811 OTA Signal Lock Problem - Dish Responds

[rvaidyan]

Hi folks!

A few days ago, I posted on the "811 Problems" thread a strange problem I was having. Suddenly, out of the blue, the 811 would not lock on *one* of my OTA digital channels (ABC being broadcast on ch. 43). The signal meter would stay stuck at 49% and the "ERROR DIGITAL SIGNAL LOST" message would display. Strange things happened. When I went into the "Manual Add DTV" setup, it would show a signal strength of 49% for a minute or so before jumping to 80-82% (green bar) and locking in. However, when I went back to the guide, it would not lock into the signal.

I tried everything, from adding a combiner with an indoor antenna, etc. (I have a huge external antenna on my roof) to rebooting the receiver and rescanning the channels. Nothing worked. The other OTA digital signals were fine (CBS, NBC, PBS, Fox) - it was only this ABC channel that wouldn't lock.

Finally, last night I hooked up my 6000 to the same cables and found it locked in to the ABC channel with no problem (signal strength ~ 80). I called Dish and asked them if they knew what was going on. Here's a quick summary of points forum members may find interesting:

1. Although they do not guarantee any OTA reception, they were willing to work with me since I was getting a good signal with the 6000 and not the 811.

2. This is NOT an issue they have heard of. They explicitly said they checked the "known issues" list and this is NOT something they recognize or are working on (despite some other reports of this problem in these forums).

3. They said there must be something wrong with the 811 because the 8VSB module in the 811 is the SAME as the one in the 6000 (then why doesn't the 811 one have a fan?) Thus, if I can get a signal on the 6000, I should be able to get it on the 811.

4. They agreed to ship me another 811 as a replacement. The warranty does not cover s&h, but they waived it for me because my 811 is barely 2 weeks old.

5. Overall, they were friendly, helpful, and cooperative. Here's *one* example of good customer service to add a voice to the complaints.

I'll let you know if the problem persists with the replacement 811. I still don't understand why (a) the problem exists with only ONE of the OTA channels, and (b) why the 6000 is able to lock into a signal that the 811 cannot if it is the same 8VSB hardware in both. I guess I'll hold on to my 6000 a little longer!

[gpflepsen]

I had this same symptom on my 811. It started after one of the SW updates. I solved it by adding an antenna pointed at the tower. My other antenna is pointed about 120 degrees away from this tower. I chalked it up to multi-path interference.

[rvaidyan]

I chalked it up to multi-path interference.

Yes, as I told the Dish tech support people, I think the problem *is* multipath interference. However, my problem was that it is very difficult in my setup to add another antenna (it would take a lot of work and the help of a professoinal for running cable, etc.)

I told the tech support person that the only reason I was calling them was that the 6000 had no problem locking in on the signal while the 811 couldn't. Essentially, I just unplugged the cables from the back of the 811 and plugged it into the 6000 and received a solid, locked signal.

I tried telling them it may have something to do with a SW upgrade, but they vigorously denied this was possible.

[gpflepsen]

I tried telling them it may have something to do with a SW upgrade, but they vigorously denied this was possible.


Well I know for a fact my 6000 with my old antenna system (a single antennacraft mxu-59) pointed at 37 degrees could pick up a very close (2-3 miles) low power DTV located at 300 degrees. I also know for a fact the 811 was practically the same in terms of picking up this signal. I also distinctly remember having the problem coinciding with the "Signal Lost" screen on the 811.

Multi-path has to be affecting the quality of signal, and I believe the 811 has implemented a quality (or signal/noise ratio) threshold (via software) for the receiver to lock on a signal.

[TonyM]

Yes, as I told the Dish tech support people, I think the problem *is* multipath interference. However, my problem was that it is very difficult in my setup to add another antenna (it would take a lot of work and the help of a professoinal for running cable, etc.)

rvaidyan...you wouldnt need another antenna. All 5 stations (KDLH, KBJR, WDIO, KQDS, WDSE) and their digital counterparts all broadcast from the same sight. (on the antenna farm)..

[rvaidyan]

rvaidyan...you wouldnt need another antenna. All 5 stations (KDLH, KBJR, WDIO, KQDS, WDSE) and their digital counterparts all broadcast from the same sight. (on the antenna farm)..
Yes, but an antenna facing about 10-20 degrees cross from the antenna farm helps reduce multipath effects. I find when I hold an indoor antenna (e.g., Silver Sensor) pointing slightly *away* from the antenna farm, I am better able to lock in to the WDIO (ABC) signal. WDIO seems to be the most fickle. It is almost like it changes. A long time ago, when I still was using primarily the 6000, I had to rotate my antenna away from the farm to get a good signal. Suddenly, one day, I lost the signal. Once KDLH (CBS) started broadcasting, I went back up to the roof and realigned my antenna towards the farm and the WDIO signal started coming in strong again! (weird, huh?) along with a fairly good KDLH signal. Now, I've lost WDIO again, but this time, it works with the 6000 and not with the 811.

This really is strange.

[RAD]

Never heard of this, what garbage! I was talking to an engineer/designer on the 811 team about OTA problems (811 not picking up 8VSB stations that 6K did) back in early December. He wanted to try swapping out my 811 for another one but after 1 1/2 weeks it hadn't happened, gee they didn't have any 811's to replace mine with.

[Sparkman87]

I have also had the same problem. Interesting thought that Rad & I are maybe 15 miles apart and we both have had the problem, but on 2 different channels. I still have it. Have not talked to any at DISH about it yet, so I'll wait to see what you hear before I go ahead and call them.

[goblues9]

I have also had the same problem. Interesting thought that Rad & I are maybe 15 miles apart and we both have had the problem, but on 2 different channels. I still have it. Have not talked to any at DISH about it yet, so I'll wait to see what you hear before I go ahead and call them.

I'm a relative newbie, but I have the same type of trouble geting a consistent lock from my 2 week old 811. I have no other basis of comparison for old equipment, but I'm only about 20mi from my towers and have worked my way up from indoor to now outdoor antennas. I seem to get a real bounce up and down on virtually all of my channels, with really no better luck as I've increased antennas. :confused:

I assume more complaints are better. What is the best route to get myself heard and address the issue for all?

Lonnie

[sbill67]

I have also had the same problem. Interesting thought that Rad & I are maybe 15 miles apart and we both have had the problem, but on 2 different channels. I still have it. Have not talked to any at DISH about it yet, so I'll wait to see what you hear before I go ahead and call them.
Not related to DISH, GO BEARS!!!
"JURON IS GONE" WHEAWWWW!!!

[rvaidyan]

************************
********UPDATE**********
************************

Well, Dish sent me a replacement 811 as they promised. I hook it up and it has the exact same problem. One OTA channel (ch. 43 - ABC) does not lock in. Signal strength stays at 49%. When I manually add the DTV channel, it turns green (80%) after a few seconds, but does not retain that lock when I exit the "Add Channel" section. When I call Dish to activate the new receiver and explain that it still has the same problem, CSR says that since it is a locals problem, I should not have been sent a replacement and he was surprised I got one. I explained that even now, when I plug my 600u in, it is able to lock into the channel just fine. He claims it could be something to do with the local station. Anyway, final outcome: nothing they can do about it and it is not their problem.

To summarize:

1. Despite the fact that 6000u locks in, but 811 doesn't, they insist it is not a receiver problem.
2. They will pass on the information to "engineering" who will see if the problem is with my local broadcaster.
3. Some people in Chicago area reported the same problem, according to CSR, and the problem was with local broadcaster.
4. Why does the 6000u have no problem with the signal despite it reportedly having the same 8VSB module as the 811? No one has any idea.
5. I may have to install an antenna rotor or second antenna w/combiner (when the snow melts off my roof in May).

[cpdretired]

************************
********UPDATE**********
************************

Well, Dish sent me a replacement 811 as they promised. I hook it up and it has the exact same problem. One OTA channel (ch. 43 - ABC) does not lock in. Signal strength stays at 49%. When I manually add the DTV channel, it turns green (80%) after a few seconds, but does not retain that lock when I exit the "Add Channel" section. When I call Dish to activate the new receiver and explain that it still has the same problem, CSR says that since it is a locals problem, I should not have been sent a replacement and he was surprised I got one. I explained that even now, when I plug my 600u in, it is able to lock into the channel just fine. He claims it could be something to do with the local station. Anyway, final outcome: nothing they can do about it and it is not their problem.

To summarize:

1. Despite the fact that 6000u locks in, but 811 doesn't, they insist it is not a receiver problem.
2. They will pass on the information to "engineering" who will see if the problem is with my local broadcaster.
3. Some people in Chicago area reported the same problem, according to CSR, and the problem was with local broadcaster.
4. Why does the 6000u have no problem with the signal despite it reportedly having the same 8VSB module as the 811? No one has any idea.
5. I may have to install an antenna rotor or second antenna w/combiner (when the snow melts off my roof in May).

I live about 15 miles from downtown Chicago. Everything locks in solid with a roof mounted antenna. The problem is WCIU OTA Ch. 26. The digital channel is 27. When I manually install it the channel will be mapped into the 811 at Ch. 1. I am unable to tune this channel.

[ibglowin]

Well folks I have the same exact problem with my 811. I owned 2 6000's that did not exhibit this problem and I own a 921 and a MyHD tuner that does not exhibit this problem.

The problem is also only on my local ABC DTV station. I get 49% for 5 seconds or so and then it seems to ramp up to 75% or so and will lock and hold once it locks. The problem is sometimes it doesn't lock.

As I said this only happens on my 811 and on ABC. It is NOT a multipath thing as all my signals come from an antenna located on top of Sandia crest (11,000ft) in ABQ and there is nothing but desert between me and the transmitter.

I am going to make a call to log this as a bug tonight.