure as Directv for DVR service.

When I told them I was leaving they did offer me a 510 for "only" $99 + 1 year commitment to top100... I said no thanks, I'm going to a new Directv system with 1 Tivo and 1 Director + tripple LNB for about $70 shipped (had a shipping rebate). I would only consider staying with them if they gave me a 721 for about the same price and no commitment, but no deal.

Also, the programming I want, which is equivalent to top100 (but has more channels in Directv) is the same price as Dish's top100.
Image quality is exactly the same in my opinion. I have 2 big screen TV's with a lot of resolution, so it would be fairly easy to see the difference, but both feeds seem like the same for me.

I went with the 3-LNB because I intend to give it a shot to HD in a year or so, when they start adding more variety (I hope), so I payed $10 more for it (compared to around $60 total price if I went with 2-LNB, but I think it was better to do it now than later when the supply might be low). I'm not that worried with bandwidth capacity differences between Dish and Directv. I think when it's time, competition will force both companies to have similar offerings for HDTV (or they will be out of business).

Well, after a while, I think I'm getting so used to Tivo's features that I'm considering adding another one for my bedroom... still thinking if I'm going to take Directv's FFDVR promotion that adds another Tivo to current subs for about $114, but I'm more inclined to "yes" right now... Beware, Tivo is addictive.

Hope this helps.