From the Horse's Mouth...

[JMikeF]

Well, actually from a Dish installer:
Hello all,

What does that commercial say? "All the news is good, when you live in perfect!?"
Well, based on the info I have, we live in "pert-near!" (Southern Slang, means close to) The news is pretty good.

I'll give you the bad news first.

Dish is requiring the Superdish be installed on a pole mount for some installations. Pole mount will add at least an additional $100.00 to your total cost.
If you want to do some of your installation before we get there, no problem, email me.

The DP PLUS 44, DP PLUS LNBF and the twin tuner splitter probably won't be out until the 1st QTR of next year.

This means you'll have to use 1 DP-34 to feed a 921 and 1 or more other receivers. (2 DP-34's for 4 - 7 receivers and 3 DP-34's for 8 - 11 receivers, not including other 721's, 921's, 522's, 322's)

Also note:
There are other ways we can install a 921/Superdish to save you money in the long run.

There will be a DVR Upgrade Promotions that will apply to the 921 in the 1st QTR of next year.

Officially, everything is still scheduled for November 1, 2003.

I hope I've already informed you about the DVR Fee based on your programming package.

The IEEE Firewires on the 921 will be disabled initially.

Part of my payment for your Superdish Upgrade are your existing DISH Satellite Antennae and LNBF's . I don't currently want or need your existing DISH Equipment.
We'll have to crunch the numbers on this promotion.

I hope everybody understands we will only ship or install DISH Player DVR 921's and DISH 811's for customers who have had Superdishes installed by us or a Subcontractor. We'll install Superdishes for anybody.

I think that's all the bad news I have.

The good news:

There is a Superdish upgrade for existing DISH Customers. You commit to the new HDTV Package ($9.99 per month), or your locals ($4.99 to $5.99 per month) if they require a Superdish, for 1 year and you get a free Superdish and standard installation. You have to sign up for credit card auto pay. This saves existing customers $300.00. You have to qualify.

The 921 with Superdish is $1,199.99 plus installation. (standard Superdish Install, $100.00)

There is a 921 combo pack for $1,999.99 plus installation. (921, Superdish and either a 34" CRT Flatscreen or 40"Rear Projection HDTV from RCA)

The 921 will qualify for the "Free Dish" Promotion. This will give new Dish customers a $200.00 to $300.00 discount on the 921. (maybe more, you get a free standard install and a discount on equipment)

There are local channels coming out on October 16, 2003. These channels require the Superdish. I expect to begin installing Superdishes on or before that date.

I should have enough DVR 921's for everybody by November 16, 2003. This is subject to change per Dish Network.

The 811 has a DVI.

Showtime is getting into "Video on Demand" and wants Dish to activate the Firewires.

.

[Rocky Watson]

I'm a dish retailer and installer and no mention of this at baltimore on retailer chats
"must mount on a pole - superdish" and in kansas and nebraska you never pay $100 for it!


rock

[Jacob S]

Seeing how the SuperDish is going to be more complex to put up (therefore taking more time) in addition to the extra cost (poles that are hard to find in which may make it expensive, concrete, etc) in which would not normally be had on a Dish 500 upgrade from a Dish 300, there probably will be some additional costs in some cases by some retailers seeing that upgrades are not a huge money maker.

Some retailers may choose to not participate because they will be too busy installing systems for new customers (especially with the addition of locals and it being around Christmas time) while others cannot see making any money or not enough for upgrading the dishes.

I believe most of the SuperDish will be put on poles and some retailers may charge extra for this while others will not. Seeing how some customers will have to have a DishPro adapter for every receiver or DishPro receivers (new or used) to be bought in order to get the SuperDish to work with their setup anyways, that will increase the cost of the upgrades even further in which could drive the cost way up.

If someone were to have to pay $300 before being charged extra for the pole mount, adapters or new receivers, this will turn a LOT of people away. The retailers along with Dish will also have to work with the customers to make this affordable. Dish may require a pole to be included in the basic installation in the new rules when it comes to being paid for installing the SuperDish.

[clapple]

What's with the pole? Why will a dish, that is reportedly 5" wider, require anything other than the existing dish mount?

[TNGTony]

Probably because wind load becomes an issue. 5" wider with 50%-60 more total area than a standard 18" Dish. Wind can now have a serious effect on whatever the dish is mounted to. If Dish allows contractors to mount the dish to "normal" stuff, and the dish gets yanked off by high winds (which is more likely to do than an 18" dish, Dish opens itself to some legal actions. At least that's my guess.

See ya
Tony

[Dave]

Well, actually from a Dish installer:


.

JMIKEF,

This is part of the reason a installer gets a bad name. $ 100.00 extra for $ 10 worth of parts to install a pole and a bag of cement. I don't mind mark-up but NOT 900%. Oh I know your going to complain. I had to dig a hole and use the cutomers water to make the cement and I had to bring an extra level.
Bring on the heat lets hear it how you can't do it for free. Remember your already getting between ($ 200 and $ 400 for the install anyway from Dish Network) and you want to gripe about (Oh I got to make money. I can't do it for free.) Yeah right. There are honest dealers out there that I would call. That I know are just not after peoples money or want to run a scam. I got news for you, if I lived in your part of the country I would order from Wal-Mart before calling you. Or I would call Dish directly. If the installer couldn't do the install for a reasonable fee, I would tell them to leave the dish and install it myself and then report the installer to dish.
As I said I am not against paying a fair price for a good installer to perform work.

Dave

[forklifter]

Just curious as to the the size of the pole needed I still have my old starband pole in cement and perfectly level I hope that will work it will make the install much easier and faster Does anyone remember what the location was for the starband sattelite I hope the location will work where it is at

[Lee L]

Dave, JMikeF is not an installer, he is repeating what an installer told him. He is likely just as upset about it as you are.

[gpflepsen]

About requiring a pole set in concrete for an install...

If installers have been mounting the 300 and 500 dish in places the superdish would be unstable, then the 300 and 500 have been installed incorrectly. If the 300 and 500 mounts are done correctly, the superdish can go in the same place.

I guess there must really be a majority of installers taking the easy way out when installing dishes to require these new guidelines.

[Jerry G]

This report about requiring a pole sounds like nonsense to me. Many people mount their dishes on their roofs (as I do). There is no way to install a pole on my roof. And the roof is the only way to get line of sight to the birds. I think I know who the installer is that JMike is referring to, and if so, he's the same one who told me with absolute certainty that the Superdish would be available in September. If he's the same guy, I wouldn't do business with him in any way, shape, or form based upon my one conversation with him. He sounded very misinformed and I just didn't trust anything he said during our conversation.

[Richard King]

If the 300 and 500 mounts are done correctly, the superdish can go in the same place.Although the Superdish will probably require a pole that sticks further out from the wall in many cases simply because of the size of the dish.

[gpflepsen]

You can bet the Superdish comes with a mount and pole with the correct offset to enable it to be mounted to a vertical surface. Overseeing that would be E*'s biggest blunder to date.

[HTguy]

...Bring on the heat lets hear it how you can't do it for free. Remember your already getting between ($ 200 and $ 400 for the install anyway from Dish Network) and you want to gripe about (Oh I got to make money. I can't do it for free.)
Where in the world did you get this idea? The industry standard for good installers is $75 for the dish & primary receiver and $25 for each additional box. Subcontracted installers make less than that and DISH's own DNSC installers are paid an hourly rate per job type.

Maybe you should get an installation job and see how rich you get. I'd love to hear what you say when you are told to do extra time-consuming work for for the same pay!

[Bob Haller]

Sounds like rubbish to me. Pole mounts are better only if you have line of site.

Couldnt E make the dish a mesh to cut the wind load?

[Jacob S]

The current mast size will not work. A pole or mast with a bigger diameter will need to be used. Some installers get paid only $40 or less and thats before expenses in some cases if they are not provided the materials needed. If they choose to not pay anymore for the SuperDish installation then expect to see extra charges because of the increased expense because of the pole in which was not needed in many cases before, extra time putting the dish in which would cause them to be able to do less installs per day which means they make less money, instead of simply taking one dish off the mount/pole and putting another dish on that same mount/pole. I have heard some say that the 2 inch poles are a lot harder to find therefore will be more expensive because of how uncommon it is compared to the 2 3/8 inch poles (in which the Type II SuperDish's will require).

[jened]

how about this quote:
"Part of my payment for your Superdish Upgrade are your existing DISH Satellite Antennae and LNBF's ."

It sounds to me like this guy is trying to get away with a lot. $100 for a pole install AND he'll take your existing dish and lnbfs.

[gpflepsen]

how about this quote:
"Part of my payment for your Superdish Upgrade are your existing DISH Satellite Antennae and LNBF's ."

It sounds to me like this guy is trying to get away with a lot. $100 for a pole install AND he'll take your existing dish and lnbfs.

That popped out at me too. That's my stuff, I paid for it. The guy seems like a snake.

Here is another case for allowing self-installs.

[rudolpht]

I am hoping the mount for the Gilat dish being removed (With 6 coax runs) will do the trick for Superdish. Anyone know.

Also mentioned Superdish installs starting 16 Oct. When can we order??????

[ats]

That popped out at me too. That's my stuff, I paid for it. The guy seems like a snake.

Here is another case for allowing self-installs.

Actually, that came straight from Charlie on the retailer chat. My jaw hit the floor when he said. When going over the economics of the Superdish upgrade, Charlie said that the retailer would also get to keep the old dish and the LNBs

[cicijay]

Is the pole mount in the ground requirement true?
I can only access the sky I need from my chimney where I have had my dishes mounted for the past 5 years. If this is a requirement, I would have no choice but to switch :confused:

[Bob Haller]

REQUIRED IN SOME APPLICATIONS.

No doubt thoise who have ground line of site...

I wouldnt worry about it, most folks need dishes up high to work. E will not cause most of their subs to dishappear.

[RAD]

I'm also curious if my current ground mounted pole on the Dish 500 will work with SuperDish. I know that when I was thinking about Starband they came out and said that I'd need a new pole, the current one wasn't a large enough diameter and wanted to charge me anothr $100, I sent them packing. Will there be an adapter to allow use of the current pole or are we talking about having to start from scratch here and another charge, or will Charlie throw that in also, like all the Dish 300's, switched and DishPro legacy adapters that he's been throwing in on all the folks that have got the $199 Dish 6000u deal?

[Bill R]

E will not cause most of their subs to dishappear.
What?

[icefreon]

We did an install of a starband / dishnetwork dish. If you have ever seen the combo dish, it is almost EXACTILY the same as a superdish. What we used and I HIGHLY recommed using is a soffit mount with U bolts and 2" pipe (cut to fit). It comes out as a clean install.

[gpflepsen]

What?

E will not cause most of their subs to dishappear = Dish Network will not force most of their customers to drop their service due to unobtainable dish mounting requirements.

It's too bad the tag isn't enabled on this forum. :D

[sgtjim]

Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the 300 and 500 mounts are done correctly, the superdish can go in the same place.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My original 500 installation was mounted to the trunk of an oak tree. The installer was supposed to run a second line from the SW21 for a second box and I haven't seen him since. No completed second line, Charley has lost $5.00 a month for 3 years! With my 6000, do I qualify for a Superdish
and pole. Already got the HDPAK for a year.

[Richard King]

I know that when I was thinking about Starband they came out and said that I'd need a new pole, the current one wasn't a large enough diameter and wanted to charge me anothr $100, I sent them packing.$100 for a new ground installation is a VERY good price. Starband suggests $175. Dealers don't get reimbursed any more for a ground install than a normal install even though there is more time, material and labor involved, so they have to charge more to cover their costs. Many customers don't think about that though.

Will there be an adapter to allow use of the current pole or are we talking about having to start from scratch here and another charge, or will Charlie throw that in also,I think you can count on Dish (Charlie) not throwing in any kind of ground pole. In fact I can guarantee that he won't throw in any kind of ground pole since a ground pole has always been an added optional cost to any installation in the past. Whether your existing ground pole will work is sort of "up in the air". I suspect that if your current ground pole is strong enough, an adaptor can be rigged rather easily though.

[AllieVi]

I suspect that if your current ground pole is strong enough, an adaptor can be rigged rather easily though.
While I haven't tried it, a short section of 1 1/2" ABS (black) plastic pipe should work as an adapter. Just make a table saw cut along its length and it should be a snap fit over the 1 5/8" pipe normally used for a pole mount. The thickness of the plastic should give about a 2" diameter result.

[Richard King]

In going the other way, from a c-band pole to a Dish pole, I have secured a section of fence post to the c-band post (with screws) and attached the DBS dish to that with no problems. Of course in that case, since the old pole was supporting a 10' or so dish, there is no worry about it being strong enough.

[Richard King]

You can bet the Superdish comes with a mount and pole with the correct offset to enable it to be mounted to a vertical surface.I have had cases in the past where the dish supplied with a Dish 500 wouldn't work on the supplied pole. Once the dish is skewed and rotated it often bumps into the wall before seeing the satellite. The only cure is a stand off of some kind or using a different wall.