VOOM: A Disappointment for Retailers

[Chris Blount]

High-def Service to Cost $749

The Cablevision VOOM boom is here...and it's a disappointment for independent retailers around the nation. Why? Sears has become the exclusive retailer of the VOOM service, the company has said, which further promotes the big chain retail effect where the smaller independents have to fend for themselves.

In a poll held on SkyRETAILER.com, 47 percent of those polled said they would like to sell the VOOM service and 32 percent said they would consider selling it (results as of press time). And, considering SkyRETAILER's readership consists of smaller retailers around the nation - the likes of DISH and DirecTV retail enthusiasts - the poll says a lot.

Full Article (http://www.skyretailer.com)

[Jacob S]

There are many reasons why retailers and consumers would be disapointed with Voom.....

> Price of the hardware
> No locals available
> No lease option (yet)
> 61.5 location may not allow some on west coast able to view satellite
> No DVR available (yet)
> Only available through Sears or Voom directly (until Jan. 2004)
> Main concentration is HD, not cost effective for those not wanting HD

[Scott Greczkowski]

There are too many unanswer questions about voom for my liking, and now that they launched there is still no solid program information.

I don't want to subscribe and watch a bunch of repeats all month. I think they should also scrap the SD channels and stick to HD only, the SD Channels they have are CRAP and good stations like CNN and ESPN are missing.

I will wait it out.

[feelingfine]

SD channels are crap???

You actually like CNN?? (Communist Network News) I like FoxNews

ESPN? Not all of us are slaves to sports!
I could pass on both!

[rtt2]

CNN is good because it actually reports news all day long. I like Fox as well but it has a lot of opinion shows that I don't care for. Two idiots arguing about some trivial issue is not news in my opinion. Some of the shows on Fox News you sit through an hour of and really don't get hard factual news. That is why I am grateful for all the choices on E* because it affords me to be informed and good decisions. Personally I don't know how Voom will succeed unless it has both news services. People would be forced to go back to the days of yesterday watching the 6:00 evening news. Thats if they get reception.

[Sonnie Parker]

I never watch CNN for news myself but I'm sure there's lots of people that do (including my wife). FOX News is the real deal (fair and balanced as they say!).... maybe, maybe not, but none the less, I can't stand CNN. Bill O'Reily is hilarious and doesn't put up with the crap most others do. I like Shep as well. I also like MSNBC occasionally.

On the other hand ESPN is a great sports news source and I like college football, so I'd want it. Sunday night NFL in HD is a treat as well.

[digisat1]

I think the main key is the price of the hardware. When dave and charly are giving their stuff away there is no way Voom can compete at $795.
Hell that is part of why c-band is dying. If they would give their 4dtv receivers, antenna, installation away you would see many go back to c-band as the pq has no rival from the small dish companies.

[Ken_F]

VOOM doesn't have FOX News either, yet.

I watch HDTV channels and news channels. That's pretty much it, with the occasional Sci Fi event thrown in.

[tahoerob]

As usual, I knew more about the Voom service than the 2 dweebs at the local Sears. They at least had a display up but no service. The box locked up trying to navigate the menus that were showing!. The dweebs said that they tried to contact Voom themselves for an install but got hung up on by Voom!!!!

Get this, the demo showing was from a DVD run through a Samsung HD931 DVD player!
The dweebs even admitted that what they know about Voom was from the DVD demo loop.

The remote looked like it came from a Clown branded TV! Lots of perty colors!

So far a waste of time. It does have potential. The brochure available stated that the 28 channels are available but the web site states only 23 incl. the 21 Voom channels & DiscoveryHD & an Intro Voom are available now. The rest later (after 2/1/04).

Thus there are NO add on packages now.

I am still tempted to sign up for the 23 channels. However, once I get a Dish 921, I would not need any addon channels with Voom due to the Dish HD pack & HD DVR!!

Robert

[SouthernSky]

It is being sold by Sears, but are Sears techs actually going to start installing satellite or is that contracted out?

[tahoerob]

It is being sold by Sears, but are Sears techs actually going to start installing satellite or is that contracted out?

My local Sears dweebs said contracted by local DIRECTV installers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(of course they did not really know 100%)

That could be a mess. Some of these guys really suck. Especially after they see my Dish Network antennas! :lol:

Robert

[rtt2]

Its being installed by Installs inc. http://www.installs.com/

The hang up on the phone is what a typical Cablevision customer suffers through all the time. Whenever they don't know an answer or some request is too difficult to deal with you will get mysteriously disconnected. It is very frustrating to deal with them and rude in my opinion. The CSRs are the biggest idiots on the planet (and that is being polite). I got a free month of cable and free install for one month with them under a Dish winback program. After my month was up I wanted to cancel my service and had the hardest time. Kept getting disconnected, having to deal with different reps and had to invest a lot of my time.

[Scott Greczkowski]

I just picked some missing channels out of my head and CNN was one (I actually like FOX News better myself)

But my kids would kill me if we didnt have Nick, Disney, Cartoon Network, and Boomerang.

My wife would kill me if we did not get CourtTV, Lifetime and E.

I would kill myself if I could not get SpikeTV (Almost said TNN!) (MXE Rules!)

Again I think they should offer ONLY HD services, leave the SD to those that have the space to do SD, Sell voom as an add on for your existing satellite system, I bet it would sell better that way.

[tahoerob]

I just picked some missing channels out of my head and CNN was one (I actually like FOX News better myself)

But my kids would kill me if we didnt have Nick, Disney, Cartoon Network, and Boomerang.

My wife would kill me if we did not get CourtTV, Lifetime and E.

I would kill myself if I could not get SpikeTV (Almost said TNN!) (MXE Rules!)

Again I think they should offer ONLY HD services, leave the SD to those that have the space to do SD, Sell voom as an add on for your existing satellite system, I bet it would sell better that way.

I agree. I am ONLY interested in it for the exclusive channels providing the content is worth it. I will not use Voom for HBO\Showtime. I have them with Dish & plan on getting a 921 with the Dish HD pak. Thus, why get HBO with Voom when I can DVR HBO HD at 3am!!! Also, they are charging MORE for the same movie channels than what Dish charges.

Now, if Voom offered ALL the same SD & HD as Dish as well as added a good DVR & would actually switch.

Robert

[Tulsa1]

I too am feeling sceptical about VOOM but will find out first hand this coming
Wednesday (10/22). That is my install time for VOOM.
I currently have Directv and scheduled for Dish install in November.
If VOOM turns out to be garb I will have to test their money back guarantee.
I am curious to compare all three.
I will be using a Samsung 617 DLP RP-HDTV.
Directv has been great for me but they hold no promise for a DVR so I am
going to try the 921 with Dish.
Monitoring this site gives me a good comfort level for Dish and the 921.
Thanks for all the good info.
I'll share my experiences as I go, hopefully more good than bad.

[Chris Freeland]

I just picked some missing channels out of my head and CNN was one (I actually like FOX News better myself)

But my kids would kill me if we didnt have Nick, Disney, Cartoon Network, and Boomerang.

My wife would kill me if we did not get CourtTV, Lifetime and E.

I would kill myself if I could not get SpikeTV (Almost said TNN!) (MXE Rules!)

Again I think they should offer ONLY HD services, leave the SD to those that have the space to do SD, Sell voom as an add on for your existing satellite system, I bet it would sell better that way.

I agree and lower the price of the premiums too. I give the service 1 year and then it will be bought by either E* or D* for the satellite and additional TP's at 61.5, the subs will be a small bonus. What happened to the "a la carte" service that V* was promising? :D

[timf]

Directv has been great for me but they hold no promise for a DVR so I am
going to try the 921 with Dish.What do you mean? The DIRECTV HD DVR is due out by next spring. It may not be out as soon as the 921, but there's definately promise in it.

[waydwolf]

I think the main key is the price of the hardware. When dave and charly are giving their stuff away there is no way Voom can compete at $795.
Hell that is part of why c-band is dying. If they would give their 4dtv receivers, antenna, installation away you would see many go back to c-band as the pq has no rival from the small dish companies.
There's no way VOOM CANNOT compete, given that they are making the customer foot the cost of the receivers AS THEY SHOULD while DTV and E* eat the cost and thus a huge chunk of their margin. Those boxes ARE NOT free to DTV and E*.

Cable DOES NOT give away their boxes. They charge you a rental fee and when the nation's cable goes all digital and receivers are availible at Best Buy and whatnot, you'll see $150-$750 prices depending on features. When you work cable, losing a Motorola DCT-2000 box is good for a $300 backcharge. And they don't have Firewire, HD, etc. Such service require an add-on box or whole new box altogether, and those boxes are mega-expensive.

NO business can give away the store as DBS keeps doing and remain in business forever. Microsoft is not a contradiction because they give away tchotchkes and sell what makes them their bread and butter. It would be more of a comparison if MS priced all their software at 90% off of current prices, but they don't.

Ask a child selling lemonade if they think they should sell each glass priced so low that they don't make enough money to buy more lemonade never mind have money left over to buy candy on the side. More to the point, if DTV was such a profit center, why'd it get kicked to Murdoch? Would YOU get rid of a massive profit center? No, and DTV isn't and won't be.

VOOM's pricing is more realistic and I'd readily dish that out as soon as I grab a plasma screen.

[Tulsa1]

What do you mean? The DIRECTV HD DVR is due out by next spring. It may not be out as soon as the 921, but there's definately promise in it.

My guess since they have nothing specific out yet that it will probably be much
later than 04 Spring. I am a big fan of Tivo as it has served me well for years
but my focus is now HD. The info I have read so far on their HD DVR is
sacrificing the multiple viewing/recording options to maintain user ease.
It took sometime for E*s 921 to make it to this point, I am sure D*s DVR
will take a while too. They haven't even mentioned a prototype yet.
Don't take me wrong, I will continue with D* till I can decide what best meets
my preferences. I am having VOOM installed this Wednesday.
I'll have a chance to compare all three for pic quality and programming.
The features of the E* 921 definitely deserve a try.
Not sure what to expect from VOOM.

[Jacob S]

Voom does not want to subsidize customers as DirecTv and Dish wants to it seems to me. Customers want to get all their television from ONE source and will not go for getting two satellite systems, especially if one is going to have such a high cost. Dish is going to eventually offer just as much content if not more content than what Voom has. Dish has plenty of space to add the HD channels unlike Voom, and Dish plans to add even more space with more satellite launches.

I think most would give up a little HD content to save a LOT of money, especially knowing that more HD content would be added later, having it all come from one provider, and with less risk of the company going out of business losing the investment the customer has in the system ($749 OUCH!).

[ClearCom]

All those that have been in the satellite business for more than a week remember when the first HD offerings came from DTV and DISH. They were also mega-expensive with no promotion attached to the equipment.
Now here comes VOOM doing the same thing. They are simply testing the water to see if anything bites (besides the service).
If they get some reaction to their new service, you can bet dollars to donuts that a rental/least promotion will come out.
If they get zero response to the service, they will sell all assests to someone looking for 61.5 access. DISH is out of 61.5 in the not to distant future when they fire up SUPERDISH at 105 and 121.

What this does is really allow the satellite guys the opportunity to go right after the cable company using advertising. Remember for years the cable companies have been running ads showing how bad things are with a dish on your roof. Now DTV and DISH can really stick it to them if the right ads were created.
They could even start by saying, "you want HD from cable? You now need a dish with that cable service. I wonder how it will work in the rain. Will you need to call to have it realigned?" You get the point!!

[James Long]

DISH is out of 61.5 in the not to distant future when they fire up SUPERDISH at 105 and 121. Dish is not leaving 61.5º. They currently have 7 HDs and 128 other video channels on 61.5º. Even *IF* they moved all the HDs to SuperDISH 105º and all the Internationals to SuperDISH 121º they would still have ~76 locals to move ... 7 transponders that could be used for new locals at 105º. (And there are only 7 transponders left at 105º.)

And that's ignoring customers who wanted both HD and Internationals and the cost of all those SuperDISHes to replace people who just got a 61.5º. It would be cheaper to keep 61.5º active! (It also protects E*'s interest to keep VOOM off of those transponders - the weaker VOOM is, the better it is for E* in a cut throat business world.)

JL

[Nick]

"Main concentration is HD, not cost effective for those not wanting HD..."

Isn't that the whole point, Jacob?

[ChrisPC]

I saw it in Sears the other day, and it was nice when it wasn't freezing up! Changing to pay channels kept making me go back to the demo channel, only the locals and free channels were unlocked. Half the time they wouldn't work, then the receiver finally gave a no signal error on every channel. It was raining outside, maybe that was the problem, but I don't see why that would affect locals. Needless to say, the salespeople had no idea what to do, or even what Voom was, so I left.

[j_max_junk]

directv already has a dvr system its by philips, tivo, sony, and sony


I too am feeling sceptical about VOOM but will find out first hand this coming
Wednesday (10/22). That is my install time for VOOM.
I currently have Directv and scheduled for Dish install in November.
If VOOM turns out to be garb I will have to test their money back guarantee.
I am curious to compare all three.
I will be using a Samsung 617 DLP RP-HDTV.
Directv has been great for me but they hold no promise for a DVR so I am
going to try the 921 with Dish.
Monitoring this site gives me a good comfort level for Dish and the 921.
Thanks for all the good info.
I'll share my experiences as I go, hopefully more good than bad.
:nono2:

[Jacob S]

The point I was making is that it may take some that just want SD service to have Voom to help with operating costs with the company as a whole for the HD services as well. It helps spread costs. This would not attract people that would want some of those channels that are not available in HD yet but still only available in SD.

[zonzin]

Actually if Voom would add 90% of the SD programming (especially FoxNews) to the HD lineup and bring the cost of signing up to what DISH and DTV charge I would switch in a heartbeat for all that HD. And the SD would mean I only need to subscribe to one provider saving $$.

[tahoerob]

Actually if Voom would add 90% of the SD programming (especially FoxNews) to the HD lineup and bring the cost of signing up to what DISH and DTV charge I would switch in a heartbeat for all that HD. And the SD would mean I only need to subscribe to one provider saving $$.
They need a basic DVR receiver.
They need easier OTA channel control. ie. let us add\scan as we see fit for channels especially in the areas with multiple DMA to choose from.
They need a HD DVR
They more flexibility with order\setup. ie. have seperate pricing for those of us with already installed OTA antennas, a dish pointing at 61.5 (thus just add a LNB & cable)

If these were available, I too would easily switch come 2\1\04 when all HD is added & software bugs are worked out.

Robert

[WSS]

I don't think D is that far away from there HD Tivo. Here;s a link to more info
http://www.pbase.com/image/10792288

[Bob Haller]

I don't think D is that far away from there HD Tivo. Here;s a link to more info
http://www.pbase.com/image/10792288

Link dead:(

[tahoerob]

Link dead:(
Link worked for me.
Please note the date on the pictures. It is 1/10/03 at the 2003 CES!!
The same place where Dish revealed the yet to be truly available 921 :hurah:

For all we know it is just an empty box!

[Capmeister]

CNN is good because it actually reports news all day long.
There ISN'T enough news to report all day long. They just repeat it hour after hour.

[James Long]

CNN is good because it actually reports news all day long.
There ISN'T enough news to report all day long. They just repeat it hour after hour.
There's a snappy comeback :rolleyes: ... had to go all the way back to October 12th to see where rtt2 said his line. :lol:

CNN Headline News is a repeater channel ... and intended to be so (although technology has allowed them to tape the anchor segments as well as the stories that are in the loop).

CNN's main channel repeats shows every 3-4 hours in the evening. They still carry a lot of live news during the day. Perhaps you don't watch this one and are going off of other people's smears?

CNNfn focuses on financial news for those who don't want to hear that Michael Jackson is totally innocent. (It must be true, his lawyer said it.) It also carries CNN International at night, for a non-Americancentric view of the world news.

No single channel matches the contribution of CNN's suite. Putting that suite on the VOOM satellite service is a bonus - making it easier for customers to dump any other provider they have and go with VOOM.

Without the SDs customers have to make the choice of maintaining two incompatable satellite systems, throw cable back in the mix, or go without. While some HD viewers could live without SD, the majority still wants the basic SDs with their HDs. They would prefer it in HD, but don't want to lose it completely.

JL

[Stranger Monsoon]

As a consumer, let me tell you how rotten VOOM is. I ordered VOOM. I saw you could get extra receivers for $200 each and ordered an extra two receivers. I was told that VOOM wouldn't charge my credit card until the unit was installed. The installer could not obtain a line of sight to the VOOM satellite. I was not able to install VOOM. Now comes the credit card bill from VOOM, the one they said wouldn't be generated until install. Now I'm fighting with VOOM to credit my credit card account. This battle has only waged for about three weeks now. I'm about to call the credit card wolves on VOOM and work with the credit card people to have my VOOM charges removed. I guess this is better than being poked in the eye though!

[snidely]

As a consumer, let me tell you how rotten VOOM is. I ordered VOOM. I saw you could get extra receivers for $200 each and ordered an extra two receivers. I was told that VOOM wouldn't charge my credit card until the unit was installed. The installer could not obtain a line of sight to the VOOM satellite. I was not able to install VOOM. Now comes the credit card bill from VOOM, the one they said wouldn't be generated until install. Now I'm fighting with VOOM to credit my credit card account. This battle has only waged for about three weeks now. I'm about to call the credit card wolves on VOOM and work with the credit card people to have my VOOM charges removed. I guess this is better than being poked in the eye though!

How many times are you going to post this?

[junki]

Voom is working on a plan for independent retailers around the nation starting in March 04'. They e-mail me regulary and call me at my retailer office every week telling me they are working on a buy down, and lease option.
Their new give them time, they have only been out for less then 6 months.
Even a baby takes alittle time to make a solid tird.