921 Switch/Dish related Q)

[Patrick Bennett]

I currently have 3 receivers. A 501, a 6000, and a 3xx-something.
All are hooked to an SW64 switch (A VERY flaky switch I might add).
I've got a Dish500 110/119 dish and a single 61.5 dish. I have a total of 6 cables coming into the house into the 64 switch with 3 of its 4 outputs used for these 3 receivers.

With my current setup, what are my options for the new 921 (which I definitely plan to buy) ? Can I still use my SW64 and just drop one of my current receivers, using up all 4 of my sw64 outputs? Do I need to get a type of switch?

What's this I hear about a 'superdish' and some of the new switches?
Should I buy something new(?), replace something(?), wait and replace later?
Will I ever be able to have more than 4 receivers, each HD capable?

Suggestions, comments?

(soap box time)
Despite the fact that the 921 is unfortunately little more than a digital VCR compared to a Replay or Tivo, the prospect of recording HD is simply far too alluring to pass up. Woohoooo! :grin:
Now, I just need to convince my wife...

[tnsprin]

It will work fine if you drop one of the current receivers and route 2 of the outputs to the 921.

Other options get complicated. DPP44 is not out, and if you used it you would need all NEW DishPro LNB's and a diplexor. Other combos are equally complicated and expensive, e.g two dp34, new DishPro LNBS and legacy adapter (for the 6000).

[Cab Driver]

Can I still use my SW64 and just drop one of my current receivers, using up all 4 of my sw64 outputs?

Yes.

Do I need to get a type of switch?

No.

What's this I hear about a 'superdish' and some of the new switches?
Should I buy something new(?), replace something(?), wait and replace later?[

No, No, No. (Superdish is only needed if your locals are on Superdish and you need locals from Dish.)

Will I ever be able to have more than 4 receivers, each HD capable?

There are two ways to expand beyond 4 receivers, both involving significant expense. The first is to buy an additional SW64, six satellite grade splitters, and three "load barrels". This would give you four additional receivers worth of capacity. The second way is to replace all the LNBs on your dishes with DishPro LNBs and replace the SW64 with two DishPro34 switches. This would also give you four additional receivers worth of capacity (plus the ability to add more DishPro switches for more capacity).

[Patrick Bennett]

The first is to buy an additional SW64, six satellite grade splitters, and three "load barrels". This would give you four additional receivers worth of capacity. The second way is to replace all the LNBs on your dishes with DishPro LNBs and replace the SW64 with two DishPro34 switches. This would also give you four additional receivers worth of capacity (plus the ability to add more DishPro switches for more capacity).

Sounds interesting. Where can I learn more about these options, where can I buy them, and how much would it cost me?

Considering how flaky the SW64 seems to be (one of my receivers takes about 10 tries to correctly get through a 'check switch' with it), the DishPro 34 switch sounds interesting. When I spoke to a Dish rep at this past years CEDIA, I just got a bunch of sympathetic nods and groans when I talked about the SW64. They mentioned how much better a new switch was (I'm assuming the DP34) and how it could be easily chained.
So, the real question is, total cost, and reliability, #1, and #2?

Thanks for the help so far guys!

[Patrick Bennett]

and legacy adapter (for the 6000).

That's not a problem, I don't care too much for my 6000. It's the worst receiver of all that I own (other than being the only hd-capable box). It was newer than the other receiver I had at the time but was a huge step backward in speed, display, and interface. I'm just glad I never payed more to 'upgrade' my 8vsb module. Doing anything to the 6000 at this point would be like polishing a turd. ;)

[Bowlin]

Considering how flaky the SW64 seems to be (one of my receivers takes about 10 tries to correctly get through a 'check switch' with it)

Have you considered that the problem might simply be unique to your particular equipment rather than something inherent in all SW64s? I've had an SW64 for about 18 months. I installed it myself and everything has worked properly since the first day. I use all 6 inputs (Dish 500 and a single dish) feeding 3 receivers.

I even feed the outputs of the SW64 to a patch panel that allows me to move a receiver to another room simply by changing a jumper at the patch panel (and physically moving the receiver, of course). Dish doesn't support anything other than a continuous single cable run from the SW64 outputs to (maybe) a wall jack, or even directly to the receiver, whereas I have 4 cable segments between each SW64 output and the associated receiver. It all works without a hitch.

Perhaps your individual SW64 is simply broken (it happens) or you've got a defective receiver...?

-Frank

[kstevens]

Have you considered that the problem might simply be unique to your particular equipment rather than something inherent in all SW64s? I've had an SW64 for about 18 months. I installed it myself and everything has worked properly since the first day. I use all 6 inputs (Dish 500 and a single dish) feeding 3 receivers.

I even feed the outputs of the SW64 to a patch panel that allows me to move a receiver to another room simply by changing a jumper at the patch panel (and physically moving the receiver, of course). Dish doesn't support anything other than a continuous single cable run from the SW64 outputs to (maybe) a wall jack, or even directly to the receiver, whereas I have 4 cable segments between each SW64 output and the associated receiver. It all works without a hitch.

Perhaps your individual SW64 is simply broken (it happens) or you've got a defective receiver...?

-Frank

My sw64 has been installed for 4 years now. Absolutely no problems with it at all. Switch checks pass the first attempt and I haven't had to do one until just recently when they installed my 811.

Ken

[tnsprin]

That's not a problem, I don't care too much for my 6000. It's the worst receiver of all that I own (other than being the only hd-capable box). It was newer than the other receiver I had at the time but was a huge step backward in speed, display, and interface. I'm just glad I never payed more to 'upgrade' my 8vsb module. Doing anything to the 6000 at this point would be like polishing a turd. ;)
As several others have said, sw64 is fairly reliable. Mine is more then 4 years old, is OUTSIDE in the elements, and has never caused me problems.

If you don't need 5 outputs (i.e., retire the 6000) rough costs to replace the sw64 with a DP34 are
DP34 $125
Dish pro Twin LNBF $80
Dish Pro Dual LNGF $55

If you need to replace any cable (rg6 is required for DishPro setup), add that to your costs.

Probably cheaper to wait and hope you can get Dish to pick up the costs, e.g, if they make it necessary for you to use a superdish to pick up locals,etc.

[Mike123abc]

My SW64 works very well, never have had a problem with it. A lot of people probably have problems with the sw64 because of the legacy cable length limits. 100' is not very far if you have to go through an attic/basement. The 200' limit of DP probably helps a lot.

[3.141 pi]

I just spoke with a Dish CSR about my existing system:
(Legacy quad on Dish 500, Legacy Dual on 2and Dish 300..3 SW 21 switches, 2 508s, one 6000)
His suggestion about 921 hook up: keep exsisting set up?!!!?!!, remove the 61.5 dish, replace with Dish 500 for the 921, since the second dish I have, @ 61.5 for the 6000 is useless ' cause the HD stuff is now on 110, except for CBS!!
All I wanted to do was watch a little telly!!!
It is now becoming a lot more complicdated!!
Your thoughts??
VB

[Mark Lamutt]

If you want to keep your existing three receivers, you'll need 2 more lines coming to the 921 location, so you'll need to replace some equipment. If you're willing to give up one of the receivers, then you'll need to replace the switches and run an additional line.

[krt]

Considering how flaky the SW64 seems to be (one of my receivers takes about 10 tries to correctly get through a 'check switch' with it), the DishPro 34 switch sounds interesting.

If your cable lengths are under 100', cable is all RG6, and you do not have any loose or rusted connectors, it is most likely a faulty switch, power inserter, or power supply. Try swapping receivers, and cables at the switch outputs to isolate which component is faulty.

I had similar check switch issues with the receiver connected to the power inserter of my SW64. Swapping the receiver did not help. Nor did swapping outputs 1 and 2 at the SW64, and moving the power inserter help. i.e. The problem always remained with the receiver connected to the power inserter. So, I had Dish replace both the power inserter and the power supply. This resolved the issue.

[keitheva]

I have a similar question. I currently have a Dish 500 Legacy Quad LNBF running 4 receivers. When I replace one of the receivers with a 921 I will need an additional connection (logically 5 receiveres). What switch options do I have for this?

Thanks.

[keitheva]

p.s. my 4 current receivers are 3 301s and 1 501. the 921 will replace a 301.

[Mark Lamutt]

keitheva - your best bet will be to replace the legacy quad with a dishpro twin or dishpro single lnbs and connect those outputs to 2 dishpro 43 switches to get your 5 outputs. Or, you could wait and get the dishpro plus 44 switch coming soon, but you'll still have to replace your lnbs with that. Your only other option that I know will be to replace your quad with legacy dual lnbs, and then purchase 2 SW64 switches to get your 5 outputs.

Not a cheap upgrade option in the lot.

[Patrick Bennett]

If you don't need 5 outputs (i.e., retire the 6000) rough costs to replace the sw64 with a DP34 are
DP34 $125
Dish pro Twin LNBF $80
Dish Pro Dual LNGF $55

Thanks! So I would just replace my current LNB's on the Dish 500 (and single 61.5 dish) with these DishPro lnb's? What about the 'SuperDish' stuff? Should I just wait until Dish forces me to go with the SuperDish and get a decent swap-out offer?

As for the SW64, my comments were based on what the installer said when he initially set it all up. He said he absolutely hated that switch and that he had nothing but problems with them. A tech. representative at CEDIA 2003 also acknowledged that there were a lot of problems with the SW64 switches. That said, I think the problems may indeed be with the power inserter/power supply as the receiver with 'issues' is the one on the power inserter feed. Hmm.....

[Mark Lamutt]

I never had any problems with my SW64 either in the 18 months that I used it before upgrading to dishpro last summer.

As for the superdish, ignore it unless you have local channels on 121 (or 105 for that matter). If you don't have locals there, you won't need it...except for some of the international programming that's going on 121.

[Patrick Bennett]

I thought HD programming will be moved to one of the new birds that a SuperDish is required for?

[BobaBird]

Your only other option that I know will be to replace your quad with legacy dual lnbs, and then purchase 2 SW64 switches to get your 5 outputs.The Quad can stay in place for this configuration - it has a mode to operate as 2 duals. With a Quad and no other switches, keitheva is not getting a side slot so 2 of the discontinued SW44s could be used if they can be found.

If you get locals through Dish and any of them come from a side slot, Dish is required to provide the equipment needed to get those channels at no extra cost to you. See http://ekb.dbstalk.com/19 .

[keitheva]

Thanks Mark and Charles.

Another option which I saw here,

http://ekb.dbstalk.com/129

appears to be: 4 splitters, 2 SW44 switches, and 2 "power inserters" (that would give me up to 8 receivers).

Does that sound right?

Any of these options look like a right royal palaver (especially compared to the very simple setup I have now), not to mention expensive. I may just drop one of the receivers for now and maybe go with the DP44 later.

Cheers,
-Keith

[BobaBird]

Yes, that's what we're talking about. You can hook up 2 SW44s (diagram (http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2001/6/MVC-004S.JPG)) or 2 SW64s (photo (http://www.dishretailer.com/ts2001/1/MVC-006S.JPG), PDF diagram (http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/installation/install-5.pdf)) in parallel. The diagrams show 2 dual LNBs but a Quad will also work.

The equivalent DishPro installation uses a DishPro Quad or DishPro Twin with 2 DP34 or DPP44 switches chained together using the satellite pass-through outputs.

[JerryLA]

After joining this forum today and reading all the input about the 921 I can't wait to get my hands on one. I currently have a Dish 6000 for my main viewing room and a 4300 for my bedroom. I have had constant problems with the SW64 switch. I've replaced it, replaced the receiver (both mid-summer) and still have occasional problems with satellite 119 going in and out. I've had Dish for about 8 years and this is the first problem I've ever had with the service. My question is about Dish Pro. I'm not really sure what this is. Can someone explain. When I add the 921 (as soon as I can get my hands on one) would it be a good idea to switch to another type of switch? I don't know if it makes a difference but I live in the mountains on the Western Slope of Colorado. Extreme cold weather here.

[Frank Z]

Jerry,
You won't need a switch if you are using a Quad LNB. I connected 2 of the ports to my 921 and one of the others to my 6000.

[moooog]

I will have a 921 and 501 soon - I just purchased a Dish Pro Quad lnbf to feed them, but the seller wants me to make sure it will work with the 921 before it ships. I don't see why either a legacy or a dish pro would not work - could someone correct me if I'm wrong? Thanks, Mark O. p.s. - I paid 90$ for the new quad - would I have been smarter to keep my twin and purchase a switch of some sort?

[fjerina]

I currently have a Dish 6000 and have two satellite dishs (one Dish 500 pointing to 110/199 and another dish to 61.5). I have those two dishes going to a SW21 then one coax line going to my 6000 input. When I get the 921 I hear I will need TWO lines going to the 921. What is the easiest and cheapest way for me to do that from what I currently have??? Thanks.

[Frank Z]

Depends on whether or not you are actually getting anything off of the 61.5 location. You might want to see if you can get rid of the 61.5 dish, then all you'll need is a quad LNB. 1a & 2a will go to inputs 1 and 2 on the 921, 1b goes to your 6000.

[fjerina]

Assuming I want to keep the 61.5 and get rid of my 6000 and just use the 921 what do you suggest???

[Frank Z]

HMMMM, I'm not a switch expert, but I would assume that a SW64 would be the way to go.

[BobaBird]

fjerina, just run another line. If you bought your 6000 bundled with a dish you should still have another SW21.

[tm22721]

Here's what I did. I had a Dish500/61.5/SW64 feeding 721 and D-VHS 5000 receivers.

I replaced my 61.5 dish (there's no HD on it anymore) with a new Dish 500 with twin Dishpro LNB and used that to feed the 921.

When the DP+44 comes out I will use that on the new dish to feed all receivers, then get rid of the old Dish500/SW64.

[James_Bruce]

I have had 4 SW-64's constant problems, and the cables are under 40' each all double RG-6. Installed the 921 today, "There is a problem with the switch matrix" Everything shows ok, and Dish had me check all spotbeams and transponders, no signal problems, all channels are ok, I am only getting about a hour ahead with the guide.. Dish is confused, they attribute it to my 148 dish.. I am going to give it overnight to think about it then I am picking up a SW-34.

[JerryLA]

James,
I know what you mean. I guess that is my biggest complaint with Dish. When I was having the trouble during last summer, I knew the problem was not with my receiver. I guess you have to jump through the hoops and eliminate certain possibilities before they can tell you what they think the problem is. We replaced my receiver and switch over a 4 week period only to determine "they think" the problem was with one of the LNBs. It was not that big a deal to replace my 6000,(it's covered under the extended service policy) so all it cost was some time and aggrevation, but I knew that was not the problem. I think when it warms up a bit I'm moving my SW64 indoors to the attic and check everything again before I get my 921. I got an email from Mark at DishDepot and he said it would probably be another 3-5 weeks before I get my unit. I read on a post here something about a Quad LNB. Would that eliminate the need for a switch at all. I am only feeding my HT area with the 921 and a bedroom feed. I would sure like to eliminate any problems before I get my new unit.

[SatBuddy123]

Just FYI, and I am not sure if anyone covered this, but you can take a DP Quad and a DP34 and get a total of 6 receivers out of it. That is if you dont need the 61.5 on two of the receivers.