SuperDish a possible bust?

[dmodemd]

In talking with the installer that delivered my new 6000 about SuperDish he said that he is NOT looking forward to it. He already has a few customers that have told him that if they have to install that big thing they are OUT.

is Dish going to still sell Dish 500 packages or are they going to try and push everyone to SuperDish ASAP? I guess I saw that many new cities are going to get their locals on SuperDish only so if they want locals they need to have the SuperDish, while others can get away with Dish 500 is they never want HD.

Of course HD is becoming mainstream in the next year or so, so I imagine that Dish 500 will be presented as an alternate solution but won't be actively marketed any more.

I remember there was a alot of people not comfortable with the Primestar dishes and it wasnt until the smaller dish came out that they bit...

[xgrep]

In talking with the installer that delivered my new 6000 about SuperDish he said that he is NOT looking forward to it. He already has a few customers that have told him that if they have to install that big thing they are OUT.I'm sure installers are not looking forward to SuperDish, but it's not really that huge. I've already got two dishes (some people have 3), and one superdish would look better. It's not a C-band dish or anything. Besides, E* has already sunk too much to back out now. They know it's going to take a while, but they will make it happen.

x

[dmodemd]

To those of us who have 2 single dishes, sure its not a big deal, but to people who walk into a store, have thought about satellite tv and then see the dish they need to install, they are going to balk more than they are now. Its the biggest detractor to adopting the service - putting up an "ugly" dish on the house. Its a major part of the WAF (wife approval factor) that will cut down on the adoption versus cable. ... and THEN when they find out they need to put up an off-air antenna to get local HD... they will really be peeved.

Local cable is providing local HD and DVR today. No matter how much Dish is trying to stay ahead they know they are going to take a big jump back on the curve.

[DoyleS]

I happen to love antennas in all shapes and forms. Bring on the SuperDish! My wife is just happy that I took down the Ham antenna. (KT34XA with 32 foot boom and 6 25 foot elements 25 feet above the 2 story roof). I have my Dish antennas on the backside of the house and my UHF Yagi is hidden in the saddle of the roof.

..Doyle

[Cyclone]

I'm all ready for SuperDish. I'm just debating whether or not to have the legacy Dishes removed. I won't need them at all after SuperDish is installed.

I know I'm not going to spend $$$ on a DP+44 switch just to get Howard University's PBS channel via Dish. I have HD so my locals are OTA anyway.

[Mike500]

I don't see installing many SuperDishes.

I believe that I have compatible "mounting feet" for the two types of SuperDishes. They need extra working in mounting them. They are known as the Type I and the Type II

The Type II is the better of the two. It is made by Channel Master. It has a 2-3/8" outer diameter tube, which is standard nominal 2" pipe. This is easily available as Rigid conduit, water pipe and as chain link fence end posts. This is the same mount used by Primestar, Starband, DirecPC and DirecWay. There are two mount versions. The wall mount has outer mounting hole spacing of 5" wide x 8" tall. The smaller roof mounting foot will have two braces. I'd install this one with a ground pole for my own install, preferably aluminum pipe or conduit.

The Type I mounting foot is an odd one. It was used by the Racing (horse) Network and mde by some company in Ohio or Indiana. I installed a couple of them a few years back. The outer diameter of the tube is an actual 2". Nominal 1-1/2" pipe is on the small side and 2" nominal pipe is too large. The metal is quite a bit thinner than the other foot. The hole spacing on the mounting foot is quite large at 8" wide and 11" high. If I got this one, I run, not walk to the local metal shop to get an 2" actual diameter pole to mount it in the ground, before the installer arrives. I'd at least go with steel, but prefer 1/8" wall aluminum.

I've dug up and moved galvanized steel fence post poles move them several times. These poles rust fast in contact with the concrete. I've also dug up buried alumium conduit that's over 30 years old. The alumium has a very thin layer of discoloration on it. Thirty year old fence posts are almost gone, and galvanized steel pipe has a thick coating of rust on it. Aluminum costs 4-6 times as much as thin fence post and twice as much as galvanized pipe, but it is worth it. I've done a lot of "low ball" installs with the fence post, but never for friends or my own. It's just too temporary.


Most dealers, who deal in both DirecTV and Dish will avoid SuperDish like the plague. They can do two or three installs of the DirecTV Phase II dish or the Dish500 in the time it takes to do one SuperDish. SuperDish will be a loser for dealers. Unless a DVR for HDTV is required, most dealers will sell DirecTV with a Phase III dish.

[Ken_F]

There is no way they will push everyone to Superdish.

Superdish will only be marketed by those who want HDTV, international service, or local markets that they wouldn't be able to get otherwise. Given the Superdish will require a professional install, I doubt you will see them displayed in stores, assuming it's even possible to buy them separately.

[Bob Haller]

It will be interesting to see what the acceptance factor is.

If its not liked DBS has a huge problem:(

[kstevens]

It can also be a status symbol, I have superdish, I get more satellites than you..... :-)


Ken

[DoyleS]

In the end it will all boil down to programming an pricing. With the trend towards larger screen sets, a lot of people will be unhappy with the quality of an over compressed signal. Cable has an inherent advantage there in that they do not have to run as much compression. DBS will need to adopt and promote a plan to put more high quality signals on the air, either HD or SD with less compression. The blockiness that is seen in low contrast scenes is abismal. If it takes a superdish or whatever they want to call that to get the problems fixed then more power to them. The situation is competitive, once they lose someone they are not likely to get them back, at least for several years. If they are perceived as making the changes needed to improve picture quality and provide competitively priced packages, then people will stick with them. I am sure there is a nice logarithmic graph showing price for services versus the number of users with those services. The DBS and Cable guys are trying to shift that graph to the right and get more subscribers paying higher prices but there is only so much the market will bear.

..Doyle

[MikeJ]

I hope I can still get four satellites with Superdish and my DISH 300. I will need Superdish for 105, 110 and 119 and my current DISH 300 for 148 for some of my locals in Denver.

I currently get 61.5, 110, 119 and 148. Using a DISH 500 and two DISH 300 units.

[chelsea]

Charlie's still stuck on old dish inventory. The wallmart's are still stuck on the dish
500 legacys. Then its the DP 500's. Then 2005 you'll see only superdishs. They
should figure out how to make it work by then. Need to get back that big
investment with AMC2. You remember the charlie order. (SW 21 switch to make
110 & 119 together)

[Mike500]

The Dish500 will be the standard for quite a long time in the future. Not many will need the SuperDish, except those going for HDTV, special ethnic programming, and limited local markets. Standard NTSC programming will be on the Dish500 at 110 and 119 for many years to come. Dish Latino will probably continue to be served with Dish500.

The Dish500 has many advantages. The Dish300 has even more. Both of them are simplicity and low cost in hardware and installation. They are easy to install and to maintain.

SuperDish will be costly and tedious to install, and possibly to maintain. As a professional installer, I've been called to rescue a lot of self installers for the Phase III DirecTV dish. The 105/121 fss lnb's will likely be very very tedious to aim and, if not locked, or even when locked, can be easily mechanically knocked out of line.

Don't assume that the installers know all. They often have problems that they do not tell the customers. It appears that DNSC, Dish Network's own installer network, will first install SuperDishes.

Based on my experience and other retailer's and professional installers' experience with DNSC, there will be a lot of "No line of sight" cases. I recall an install that I did on one house right next to a DNSC "no line of sight" case right next door. Due to tall trees in back of both houses, I had to install on a pole in the front yard next to a transformer to shoot over the roof of the house. The DNSC install failed for the house next door. The dish is abandoned on the roof just above the front door of the house with two extra sets of abandoned and ugly roof cemented holes to the left of it. My install continues to work with 122+ signal levels, even the DNSC install site had trees not as tall as those on the site that I installed.

So, unless you already have a Dish500, and will be definitely happy with the SuperDish mounted in the same place or have absolutely no obstructions on your property, expect problems with "line of sight" for SuperDish.

[Pete38]

He already has a few customers that have told him that if they have to install that big thing they are OUT.

Hi all,

The Superdish is not that big. Compared to the Dish 500 it's the same height and about 5 inches wider. Why that difference is a deal breaker to some folks is beyond me. I guess for some people size does matter...

Pete

[Larry]

Since I already have a house full of receivers and was just getting ready to add a second SW64, I think I'll just have superdish installed as an addition to the existing Dish500 and 61.5 dish, when I finally get the 921 delivered. The Dish500 can feed all the legacy stuff and the Superdish can feed the 6000 and the 921. One more shouldn't hurt. Bring it on!! ;)

[tampa8]

Hi all,

The Superdish is not that big. Compared to the Dish 500 it's the same height and about 5 inches wider. Why that difference is a deal breaker to some folks is beyond me. I guess for some people size does matter...

Pete

I could not agree more. This is really a non-issue. If Dish keeps their prices and offerings better than cable, anyone wanting a dish will not forget about it because of 5 inches. If Dish does not compete, a smaller dish won't matter either. That coupled with the fact that most who are not going to get HD won't need one anyway make this nothing to worry about for Dish. (There will be some markets requiring it apparently for locals) Content, I.E. networks in HD will be a much much bigger factor eventually.

[Mike500]

I could not agree more. This is really a non-issue. If Dish keeps their prices and offerings better than cable, anyone wanting a dish will not forget about it because of 5 inches. If Dish does not compete, a smaller dish won't matter either. That coupled with the fact that most who are not going to get HD won't need one anyway make this nothing to worry about for Dish. (There will be some markets requiring it apparently for locals) Content, I.E. networks in HD will be a much much bigger factor eventually.


It's the mount that bothers most of us. It's the larger non compatible mounting foot and the extra weight. New holes must be drilled and new screws must be driven. With the Dish500, if the installer missed the stud or the rafter, it's O.K., unless your dish was hit by a strong storm. Five inches in width and height means a larger surface area and more sail area. Thus, heavier and stronger mounts are needed. Also, if the installer is careless or missed the main members of the building with the mounting screws, the dish will fly in a storm.

Again, the ideal location for SuperDish will be a ground pole. Primestar almost always mounted on a ground pole, even though I've seen a few roof mounts. I do not recall ever seeing a Primestar wall mount.

Also, Primestar had supervisors that were very strict to inspect their installs. This seldom happens with Dish.

[Jacob S]

I have read on the boards somewhere that the SuperDish is going to be about the same size as the PrimeStar dish in which would be about 24 inches high and 34 or 36 inches wide, or something like that, when I heard before that it would be 18-20 inches high and 26 inches wide. What is the true dimensions of this dish and is the Type II going to be the same size as the Type I?

If the dish is going to be only 26 inches wide then there will be some that will stray but I believe most will accept a dish of that size. Now if it is going to be something like 36 inches wide then there is going to be quite a bit more resistance against this size of dish. A lot of people are not going to want this on their roof and especially on the side of their house. People do not want to have to go around the big dish outside with their mowers and so forth.

For those that are in an area where there is cable there WILL BE people that will switch over to cable while others will switch over to satellite because of the size and cost of this dish especially for those that will have to buy a DishPro adapter for each receiver or have to buy new receivers to get them to work with the SuperDish.

For those that are out in the country where there is no cable service available they would be more than willing to put up a larger dish to receive the local channels even if it would cost them a little bit of money (but not no $300 plus DP adapters or new receivers).

What is Dish going to do when they need even more space in the future? They cannot make the dish any bigger than what a PrimeStar dish is, people will not have those things put in (unless they make the price of their service a LOT cheaper than it is now making it a lot more competitive with cable).

[fizgig]

Currently have a Dish 500 and 300. With the Superdish I will only need it. Wife factor says one dish is better than two. Size not a big deal unless it's a 10' cband.

[Mike D-CO5]

My dish 500 is on the old Primestar pole I had before. I have no problem mowing around it and I perfer that my dish be on the pole. I do not want dishes attached to my house. I think it really looks kind of tacky when you look from the street.

This coming from a man who lives in a mobile home park. :lol:

[gpflepsen]

This coming from a man who lives in a mobile home park. :lol:

If you mount the dish in the weeds by the trailer skirt, can the dish still see the bird? :grin:

[Jacob S]

A lot of people would accept an 18 inch dish on the side of their house but would not accept a dish that is larger than that on the side of their house.

[rudolpht]

The Superdish is a downsize from the Gilat dish I have now, with a another 3LNB DirectTV dish and single LNB 61.5 dish besides. My wife will be happier going to a smaller "big" dish.

[Rocky Watson]

i have a list a mile long of people wanting superdish

you don't like the size go whine at something on the directv size

everything that comes up you ppl whine at you don't like it go build your own damn system!


~rock :eek2: