FEATURE REQUEST: Dual outputs live

[alipka]

The basic issue here is to be able to use an outboard scaler (in my case, a Faroudja NRS) for SD stations, and the component/RGB/DVI output for HDTV.

The ease of activation of the S-output is crucial to this.

Otherwise, home theater owners (no doubt a big part of the 921 market) will be stuck with whatever scaling the 921 provides - which no doubt will be inferior to the large investments many of us have made in our scalers.

If both S-video and HD outputs are simulataneously active, this becomes easy.

A second choice would be discrete codes to select the output via IR - which I see has already been requested in this forum.

I just want to add my thanks for the opportunity to make suggestions that will actually be read.

[Mark Lamutt]

I've already asked the question to Dish about the ability to output svideo and component/DVI simultaneously - it's not possible with the hardware. But, hopefully the discrete codes can be added.

[tm22721]

I would exhort E* to leave the outputs are they are.

Any decent outboard scalar has multiple inputs for HD and SD with prioritized automatic switching between them. IE, if HD is active the scalar switches to the HD input otherwise it switches to the SD input. If you activate both 921 HD and SD outputs simultaneously it destroys the automatic switching feature making you resort to (ugh) manual switching between these inputs.

[Patrick Bennett]

Just as long as they have discrete codes for selecting SD or HD output, I'll be happy.
(now, if Dish would just get their act together and add RS232 control <grumble>)

[K R Kimmel]

True discrete hd/sd codes would be best given the hardware limitations.

The 6000 has a pseudo-discrete hd/sd code workaround. Sending the hd/sd code followed by the page up switches to HD and hd/sd followed by page down switches to SD, to make this work reliably on my pronto I need to insert a 0.2 second delay between the codes.

The hd/sd code still toggles between the modes the pg up/down then switches to / stays in the desired mode.

[Doody]

discrete codes are no panacea here, guys. you end up having to program each channel into your control system (be it pronto, crestron, amx, etc.).

the best solutions are, imo, as follows, with the top one being the most desirable:

a) just pass the signal through however it comes. don't deinterlace or scale anything. if the sat is getting 480i, pass 480i (or allow us to say "always deinterlace 480i to 480p before outputting" since some scalers can't take 480i in properly). if the sat is getting 720p, then just pass 720p. let the expensive scaler do the math. one cable from the 921 to the scaler. the scalers can generally deal with this stuff.

b) make both SD and HD outputs hot. this is not a panacea either, since your scaler will now be getting two hot signals: which does it choose? i'm not aware of any scalers having rules for stuff like that eg: "if two inputs are hot, pick the deinterlaced one", etc.

c) add discrete HD/SD codes. this isn't a great solution, IMO, but if you're dedicated enough, you can surely make it work. that 6000 hack is news to me - wish i'd known about that years ago!

both B and C would WILDLY benefit from discrete codes to get to favorites lists. you could basically have a "I want to watch HDTV" button that would select the HDTV favorites list and set up your system for that signal pathing; and an "I want to watch SDTV" button for ditto.

i'm really disappointed that DISH hasn't figured this out yet. the 921 is hardly their first HD unit. at least toss in SOME options and let us hack around with them - zero options makes it really tough ;)

my two drachmas.

doody.

<grumble grumble> RS232 control <grumble grumble>. violent agreement with you on that one, dude.

[Mark Lamutt]

discrete codes are no panacea here, guys. you end up having to program each channel into your control system (be it pronto, crestron, amx, etc.).

the best solutions are, imo, as follows, with the top one being the most desirable:

a) just pass the signal through however it comes. don't deinterlace or scale anything. if the sat is getting 480i, pass 480i (or allow us to say "always deinterlace 480i to 480p before outputting" since some scalers can't take 480i in properly). if the sat is getting 720p, then just pass 720p. let the expensive scaler do the math. one cable from the 921 to the scaler. the scalers can generally deal with this stuff.

And this solution is no good for people that don't have scalers. If this were the solution, I'd never be able to watch ABC or ESPN converted to 1080i because my television downconverts 720p to 480p when it senses a 720p signal. I need the Dish receiver to convert 720p to 1080i for me.


b) make both SD and HD outputs hot. this is not a panacea either, since your scaler will now be getting two hot signals: which does it choose? i'm not aware of any scalers having rules for stuff like that eg: "if two inputs are hot, pick the deinterlaced one", etc.

Not possible because of the hardware. I posted that earlier in this thread.


c) add discrete HD/SD codes. this isn't a great solution, IMO, but if you're dedicated enough, you can surely make it work. that 6000 hack is news to me - wish i'd known about that years ago!

Discrete HD/SD was added to the 6000 about a year ago, and I'm sure it'll get added to the 921 as well.

[Doody]

And this solution is no good for people that don't have scalers. If this were the solution, I'd never be able to watch ABC or ESPN converted to 1080i because my television downconverts 720p to 480p when it senses a 720p signal. I need the Dish receiver to convert 720p to 1080i for me.

understood.

that's why all these things should be configurable options. the whole HD -vs- SD and Component -vs- DVI -vs- Svideo and intelaced -vs- non-interlaced and 480 -vs- 720 -vs- 1080 means we have a BIG mess on our hands --- and it'll require more than a SMALL solution, unfortunately.

doody.

[ericha]

I can't believe how messy it is to put together an HD home theater. With both multiple picture formats & multiple audio formats, it's like you need an engineering degree just to watch TV! For this to become truely mass market, it will have to "just work". That means that there is only one way to connect things, and that whatever you connect always works. The current state of HD home theater reminds me of the PC industry in the 70's. It was a lot of fun if you were a hobbyist, but was far too complex for the average person.

[Richard Chalk]

The forced HD or forced SD selection on the 921 works the same as described below for the 6000. See users manual, page 29 (JVC Version) in the last paragraph under SD/HD BUTTON

True discrete hd/sd codes would be best given the hardware limitations.

The 6000 has a pseudo-discrete hd/sd code workaround. Sending the hd/sd code followed by the page up switches to HD and hd/sd followed by page down switches to SD, to make this work reliably on my pronto I need to insert a 0.2 second delay between the codes.

The hd/sd code still toggles between the modes the pg up/down then switches to / stays in the desired mode.