View Full Version : Question about locals
pangderx
02-17-04, 07:19 AM
I was curious as to how the markets are selected to go to dish. Does E* and D* have to negootiate with each market? Seems kinda funny because I live in the Syracuse DMA and have been told for 4 years that my locals will be available "soon". I think the last time I checked, Syracuse was the 79th largest market and only something like 8 out of the top 90 markets havent been added yet, with some on the way in the near future? Is that E*'s fault or the Markets fault. I also have heard that DirecTv said they have no plans on bringning locals to Syracuse, which is crazy in my opinion. Just curious as to how it works.
!pu****!
The way I understand it, is that the satellite company (either Dish or DirecTV) contacts the local stations to start negotiations. Before the sat company can offer the station, the station must grant the sat company a retransmission agreement. In many cases, this retransmission agreement is readily signed if enough Washingtons are included with the paperwork in the case of commercial stations. If there isn't enough to help get the paperwork signed, then the satellite company does't get to carry the channel. The station's owners also could come back and say, "If you carry this city, then you need to carry these other 3 cities that we own as well at $X/station". This basically gives a smaller city station more clout by piggybacking on a larger cities station.
Once Dish has enough stations in the area, maybe 3 of the 5 major networks, then they will look for a site to consolidate each station's signal, digitize it, and send it via fiber to the uplink facility in Colorado. Usually the signals get consolidated at one of the station's building by the sat company leasing a bit of space from the station. Delivery methods can be either a direct feed from the station or just OTA.
In your case, it's possible that your area's stations are just too greedy or they have an arrangement with the cable company to help them stick to cable only.
I beleive there are some more details like must carry stations, low powered, etc...but I don't know all the details. Heck, I probably got half the above wrong anyways. :)
cdru
most of what you said is right :)
the 3 main reasons Dish or Direct pass over a town is
-is everyone going to agree on the retransmition...if youve only got 5 stations and 2 hold out, Dish will say "screw it" and go somewhere else.
-No Transponder space..this is the big one...If the spotbeam is full and there are no backups, they cant put up locals. Thats why a town like Sherman/Ada (which has 2 stations in its DMA) is on before some bigger towns...it had room on the TP to add them.
-DMA geographic area...I think this is why some areas arent on yet. If the spotbeam cant cover the whole DMA, they cant put the locals there and have to resort to something else (SD or wings)...that is probably why Duluth isnt on yet...there is room on 2 spotbeams, but, since the DMA goes over to the UP of Michigan, the spotbeam doesnt cover all the DMA.
Greg Bimson
02-17-04, 08:54 AM
It appears that markets are selected using different criteria. For example, many smaller markets are added because there is enough space on a spot beam to add them. Some are added because they have a high penetration of satellite subscribers.
DirecTV appears to add markets in the above manner. The more recent local market additions to their spot beam satellite have been to fill space that was available. Those markets include: Huntsville, AL; Colorado Springs, CO; Columbia, SC; and Columbus/Tupelo, MS.
The next slate of local market additions will add many top 100 DMAs. So many, in fact, that DirecTV will be left with only three markets in the top 100 not being served: Toledo, OH; Honolulu, HI; and Syracuse, NY. It appears that DirecTV is aiming for many of the bigger markets, and filling in the space left over with the smaller markets. There may not be enough space on a spot beam in order to add Syracuse. Syracuse may actually be outside of a spot beam.
Keep in mind that DirecTV has announced 123 markets that will be in service. DirecTV is to have 130 DMA's in service by the end of the year, as per conditions set forth when NewsCorp bought a controlling interest in Hughes. Also keep in mind that DirecTV is actively trying to used a different slot in the sky for some of the newly-announced additions. It could be possible, with another seven markets left to announce, that DirecTV could pick up Toledo and Syracuse at a later date.
FTA Michael
02-17-04, 10:26 AM
The ultimate answer is that Dish chooses the markets that will bring the most profit.
It has to be technically feasible. I'm sure there's a spreadsheet that includes number of DMA viewers, likely retransmission agreement fees, and average current competitors' price (including cable, D*), and which spits out the likely number of subscribers to be gained with how much profit.
homeskillet
02-17-04, 10:37 AM
I e-mailed my local CBS station about satellite, and they never responded. DirecTV has been mailing flyers and advertising on radio that Topeka, KS will be coming to DirecTV in April 2004 after #7 is launched.
I have Dish, and not having my locals is a MAJOR draw back. Topeka only has 4 full-power stations (ABC, NBC, CBS, PBS) and I heard their was room on the same spot beam Kansas City uses... not 100% sure of that though.
The KC beam (TP1 on 119) has KC and Tulsa, OK..and is to max (12 channels)
I e-mailed my local CBS station about satellite, and they never responded. DirecTV has been mailing flyers and advertising on radio that Topeka, KS will be coming to DirecTV in April 2004 after #7 is launched.
I've done the same with all of my local stations since my DMA is on the list for April 2004 and will be put on 7s also, all but 1 out the 7 replied, and said that they only know as much as I do about the date they will begin broadcasting to DirecTV at this point. It seems weird to me that DirecTV has not made any attempt to notify the residents (and subscribers to cable) that the Locals are coming, like in your DMA, since mine is 63 positions larger than yours on the DMA list, and mine is a sub 100 while yours in a plus 100. just doesn't make any sense? I get at least 2 adds in the mail every day from my cable provider, they fill my local stations and their cable channels with digital cable adds, and the newspapers, including my 2 super local town papers. I have even had them come to my front door begging that I upgrade to digital cable and they call me every week. As for Dish or DirecTV all we ever see in my DMA is 1 or 2 adds on national cable networks every month, what are they thinking, we are sub 100? :)
Thank you to those who have responded. I never really understood this process either and have never got around to asking. My thinking was always that E* was doing things backwards. I would think bringing locals to areas that were less populated first would make more sense b/c say if you live in or around a big city there were be a bunch of locals you could easily get OTA which isn't the case in remote or less populated areas. For example, I live around the Bangor, ME area and there are very few spots that you could actually get all you locals to come in OTA. You can usually get one or two but then good luck at being able to get the other two to come in good enough so it doesn't look it is "snowing". Which brings me to another question. I don't know when they would even be looking to bring locals to my area (or if they have the byrd's to cover my area) so I was hoping some one could tell me where I could find out this info or better yet just be able to tell me. Also I've noticed the abbreviation DMA used a lot and by reading them I kinda feel like I know what you are saying but it is bugging me I don't know what it actually stands for. Thanks in advance and sorry for being so long "winded."
Greg Bimson
02-17-04, 02:34 PM
Which brings me to another question. I don't know when they would even be looking to bring locals to my area (or if they have the byrd's to cover my area) so I was hoping some one could tell me where I could find out this info or better yet just be able to tell me.Portland/Bangor is supposed to go online once DirecTV's newest satellite, DirecTV 7S, is successfully launched and operational. Right now, the launching platform, Sea Launch, is preparing for the DirecTV 7S satellite. Sea Launch was formerly an oil rig in the Pacific Ocean, somewhere near the equator. The satellite has not been shipped from the manufacturer, Space Systems/Loral (SS/L). It is now expected the launch will take place in April. Therefore, Portland, ME, locals should be available by late May. How's that for service! :)Also I've noticed the abbreviation DMA used a lot and by reading them I kinda feel like I know what you are saying but it is bugging me I don't know what it actually stands for.DMA is Designated Market Area. It is how Nielsen measures the local TV audience. It is also determines how local channels are distributed to subscribers via satellite.
Also I've noticed the abbreviation DMA used a lot and by reading them I kinda feel like I know what you are saying but it is bugging me I don't know what it actually stands for.DMA = Designated Market Area. Its a region surrounding your television stations that Nelson Media uses to define the advertising area. Usually, it's the nearest major city(ies) but not always. You can see a map of all the DMAs
here (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/TVMarkets/index.htm). The satellite companies are forbidden from giving you one DMA when you live in another unless you can't receive a grade b signal. This is why some people "move" so that their "residence" is in another DMA and can get another DMA's signal or the national feed.
Thank you both. However, I believe that Bangor would not fall under the Portland DMA. Just to give you perspective it is about a 3 to 3 1/2 hour drive south on I-95 from Bangor. But I guess having direct TV getting locals to part of the state is a start. I will just have to be patient and wait for E* to pick up the area (however many more months/years that may take) and in the meantime just keep ordering the locals through the local cable company. Thanks again CDRU & Greg for taking time to respond.
Greg Bimson
02-17-04, 09:32 PM
RichJr, you are correct. Bangor stands as its own DMA.
cdru
most of what you said is right :)
the 3 main reasons Dish or Direct pass over a town is
-is everyone going to agree on the retransmition...if youve only got 5 stations and 2 hold out, Dish will say "screw it" and go somewhere else.
-No Transponder space..this is the big one...If the spotbeam is full and there are no backups, they cant put up locals. Thats why a town like Sherman/Ada (which has 2 stations in its DMA) is on before some bigger towns...it had room on the TP to add them.
-DMA geographic area...I think this is why some areas arent on yet. If the spotbeam cant cover the whole DMA, they cant put the locals there and have to resort to something else (SD or wings)...that is probably why Duluth isnt on yet...there is room on 2 spotbeams, but, since the DMA goes over to the UP of Michigan, the spotbeam doesnt cover all the DMA.
Whats interesting is my DMA Norfolk VA (41) we have had "D" for almost 2 years and for some reason "E" has passed us up. So I wonder if D and E get the same retransmission agreements or do both companies ask for something different?
Not sure about the Transponder space being avail, or if we are unable to be covered by a spotbeam.....
Supposed to maybe get "E" locals this summer....... but...... I'm not holding my breath....
Whats interesting is my DMA Norfolk VA (41) we have had "D" for almost 2 years and for some reason "E" has passed us up. So I wonder if D and E get the same retransmission agreements or do both companies ask for something different?
Not sure about the Transponder space being avail, or if we are unable to be covered by a spotbeam.....
D* & E* have to make different agreements with the stations...perfect example is Des Moines, IA...The ABC & WB took over a year (I think) to come to terms with E*, yet D* had them from day one..
Supposed to maybe get "E" locals this summer....... but...... I'm not holding my breath.
I wouldnt hold my breath...Duluth, MN was suppose to be coming last summer, then last fall, then January, now...who knows???
FTA Michael
02-18-04, 09:40 AM
Whats interesting is my DMA Norfolk VA (41) we have had "D" for almost 2 years and for some reason "E" has passed us up.Bingo! Just as no one is eager to build the third gas station on a corner, E*'s spreadsheet recognizes that a much lower percentage of market viewers will switch to E if they already have another DBS option.
Compare that to the Pigs Knuckle market with overpriced cable and a handful of inexpensive locals, especially if it fits just right in an existing spot beam. I tell ya, Dish does it by the numbers, just not the market rank numbers.
Greg Bimson
02-27-04, 07:33 AM
Syracuse has now been added to DirecTV's Local Receive Facilities (LRF) page. This is where DirecTV gathers the market's locals, and transmits them to the DirecTV uplink facilities, for distribution to their customers.
Click here to see the DirecTV LRF page, and look for the address of Syracuse's LRF. (http://www.directv.com/lrf/lrf.html)
It appears DirecTV will be serving Syracuse soon.
pangderx
02-27-04, 09:00 AM
Thats excellent! However, does this mean that locals will be "coming soon"? I have said before I have been an E* customer for 4 years ans have been told for 4 years that my locals were "coming soon". I had heard MAYBE 2nd Q of this year. Now that D* has a local recieve facility in Syracuse, does this mean a few months, a year? D*'s website still says they have no plans for locals in this market.
:uglyhamme
wfhuber
02-28-04, 05:22 PM
According to our local retailer E* is adding Syracuse this April. He is even advertising it here.
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