DBSTALK FIRST LOOK: In-Home Dish DVR-921 Review

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

A complete specifications sheet in PDF format can be downloaded HERE (http://www.dbstalk.com/specsheets/Dish921Specs.pdf).

This review is based on beta software version L142, and will be updated as future software versions are released.

Introduction

Here's the front of the 921 sitting on my coffee table, getting ready to be installed into my equipment rack.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921-front_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921-front.jpg)

Here's the back of the 921.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921-back_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921-back.jpg)

Closeup of the satellite and antenna inputs on the back of the 921. I was afraid they would be too close together to easily get the three coax cables connected, but the spacing does allow for comfortable connection.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-1.jpg)

Here's another closeup of the back of the 921 showing the DVI port, the rf output, 2 composite/RCA audio outputs, 1 composite/RCA audio input, the component output, 2 DishWire ports, a usb port, and the phone jack. The svideo and toslink outputs are just to the left of the DVI port.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-2.jpg)

Installation of the 921

I placed the 921 in my equipment rack and connected all of the cables on the back. Note - you must have both satellite tuners connected to coax coming from your switch or dish. That's 2 lines connected. Just below and to the left of the 2 satellite tuner inputs is where the over the air coax antenna line is connected. I'm viewing HD material via component cables, as I don't have a DVI connection on my television. Audio is via the toslink (optical) port that I have connected to my receiver. I also connected svideo and composite video to a vcr and to my computer to take the screenshots you see.

After the connections were made, I turned on the receiver and got ready to wait. It's always been my experience that when a receiver is first connected, you have to sit and wait for the software to be updated before you can do anything. But, like with the 721, not in this case. I turned the power on, and channel 101 appeared immediately. So, I went into the system setup screen to set up my satellites. A quick check switch later, and both satellite tuner inputs recognized my DP34 switch. I then went back to live television and picture was there. A side note here - at this point I would have had to call Dish to authorize the receiver, but the receiver had already been authorized for my account before I picked it up from Dish.

I was pleasantly surprised when the 921 powered up. I've lived with the jet engine fan noise coming from the 6000 8VSB module for the last 2 years. I am very happy to say that the 921 is MUCH quieter than the 6000 (unless of course you disconencted your 8VSB fan). If nothing else is on, and there's no noise in the room, then the 921 fan can be heard, but if there's anything making noise in your room, the 921 noise is just about completely inaudible. The fans in my HTPC are louder, and I've worked very hard at making it as quiet as possible. Is the 921 fan too loud for a bedroom? Probably. But, it's a night and day difference coming from the 6000.

View of the Point Dish screen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_point_dish_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_point_dish_screen.jpg)

View of the Check Switch screen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_switch_matrix_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_switch_matrix.jpg)

Screen showing my check switch was successful.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_switch_matrix_2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_switch_matrix_2.jpg)

So, I now have all of my channels available. Switched over to HDNet and watched a bit of Bikini Destinations. Flipped around - sure enough, all of my channels were there. Then I tried the PVR functions. Nothing… Up pops a message about this program is being downloaded from satellite. Please try again later. I figure I need to check the software version and try to force the software upgrade that I know is waiting for me. So, back into the setup screen, to the software upgrade option. And lo and behold, the software upgrade is already in progress. In fact, it has been in progress since I finished the check switch. I had been watching live television for the last 15 minutes while the software was upgrading in the background. Very cool! No more having to wait the hour or so for the software to download before doing anything! It took right at 46 minutes to complete the software download, install and reboot process. Once it was done, I was ready to go. All of the menu functions were now available as well as the PVR functions.

Software upgrade screen with the download partially done.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_software_upgrade_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_software_upgrade_screen.jpg)

Unlike the 811, this 921's video output was set to 480p as a default rather than 720p. If the shipping versions of the 921s are set to 480p as the default, then no one should have to connect the svideo or composite to get a picture first. More about the aspect ratios later on.

Default shipping setting is 480p. Display setup screen showing current output of 480i.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_display_setup_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_display_setup_screen.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 2
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

The Remote

Like the 811, the uhf pro remote that comes with the 921 (it's the same remote as the 811) does not send IR signals to the 921. It sends UHF only signals. That's a problem for pronto users, and users of other learning remote controls. I'm going to work with Dish to compile a selection of IR codes for the pronto remote for the buttons on this remote that aren't available anywhere else for all remote addresses. Other than the lack of IR from the remote to control the 921, the remote is well laid out and comfortable to use. It looks very similar to the older platinum remotes that ship with the 5xx series of receivers, except that some of the buttons are more recessed than others. For example - the * (format) and the # (search) buttons are only about half as high as the rest of the number pad. Makes it very easy to use the remote by feel without having to look at it.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_remote_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_remote.jpg)

The Interface

The 921 interface is based on the 721 interface. The 921's operating system is DishLinux just like the 721. I had never used a 721 before starting to play with the 921. My Dish PVR experience is based on the 5xx series of receivers, so a lot of my comparisons will be based on the 5xx series interface. Please note, that because the 921 operates on a Linux based operating system, rebooting the 921 takes longer than other dish receivers. Average reboot time is between 2 and 3 minutes in my experience.

I really like the interface and the look and feel of everything. Very slick and polished. And even though I had never used a 721 before, the interface is easy enough to navigate that I never felt lost. Let's look at some pictures.

Here's the main menu, along with the TV Listing sub menu.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-1_tv_listing_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-1_tv_listing.jpg)

Here's the first page of the Preferences screen. This is the standard layout for options screens throughout the software. Very nice looking, and very easy to navigate with the remote. Notice the television image in the upper corner - just about every screen has the TV window, so you can go just about anywhere in the software and still keep an eye on what you're watching. And, all of the DVR functions work with the small TV window display! Much better than the 5xx series!

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-1.jpg)

Here's the guide. Seven lines of program information, along with program descriptions in the top left corner and the TV image in the top right corner. This guide is FAST - you can scroll through it so fast that the text isn't readable. It's so much faster than the 5xx guide, that my jaw just about hit the floor the first time I went guide surfing. More about the guide later in the operations section.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 3
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Operation of the 921

So, how does this receiver work? All in all, pretty well. There are a few problems with it, but nothing that can't be fixed in future updates. So, let's dig right in and start looking at how this thing works.

The first thing I want to comment on is directly based on posts that some people have left in forums around the internet regarding the recording capability of the 921. The 921 is very capable of recording TWO high definition programs AND watching a pre-recorded high definition program. Yes, that's THREE high definition program streams being handled simultaneously. The 921 worked perfectly! It, however, can't record three high definition streams (2 from satellite and 1 from OTA) at the same time.

The next important issue to comment on is the pause buffer. The 921 offers a high definition pause buffer of 120 minutes.

So now, let's dig into the menus.

Here's the main menu. Let's first take a look at option 1 - TV Listing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_main_menu_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_main_menu.jpg)

Under the TV Listing option, as you can see in the picture, we have access to the DVR List, the Search function, the Themes function, the Guide and your PPV purchase history. Of course, all of these except for the purchase history can be accessed directly with the remote control.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-1_tv_listing_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-1_tv_listing.jpg)

Here's the DVR list screen. The 921 has 2 satellite tuners and 1 over the air digital tuner built in. Notice on this screen there are 2 programs currently recording - The Phantom from HBO-HD and Jefferson Starship: Acoustic from HDNet. Yes, that's 2 HD programs recording simultaneously! Also, as with the other screens, The Phantom is playing in the upper TV corner.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_dvr_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_dvr_screen.jpg)

Scroll down on the DVR list past your recorded events, and you will see the list of timers that are set to record in the future. I already find this very convenient that the timers are also located here rather than just on the timer management screen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_dvr_screen_timers_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_dvr_screen_timers.jpg)

Selecting Search from the menu, or pressing the # (search) key on the remote brings you to the search screen. Like with the other dish receivers, text can be entered directly from the guide, by using the number keypad on the remote, or by using the on screen keyboard.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_search_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_search_screen.jpg)

Here's the search results screen after doing a search for "The Phantom".

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_search_results_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_search_results_screen.jpg)

Here's the Themes screen, accessed from the menu or from the left arrow button on the remote. Pretty standard operation like all of the other dish receivers. Select a category, and all of the upcoming events that match that category will be displayed.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_themes_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_themes_screen.jpg)

Here's the theme results when I told it to search for movies. The red X means that's a channel I don't subscribe to. And of course, how convenient that all of the PPV movies are listed first…

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_themes_results_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_themes_results_screen.jpg)

Here's the guide screen, accessed from the menu or from the guide button on the remote. Once again notice the 2 red dots - 2 HD channels recording at the same time. I really, really like this guide so much better than the 5xx guide. All of the standard guide functions work - the skip forward and skip back buttons navigate you 24 hours into the future or into the past. You can enter a number on the remote and press the left or right arrow keys to move forward or back that many hours in the guide. You can enter a number and press select to jump to that channel. Timers are easily defined from the guide.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 4
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Operation of the 921, part 2

Now, back to the menu. Option 2 on the main menu "Staying in Touch" brings up the Caller ID History. I'd show you a screen shot of this, but I don't have caller ID on my land line…

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-2_staying_in_touch_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-2_staying_in_touch.jpg)

So, on to option 4. The preferences menu is where you define favorite lists, view and change your preferences, language settings, dolby digital settings, DVHS DishWire settings and closed caption settings. As you can see, the DishWire feature has not yet been activated. Let's take a look at the View Preferences option.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-4_preferences_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-4_preferences.jpg)

You can see the options that are set from this screen. I really wish they'd add the Timer Icon Popup option to the 5xx series of receivers. Here's page 2:

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-1.jpg)

I want to talk about the transparent guide and display. I think it's a really great idea, except it just doesn't work very well. I don't have a screenshot of it because it just doesn't look good yet. I think it has the potential to look really great in future software updates, but it's not there yet in my opinion. This is also the screen that you can adjust your horizontal and vertical screen position.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_preferences_screen-2.jpg)

The Favorites setup, Language setup, and DD setup are standard screens just like the other receivers. No changes, other than the look of the screens.

Here's the Closed Captioning screen. As you can see, lots of different options.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_closed_captioning_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_closed_captioning_screen.jpg)

And here's a shot of the closed captioning working on HBO-HD.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_cc_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_cc.jpg)

Now, back to the main menu and selecting the Locks option brings us to the Locks screen. Same options as the other receivers.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_locks_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_locks_screen.jpg)

Now let's take a look at the System Setup options from the Main Menu. Here's the System Info screen option, accessable from the menu here. The system information screen is also accessible from theSysInfo button on the front of the 921. Note, there is no SysInfo button on the remote.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-6_setup_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_menu-6_setup.jpg)

Software version L142 will not be the software version of the 921 when it ships. It's a pre-release beta version that I am testing. Overall it's pretty stable, but there are still a few issues that need to be fixed before shipping the 921 to the public.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_system_info_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_system_info_screen.jpg)

I like the look of the point dish screen. It's easier to navigate than on the 5xx series receivers.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_point_dish_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_point_dish_screen.jpg)

Here's the telephone setup screen. In the future, Dish may require all receivers be connected to a phone line in an attempt to cut down on signal theft. This'll be a tough requirement for me to meet, as I currently have 3 dish receivers sitting in the same location, and don't have a phone jack anywhere close to that location. My setup is in my finished basement, so running a new phone line through the walls isn't an option. So, when the day comes that I have to plug in the phone line to all of my receivers, I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Hopefully, Dish can come up with a solution to this problem. I'm all for cutting down on signal theft - the thieves deserve to be caught and shut down. Enough with the rant…

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_telephone_setup_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_telephone_setup_screen.jpg)

Here's the standard VCR setup option. Note - this isn't where you will set up a DVHS vcr for digital recording of high definition material via DishWire. That option is not yet enabled, but Dish has told me that it will be enabled as soon as possible. They are very aware of our desire to transfer HD material off of the 921 to DVHS.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_vcr_setup_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_vcr_setup_screen.jpg)

The Diagnostic tests screen is where you test your phone line connection. There is also an option called Hard Drive that isn't yet enabled, and I have no idea what it will test if and when it is enabled. Factory Defaults will reset your receiver settings to the default settings. Software Update shows the status of any software update you are receiving, as shown earlier in this review.

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 5
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Operation of the 921, part 3

So, let's now look at the local channel setup. This is what the local channel screen looks like after Digital channels have been added. Pressing Scan DTV will cause the 921 to scan for local OTA channels.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_local_channels_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_local_channels_screen.jpg)

The 921 scans from channel 2 to channel 69. The process takes between 3 and 4 minutes to complete. The channel counter updates as new channels are found. The bar graph is pretty, but I think I would have preferred a numerical counter as opposed to the graph so that I could see exactly which channels are added, and which ones are missed.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_scan_dtv_channels_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_scan_dtv_channels_screen.jpg)

Here's the Add DTV screen, where you manually add DTV channels. This is the only screen on the 921 where you will see a signal strength indicator for local digital channels. The 6000 used to display the signal strength in the channel banner. The 921 does not. I'm not sure what the 125 scale means - no other receiver that I know of uses a scale for signal strength above 100. So, it makes it difficult to directly compare local tuner sensitivity to other receivers. What I can say, though, is the 921 tuner is more sensitive than the 6000 8VSB tuner. In Denver, very few of us can receive our ABC station, channel 17 because they broadcast their signal from the top of their 6 story building downtown. I live 3 miles away from there, and could just barely receive their signal on the 6000. On the 921, I pick up their signal better, as the following screen shows:

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_add_dtv_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_add_dtv_screen.jpg)

For the Denver readers, this screen may be of interest to you. :)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_add_dtv_screen-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_add_dtv_screen-2.jpg)

Analog channels are added in the same manner. Here's the Scan ATV screen. This scan takes much less time to complete than the Scan Digital channels.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_scan_atv_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_scan_atv_screen.jpg)

And, here's the local channels screen with all of the analog channels added. The local channels show up at the beginning of the guide as 2-0, 2-1, etc.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_local_channels_screen_with_analogs_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_local_channels_screen_with_analogs.jpg)

And finally, let's look at the Display Setup. First of all, unlike the 811, the 921 does not simultaneously output HD via the component cables and SD via svideo or composite video. It's one or the other, and is switched with the HD/SD button on the remote control.

I have a 16x9 Sony HDTV, so I have the 921 set to 16x9 mode. A very interesting note - when set to 16x9 and 480i mode (when the receiver is in SD mode), and you are tuned to a HD channel, the video output is anamorphic, meaning your 16x9 television needs to be set to Full or Anamorphic mode as well to display the image correctly. This is new to me - on all previous dish receivers that I have used, the 16x9 function didn't do anything. Now it does. 16x9 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Stretch, Zoom and Gray Bars. 4x3#1 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Zoom, Letterbox (puts black bars on top and bottom of image) and Gray Bars (puts gray bars on top and bottom of image). 4x3#2 mode offers aspect ratios of Normal, Stretch, Zoom and Gray Bars. All aspect ratios are labled in the browse banner.

Also, unlike the 811 currently, the aspect ratios do work on the 921. By the time you read this, the 811 will probably be fixed, but it's not yet at the time of writing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_display_setup_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_display_setup_screen.jpg)

Here are some screen shots showing the different aspect ratios. What's interesting about the gray bars mode, is that the gray bars fade in over 2 or 3 seconds when the gray bars mode is selected.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_normal_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_normal_screen.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_stetch_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_stetch_screen.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_zoom_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_zoom_screen.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_gray_bars_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_AR_gray_bars_screen.jpg)

Ok, let's now look at the timer management screens. Pretty standard timer screen.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_management_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_management_screen.jpg)

Timers can be sorted in several different ways. Clicking on the Sort option brings us to the Timer Sort screen. Timers can be sorted alphabetically, by frequency (once, daily, weekly, etc.), by type (DVR, Reminder, VCR, etc) or by order they will be firing.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_sort_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_sort_screen.jpg)

Here's the first screen seen to create or edit a timer. The start and end pad options are new to me, as I'm coming from a 5xx background, but they're old hat to you 721 users.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_edit_screen-1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_edit_screen-1.jpg)

Here's the 2nd screen. Pretty standard.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_edit_screen-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_timer_edit_screen-2.jpg)

So, the next item on the menu is the Interactive TV. Under Interactive TV, we have Games and Weather. First, the Games. Nice selection of games to try out. Note that these are not the OpenTV games that are available on the 5xx series of receivers, as the 921 does not have OpenTV loaded yet.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_games_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_games_screen.jpg)

Now, the weather. I can see using this quite a bit. The list of cities that can be set look pretty extensive. The first weather screen is the 5 day forecast.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_weather_screen-1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_weather_screen-1.jpg)

Pressing the Current button will bring up the Current Conditions screen. It looks like the weather data is updated hourly.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_weather_screen-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_interactive_weather_screen-2.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 6
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Operation of the 921, part 4

So, that's it for the main menu options. Now, let's take a look at how the DVR options display on screen. First up, here's what appears when you press rewind. Rewind speeds of 4x, 15x, 60x and 300x are available. Same with Forward Fast.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_rewind_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_rewind_screen.jpg)

Here are the skip back and skip forward functions. Skip back is the standard 9 or 10 seconds, and skip forward is the standard 30 seconds. All DVR functions work very well with the HD material as well as with the SD material.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_skip_back_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_skip_back_screen.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_skip_forward_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_skip_forward_screen.jpg)

And pause.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_pause_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_pvr_pause_screen.jpg)

Here are the slow motion and frame advance functions. Slow motion control is accessed by pressing Pause, and then using the REW or FF DVR buttons. Reverse slow motion is available at 1/4th speed, while Forward slow motion is available at 1/15th speed and 1/4th speed.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-4th_back_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-4th_back.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-15th_forw_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-15th_forw.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-4th_forw_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_1-4th_forw.jpg)

Frame advance is controlled by pressing Pause, and then using the DVR functions Skip Back and Skip Forward to advance frames in the reverse or forward direction.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_frame-back_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_frame-back.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_frame-forw_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_frame-forw.jpg)

The browse banner is a big improvement over the 5xx series receivers. Let's take a look by pressing the browse button (right arrow button) on the remote. I really like the REC icon in the banner. I also really like the next show information displayed to the right of the current show information. It makes the browse banner very useful.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_browse_banner_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_browse_banner.jpg)

Pressing the Info button on the remote will display program information in 2 modes - transparent and opaque. Transparent is displayed first, then pressing info again will make the display opaque. Here are the screenshots showing the difference. Of course, you can cancel out after the transparent display if you like.

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_info_screen_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_info_screen.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_info_screen-2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_info_screen-2.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 7
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Operation of the 921, part 5

I've saved this one for the end of the review - OTA Digital recording… The 921 has the capability of recording over the air digital stations, and does it very well. But, currently there is no guide data provided for OTA stations. The 921 does not read PSIP guide data because stations around the country implement PSIP guide data differently. And, not all stations send PSIP guide data in their transmission signals. Only 2 of our stations here in Denver use PSIP to send out guide data, the others don't. So, how do you record OTA channels with no guide data? You have to set up manual recordings, rather than using the guide. Or, you can use the guide to set up a recording off of one of your satellite local channels and then edit the timer to change the channel to your OTA digital channel. That's worked some of the time for me. This isn't a bug, but it is a problem. And Dish Network is very aware that it's a problem. Unfortunately, it's a problem that won't be fixed until well into next year. Dish has a plan for solving the issue, but I'm not allowed to tell you that plan becuase of the terms of the NDA that I signed. I can tell you, though, that it's a very good plan that will make everyone happy once it's in place.

So, that's the basic operation of the 921 receiver. If you're still with me, I want to close this review talking about what's good about the receiver and what's not so good yet.

What's Good:

DVR functions work well with HD. HD recording from satellite works well (including 2 recordings simultaneously). OTA tuner sensitivity is better than the 6000, although it's difficult to tell how much better. The interface is well laid out to make navigation easy. The guide speed is faster than any other guide I've ever seen. The guide layout is great, with 7 lines of program information along with the tv display. The remote layout and key placement are very good. Aspect Ratios work in HD mode. 480p is an output option, rather than forcing upconversion of 480p to 1080i or 720p. Programming can be watched during software download. Can record HD from the OTA tuner. Fan noise is much less than with the 6000.

What's Not So Good

There are still some outstanding bugs that need to be fixed before the 921 will be completely stable. I'm purposefully not discussing them in this review because the receiver hasn't started shipping to the public yet, and because the bugs have been reported to Dish through the beta process. There's no Partial Zoom aspect ratio available. The DishWire hasn't been activated yet. Signal Strength for OTA digital channels doesn't display anywhere except in the local channel setup screens. No OpenTV yet. No OTA guide data yet. No Name-Based recording.

[Mark Lamutt]

Dish DVR-921, Page 8
Review By Mark Lamutt, DBSTalk Administrator
©Copyright 2003 www.DBSTalk.com, All Rights Reserved.

Update #1, 12-21-03

I've gone through all of the questions from the last week, and have gathered together the answers to those questions that I said I'd take a look at this weekend. They are presented here, along with some new screenshots.

Composite Video Inputs

The 921 has 1 set of composite video / RCA audio inputs on the back. A source connected to these inputs is selected by pressing 0 and Select from the remote. The video coming from the input is scaled to your selected display resolution (meaning if you have your display properties set to 1080i, the input video source is scaled to 1080i and output through component and DVI). The scaling doesn't look great, but it does happen. Recording from the input isn't possible.

Frame Advance Back and Forward DVR Functions

I looked at this much more closely, and it appears that the forward frame advance jumps ahead 1 frame at a time, while the reverse frame advance jumps back approximately 5 frames at a time or so.

OTA Local Digital Recording from Subchannels

The question was asked if the 921 records separately from different subchannels, or if the entire stream is recorded. Each digital subchannel is considered to be a different channel by the 921, and as such is available to be recorded separately.

Is there a Closed Captioning option "CC only when muted"?

No. CC is always on or always off.

What's the maximum number of timers that can be set?

I was able to set 64 timers before the following screen popped up:

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/maxtimers_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/maxtimers.jpg)

At that point, I had to delete a timer before I could add another one.

Separate memory for HD and SD, similar to 6000?

The answer to this one currently is no. If a HD channel is set to Normal mode, then SD channels will also be in Normal mode when the SD/HD button is pressed. One AR is active, whether you're watching HD or SD.

Using satellite locals to get program info for local OTA recordings

I had said in my review earlier that I had gotton this to work. I couldn't get it to work again in my testing this weekend. So, it appears that it's not possible (or at least not possible reliably) to set a timer to a satellite local channel, and then edit that timer to change the recording channel to a local OTA digital channel, and still retain the program information for the recording.

Recording OTA local digital channels

I did a lot of testing on this issue this weekend with regards to file sizes being recorded, and am pleased to bring you these results. Keep in mind that all of this data is approximate, as I don't have access to the actual size of recordings on the disk - all I have to go on is the approximate record time remaining as presented on the DVR screen.

I did 60 minute long test recordings on four different OTA channels: A 1080i channel broadcasting at 19.0 MB/s video bit rate, a 720p channel broadcasting at 12.752 MB/s VBR, a 480p channel broadcasting at 11.93 MB/s VBR, and a 480i channel broadcasting at 4.513 MB/s VBR.

The 60 minute 1080i 19.0 MB/s recording took 65 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 720p 12.752 MB/s recording took 47 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 480p 11.93 MB/s recording took 45 minutes of HD recording space.
The 60 minute 480i 4.513 MB/s recording took 18 minutes of HD recording space.

So, from this I draw this conclusion: The OTA recording capability of the 921 is much better than any of the current recording computer cards on the market today. With those cards, every OTA digital channel, no matter the resolution of the VBR record exactly the same size - around 8.2 GB/hr. The 921 obviously processes the transport stream, stripping out all of the wasted space to record smaller files while maintaining the necessary program information.

Does the 921 really have to have both satellite tuners connected?

I tried this...it wasn't pretty. You can't do a check switch if only one of the tuners is connected. If you have no way of running another line to where your 921 will go, then you'll have to wait for the DPP44 switch before getting a 921. There's no other way around it because the 2 tuner operation is integrated into so many different aspects of the programming it's not feasibly possible to run this box on one tuner only. That's the way it is.

Assign ABC/CBS/NBC to local Digital channel like on 6000?

This hasn't been implemented on the 921 like it was on the 6000, so there's no way to assign a major network to the local digital channels.

Locks question

I didn't test the locks, and don't want to because I'm not sure at this point whether I can get rid of the locks once they're put into place. I don't have complete documentation of the 921 yet, so I don't want to screw up my system with locks if I can't figure out how to make them go away after the test.

Does the 6000 have more favorite list storage than the 6000?

I would assume so. The 921 has 4 user editable favorite lists available, and I added all of the channels to all four of the lists, and everything worked fine. If that wasn't the intent of the question, let me know.

Does the OTA side of the box work without a satellite tuner connected? What about DVR recordings?

I can't answer the first part of this yet. Look for an answer after the 1st of the year.

I can, however, answer that the DVR recording are available with no satellite tuner connected. When the 921 is powered on without the tuners connected, it comes up to just a black screen. But, pressing the DVR button brings up the DVR list, and all recordings can be viewed.

Triple Timer resolution

The 921, like the 721, has triple timer resolution. The following screenshots show the timer resolution screens:

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/triple_conflict_1_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/triple_conflict_1.jpg)

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/triple_conflict_2_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/triple_conflict_2.jpg)

Pause Buffer

Sorry about the pause buffer confusion I caused earlier this week. The pause buffer is in fact 120 minutes for both HD and SD recorded material. Here's the screenshot:

http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/pause_buffer_small.jpg (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/pause_buffer.jpg)

[Mark Lamutt]

This space reserved for review updates.

I've had the 921 since Friday afternoon, the 12th, and have spent just about every waking minute since putting it through it's paces. If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them if I can. Please be advised that there are issues that I can't discuss due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement that I've signed with Dish Network to beta test the 921.

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome all of the people coming to DBSTalk for the first time to read this review! We're glad you're here, and hope you enjoy your stay! :hi:

[Scott Greczkowski]

So what is the one big bug it has, you have been posting all over the place about the big bug.

Since the 921 is being released this week they should know what to expect.

Congrats Mark! :)

[Cyclone]

I wonder if the 16x9 Aspect Ratio setting actually does anything this time?

[Mark Lamutt]

Cyclone - read page 5 of my review. It does. :)

Scott - I still can't say what the big bug is, but I can say that about 35 minutes ago I received word from the engineers that the bug has been reproduced and identified and that they are working on the fix now.

[clapple]

IT's ALIVE!! IT's ALIVE!! ;)

Actually, I can't wait. But will have to wait for the new switch (44+ ?? ). that allows one cable input. No reasonable way to run another cable.

[John Kotches]

Did you have opportunity to test Firewire input/output. It would be nice to archive from internal HD to D-VHS, as well as to pass D-VHS MPEG data to the 921, so that you can use DVI out and a single cable, instead of seperate cables.

Cheers,

[Mark Lamutt]

Firewire is not enabled in software version L1.42. The option is disabled on the menu at this point in time - take a look at page 4 of the review, the second screenshot.

[santellavision]

Mark,

What about PQ? 1) HD Compared to the 6000. 2) Upconverting SD to 720p or 1080i?

[Mark Lamutt]

Picture quality is excellent on both the HD and SD side. The SD picture quality, with the display settings set to output 480p is the best I've ever seen a Dish receiver output. HD isn't significantly different than it was with the 6000. 480i SD output via svideo is slightly better than watching via svideo from my 508s, but not noticibly different.

There are a number of people that have reported that the svideo output on the 811 is much darker than it should be. I can report that this isn't a problem with the 921.

SD upconversion to 1080i isn't as good as SD upconverted to 480p. It's not bad, just doesn't look as good. Here's an example. I have always refused to watch SD football off of Dish channels because the distance shots just look awful. On Sunday, watching football converted to 480p on the 921 was actually a pleasant experience. Certainly not nearly so as HD, but the 480p output from the 921 looks better than my analog cable signal and a hell of a lot better than 480i from my 508s.


When do you want to come over and see it Ernie? :D

[mcowher]

Will the 921 EVER output to SD and HD simultaneously, or is it a hardware limitation.

What about the RF output? Can this output simultaneously with HD?

[nclee]

Thanks for the review.
I have one question, how noisy is the disk drive during the operation? I like my humble 501 except the buzzing sound it creates.

[Mark Lamutt]

I'm working on getting the answers to your questions now mcowher. I don't know yet. I'll post them when I do know.

[JMikeF]

Mark,
Awesome review - thanks.
Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.

[Mark Lamutt]

Thanks for the review.
I have one question, how noisy is the disk drive during the operation? I like my humble 501 except the buzzing sound it creates.

I have the 921 installed in an audio cabinet behind a glass door. I can very slightly hear the fan running when the room is dead quiet. I can't hear the hard drive at all.

The slight fan noise is why I put in the review that the 921 *might* not be suitable for a bedroom application, but should be perfectably acceptable for a home theater room or living room application.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,
Awesome review - thanks.
Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.

Thanks, Mike. I put some real work into this beast, in addition to the testing I've done since Friday. I've logged almost 40 hours of 921 use since Friday night at 9:00pm.

I was a little concerned that Dish would have trouble tracking down the bug, but they found it this morning. At this point, they should be able to get it fixed pretty quickly.

[tahoerob]

Picture quality is excellent on both the HD and SD side. The SD picture quality, with the display settings set to output 480p is the best I've ever seen a Dish receiver output. .......:D

Is there an output button on the remote to easily change from 1080i to 480p, say when changing from HDNet to Food Network????

Do the OTA DTV channels integrate with the Dish locals??
Ex. Dish local ABC 7, then next channel is OTA 7-01???

I am glad o hear that the 8vsb seems to be better for those of us who live >50mi from towers!

[Lee L]

Wow, cool Mark.

The one thing that is a real downer is the fact that they have not worked anything out as far as OTA guide data. This is the first time this limitation has been brought up anywhere and they have eluded to the fact that the guide would provide this functionality. They are going to catch a ton of flak if the HD DTivo can do this and they are still "working on a solution".

[BobMurdoch]

Define "quickly" please..... (and I'm assuming this is going to keep holding up the release?)

[ibglowin]

Thanks Mark,

Great review!

......please Santa, please, please, please.......

It sounds like it has shipped with fewer bugs than the 811. Lets hope.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Mark,
Awesome review - thanks.
Looks like a winner, if DISH truly fixes the major bug.

It looks like a 721 on steroids. :)

partial bug description deleted - Dish has asked that that information not be made public knowledge until it's been fixed - ML

And I am told by Dish that they have found the cause of the problem and are working on a fix for it now. :D

[BarryO]

This sounds like a awesome product; exactly the thing I've bee waiting to replace my 6000 with.

Mark, thanks for the extensive review. This must have been alot of work.

And hats off to the 921 development team on the imminant birth of their new "baby". I've tracked down enough bugs myself to know that reproducing them is always the hardest part. Hopefully they'll be able to get some units out to some of us soon.

[Mark Lamutt]

Tahoerob - unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. There may be in the future, but the only way I've found to change from 1080i to 480p is through the menu display options.

Lee L - very true...

BobMurdoch - "quickly" means most likely in the next day or two they'll have this bug fixed. Then we test for a few days to make sure the fix didn't break anything else.

ibglowin - the 921 hasn't shipped yet. Very soon now, though!

Scott - Dish specifically asked me not to talk about the bug until it's been fixed.

BarryO - yup...but it was well worth it! I wanted you guys to have the best, non-hype from Dish or other sources, information available about this receiver as soon as possible.

[BobMurdoch]

So we are now looking at NEXT week for release?

[Danny R]

Some questions:

It appears from your review that you can watch analog OTA channels. Is this correct? I'm assuming you can't record them, and have no guide data.

What function do the composite video and corresponding audio inputs on the back serve? Do they allow you to convert the signal coming in to component out? How do you select that inputs to view what's coming in? Is that a remote function? Again, I'm assuming no record ability for this input.

You've said you can't comment on how guide data will be linked to digital channels. My suggestion is to somehow be able to link a guide channel to the OTA material. Thus I can use the local channel guide already available but get the HD material (which is often the same). Please forward that request.

And finally, I'm still not clear on how you select what outputs you use. Is HD content always shown at 1080i, and the SD content is shown as listed in the display settings window, or is there a separate display setting for both HD and SD modes, or is the screen you showed the output that is sent no matter what, and the HD/SD button only toggles between S-video and component?

Is it possible to have the receiver show HD content normally at 1080i, and then when you change to a SD channel output a 480p signal over the component outs without going into the menu and changing something?

[dmodemd]

Scott gave some speculation after his Baltimore visit that Dish would be providing guide data in the stream for local OTA channels and that you would map it by entering in call letters when you add your channel.

Presumably they can leverage all the guide data they provide for local markets they are already in. Potential issues:

- Need to provide guide data now for DMAs they may not be in (or maybe they won't)
- Need to provide guide data for subchannels
- Sometimes guide info is different on the digital channels than it is on the analog channels, so needs to be a digital specific info.
- Most sources of digital guide data today are very incomplete and not very accurate

Lee

[Danny R]

Tahoerob - unfortunately, not that I'm aware of. There may be in the future, but the only way I've found to change from 1080i to 480p is through the menu display options.

If you have it set for 480p and turn to a 1080i HD show, the signal is downconverted to 480p on component video?

[MikeHDTulsa]

Mark thanks for the great review and my question is how do the girls look on bikini destinations when you pause the picture????? You know on the 508 the paused images look blurry if there are to many moving objects on the screen I just wandered if the pause works better in HD?

[JMikeF]

Then we test for a few days to make sure the fix didn't break anything else. Uggh - regression testing. Know it well & hate it. Hope they've been able to automate some of it.

[Mark Lamutt]

Bob - I'm really hoping that the release of the 921 will be sooner than later. I wish I could say that yes definitely the 921 will be out next week. But, I can't because I'm not the one that makes the decision. If the one bug gets squashed, then the other bugs are more minor annoyances than anything else and it could be ready to ship.

Danny R - Yes, you can watch local analog channels, but can't record them. I don't know about the input on the back, as I haven't tried it yet. I'll try to take a look at that this weekend - please PM me to remind me, though if you would. I can't talk about guide data details, but it's something along the lines of dmodemd's post. HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i. I don't believe you can assign one HD output selection to one channel, and another one to another channel. This may be a possibility in the future, though. I'd suggest posting a REQ post asking for it.
And, if you are set to display 480p and tune to a 1080i show, yes the 1080i is downconverted to 480p.

MikeHDTulsa - :smoking: :dance:

[b5lurker]

Thanks for the great review Mark!

Have to figured out what the maximum recording amount for HD is yet? Just curious if you are able to get a bit more then the 20 hours or so that I have heard.

Any info on how the rest of Denver Dish people can get a hold of the 921? :D

Steve

[Mark Lamutt]

Steve - I had just under 23 hours recorded at one point over the weekend when it filled up. As with SD, it'll vary based on what channel is being recorded, and what's showing on what channel. Video bit rates vary quite a bit on Dish HD channels.

[BobMurdoch]

The only guaranteed way is to storm Mark's house, ply him with alcohol and abscond with it while he is "sleeping it off".

:grin:

[Danny R]

HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i. ... And, if you are set to display 480p and tune to a 1080i show, yes the 1080i is downconverted to 480p.

So what you are saying is that the component outputs ALWAYS display at the resolution you set in the Display Settings. If its set for 1080i, then any channel gets upconverted. If its set for 480i, then every channel gets downconverted, etc and there is no way to have variable output based on the original source?

[Mark Lamutt]

Danny, right now that's my understanding and what I've seen in my testing.

[Clinton Fields]

Mark, under the bad things about the unit, you left out the fact that there is no name based recording. Do you know if Dish is addressing that issue or are we left with the fact that when networks change their schedule and we are unaware, SOL for us.

[Mark Lamutt]

Good point, Mr. Jedi. :)

I'll add it to the review. I know of no definite plans to address this issue at this time (and frankly, if I did know about plans on this, I'd have to say exactly what I just said because of the NDA).

[SLONGO]

Mark,
Thanks for the very comprehensive review ! Just a PVR function question, please.
I too, have a 508 and have noticed that it's skip-back function from pause is not a frame skip like formerly, but now jumps back some 10 seconds or so.
Have you found this to be the case with the 921 ?

Thanks again,
Steve Longo

[Mark Lamutt]

SLONGO, when I was writing the review, I used the reverse frame advance several times (in order to get the best screenshot), and it looked like I was going back one frame at a time. But, I can't say absolutely for sure, because I wasn't specifically looking for that. I'll add it to the list of things to look at later on. Please PM me to remind me, if you would.

[bhroam]

Thanks for the review Mark, I'm drooling all over myself now =]

As for Name Based Recording, didn't we hear something in the Nov Tech Chat about how DN is looking into it now? My guess is that means we won't see it in the near future.

[Mark Lamutt]

Believe me, I drooled all over myself all weekend using this box. :D

Dish did say they were looking at named based recording during the last tech chat. That's all I know about it at this point.

[Enigma]

Mark,

Does the 921 have the same issue as the 6000 as far as when watching an OTA channel for a period of time, then hitting the guide button resulting in either an error message or an "aquiring sat signal" message for 2 minutes or so? That has been the thing with the 6000 which is most annoying.

Enigma

[Mark Lamutt]

Enigma,

[slaps head] :nono:
Can't believe I forgot to check for that! That's on my list to check tonight. I'll let you all know.

[scooper]

THank you Mark - for the comprehensive review...

[dbdsac]

I realize the 921's will be initially released to the retailers in limited quantities. Do we know which retailers will receive the first shipments? Will Dish be selling them directly?

[clearblue_71]

Hi All

First post here, so bear with me if I'm posting in the wrong area.

First off, thanks Mark for your review. I'm sure there are lots of us out here who appreciate all the time you've dedicated to introducing everyone to the 921.

I still have a couple questions though, and perhaps someone can help.

Once the 921 does get released, how does one go about getting it? Contact Dish Network directly? or is there a better place to go? Is there a waiting list somewhere?

Second, will I need to run 2 coax cables from the superdish outside to use the 921? If this is the case, what about my existing 501PVR which only needs a single coax? What's this about the new switch (44+) someone posted about earlier?

I hope I haven't just asked questions that have been asked/answered a 1000 times before!

Thanks much

Ryan

[Danny R]

There are a number of places you can get it. You can call Dish directly and they will refer you to a local installer. Likewise you can call the local retailers directly. Some big chain stores like Sears may or may not have it as well. Finally a number of internet retailers are also likely to carry the thing, such as DishDepot, etc.

The superdish generates 3 cables, one for each satellite position. These go into a Dishpro34 switch (http://dishdepot.com/Cart/description.php?II=492539&UID=20031216142257170.140.225.2) that feeds up to 4 receivers. Two of those cables go to your 921. One of them goes to your 501. Don't confuse the Superdish with the standard Dish500.

The purpose of a Dishpro44 switch is to gather 4 satellite positions and combine the signal and feed it to 4 receivers. Thus you can have a superdish pointing toward 110,119 and whichever 3rd satellite your model supports, and a second dish pointing to 61.5 or 148 on the sides.

[clearblue_71]

Thanks for the reply. This clears up a whole lot for me..

I'm getting upgraded from dish500 to superdish early next year to receive my local channels, so I should be OK there.

Sounds like I'm going to need get out my grungy clothes start climbing around the crawl space to add the new cable.

Thanks again for your help

[tm22721]

Great review Mark.

I've had my order in with DishDepot since the first minute of pre-orders. It's been a long hard road for this puppy.

[MikeHDTulsa]

Mark, I don't think you need to worry about testing to see if you get the acquiring satellite signal when you go to guide after a OTA channel on the 921 because it stores its guide info on the hard drive and it has two satellite tuners that it could use to get guide info while you are on a OTA channel where the 6000 can not access the satellite while you are on a OTA channel.

[Mark Lamutt]

You're probably right, Mike. Very likely the acquiring satellite signal won't be a problem with the 921.

[phaseshift]

HD content is always shown at either 1080i, 720p OR 480p. SD content is always shown at 480i.

SD content is always 480i? Do you know if that's true on the DVI output as well?

I have one of the Samsung DLP rear projectors that have DVI, and a DVD player with DVI. I just ran a little test, switching the output resolution of the DVD player, and unless I'm doing something wrong, the Samsung only accepts 720p on the DVI port.

The component inputs are odd as well: Component 1 accepts 480i & 480p but not HD signals, and Components 2 & 3 accept 1080i, 720p, 480p, but not 480i. There is no input that accepts all four formats. So if all SD is output at 480i, that means I'd have to switch inputs on the TV to switch from HD to SD.

Mark, is that right?

[Mark Lamutt]

Let me be a little more specific with my reply - SD (480i) is by definition on the 921 only output via the svideo, composite video and RF ports. HD (480p, 720p, 1080i) is by definition on the 921 only output via the component video or DVI port (or possibly both simultaneously - still have to test that one).

If you are watching SD material, but viewing output from the component cables or DVI port (ie the 921 is in HD mode, tuned to a SD channel), then the 921 upconverts the 480i SD channel to either 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on how you have the display settings set.

The reverse is also true - if you are watching a HD channel, but have the 921 in SD mode, then the 921 downconverts the HD channel (1080i or 720p) to 480i for output through the svideo, composite video or RF port.

Does that make it more clear?

[A_Pac]

Sorry if you already covered this but does picture in picture work?

[Lee L]

Another thing to check Mark, if you would. What happens when you record an OTA HD channel in regards to subchannels. Do you get to pick whether to record say subchannel 5-01, 5-02 or 5-03, then play that recording back later (of course, without the ability to see what was on the other subchannel) or does it record all subchannels, then let you pick which to view later?

[Mark Lamutt]

A Pac - picture in picture works well in standard definition mode. The hardware can't support doing it in high definition mode. However, high definition channels do display in the tv window in the upper right corner of the screens.

Lee L - each subchannel is considered a different "channel" to the 921 at this point I think. In Denver, there's only one station that I can receive that has more than one subchannel. If I record off of channel 17-1, I don't believe it also records the 17-2 stream, or vice versa. But I don't know that for certain. I'll add it to the list of things to verify.

[Matt Stevens]

Mark, exceptional review. Well done. Comments...

The inability to pass 720p as 720p and 1080i as 1080i without going into the menu and switching the output is a serious limitation. With a number of channels now doing 720p, some TV/Display manufacturers are going to start supporting 720p. Therefore the ultimate receiver would allow for native passthrough. Would you be able to pass the word along and let E* know this feature is wanted?

I'm curious about the Firewire function, even though it is not on yet. Once it is I am hoping that it can allow you to dump to D-VHS and watch a live or recorded program at the same time.

[Mark Lamutt]

Matt,

There's already a REQ (feature request) thread about the pass through output issue. Feel free to add your support to it if you like.

Why don't you post another REQ thread detailing what you'd like to see with the firewire fuction here in this forum. Be specific, as the Dish programmers will be reading it.

Thanks for the compliment. This review was a lot of work, but I loved every second of it.

[Nick]

This is great, Mark. The 921 forum and your "excellent review" were well worth the suspense -- and the wait. This forum is a timely and welcome addition to the DBSTalk forum categories lineup.

As Clapple said above, I am going to wait for the sw44 before I pop a grand for the 921, but I will definitely get it! HD on my new 811 & panny is fantastic, but getting used to not having PVR capability has been tough. I either miss part of an HD program, or I miss doing the little stuff like taking a leak, fixing a snack, taking a call, taking a leak. taking a smoke (outside), answering a knock on the door and - did I say - taking a leak! :grin:


HD = Happy Days! :)

[TowJumper]

Wonderful Review!

Thank you Mark for your time away from the 921 to write this up. :D

[kls]

Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?

[krt]

Mark,

Thanks for writing this review. I do have a few questions.

1. Does the 921 have a separate memory for HD and SD aspect ratios, similar to the 6000? i.e. If one sets a HD channel to normal mode, and a SD channel to stretch mode, all HD and SD channels automatically retain their respective settings. Also, does the 921 remote have a way to select a discrete aspect ratio? Or does one have to cycle though them using the * key like the 6000?

2. Are there plans to add the OTA signal strength indicator into the channel banner of the 921, like the 6000?

3. Do the icons for pause, ff, rew, etc. automatically go away after 1-2 seconds of a remote button press, like many DVD players? Or do these icons stay on the screen until play is pressed, like the 50x PVRs?

4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this.


Thanks again.

[peterd]

Mark,

Thanks for the review. Here are my questions.

1. (The biggie!) You mentioned a workaround for OTA timers by setting to another listing using the guide, then editing the channel #. When you do that, is the program info preserved? (In other words - if I set a timer to record CSI from an LIL SD feed, then edited the channel # to my OTA (HD) channel for the same station will "CSI" appear in the list of recordings?)

2.Is one of the Closed Captioning options "CC only when muted?"

3. Have you found (or has Dish confirmed) a limit to the # of timers set at once?

Thanks,
Peter

[jcord51]

Very nice review. Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF. Did they provide you with two remotes?

[Allen Noland]

Can you tell if recording a Fox 480p widescreen program takes less space than a cbs 1080i or abc 720p recording?

btw, great review. Hopefully I'll have mine soon. It will look good next to my 721.

[DanB33]

Mark,
Thanks for the review.
As for the telephone line with multiple eceivers. I have a single to dual phoneplug that is designed to put in a phone wall jack. But if you put it in the receivers phonejack, you now have two phonejacks on the receiver. You then just run short phone cords between machines.
I believe I got it at Radio Shack, but it may be available where phone instulation accessories are sold.

James Daniel Bishop

[Evil Capserian]

I would love a 921 under my Christmas Tree. Maybe Santa Charlie will bring me one this year. Or should I not hold my breath?

[Bill R]

Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF.
I can't understand that myself. As popular as IR universal learning remotes are I would think that a high end receiver like the 921 would come with a remote that does both IR and UHF. The 921 receiver can use the (older) IR remotes but the new "UHF Pro" remotes just don't send IR.

[Jetlag]

Mark, you realize of course that you will now be spending all of your time answering our questions instead of enjoying your new 921! :lol:

BTW, :crying: :crying: :crying: I'm not at all envious :crying: :crying: :crying:

[tnsprin]

Mark,
Great review.

Is "THE BUG" so bad that we should be quiet and wait, or should we be pressing Dish to start releasing the 921's ASAP.

[Mark Lamutt]

Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?

There is a panel on the front of the 921, but it doesn't appear to open easily, and I'm not about to try to force it open and end up breaking it. :)

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

Thanks for writing this review. I do have a few questions.

1. Does the 921 have a separate memory for HD and SD aspect ratios, similar to the 6000? i.e. If one sets a HD channel to normal mode, and a SD channel to stretch mode, all HD and SD channels automatically retain their respective settings. Also, does the 921 remote have a way to select a discrete aspect ratio? Or does one have to cycle though them using the * key like the 6000?

2. Are there plans to add the OTA signal strength indicator into the channel banner of the 921, like the 6000?

3. Do the icons for pause, ff, rew, etc. automatically go away after 1-2 seconds of a remote button press, like many DVD players? Or do these icons stay on the screen until play is pressed, like the 50x PVRs?

4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this.


1. I'm going to do some more testing with this to see if I can get the 921 to retain the separate settings. That's on the list for this weekend.

2. This falls under terms of the NDA, so I can't discuss it. Personally, I hope so, but can't say more than that.

3. Most of them stay on the screen, but the frame advance icons fade away after a second or two.

4. Not excactly clear about what you're asking. Please give me an example of what you want to do, and I'll try it.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

Thanks for the review. Here are my questions.

1. (The biggie!) You mentioned a workaround for OTA timers by setting to another listing using the guide, then editing the channel #. When you do that, is the program info preserved? (In other words - if I set a timer to record CSI from an LIL SD feed, then edited the channel # to my OTA (HD) channel for the same station will "CSI" appear in the list of recordings?)

2.Is one of the Closed Captioning options "CC only when muted?"

3. Have you found (or has Dish confirmed) a limit to the # of timers set at once?

Thanks,
Peter

Peter, I'll add all three of your questions to my testing list for the weekend. I've gotton #1 to work a couple of times, but am not comfortable enough to say Yes, it will work. #2 and #3 I don't yet know.

[Mark Lamutt]

Very nice review. Too bad about the remote control only using UHF. I have an MX-500 which I truely love. I don't see why they made the unit only work with UHF. Did they provide you with two remotes?

If you have one of the other Dish remotes, you can use it to teach your MX500 most of the IR codes. My plan is to provide a complete IR code database for all 921 functions for all address in the philips pronto format. This is going to take me some time to put together, but I think it will be a big help to alot of people. If you have the IR Clone utility, you'll be able to use the codes I provide.

I already have 3 other dish remotes, and have borrowed a 721 remote to use temporarily to get the IR codes from the PIP functions.

[Mark Lamutt]

Can you tell if recording a Fox 480p widescreen program takes less space than a cbs 1080i or abc 720p recording?

btw, great review. Hopefully I'll have mine soon. It will look good next to my 721.

No, I can't really tell, but I suspect that it will because of the way 8VSB OTA signals are sent. I know that my hipix cards record exactly the same size recording for a 480p broadcast vs a 1080i broadcast. I'll add it to my testing list this weekend, though and see.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark, you realize of course that you will now be spending all of your time answering our questions instead of enjoying your new 921! :lol:

BTW, :crying: :crying: :crying: I'm not at all envious :crying: :crying: :crying:

I volunteered for this job, even Tim! Good thing I love it! And you wouldn't believe how much hand in hand beta testing and review writing go...it's a great way to root out bugs when trying every function you can think of to review.

Fortunately, the 921 records in the background so I can still play with it!

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,
Great review.

Is "THE BUG" so bad that we should be quiet and wait, or should we be pressing Dish to start releasing the 921's ASAP.

The BUG is being fixed as I type this, so it most likely will be a moot point. Stand by...

[Mark Lamutt]

Note: I have corrected an error on Page 3 of the review. The HD pause buffer is 120 minutes long, not 10 minutes long as I originally posted.

[fr8flyr]

Thanks Mark, Great review.

Earl

[JoeQ]

Steve - I had just under 23 hours recorded at one point over the weekend when it filled up. As with SD, it'll vary based on what channel is being recorded, and what's showing on what channel. Video bit rates vary quite a bit on Dish HD channels.


Mark a bit more clarification please on a few items.
1) For HD broadcasts, it is roughly 8 GB/hour so 23 hours = 184 GB.
So, I assume this is using a 200 GB drive?

2) Any idea what the USB port is for?
Is it USB 1.1 or 2.?

3) I currently use an SW21 to receive 110,119 and 61.5. One goes to my 6000 the other to my 5000.

Can I still use that SW21 output for the 921?

Will the 921 work if you only hook up 1 of the inputs?
If not, is this to be addressed in a future release?
Not a facetious question. For me, being able to record ONE thing while watching a pre-recorded item is all I really need. Hate the thought of more dishes/lnbs/cables to be able to use a second receiver.


4) Is the OSD still as slow to Navigate as the 6000?

5) How far ahead is the program guide? You know, go past 3 hours on the OSD and you get the dreaded 'PLEASE WAIT'.

6) When you do get the "Please Wait" message, is it any faster than on the 6000 in downloaing the info"

7) If you press the button on the program guide to get info on a show, the 6000 ( and my 5000) always takes forever. Is this any quicker on the 921?


Thanks for a great review.

[phaseshift]

With a number of channels now doing 720p, some TV/Display manufacturers are going to start supporting 720p.

Agreed. In fact, most fixed-pixel displays, such as my DLP, are 720p native.

I've had the set for a couple of months, and I wanted to wait for the 921, so I don't currently have an HD receiver from Dish. I temporarily signed up with Cablevision to get some limited HD until I can get my hands on a 921.

I get best results when I set the output of the Motorola cable box to the resolution of the transmission. If it's CBS, NBC, HBO or Showtime, setting the cable box to 1080i and letting the TV handle the conversion with its Faroujda chipset creates a noticable sharper picture than setting the cable box at the TV's native 720p.

And obviously, ABC and ESPN-HD look better at 720p, since that's how they're transmitted AND its the same as the TV's native resolution.

I imagine I'll have to manually change the 921 unless Dish revises this function.

[phaseshift]

If you are watching SD material, but viewing output from the component cables or DVI port (ie the 921 is in HD mode, tuned to a SD channel), then the 921 upconverts the 480i SD channel to either 480p, 720p or 1080i depending on how you have the display settings set.


Thank you, Mark. I was hoping you'd say that. :joy:

[Allen Noland]

Mark,

How does the 921 handle recording Digital OTA if the single is marginal. One of the stations here in Tulsa is broadcasting with a STA at 1/3rd power. I only get a 65-75 signal strength on my 6000 and I notices some picture freezes and pixels every now and then. I know back in the early days of the 501 if you lost signal do to rain fade it would lock it up. Does the 921 handle signal fade Ok.

And a follow up to the recording space. 2 of the stations in tulsa run a SD (480i) sub channel? Can you determin the space required to record from subs.

And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark a bit more clarification please on a few items.
1) For HD broadcasts, it is roughly 8 GB/hour so 23 hours = 184 GB.
So, I assume this is using a 200 GB drive?

2) Any idea what the USB port is for?
Is it USB 1.1 or 2.?

3) I currently use an SW21 to receive 110,119 and 61.5. One goes to my 6000 the other to my 5000.

Can I still use that SW21 output for the 921?

Will the 921 work if you only hook up 1 of the inputs?
If not, is this to be addressed in a future release?
Not a facetious question. For me, being able to record ONE thing while watching a pre-recorded item is all I really need. Hate the thought of more dishes/lnbs/cables to be able to use a second receiver.


4) Is the OSD still as slow to Navigate as the 6000?

5) How far ahead is the program guide? You know, go past 3 hours on the OSD and you get the dreaded 'PLEASE WAIT'.

6) When you do get the "Please Wait" message, is it any faster than on the 6000 in downloaing the info"

7) If you press the button on the program guide to get info on a show, the 6000 ( and my 5000) always takes forever. Is this any quicker on the 921?


1. The 921 has a 250 GB hard drive. Keep in mind that with the 120 minute buffer, that's somewhere between 16 and 20 GB reserved space for it, then the guide data takes up space, and the Linux OS takes up space. The recording time will vary based on what HD source is being recorded as well. Next week sometime I'll try to fill up the hard drive with just OTA recording and see how much will fit.

2. I have no idea about the USB port. But, even if I did, I probably couldn't say because of the NDA.

3. Yes, you should be able to use that switch setup, but you MUST have both satellite tuners plugged in. I have no information about that ever changing.

4. Everything about this unit is fast, fast, fast. The guide is the fastest thing I've ever scrolled through, as is the osd - menus and the like. The 921 literally blows the 6000 out of the water.

5. Program guide goes out almost 9 days, just like the other Dish PVR receivers.

6. No Please Wait messages because the guide is stored on the hard drive locally. I suppose if you let the guide get out of data, then it would force a Please Wait to get an update. But I haven't run into that.

7. Much faster. :)

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

How does the 921 handle recording Digital OTA if the single is marginal. One of the stations here in Tulsa is broadcasting with a STA at 1/3rd power. I only get a 65-75 signal strength on my 6000 and I notices some picture freezes and pixels every now and then. I know back in the early days of the 501 if you lost signal do to rain fade it would lock it up. Does the 921 handle signal fade Ok.

And a follow up to the recording space. 2 of the stations in tulsa run a SD (480i) sub channel? Can you determin the space required to record from subs.

And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?

I'll get back to you next week in answer to your first question.

I have no idea about signal fade due to the weather. I've only had the 921 since Friday, and haven't lost signal in that time due to weather.

I'll add your other questions to the weekend list. Don't know the answers yet.

[EdV]

Mark,

Regarding the missing guide info for OTA. The 921 has inherited the same limitation that's in the 6000/811. However, If you go to the local stations setup screen and manually add an analog station, it allows you to assign it to abc, cbs or nbc, and the guide will show the correct programming info for the prime time shows. What's strange is that if you manually add a digital station, it doesn't give you that option.

That said, for those of us that don't subscribe to E* locals, it could provide a workaround. For each digital OTA local, add an analog local with the same channel number (even if you can't receive it) and give it a name that corresponds with the network name. It will then appear in the guide colored grey, followed by the digital station in yellow. So for the three major networks, you can select the fake analog channel from the prime time guide to create a timer and then edit the timer's channel number to the digital channel. Might even be able to set up three macro keys on a programmable remote (one for each network) to create the timer and change the channel setting automatically.

I'm sure that in the long run, E* plans to allow you to map a local ota station to your local lil station number (even if you don't subscribe to locals). This would provide the most accurate guide data. But in the short run, I don't know what's so difficult about allowing you to assign one of the three networks to a digital local like they do for the analog locals.

The only thing I don't know is whether the prime time guide data is accurate for your time zone based on the zip code from the setup screen. It's correct for me in the East.

[Mike Russell]

Mark, this might help you on the phone line deal. I have a 721,501 and a 6000 all hooked to the same tv. I bought a wireless phone jack at Lowes (GE I believe) and I have it plugged in near my receivers. I just bought a little cheap plugin with 3 outlets and I plugged in 3 cords,1 to each receiver and all 3 caller-id's work great. Mike

[Bradtothebone]

Mark, all great info - thanks so much!

Please clarify one thing for those of us with thick heads: My understanding is that the 921 will ACCEPT IR commands, but that the supplied remote doesn't GENERATE them. Is that correct? Are all the IR codes (with the exception of DVR functions) the same as for "blue button" remotes? Thanks for your help.

Brad

[BobMurdoch]

Note: I have corrected an error on Page 3 of the review. The HD pause buffer is 120 minutes long, not 10 minutes long as I originally posted.

Whew. That one made me nervous for a sec. I often pause a show for up toa half hour or more to build up a buffer to skip commercials while I eat dinner, visit the "library", or watch another show while keeping the PIP window open.

10 minutes would hae been nowhere near enough time......

[Slordak]

Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?

Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).

Realistically, there's no reason why it shouldn't support this, unless the software specifically bars it and won't function if only one feed is hooked up. On existing receivers, if one runs a "Check Switch" and it partially fails, one can still use the satellites and switch modes which were found to operate correctly. One would expect the 921 to be much the same; have any beta testers tested it to see what happens if the 921 has only one feed hooked up and one then re-runs the input detection?

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark, all great info - thanks so much!

Please clarify one thing for those of us with thick heads: My understanding is that the 921 will ACCEPT IR commands, but that the supplied remote doesn't GENERATE them. Is that correct? Are all the IR codes (with the exception of DVR functions) the same as for "blue button" remotes? Thanks for your help.

Brad

All of that is correct. The DVR functions are also the same IR commands as the the Dish platinum remotes. And the PIP fuctions are the same as on the Dish 721 remote.

[Mark Lamutt]

Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?

Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).

Realistically, there's no reason why it shouldn't support this, unless the software specifically bars it and won't function if only one feed is hooked up. On existing receivers, if one runs a "Check Switch" and it partially fails, one can still use the satellites and switch modes which were found to operate correctly. One would expect the 921 to be much the same; have any beta testers tested it to see what happens if the 921 has only one feed hooked up and one then re-runs the input detection?

Added to the list for this weekend's testing session (boy, it's starting to get long too!) :)

[BarryO]

Regarding the statement about the 921 absolutely having to have two separate satellite feeds to function, surely there must be some kind of mistake? Has anyone explicitly asked Dish Network about this? Why would this be designed like this?

This was covered in the last Tech Chat. They dropped support for just one feed because they ran into too many "corner cases" to deal with (e.g., what happens if the user attempts to do this particular thing that requires two feeds, etc.). It must have been consuming alot of debug time, for something they judged to be relatively low priority.

Undoubtedly there are many individuals who have no problem using the 921 in a limited single-feed mode (at least temporarily). Going onto the roof to install a new DP34 or DP44 and then run additional wiring through the basement, up through the walls, and to the receiver is not exactly a task that most folks look forward to (myself included), especially in winter. It seems as if the receiver should be able to still be used with only a single feed (plus the over the air antenna, if desired).


The DP44+ is supposed to solve the single-cable issue when it comes out.

I'm glad that, when the remodelers ripped out most of the drywall fom my place this summer, I ran 4 cables from the outside to the distribution panel in the basement, and 4 cables from the panel to the TV room. :)

[clifface]

Hi everybody. Great info and great review. Here's my question. I'm setup for an install this Saturday for a 4 room system with a 811. This includes a 1 year contract and after the year I give the equipment back or continue the service. If I were to buy the 921 would I be able to add it to my services and remove the 811? Would my dish they are bringing be the correct one for the 921? I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until the 921 is out and then order but I'm not sure. Thanks

[bytre]

Thanks for the great overview of the 921, Mark. Here's a question for you - what happens if the satellites on the two inputs are different? The switch summary screen you posted shows seperate summaries for the two inputs. Can you run a dish 500 into one and a 61.5 or 148 into the other? In my case, I have one input with 61.5/110/119/148 and one with 110/119/148, and just curious if that'd be compatible.

Second question - have you opened your box up yet? :)

[Mark Lamutt]

Hi everybody. Great info and great review. Here's my question. I'm setup for an install this Saturday for a 4 room system with a 811. This includes a 1 year contract and after the year I give the equipment back or continue the service. If I were to buy the 921 would I be able to add it to my services and remove the 811? Would my dish they are bringing be the correct one for the 921? I'm thinking maybe I should just wait until the 921 is out and then order but I'm not sure. Thanks

clifface, please ask your question in the General Dish Network PVR forum, located here: http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=48

[EdV]

Mark,

Can you test the 921 to see if when you add a local digital channel it doesn't allow you to assign it to ABC/CBS/NBC. If it doesn't, I'll post a feature request for it in the other forum.

TIA

[Mark Lamutt]

Thanks for the great overview of the 921, Mark. Here's a question for you - what happens if the satellites on the two inputs are different? The switch summary screen you posted shows seperate summaries for the two inputs. Can you run a dish 500 into one and a 61.5 or 148 into the other? In my case, I have one input with 61.5/110/119/148 and one with 110/119/148, and just curious if that'd be compatible.

Second question - have you opened your box up yet? :)

bytre, I have absolutely no idea, and have no way of testing it. And, no I haven't opened the box up, and really have no plans to do so...gotta keep that warranty coverage! :)

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

Can you test the 921 to see if when you add a local digital channel it doesn't allow you to assign it to ABC/CBS/NBC. If it doesn't, I'll post a feature request for it in the other forum.

TIA

I've manually added DTV channels in my testing, and don't remember an option to assign it to one of the networks. I'll check again this weekend, though.

[Jerry G]

All of that is correct. The DVR functions are also the same IR commands as the the Dish platinum remotes. And the PIP fuctions are the same as on the Dish 721 remote.

Just to clarify, are you saying that if I want to program my Home Theater Master 500 with IR codes that would work on the 921, I could use my 6000 remote to do the basics (which do work on my 811), a 721 remote for the IR codes for PIP, and a platinum remote to get the IR codes for DVR functions? The 721 remote's DVR IR codes won't work on the 921?

Thanks.

[Mark Lamutt]

Just to clarify, are you saying that if I want to program my Home Theater Master 500 with IR codes that would work on the 921, I could use my 6000 remote to do the basics (which do work on my 811), a 721 remote for the IR codes for PIP, and a platinum remote to get the IR codes for DVR functions? The 721 remote's DVR IR codes won't work on the 921?

Thanks.

Yes, yes, yes, no. :)

In more detail, all Dish Network IR codes are the same, except for the dishplayer. So, the 721 remote's DVR IR codes are exactly the same as the 5xx platinum remote's DVR IR codes. The 721 remote is the only other Dish Network remote that I'm aware of that has the PIP buttons on it.

[Jerry G]

Yes, yes, yes, no. :)

In more detail, all Dish Network IR codes are the same, except for the dishplayer. So, the 721 remote's DVR IR codes are exactly the same as the 5xx platinum remote's DVR IR codes. The 721 remote is the only other Dish Network remote that I'm aware of that has the PIP buttons on it.

My brain may be in limbo today, but I'm still a bit confused. If the 721 DVR codes are the same as the 5xx platinum DVR codes, wouldn't a 721 remote have everything that I need for DVR and PIP IR control of the 921 and a 5xx platinum remote wouldn't be needed? I can get the HD/SD code from the 6000 remote.

[flyingbryan]

Great review, thanks for the work you put in on it.

Question about the upcoming firewire on the 921, (IEEE 1394)
Have you heard if it will work (when it is activated) on my Mitsubishi TV as a input rather than using the DVI plug that Mitsubishi has not put on the 2003 and before TV's. :rolleyes:

[Mark Lamutt]

My brain may be in limbo today, but I'm still a bit confused. If the 721 DVR codes are the same as the 5xx platinum DVR codes, wouldn't a 721 remote have everything that I need for DVR and PIP IR control of the 921 and a 5xx platinum remote wouldn't be needed? I can get the HD/SD code from the 6000 remote.

Jerry, I apologize for the confusion. If you have a 721 remote, you will not need a 5xx platinum remote for the IR codes. The 721 remote will provide you with everything you need, except for the HD/SD code, which you can get from the 6000 remote.

[Mark Lamutt]

Great review, thanks for the work you put in on it.

Question about the upcoming firewire on the 921, (IEEE 1394)
Have you heard if it will work (when it is activated) on my Mitsubishi TV as a input rather than using the DVI plug that Mitsubishi has not put on the 2003 and before TV's. :rolleyes:

flyingbrian, I have no idea at all, and don't really know of anyway to know until the firewire is activated.

[Jerry G]

Jerry, I apologize for the confusion. If you have a 721 remote, you will not need a 5xx platinum remote for the IR codes. The 721 remote will provide you with everything you need, except for the HD/SD code, which you can get from the 6000 remote.

Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll just order a 721 remote when I get the 921 and use that to program my universal remote.

[n0qcu]

Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.

[Jerry G]

Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.

Looking at the picture of the remote in the 721 brochure, there is a TV/Video button and I suspect you're correct in that it would function as the HD/SD button does (it does so on one of my 5000 remotes).

There is a button on the 921 remote which I believe is labelled "R" that isn't on other remotes. Dish tech support tells me that's for a recovery function related to the internal smart card. It may be the only button not present on other IR capable remotes, but it may be one that isn't used often.

[tahoerob]

Thanks for the clarification. I think I'll just order a 721 remote when I get the 921 and use that to program my universal remote.
I have seen them for sale on ebay.com

[kingbiged]

The menu's and screen shots look just like the 721 software! Is this another Linux box?

[Doody]

bummer there's no RS232 control.

it'd be WAY cool if they could do an IR code to choose among the 4 output modes.

it'd be interesting if they could add a mode "Native" that simply spat out whatever the sat was feeding it.

GREAT REVIEW! thank you, sir! please keep up the good work and i'll eagerly be revisiting this thread!

doody.

[DonLandis]

Mark- Considering Doody's concern and that I was told one use for the USB port would be a keyboard connection, wouldn't this USB also be a way (absent the Old RS232)to download the codes he referenced as well?

Personally, I am interested in the capability to swap hard drives as I just know we all will be wanting more capacity. I hope Dish is listening in that the development team will address the need to add HD capacity in the near future. The discussion on how should be left to another thread but just wanted to get the message out.

[Kagato]

Guide Data: It was either a Tech Chat or a Q&A on DBS, but I clearly recall Dish Techs stating that they asked Tribune get channel and subchannel data for the guide in leu of PSIP data. So I'm guessing getting a local guide will depend on Tribune getting the data (the more providers that want it the quicker it will happen), how quickly your local station provides the data, and how long it will take dish to get the data into their EPG system.

So anyone want to bet on which will come first: Dishwire or Local EPG?

Still, nice to see Dish making head way. I'm on the fence as the 921 goes. Dish has some more things to Fix, I'm jaded by the 721 firmware, and I think Dish will put a fire under DirecTV and Cable to get more Firewire enabled STBs out.

[Sonnie Parker]

Thanks Mark! Excellent review and great info on the 921.

Great forum addition as well.

[Mark Lamutt]

There is a button on the 921 remote which I believe is labelled "R" that isn't on other remotes. Dish tech support tells me that's for a recovery function related to the internal smart card. It may be the only button not present on other IR capable remotes, but it may be one that isn't used often.

I've gotton the explanation on what the green R button does on the remote, and I'll probably post it later sometime, but it's not something to worry about - I seriously doubt anyone who's reading this review would ever need to use it.

[Mark Lamutt]

Actually if the 721 remote has a TV/Video button, its the exact same code for SD/HD.

Thanks, Kevin. I wasn't aware of that.

[Mark Lamutt]

The menu's and screen shots look just like the 721 software! Is this another Linux box?

Yes, it's a linux box. From what Scott and others have told me, the interface is just about identical looking to the 721.

[Mark Lamutt]

Guide Data: It was either a Tech Chat or a Q&A on DBS, but I clearly recall Dish Techs stating that they asked Tribune get channel and subchannel data for the guide in leu of PSIP data. So I'm guessing getting a local guide will depend on Tribune getting the data (the more providers that want it the quicker it will happen), how quickly your local station provides the data, and how long it will take dish to get the data into their EPG system.

So anyone want to bet on which will come first: Dishwire or Local EPG?


Kagato, I believe that is very close to Dish's plan for local channel guide data.

My bet is DishWire will be before local guide data.

[krt]

4. Is there a way to lock the receiver - channels locked, PPV locked, as well as, at the same time not have to enter passwords to erase "protected recorded" events? The 50x PVRs do not allow this.



4. Not excactly clear about what you're asking. Please give me an example of what you want to do, and I'll try it.

Thanks again for the quick response to my questions.

I would like to go into the locks menu, lock PPVs, and lock the system. Then, I would like to record something, and protect this recording. Then I would like to be able to delete this protected recording without inputting the PIN.

On the PVR 5xx series, if the receiver is locked, the system always prompts for the PIN if someone attempts to delete a protected recording. I understand that the workaround is not to protect recordings, or not to lock the receiver. However, if recordings are not protected, the receiver could automatically erase recorded events, when the hard drive gets full.

Thanks again.

[bytre]

Send me the box, I'll try the satellite test.

bytre, I have absolutely no idea, and have no way of testing it. And, no I haven't opened the box up, and really have no plans to do so...gotta keep that warranty coverage! :)


Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?

[Mark Lamutt]

Thanks again for the quick response to my questions.

I would like to go into the locks menu, lock PPVs, and lock the system. Then, I would like to record something, and protect this recording. Then I would like to be able to delete this protected recording without inputting the PIN.

On the PVR 5xx series, if the receiver is locked, the system always prompts for the PIN if someone attempts to delete a protected recording. I understand that the workaround is not to protect recordings, or not to lock the receiver. However, if recordings are not protected, the receiver could automatically erase recorded events, when the hard drive gets full.

Thanks again.

Ok, got it. Added to the list for the weekend.

[Mark Lamutt]

Send me the box, I'll try the satellite test.




Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?

:lol: ah, I think NOT!

I don't have a USB hard drive to try it with. Send me one, and I'll plug it in and tell you what happens. :)

[bytre]

:lol: ah, I think NOT!

I don't have a USB hard drive to try it with. Send me one, and I'll plug it in and tell you what happens. :)

PM me an address and I will.

[Rodney]

Mark,

Thanks for an excellent review. I read that you connected the 921 via the component cables because your set does not have DVI. I may have missed it but did the 921 come with a DVI-I cable?

[tm22721]

What we really need is NOT more built in HD capacity but a 1 Gbps Ethernet port to expand to networked storage and to stream video out to networked clients.

At its price point, the 921 needs to turn into a media server. It only needs to be a scalable set of tuners and a guide/scheduler engine.

Dish adds very ltittle value beyond that. This unit costs too much to just be a standalone 'DVR'.

End of rant.

[dinkster]

I just wanted to thank Mark for the very comprehensive review of the 921. Wonderful stuff that has answered so many of my questions concerning this unit. I have enjoyed following this thread.

[Slordak]

Yes. A big thank you to Mark for taking time out to post this valuable information and continue to research the quirks and details of the 921 receiver!

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

Thanks for an excellent review. I read that you connected the 921 via the component cables because your set does not have DVI. I may have missed it but did the 921 come with a DVI-I cable?

I don't know Rodney. The 921 that I picked up wasn't boxed, so I have no idea what will be in the box when it ships. I would guess that it won't come with a DVI cable, only because the 811s aren't shipping with one.

[Mark Lamutt]

dinkster, Slordak and everyone else that has emailed and PM'd me -

You're Welcome! :D

[Jetlag]

Question on the USB port - have you tried plugging a USB HD in to see if the 921 reacts?

I thought the USB port was for an external keyboard??? No?

[Danny R]

Does the 921 require Dishpro switches? Just wondering if I can remove my 501 and 301 and connect those two cables to the 921 that will replace both. I'm pretty sure both were running off of legacy switches currently.

[jackienopay]

Great review, it’s ridiculous how excited I am getting about a silly piece of consumer electronics, but I guess I can’t control that.

My questions:

1. Does the favorite list have more storage than the 6000?
2. Are you able to view and record OTA content (including HD) without a satellite input, or with a “no signal detected?”
3. Is there any type of picture adjusting for the HD feed with regard to up, down, left, right?
4. Are you able to force an OTA HD channel even if it is not currently broadcasting?

Thanks for taking the time to do this for us!

-Jackie

[Mark Lamutt]

Does the 921 require Dishpro switches? Just wondering if I can remove my 501 and 301 and connect those two cables to the 921 that will replace both. I'm pretty sure both were running off of legacy switches currently.

The 921 does not require DishPro equipment, so the answer is yes, you could replace both of your receivers with the 921.

[Mark Lamutt]

Great review, it’s ridiculous how excited I am getting about a silly piece of consumer electronics, but I guess I can’t control that.

My questions:

1. Does the favorite list have more storage than the 6000?
2. Are you able to view and record OTA content (including HD) without a satellite input, or with a “no signal detected?”
3. Is there any type of picture adjusting for the HD feed with regard to up, down, left, right?
4. Are you able to force an OTA HD channel even if it is not currently broadcasting?

Thanks for taking the time to do this for us!

1. I never used the favorites on the 6000, so I don't know what the limitation was there, but I'll add this to this weekend's testing.

2. Added to this weekend's testing - will let you know.

3. Yes, all of the above. It's on the page 2 preferences screen I believe.

4. Not sure what you're asking about with #4. Please clarify.

[jackienopay]

4. Not sure what you're asking about with #4. Please clarify.


Thanks for replying: With the 6000, it will not let me store an OTA HD channel that is not currently broadcasting (i.e. I go to the NAB website and see that fox has a digital channel on channel 48, I try to add channel 48 in the 6000 as a digital channel, but it won't let me because fox has no signal strength).

It might sound strange, but there are times of the day where I can receive more HDTV than others, and when one of my locals stops broadcasting, the channel erases.

Thanks

[mwgiii]

Mark,

Great review.

Do you know if I will need a DVI-A, DVI-D, or a DVI-I cable?

[Danny R]

Do you know if I will need a DVI-A, DVI-D, or a DVI-I cable?

We covered this in another thread. The 921 has a DVI-I port.

[santellavision]

Danny,

Could you please post that link. If that's true, then the 921 is the first piece of HT gear that uses DVI-I. Every other currently available DVI equipped unit, (Displays, DVD players, Sat etc.) all are only using DVD-D single channel.

[Mark Lamutt]

Thanks for replying: With the 6000, it will not let me store an OTA HD channel that is not currently broadcasting (i.e. I go to the NAB website and see that fox has a digital channel on channel 48, I try to add channel 48 in the 6000 as a digital channel, but it won't let me because fox has no signal strength).

It might sound strange, but there are times of the day where I can receive more HDTV than others, and when one of my locals stops broadcasting, the channel erases.

Thanks

Ah, ok. Not strange at all - we deal with the same kinds of problems in Denver, even though our stations are broadcasting 24x7.

I hopefully will be able to answer your question next week a bug is fixed and I'm not limited by the NDA I'm under.

[Mark Lamutt]

Danny,

Could you please post that link. If that's true, then the 921 is the first piece of HT gear that uses DVI-I. Every other currently available DVI equipped unit, (Displays, DVD players, Sat etc.) all are only using DVD-D single channel.

Ernie,

The link provided in the first post in this thread to the PDF specsheet of the 921 says that the DVI port is indeed DVI-I.

[Cyclone]

If you look at the pin out on the DVI-I connector you'll see the analog pins. Also the stenciling under the DVI port says "DVI/RGB". I'm hoping we'll be able to use a little DVI-I to RGB adapter for those of us whos HDTV's have RGB connectors instead of DVI-D.

http://www.dansdata.com/images/v71002v1d/adapter320.jpghttp://www.dansdata.com/images/v71002v1d/dvi400.jpg

Note: the 4 pins around the + are the analog RGB pins. The other 24 pins are the digital pins. Only 12 are used for single link DVI.

I'm pretty sure the 811 is DVI-D and does not have those 4 analog RGB pins. So a DVI-A or DVI-I connector will not physically be able to plug into a 811.

[dbax]

Great review.

I am a little confused about the SD/HD button. I have a 36" sony HD ready set that is 3x4. It has a 16x9 enhanced mode (shrinks the horizontal scan lines down so that you don't "waste" the scan lines on the black bars). If I am using either the Component or the DVI output and use the HD/SD button, can I set it up to have SD output 3x4 and HD output 16x9?

That way I won't have to change the inputs on the TV from Component to S-Video when switching from HD to SD content.

Thanks,
Dan.

[Mark Lamutt]

dbax, I don't know and have no way of testing it, as I don't have a 4x3 hdtv. I do know that there are 2 different 4x3 tv settings, so one of them may do what you want to do, if I'm understanding your question.

[tm22721]

Most projectors need all five signals RGBHV but that DVI connector only appears to provide RGB.

Where would the 15 pin VGA connector get its HV sync signals ?

[Jetlag]

I'm hoping we'll be able to use a little DVI-I to RGB adapter for those of us whos HDTV's have RGB connectors instead of DVI-D.
Make that 2 of us! This would be ideal for my S1.

BTW, What's up with all of the cats?

[Mark Lamutt]

I pretty much started the cat thing a while back. Of course, I remember your little beasts there jetlag. I'm going to try a DVI-RGB dongle out this weekend to see what happens when connected to a computer monitor (my only VGA source).

[JoeQ]

This was covered in the last Tech Chat. They dropped support for just one feed because they ran into too many "corner cases" to deal with (e.g., what happens if the user attempts to do this particular thing that requires two feeds, etc.). It must have been consuming alot of debug time, for something they judged to be relatively low priority.


Mark,
In spite of the fact that this was covered,Some of us (like me) would appreciate it if you still could try one feed and see what happens.

I assumed the dual feed was for allowing one to watch a show WHILE another was being recorded.
I have a TIVO connected to my 6000 so obviously, I can only watch a previously recorded show WHILE one is being recorded.
Never really cared for or felt a burning need for anything more than that.

The reason I would like to get away with one feed is that I was hoping it would be a straightforward swap out of the TIVO/6000 with the 921 and keep my 5000+HD mod.



Thanks for your patience with answering all these questions. I know it is taking a LOT of your time.

Joe

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,
In spite of the fact that this was covered,Some of us (like me) would appreciate it if you still could try one feed and see what happens.

The reason I would like to get away with one feed is that I was hoping it would be a straightforward swap out of the TIVO/6000 with the 921 and keep my 5000+HD mod.

Thanks for your patience with answering all these questions. I know it is taking a LOT of your time.

Joe

I figured it would be about like this when I volunteered for this effort. That's OK, though - it's fun playing with the newest toys around.

I'm definitely going to still do this test, Joe. Have no worries. It's on the list for Saturday.

[angiodan]

Mark, great info and review on the 921!

I can't wait till Mark from Dish Depot calls me to come pick it up!! :)

[EdV]

I've manually added DTV channels in my testing, and don't remember an option to assign it to one of the networks. I'll check again this weekend, though.

Mark,

It's funny how sometimes the obvious escapes me. It just dawned on me that the 6000 and it's offspring, the 811 and 921 were designed to get OTA Digital program info via PSIP. But PSIP is not available for analog channels, so they allow you to assign analog channels to one of the 3 major networks for prime time guide info but they don't when you add a digital channel.

But PSIP has been problematic and none of the Boston channels that I get are showing program info in the guide, so I have to think that many others aren't getting it either.

Correcting this problem will likely take quite some time, so I think I'll add a request to provide a shorter term workaround to allow assigning digital OTA channels to one of the three networks. If set to "None" (the default) would use PSIP.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

It's funny how sometimes the obvious escapes me. It just dawned on me that the 6000 and it's offspring, the 811 and 921 were designed to get OTA Digital program info via PSIP. But PSIP is not available for analog channels, so they allow you to assign analog channels to one of the 3 major networks for prime time guide info but they don't when you add a digital channel.

But PSIP has been problematic and none of the Boston channels that I get are showing program info in the guide, so I have to think that many others aren't getting it either.

Correcting this problem will likely take quite some time, so I think I'll add a request to provide a shorter term workaround to allow assigning digital OTA channels to one of the three networks. If set to "None" (the default) would use PSIP.

None of the Dish receivers use PSIP now, or have ever used PSIP to get guide data because of the very reason you brought up. Not all stations are sending guide data over PSIP, and those that do, do it differently than other stations. Apparently there's a lot of leeway in the application of the ATSC standards in that regard.

[DonLandis]

Most projectors need all five signals RGBHV but that DVI connector only appears to provide RGB.

Where would the 15 pin VGA connector get its HV sync signals ?

The sync is composite sync on G or green. We have successfully connected the Green via T- barrel BNCs to the S input which is usually the H on an RGBHV connection. Internally your projector will pull the V sync off the H input. If you have a HD DB15 connector plug on your projector you will also need a breakout cable from DB15HD to 5 BNC's. Most projector's RGBHV input is designed to work this way so it is compatible with several configurations of RGB signals. Then again yours may be one of those that doesn't support this and you will need a sync stripper, converter from Extron or similar company. Sorry, but these are expensive!

[Mark Lamutt]

I have a report:

I connected the DVI-I to VGA converter dongle that I got with my ATI Radeon 9000pro video card to the DVI port on the 921, and then connected a spare computer monitor to the dongle.

It works.

I'm currently viewing content on both my television connected via component cables and the monitor connected via the DVI port simultaneously. So, this would indicate that when the receiver is set in HD mode, both the component output and the DVI output are active.

And, it confirms that the DVI port is in fact DVI-I.

The DVI port is NOT active when the 921 is set to SD mode. Only HD mode.

I'll update the review with these findings this weekend.

[Jetlag]

MARK! DON"T LET E* KNOW!!! They may take this fabulous, unbelievably wonderful feature away!!! Let's see, how do I delete Mark's last post, hmmmm.....

[bytre]

Groovy, nice feature to hear of!

[bytre]

Here's another question: If you change the aspect ratio between 4:3 and 16:9, does the program guide utilize the additional horizontal space to display more program information?

Looking at your guide screenshot (http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_guide_rec_2HD.jpg), it looks like there is a black border around the guide, making it look like this is not supported. If not, that would be a good feature request.

[Mark Lamutt]

bytre - the answer to that question would be no.

[Danny R]

If I am using either the Component or the DVI output and use the HD/SD button, can I set it up to have SD output 3x4 and HD output 16x9? That way I won't have to change the inputs on the TV from Component to S-Video when switching from HD to SD content.

dbax, if your sony TV is like mine, it will automatically go into 16:9 mode anytime it sees a progressive signal higher than 480p. Thus to change from HD to SD without switching inputs, you need to adjust the Display Settings output resolution accordingly in the 921 menus. For SD material, you could probably leave it at 480p and your set will stay in 4x3 mode. For HD material, you have it converted to 1080i and it will bump into 16x9 mode automatically. However the 921 has only one setting for its output. This makes it difficult if you are browsing between HD and SD channels as you have to constantly switch display modes manually.

See the requests about output options posted in the requests section of this forum for the 921. An automatic or default display mode for each input resolution is a primary feature a lot of us would like to have. Voice your support for this feature in that message forum.

[tm22721]

Does anybody have a source for this newfangled 'DVI-I to VGA converter dongle' other than the Radeon 9000Pro ??

TIA

[Mark Lamutt]

tm22721, ask your question in one of the other forums - you'll probably get a better response, and this thread really isn't the place to ask it.

[santellavision]

Mark,
So, we only know that the Analog portion of the DVI port is not active in SD mode. But, we're not totally sure if the Digital DVI output is active or not - right?

[Mark Lamutt]

Ernie, I don't understand your question, most likely because I don't know how DVI works. When I had the 921 set to SD mode, nothing was displayed on the monitor that I had connected to the DVI port via the DVI->VGA converter. I would think that would indicate that nothing comes out of the DVI port when the 921 is in SD mode. Or am I missing something?

[Mark Lamutt]

Will the 921 EVER output to SD and HD simultaneously, or is it a hardware limitation.

What about the RF output? Can this output simultaneously with HD?

Going back throught the thead to answer questions...

The 921 will not be able to output HD and SD simultaneously. The hardware doesn't support it.

[Tom Horner]

[QUOTE=Mark Lamutt]I've had the 921 since Friday afternoon, the 12th, and have spent just about every waking minute since putting it through it's paces. If you have questions, I'll do my best to answer them if I can. Please be advised that there are issues that I can't discuss due to the Non-Disclosure Agreement that I've signed with Dish Network to beta test the 921.

Mark,
Your review (especially with the screen shots) was very informative. I have a good feeling for the 921 now except for one thing. I'm a TIVO user and am hooked on using the Season Pass function. Does Dish PVRs support anything like this? If you are not familiar with TIVO, the Season Pass is a smart function that tracks your recording selection if it moves around in time/date. It also let's you record 1st Run, 1st Run+Reruns, or All (meaning it looks on other channels also). This is a Killer app for TIVO. I'm not sure if RePlay has this or not. If Dish 921 PVR doesn't have this kind of capability, then I know people (I'm undecided at this point) who will wait (almost indefinitely) for an HD TIVO box. The integration of Receiver+PVR might be enough for me to take the plunge. The IR blaster I use now to control my Dish receiver fails occasionally (at the worst time of course).

Another question for me is IR support. I think you said that the remote doesn't support IR, but the receiver might??? I've just converted to Harmony Remote and don't want to have to go back to multiple remotes. And my wife will kill me if I do.

[Mark Lamutt]

Sweet review - thanks Mark. I've read lots of posts about the front popping off so you can add another harddrive. I'm guessing it doesn't since you didn't mention it, but thought I'd ask. Does it still have the smaller door on the front with usb/mic connections like the 721?

Update to this question: Yes, there is a small sliding door on the front of the 921 behind which lives the smartcard, a usb port and an input that looks like it might be a mic input.

[mcowher]

I wonder if one of these VGA to NTSC converter boxes coupled a DVI to VGA converter and the fact that Component and DVI are output simultaneously would allow us to display simultaneously to our HDTV's and NTSC TV's?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=316

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,
And finally, if the HD buffer is 2 hours, how long is the SD pause buffer?

Update to this question - the SD pause buffer is also 120 minutes, just like the HD buffer.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,
Your review (especially with the screen shots) was very informative. I have a good feeling for the 921 now except for one thing. I'm a TIVO user and am hooked on using the Season Pass function.
(season pass description not copied...)

Another question for me is IR support. I think you said that the remote doesn't support IR, but the receiver might??? I've just converted to Harmony Remote and don't want to have to go back to multiple remotes. And my wife will kill me if I do.

The 921 does not have a season pass type feature, although it does list whether a program is NEW or not in the program guide program description, so I think the capability may be there to add one in the future. But not now.

The 921 does respond to the IR command of the older dish remotes. Read through the thread and you'll see the discussion on this.

[tm22721]

'The 921 will not be able to output HD and SD simultaneously. The hardware doesn't support it.
'

That's good for those of us with video scalars having auto input switching. :)

[greggg]

Mark about the SD and HD output at the same time. I have heard from many people that SD looks better if run through S-Video and not DVI or Component. What I wanted to do was hook up the DVI then run S-Video to another input on my TV. This way when SD is on, probably 90% of the time, I could just switch inputs. Are you saying I can't do this?

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark about the SD and HD output at the same time. I have heard from many people that SD looks better if run through S-Video and not DVI or Component. What I wanted to do was hook up the DVI then run S-Video to another input on my TV. This way when SD is on, probably 90% of the time, I could just switch inputs. Are you saying I can't do this?

Greggg, absolutely you can do this - that's exactly the way that I have my 921 currently connected to my system (except for component rather than DVI).

The point is that the svideo or composite video outs are only active when the 921 is set to SD mode. And the component and DVI ports are only active when the 921 is set to HD mode.

And actually, SD material looks BEST on the 921 when it's converted to 480p and output via component (or DVI) - it's by far the best SD picture I've ever seen a Dish receiver put out.

[santellavision]

Mark,
To explain my question better, with DVI-I, there are Digital video pins and Analog video pins. So, I was asking if all the DVI outputs (both digital & analog) are disabled when in SD.

[Mark Lamutt]

I'm assuming that the fact that there was nothing displayed on my monitor connected to the DVI port when the 921 was in SD mode doesn't answer that question?

[greylar]

I wonder if one of these VGA to NTSC converter boxes coupled a DVI to VGA converter and the fact that Component and DVI are output simultaneously would allow us to display simultaneously to our HDTV's and NTSC TV's?

http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/Category/category_slc.asp?CatId=316


I would be willing to bet that you could do that since you are basically taking one of your HD feeds and converting it to NTSC. However I would bet the pq would suffer. MHO

G

[Dominus]

Mark,
To explain my question better, with DVI-I, there are Digital video pins and Analog video pins. So, I was asking if all the DVI outputs (both digital & analog) are disabled when in SD.

My question involves using a DVI switcher with the 921.

Since the 921 has a DVI-I output can I connect it to a switcher (Gefen) and then to my DVI input on the TV? May be a different forum but wondered if the 921 uses the analog pins on their output or uses it for convenience for users can use either type (DVI-D or DVI-I) connections?

Thanks for the review. Looking forward to buying this puppy to go with my new HDTV.

Dom

[greggg]

So Mark are you saying forget about the two separate inputs and just go with DVI or component at all times? My TV of choice will be the Samsung 61 inch DLP. I am just waiting for the price to come down a little.

[Mark Lamutt]

No, I was responding to your statement about 480i svideo looking better than upconverting SD to 1080i or 720p. That much is true usually, although on the 921, the best looking SD video is upconverting 480i to 480p.

[greggg]

Got it. Thanks Mark sometimes it takes things a while to sink in. In many showrooms I have seen 480i upconverted to 1080i and it looks terrible. 480i to 480p does look good.

[EatingPie]

Phew made it to the end! Lotsa good info.

Wondering if you have any ETA info on Dishwire other than "as soon as possible." Since ASAP usually means anything from now to the end of the world. :-)

-Pie

[BarryO]

It's listed on the Dish Network website now: http://www.dishnetwork.com/content/products/receivers/HD/index.shtml

[Jetlag]

I watched the Flash intro for the 921 via the above link. The 921 they showed was BLACK. Is it available in black? The only photos I have ever seen were silver. All of my other components are black so I would definitley be interested in this.

**edit** Actually, I think the one in the flash intro was a 522 not a 921, nevermind :sure:

[Mark Lamutt]

Phew made it to the end! Lotsa good info.

Wondering if you have any ETA info on Dishwire other than "as soon as possible." Since ASAP usually means anything from now to the end of the world. :-)

-Pie

Spring is the eta I've been told for the dishwire ports.

[TVBob]

Great work Mark. This is good stuff.

I know you've covered this but I'm still puzzled :scratchin . Can you set the 921 into HD mode, and get 480i (not 480p) 16x9 on the component video outputs?

Why would you want to do this? To record down-converted widescreen HDTV onto a DVD-recorder such as the Philips DVD-R80, which has the nice red, green, blue component video inputs :righton: , but it can only record 480i (YCrCb) not 480p (YPrPb) :( . I'm trying to find a way to archive "good" (not perfect) widescreen HDTV from the DVR-921 to DVD rather than to :money: D-VHS tape or :nono2: S-VHS.

Of course, it would be even better if the 921 firewire would work with the IEEE-1394 inputs of DVD recorders or TV sets (aka. Sony i.Link), but in the Tech Chats DISH has said that they will only turn on the firewire for one or two D-VHS recorders, and nothing more. Too bad, because many 2-year-old Sony and Mitsubishi HDTVs have i.Link inputs, not DVI, and many DVD recorders have firewire inputs that we can't use for anything other than DigiCams.

[DonLandis]

"I'm trying to find a way to archive "good" (not perfect) widescreen HDTV from the DVR-921 to DVD"

If this is all you want, why not connect your DVD recorder to your 921 in Y/C output plus audio left and right analog mode for the copy to DVD-R. The 921 will downconvert the HD video and digital audio to that which is compatible with the DVD-R recorder. If you have recorded it to the 921 hard drive you can switch the output to watch a second time using your hiDef output but your DVD-R would be a downconverted version of the program on DVD-R.

When the 1394 Dishwire gets activated it will output a 1394 HD signal that will not be compatible with DVD-R bit rate so DVHS will be the only choice from the Dishwire even if your DVD-R recorder has 1394 input. I'm not sure about the 921 dishwire output for SD recordings. That may work but we won't know until the dishwire engineers start answering questions. Maybe good questions at CES!

[Mark Lamutt]

Great work Mark. This is good stuff.

I know you've covered this but I'm still puzzled :scratchin . Can you set the 921 into HD mode, and get 480i (not 480p) 16x9 on the component video outputs?


Nope. As soon as you select 480i mode from the display options screen, the 921 automatically resets itself to SD mode, and turns off the video output from the component and DVI ports.

[TVBob]

"why not connect your DVD recorder to your 921 in Y/C output plus audio left and right analog mode for the copy to DVD-R."

This would be fine for 4 x 3 SD, but I want to archive wide-screen 16 x 9 HD material to DVD, and S-Video is always 4 x 3. Yes, using letterbox mode, I could capture the full image, but this down-converts the image to way less than 480 lines because of all the space taken by the black bars. If you put the DISH-6000 in letterbox mode, then watch high-def material "zoomed" on the S-Video output, it looks pretty bad :ewww:.

Mark,

Does HD downconverted to 480p (or 480i) look any better on the 921 than it does on the DISH 6000 :coolglass?

If only the 921 would drive the component video outputs at 480i like some DVD players do, we might have a way to make decent wide-screen DVD recordings. I think the Samsung SIR-T165 HDTV receiver has this capability but I don't have one to give it a try (PM me if you have).

Can the D-VHS recorders output 480i at 16 x 9? If so, it would be a two-step process, but one could go from Dishwire to D-VHS then (finally) to DVD via component video.

But wouldn't it be even better if you could just plug a USB 2.0 DVD burner :disk: into the 921 to turn it into a DVD recorder like the Pioneer DVR-810H with TiVo (http://www.pioneerburner.com/)?

Wouldn't it be cool if you could plug a 200GB USB 2.0 hard drive into the 921 to give it extra disk space :righton:?

[Mark Lamutt]

Bob - the downconverted 1080i to 480i looks just about exactly like it did on the 6000 (I'm saying that from memory, as my 6000 is no longer connected).

[DonLandis]

"I want to archive wide-screen 16 x 9 HD material to DVD"

Better wait to get the Blue Ray HD DVD recorder then. No current DVD-R recorder will record HD video. If it could then there would be no need for the development of HDTV DVD such as Blue Ray.


"If you put the DISH-6000 in letterbox mode, then watch high-def material "zoomed" on the S-Video output, it looks pretty bad ."

Yep! especially when your reference is HDTV source.


I don't understand why you don't want to record HDTV to a recorder designed for recording HDTV.

BTW you could also use the analog WVHS if you want to spend the money.

[TVBob]

I don't understand why you don't want to record HDTV to a recorder designed for recording HDTV.


I really do, but I just don't want to use tape any more. Disks are so much better for all the obvious reasons. Rewinding? What's rewinding? :)

Blue Ray will be great, but I fear it is at least five years away, despite what we might see at CES next month.

What I want now is a way to down-convert and save wide-screen HDTV, in real time, to wide-screen DVD, with Dolby 5.1 sound. Yes, I'll be losing some image quality by going from 720p or 1080i to 480p, but at least I'll end up with a good quality wide-screen recording that will play in anyone's $50 DVD player.

I hope the new Philips DVD-R90 will record 480p with Dolby 5.1. If it does, we'll finally have an HDTV to DVD solution that doesn't require a PC or a Blue Ray recorder.

[DonLandis]

OK, I now understand. (We may be going outside the scope of this thread) but I believe it can be done via computer HD capture card, and doing an edit in HDTV editng software to convert the output for SD recording including DD but only with a computer DVD-R recorder to receive the burn data from the digital stream direct. Seems like a lot of work just to avoid tape. I like DVD better than tape for many more reasons than you mentioned but tape is what we have now and it works and is not so difficult as well as it will be what is supported in the 921 dishwire.

[Kryspy]

Mark,

Should we assume that your 921 is a pre release demo due to the fact the front still bears the title DishPVR as opposed to DishDVR ?

Kryspy

[tony97007]

I have a report:

...So, this would indicate that when the receiver is set in HD mode, both the component output and the DVI output are active...



So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

Should we assume that your 921 is a pre release demo due to the fact the front still bears the title DishPVR as opposed to DishDVR ?

Kryspy

I believe that's the way the 921 will ship, as the one I have was shipped down from the warehouse the day I picked it up. All of the software says DishDVR.

[Mark Lamutt]

So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:

At this point in time, that should work.

[Mark Lamutt]

Post #8 in this thread (direct link here: http://www.dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=175995&postcount=8) has been updated with more review information and answers to all of the questions (I think) that I said I'd check into this weekend. Got more questions? That's what I'm here for! :)

[wildman]

Hope this isn't too simple a question, but....

I have a plasma display (fujitsu) with DVI-D, but the 921 is DVI-I.

How will one know if the two devices will interface?

[MikeSoltis]

I have a plasma display (fujitsu) with DVI-D, but the 921 is DVI-I.
Good question, I have been wanting to know this also. Does the 921 output on DVI through the digital pins or the analog pins, or both? AFAIK, a DVI-D cable will plug into a DVI-I jack, just won't pass the analog signals (no pins)...

... forward frame advance jumps ahead 1 frame at a time, while the reverse frame advance jumps back approximately 5 frames at a time or so.

Mark, the 501 does this too. I believe it's just something inherent in the nature of digital video coding, it's easier to scan forward smoothly than it is to scan backwards. I'm sure someone on this forum can explain it in a little more detail than I.

[DVDDAD]

So, am I correct in thinking that this capability could allow me to connect my main TV to the 921's DVI output, and a second TV in a nearby room to it's component output? For the cost of a 30' component video cable and some kind of remote repeater (?), I could share the 921 between my living room and bedroom TV's? :grin:
That sounds like it should work. But why would you need a remote repeater if the 921 has a UHF remote?

[thorr]

I do not have a phone line. Can I use this product? I am concerned about activation, upgrades and program data, etc. Thanks.

Mike

[thorr]

Regarding DVI-I, DVI-I is both DVI-D and DVI-A (digital and analog) compatible. Some of the connector holes in the DVI-I are for analog, others are for digital. A DVI-D cable is missing some pins, but plugs into the DVI-I port just fine.

[wildman]

Thanks Thorr for the response...

But to clarify, are you saying because it plugs in fine that it passes all the information necessary between the two fine too?

[thorr]

Yes, that is what I am saying. DVI-I is like two outputs in one. In fact you can get a splitter cable to make two outputs (one digital, one analog RGB): http://www.pacificcable.com/Picture_Page.asp?DataName=DVIIY%2D1

[Mark Lamutt]

thorr - currently, Dish doesn't require a phone line connection. That may change in the future, however.

[thorr]

Mark - Thanks, that is totally awesome news! Up until now, the upcoming Comcast solution was my only option. I will definitely have to weigh the options before making a purchase. It will come down to monthly price, firewire, and number of HD channels.

I currently have DirecTV, but they don't support Tivo's internet connection method, so my days with them are numbered.

[peterd]

Separate memory for HD and SD, similar to 6000?

The answer to this one currently is no. If a HD channel is set to Normal mode, then SD channels will also be in Normal mode when the SD/HD button is pressed. One AR is active, whether you're watching HD or SD.Mark -

From your answer, I'm not sure the original question was clear. I never press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode). Here's the scenario: I tune in an SD (480i) channel and set the aspect to (for instance) Stretch, then I tune in an HD (480p, 720p or 1080i) channel and set the aspect to Normal. After than, as I change channels, the 6000 will change from Stretch to Normal as I move from any SD channel to any HD channel. What does the 921 do?

Using satellite locals to get program info for local OTA recordings

I had said in my review earlier that I had gotton this to work. I couldn't get it to work again in my testing this weekend. So, it appears that it's not possible (or at least not possible reliably) to set a timer to a satellite local channel, and then edit that timer to change the recording channel to a local OTA digital channel, and still retain the program information for the recording.
Mark -

Did you by any chance try the same thing using an analog OTA station with mapped prime-time network listing as the starting point?

I have to say, I hope this lack of OTA listings was "the" bug that was holding up the release. Time-shifting HBO, HDNET, etc. is ok, but their schedules already have a lot of redundancy built into any given week. It is the network schedules where DVRs really shine. If Dish told me I could timeshift HD OTA using the guide to get program listings and that to do that I'd have to pay not only the $4.99 DVR fee but also $5.99 for (SD) locals, I'd probably (grudgingly) pay up. But if I can't use the guide to get program listings for HD OTA (and all my recordings show up in the list as date & time without any titles!), not only will I not buy the 921 (which I've been planning on buying for 2 years since seeing it at CES), but I will be eagerly awaiting the HD DirecTivo (even though it means giving up on DVHS archiving of movies via Dishwire)!

(My $0.02)

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark -

From your answer, I'm not sure the original question was clear. I never press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode). Here's the scenario: I tune in an SD (480i) channel and set the aspect to (for instance) Stretch, then I tune in an HD (480p, 720p or 1080i) channel and set the aspect to Normal. After than, as I change channels, the 6000 will change from Stretch to Normal as I move from any SD channel to any HD channel. What does the 921 do?

You're right - I didn't get the original question. Now I do. The 921 acts like your 6000 does, performing exactly the way you describe in your scenario.


Did you by any chance try the same thing using an analog OTA station with mapped prime-time network listing as the starting point?


Even after adding an OTA analog channel, and assigning it to a network, there's still no guide data for that OTA analog channel (at least not this time of night - there may be during primetime...I don't know). So, if there's no guide data to work from, it's a moot point.

And no, unfortunately, this isn't THE BUG...(although that is supposed to be fixed now - I should know tomorrow when the new software is downloaded).

I know that Dish has plans for guide data for the local OTAs, but it's still a few months off.

[santellavision]

I never press the SD/HD button on my 6000 (always in HD mode).Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material. The scaler in the 6000 is crap. Almost any display's internal scaler will do a better job of scaling the SD material to 720/1080 than letting the 6000 do it.

[peterd]

Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material.Ernie -
Thanks. I realize this (in fact if I were after the absolute best PQ from my 6000 I'd get it SDI modded and feed that into my Vigatec). The big value of the 6000 for me is WAF (Wife Acceptance Factor). It is easy to turn it on and tune to whatever channel without concern for whether it is SD or HD, OTA or DBS, Analog or Digital.

What my eyes are sensitive to when it comes to the poor SD PQ on satellite is not the effect of scaling, but (over-) compression artifacts. As a result, I avoid SD as much as possible. (Oh, and I don't leave the SD on stretch mode either - that was just an example so Mark would understand the behavior I thought was in question. ;) )

[peterd]

Even after adding an OTA analog channel, and assigning it to a network, there's still no guide data for that OTA analog channel (at least not this time of night - there may be during primetime...I don't know). So, if there's no guide data to work from, it's a moot point.Mark -
Dish only provides guide data for OTA analog channels which are assigned to a network during primetime (even then there are gaps). Could you please try this test during primetime?

Thanks again for all your testing!

[Mark Lamutt]

I'll try to take a look at that tomorrow night...hmmm...I guess that would be tonight, now. :)

[DonLandis]

Mark- How far into the future can you set a manual timer, (not from the guide as I know that is limited) Could you set the timer to record, say, 9PM - 10 PM on channel 101 for the next CC, I believe Jan 8th? or what ever, but beyond the normal guide limit?

[Doody]

Peter, I think you're missing out on something... the consensus of 6000 users is the best PQ is to use the SD output for SD material and HD for HD material.

i do the same thing that peter does, and yes, it's sucky, but the root problem is that the unit should be configurable on an output basis, not absolutely. just like it stores stretch modes for HD -vs- SD channels, why can't it store the output mode (480i -vs- 720p (or whatever you prefer))? there has to be a means to automate this - way annoying.

or, even better, as has been discussed elsewhere here, a mode to just have it pump out whatever it's getting in - a "native" mode. many folks have plenty of other technology happy to take in whatever DISH can dish out (groan) and process it appropriately.

doody.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark- How far into the future can you set a manual timer, (not from the guide as I know that is limited) Could you set the timer to record, say, 9PM - 10 PM on channel 101 for the next CC, I believe Jan 8th? or what ever, but beyond the normal guide limit?

Don, I just set a manual timer from 8pm to 9pm for January 8, 2007... :)

[Doody]

Don, I just set a manual timer from 8pm to 9pm for January 8, 2007...

sure, but did it work? :) :) :)

doody.

"anybody can TAKE a reservation...." :)

[Doody]

QUESTION

my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.

do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?

i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.

tia,
doody.

[tcj2001]

Now since I heard DVR 921 is being shipped/ or going to be shipped, want to know if the big bug was fixed. Did not read about it any where so just checking.

[TVBob]

Mark,

How fast can the DVR-921 change channels? Specifically, how long does it take to see a clean picture after you press "Channel Up"? 3 seconds?

I suspect it's slower than the 6000 or 811 because of disk buffering. I also suspect it takes measurably longer to do "Channel Up" from HBO-HD to SHO-HD than from, say, Ch. 300 to 301, but maybe not.

I'd also like to know how long it takes the DVR-921 to lock on to an OTA HD or SD channel. The ATSC receiver built into my Sony KD-34XBR2 locks on to digital OTA channels very fast compared to the DISH 6000 8VSB module, which seems to be really sluggish. The DVR-921 OTA receiver is supposed to be much improved.

[Glenn]

Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: "Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control". This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?

[BobMurdoch]

QUESTION

my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.

do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?

i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.

tia,
doody.

I would assume that all the data is being stored in the same format that it is coming down from the satellites. Whatever default ones and zeros being transmitted are being recorded. I would then assume that any downconverting/upconverting is being done in the receiver's memory.

[TVBob]

Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: "Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control". This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?What controversy? The 921's remote works the same as other DISH Universal remotes. It sends RF to the 921, and IR to anything else. The 921 also has an IR eye so you can control it with a Pronto or other Universal remote if you like, once you find the right set of codes.

[tkcaptaina]

all the screens remind me of the original 7100, 7200 DISHPLAYERs. A GUI I loved until I got my 510, now looks like I have to get used to it again

[Mark Lamutt]

QUESTION

my apologies if this has been answered already, but i didn't see it.

do we assume that the recordings are being stored on the hard drive in the format in which they were broadcast? so if you have your unit set to output 720p, is it storing the, say, SD data on the hard drive at the upconverted 720p or storing it at the 480i it presumably is transmitted at?

i would assume it is NOT storing the upconverted signal, but am curious.

tia,
doody.

The 921 records the satellite stream exactly as it receives it from the satellite. All display options and aspect ratios are applied when viewing the recorded data.

[Mark Lamutt]

Now since I heard DVR 921 is being shipped/ or going to be shipped, want to know if the big bug was fixed. Did not read about it any where so just checking.

Whether the 921 is shipping to retailers yet remains to be seen - there certainly a lot of rumors about that, but I don't have confirmation.

Regardless, the next software version, L1.43 is supposed to fix the BUG, but I don't have it yet. As soon as I do get the download, and confirm the BUG has been fixed, I'll be able to let you know.

[Mark Lamutt]

Mark,

How fast can the DVR-921 change channels? Specifically, how long does it take to see a clean picture after you press "Channel Up"? 3 seconds?

Channel changes take between 3 and 4 seconds from start to finish.

I suspect it's slower than the 6000 or 811 because of disk buffering. I also suspect it takes measurably longer to do "Channel Up" from HBO-HD to SHO-HD than from, say, Ch. 300 to 301, but maybe not.

It's very comparable with the other Dish DVR receivers. And in my experience, it makes no difference what satellite channels you're switching between - the delay is between 3 and 4 seconds.

I'd also like to know how long it takes the DVR-921 to lock on to an OTA HD or SD channel. The ATSC receiver built into my Sony KD-34XBR2 locks on to digital OTA channels very fast compared to the DISH 6000 8VSB module, which seems to be really sluggish. The DVR-921 OTA receiver is supposed to be much improved.

Currently, it takes about as long as the 6000 took to lock onto the local digital channels, but it may be improved with the next version of the software. The 921 signal processing is improved - I'm receiving weaker signals that I was having problems getting with the 6000 much better, but the lock time currently is about the same.

[Mark Lamutt]

Regarding the UHF/IR controversy with the 921's remote, the information on the Dish website says: "Platinum Plus" UHF/Infrared 4-component universal remote control". This sounds like either the problem has been resolved, or somebody needs to update the website. Or I guess it could mean that it can transmit IR to some devices, but not to the 921. That sounds too insane to be possible, though. Does anybody know which is the case?

Currently, the 921 uhf pro remote only sends uhf signals to the 921, and sends IR signals to other devices it controls. However, I have seen word that the remote may be modifyable to send IR to the 921 as well. I'm waiting on Dish to send me the information about it.

[tcj2001]

VSSLL say's

"We received our first shipment from DISH today.
They'll be in the mail shortly.
DISH Distributors will receive theirs Monday.
I'm waiting to see if JVC gets theirs today"


:D

[TimK]

I'd like to take this opportunity to welcome all of the people coming to DBSTalk for the first time to read this review! We're glad you're here, and hope you enjoy your stay! :hi:

Well thanks, and Hi.

I just stepped into the DVR ranks with a Dish 510, but since my TV is HD ready (Samsung DLP) I'm interested in stepping up to the HD PVR.

But first, I need to figure something out. As far as I can tell, there is no way to program my Dish 510 to search for and record a program by name. I can search for a program by name manually, but it won't save that search and it won't use the search results to automatically program the DVR to record. (Unless I'm missing something.) Tivo and ReplayTV can both do this, and it seems like one of the most basic and obvious functions of a PVR -- central to the whole concept, in fact -- I can't believe that the DishPVR can't do it. Based on my reading of your review of the new HD DishPVR, it can't either. So if I want to record a show that moves around (eg: Farscape on SciFi) I have to go search for it manually and program a timer.

What is the point of increasing the recording quality without increasing the usefullness of the device? Please tell me I'm just missing something and this rather obvious feature does exist and I just haven't found it yet. Because I simply cannot believe someone would go to the effort to design a new expensive supposedly cutting edge device like this and make it brain dead.

All the pretty menus and fast scrolling guides in the world don't make up for a feature omission that makes the thing basically useless to me. :mad:

[BobMurdoch]

I'm pretty sure the 921 DOES have a search feature, where you can use your remote to enter in a keyword to search. My 721 has it, and I'm pretty sure the 921 does as well.

[john72]

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but has the 921 eliminated the use of an external smart card? I take it that everything is internal? The reason i ask is because i was reading up on the receiver and i saw in the brochure that there was a smart card recepticle in the front panel which you cannot see unless you open it. Anyhow im glad they covered it up if they use a smart card and if not even better cause i have a lil guy who likes to yank the smart card out every chance he gets! Anyhow someone let me know.

Thanks also great review!

[Mark Lamutt]

But first, I need to figure something out. As far as I can tell, there is no way to program my Dish 510 to search for and record a program by name. I can search for a program by name manually, but it won't save that search and it won't use the search results to automatically program the DVR to record. (Unless I'm missing something.) Tivo and ReplayTV can both do this, and it seems like one of the most basic and obvious functions of a PVR -- central to the whole concept, in fact -- I can't believe that the DishPVR can't do it. Based on my reading of your review of the new HD DishPVR, it can't either. So if I want to record a show that moves around (eg: Farscape on SciFi) I have to go search for it manually and program a timer.


What you're describing is name-based recording, a topic that has been discussed at great length around here. I would also love to see name-based recording as a feature on dish pvrs. It's even been mentioned in a technical chat that it's a possibility that is being looked at. But, according to the lawyer types, there are patents issues involved because Tivo holds the patent rights to the name-based recording technology.

So, while the 921 doesn't have name based recording, it does have a search by name feature, and retains that that search in the history, so that it can very easily be pulled up again.

[Mark Lamutt]

I apologize if this question has been asked before, but has the 921 eliminated the use of an external smart card? I take it that everything is internal? The reason i ask is because i was reading up on the receiver and i saw in the brochure that there was a smart card recepticle in the front panel which you cannot see unless you open it. Anyhow im glad they covered it up if they use a smart card and if not even better cause i have a lil guy who likes to yank the smart card out every chance he gets! Anyhow someone let me know.

Thanks also great review!

The 921's smartcard is located behind a small sliding plastic door on the front of the receiver, in the center bottom position. It took me a minute to find it the first time I had to reboot.

[BobMurdoch]

Here's a question I hope you all can help me with....

My Sony KP57WV600 57" Rear Projection TV has an input it calls DVI-HDTV.

When ordering a DVI cable to run from the 921 to the TV directly, do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection. Also, the connection on the back of my TV is female. Is the DVI connection on the back of the 921 also female? Just trying to get the cable right on the first shot....... I need to get a 4 Meter cable and was planning on getting the Monster Cable DVI400 Cable to get the job done. I've got all my components in a corner cabinet 3ft. to the right of the TV, and with the vertical rise and the fact that the inputs are on the back left of the TV I need the extra length.

[tnsprin]

The 921's smartcard is located behind a small sliding plastic door on the front of the receiver, in the center bottom position. It took me a minute to find it the first time I had to reboot.
I knew they were going to have a smarcard reader, but I thought they said they would not ship with smart cards?

[Mark Lamutt]

I knew they were going to have a smarcard reader, but I thought they said they would not ship with smart cards?

The one that I have came with a smartcard in the slot.

[Mark Lamutt]

Here's a question I hope you all can help me with....

My Sony KP57WV600 57" Rear Projection TV has an input it calls DVI-HDTV.

When ordering a DVI cable to run from the 921 to the TV directly, do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection. Also, the connection on the back of my TV is female. Is the DVI connection on the back of the 921 also female? Just trying to get the cable right on the first shot....... I need to get a 4 Meter cable and was planning on getting the Monster Cable DVI400 Cable to get the job done. I've got all my components in a corner cabinet 3ft. to the right of the TV, and with the vertical rise and the fact that the inputs are on the back left of the TV I need the extra length.

The DVI port on the back of the 921 is female - you can see it in this picture of the back of mine: http://www.dbstalk.com/images/921/921_back_close-2.jpg

The port is DVI-I, so you'd certainly be safe ordering a DVI-I cable, although I'm almost positive you can find a similar quality cable for a much less expensive price than the Monster one you're planning on. But that's just my opinion.

[john72]

Thanks Mark, so does that mean your using a smart card with yours? I read the 522 was all internal, but someone was telling me with the 921 you still used your smart card, someone else mentioned how they were shipping with or without smart cards etc. Anyhow so your still using your smart card?

Thanks bud

[SParker]

I guess I am not understanding what you guys are talking about. You can't seamlessly switch from a HD channel to a SD channel without doing a bunch of mumbo jumbo?

[Doody]

I guess I am not understanding what you guys are talking about. You can't seamlessly switch from a HD channel to a SD channel without doing a bunch of mumbo jumbo?
of course you can. you might want to rephrase your question.

doody.

[SParker]

So i could have it set to 1080i output and have that for both HD and SD?

[Tom Horner]

So, while the 921 doesn't have name based recording, it does have a search by name feature, and retains that that search in the history, so that it can very easily be pulled up again.

Mark,
Thanks for this info and all your hard work. I have a couple of other questions about recording capabilities on the 921.

1. Can you record directly from the Guide? What I mean is if I am surfing through the guide and find something interesting can I push a record button to set a timer?

2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?

[Doody]

So i could have it set to 1080i output and have that for both HD and SD?
yes, the 921 will upsample the SD images to 1080i.

the problem is that if you want the best image quality, you probably don't want your 921 upsampling SD to 1080i - there are devices out there that can do that tons better than the 921, including, perhaps, your HD television.

doody.

[Doody]

2. Can you decide to record a show that is already in progress and have the 921 be smart enough to capture the entire show?

absolutely not. the unit would have to be recording EVERY channel ALL the time to have the immediate history available (and then discard completed programs you didn't ask for). the hard drive would die in a matter of minutes ;).

doody.

[BobaBird]

do I need a special kind of DVI cable (DVI-I, DVI-D, etc.) or will a DVI cable fit any DVI connection?See this thread (http://www.satelliteguys.us/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4765) over at SatelliteGuys. Good pictures and discussion. Read through it because there is some apparent misinformation that gets cleared up at the end.

The main points I brought away from it are a DVI-D cable can be used with a DVI-I jack
a DVI-I cable can not be used with a DVI-D jack because the jack can't take the 4 extra pins