VHF analog reuse? Would this be possible?

[Bob Haller]

When the band finally goes dark I had a interesting reuse idea~!

Could this band be used for a pay basic wireless cable operation? How many compressed channels could fit? Done regionally perhaps even using the existing analog transmitters oputting out a compressed digital feeds.

I am out of my element here:(

On one analog channel using the laytest compression available how many digital channels could fit?

[scooper]

Ain't going to happen -

at the end of the DTV transition, the band for TV is still from channel 2 to 51 - a very slight decrease off the top is all that will be gained. All those stations whose DTV or analog assignemnts are above 51 will be going back to their lower one - period.

I beleive the wireless telephone companies are looking hunrgerly at the extra bandwidth to be gained, so they can offer more / different services.

[paulh]

I know the FCC autioned off many of the old frequencies. (Giving the FCC and congress a financial intrest in promoting the new digital channels) I believe that there are current wireless (commercial communications) that use some of the TV channels frequencies in certain markets.
I think you can search the FCC's database to find current Land mobile use of a TV channel here: http://www.fcc.gov/mb/video/tvq.html

Plus, although 98% of new digital channels are UHF, in some markets there are VHF digital channels. (i.e. CBS in Chicago has VHF channel 3 for HDTV)

[scooper]

What you need to keep in mind about the end of the DTV transition, is that the stations have to return one of them back - and if the DTV channel is above 51 - guess where they will be transmitting from ? You guessed it - their original analog channel assignment, unless they can request the FCC to give them a replacement channel assignment instead.

[boba]

Scooper In Dallas we have a broadcaster that uses 55 as their analog channel and their assigned Digital channel is 54 so the FCC made a mistake or your information needs adjusting.

[James Hill]

There's a service here in Salt Lake that's currently in beta. It is going along the lines of what you're talking about.

http://usdtv.com/

James Hill

[Bob Haller]

what are they doing, all the site is a yellow page with a e mail option.

I just think it might be possible to use locals to provide a basic compressed digital wireless cable like service as a regional service.

One digital channel had the option of 6 or 7 different channels. if there were say 8 channels in a market the broadcasters could get together with 16 digital channels 8 old analog 8 new digital ones to provide a 16 times 7 112 channel offering. for many that might be a attractive offering.

If there were a better compression scheme many more channels might be available.

[waydwolf]

As stated before, you can do approximately 38.8Mbps at 256QAM. But that is CLOSED CIRCUIT. Open air(much greater ingress, signal loss, etc.) in the VHF band has practically no bandwidth of interest to a wireless operation focused on modern video. Plenty of interest for higher bandwidth for mobile phones and so on, but not for TV.

Now MVDDS using the 12.2-12.7Ghz band is another matter...

[scooper]

Neither - The station will be getting a lower frequency channel assignment as things start clearing off - trust me on this. I'll also bet that this station is a relative "Johnny come lately" to the market...

[waydwolf]

Neither - The station will be getting a lower frequency channel assignment as things start clearing off - trust me on this. I'll also bet that this station is a relative "Johnny come lately" to the market...
That would then include 57 WGBY(public television) and 61 WTIC (Fox affiliate) in this region. 57 isn't a "Johnny come lately" by any stretch and 61 has been around since the 80s. But the vast majority of this state if not the entirety is cabled and with line of sight what isn't can have DBS. Add terrestrial in the future and we've got total TV coverage here, so it won't be a major problem. But in other places...

[scooper]

I'll repeat it for the benefit of all you Doubting Thomas's - THE ONLY CHANNEL RANGE AT THE END OF THE DTV TRANSITION WILL BE 2 - 51. Period. End of discussion. For those who point out channels above - the stations WILL be getting new assignments between 2 and 51. The space at 52 and above WILL be going to additional 2-way services.

[Bob Haller]

Ahh is station number DIRECTLY related to frequency? My understaning was the VHF band was to be abandoned by OTSA stations leaving UHF frequencies and actually fewer of them....

But thats a OLD memory

[waydwolf]

I'll repeat it for the benefit of all you Doubting Thomas's - THE ONLY CHANNEL RANGE AT THE END OF THE DTV TRANSITION WILL BE 2 - 51. Period. End of discussion. For those who point out channels above - the stations WILL be getting new assignments between 2 and 51. The space at 52 and above WILL be going to additional 2-way services.
I didn't say otherwise. I merely said we only had two real channels that would be affected.

[bryan27]

The FCC is still out on the status of ch.2-6. However, the current TV Core is 2-51. It will be up to the stations operating DTV on 2-6 to determing if the VHF-L Band is suitable for broadcast. If not then the TV Core Band would be 7-51. There have been many proposals if 2-6 are deemed unsatisfactory, such as reserving 2-6 for LPTV use only.

Now to clear up some things.

If a station has both it's Analog and Digital on ch.52-69 then it will have to find an available channel and ask the FCC to add that channel to the Table of Allotments.

If a station has it's Analog on ch.52-69 and it's Digital in the TV Core (2-51) it's Analog channel will be the channel the station gives back.

If a station has it's Digital on ch.52-69 and it's Analog in the TV Core (2-51) the station will have to move digital transmissions to the old analog channel and give back their initial DTV allocation.

If a station has both it's Digital and Analog in the TV Core the station may choose which channel it wants to keep.

The FCC tried to place station assignments where they would fit during the transmission. The decisions was not based on such arbitary things as this is a youg station so lets give it both analog and digital outside of the TV Core. There are only about 12 stations nationwide where both the analog and digital are outside the TV Core and they occur in major metro areas such as Dallas where available frequencies are scarse.


To answer Bob's last question. It depends. To the FCC channel number does relate to frequency. Even FM stations have channel numbers. However, a DTV station can call itself any number it wants in its PID. For instance 11 transmits on 48, 4 transmits on 51, 13 transmits on 38, and 53 transmits on 43. But 11 shows up as 11, 4 as 4, 13 as 13, 53 as 53 on the STB. You are still receiveing a signal on 51, but it is remapped via the PID to ch.4. At one time 13 was remapping to ch.80

Does that help answer your question?