View Full Version : (Title Edited) 921 Failed, Replacements have started shipping now
FarNorth
03-13-04, 11:24 PM
Last Friday, my 921 locked up. Not completely sure but I believe L147 somehow didn't load and after that it wouldn't boot. After being told for almost a week that a replacement was going out, that it had 'interfaced with the shipping software,' that I could call back the next day and get a tracking number, the new unit never shippped. Now I have been told that Dish is not going to ship any 921s to anybody while they work on the bugs. This means that my machine doesn't work, they won't replace it, they haven't offered to repair my existing machinge and nobody knows when the situation will change. Seems fair to me.
That is just wrong. Have you escalated to managers? The CEO's office?
FarNorth
03-14-04, 01:05 AM
I've talked to a number of folks in the 'executive offices.' That is where the latest messages came from. I did get an email from the 'Technical Support' division saying they would call me. I'm not wildly optomistic.
Mike123abc
03-14-04, 01:11 AM
It really sounds like a hardware issue they are trying to work through. The more reports like this show up, the more it shows that they are really working on something and want to minimize the number of 921s in the field until it is fixed. I bet they recall all the ones in the field to fix this. If it were just a software issue, they probably would have opened the flood gates and sent the product out like crazy because they could fix later.
tgerrish
03-14-04, 05:50 AM
It really sounds like a hardware issue they are trying to work through. The more reports like this show up, the more it shows that they are really working on something and want to minimize the number of 921s in the field until it is fixed. I bet they recall all the ones in the field to fix this. If it were just a software issue, they probably would have opened the flood gates and sent the product out like crazy because they could fix later.
I got this distinct impression as well after talking to a "product escalation" guy at Dish; my unit was sent back in for repair a couple of weeks ago, but it really sounded like they have found more issues which probably cannot be fixed in software. I'm also betting that there is a recall of all 921s at some point to make some hardware fixes.
FarNorth
03-14-04, 12:27 PM
Here's the two emails I got:
<<I am sorry to hear what you have described in your message. Unfortunately, I am not able to provide any updates regarding the status you are requesting. However, I have passed your information on and asked if somebody could look into this. Please let me know if someone does or does not contact you about this in the next couple of days.>>
<< I am a part of the Technical Operation Department with Dish Network. If you could provide us with a phone number and a good time to reach you, we can call you at your convenience to discuss your current situation. Thank you. >>
So far, the only messages I got last Friday indicated that they weren't going to do anything.
Karl Foster
03-14-04, 12:43 PM
Have they offered you any sort of monetary compensation? I would call and demand a refund of your purchase price. $1000 to be treated like that is just plain wrong.
FarNorth
03-14-04, 06:17 PM
I called 3 numbers and left messages today and sent 2 emails. No response.
Mark Lamutt
03-15-04, 08:04 AM
I'm trying to find out what's really going on behind the scenes with this issue. FarNorth - you're not alone in this one. There are several people that have contacted me with the same issue - dead 921, and can't get any answer about repair or replacement.
I have reason to believe that there really are no 921s available at the moment, but that there will be soon (ie potentially in the next week or two depending on how testing goes). I don't believe that the holdup is related to the software.
FarNorth
03-15-04, 10:09 AM
I believe you are partially correct. There are no 921s "available" because there are none that have been through treatment and are cured. My guess is there are 921s in inventory but they don't want to send me another that will also fail. Of course, the obvious questions are:
1. When will updated 921s be ready for folks like me who are currently without?
2. What happens to those in the field, will they be replaced or wait until they fail?
3. If this problem is so serious that a quick fix isn't practical, how did it escape testing and how did this machine get released?
4. Surely someone at Dish is the head of the 921 team. Doesn't he have any idea when the problem will be resolved?
5. Can't someone find the time to call or email me every few days and let me know what is going on? I haven't heard a word from anybody since Friday morning.
Mark Lamutt
03-15-04, 10:41 AM
All excellent questions, and unfortunately I don't the answers to any of them. I don't have a lot of dealings with the head of the 921 hardware team. I mostly deal with the software team.
FarNorth
03-15-04, 12:26 PM
Well, good news.........sort of. I had a call from someone in the technical group and he shed some light on what is happening. Hopefully, I am not violating any confidences by relaying what I was told. First, the good news: They are going to loan my an 811 until they can either replace or repair my 921. Yes, I would have preferred that this happen 10 days ago but 811s, even refurbs, are in almost as short a supply as 921s. The bad or mediocre news: There are apparently several issues with the 921s, some hardware and some software. From what I've been told, the hardware side is primarily manifested by lines on the picture and other display issues. The software stuff we know about, missed recordings and lockups.
At this point, Dish is testing a number of solutions and, of course, the hardware issues are the most crucial as those cannot be fixed in the field. As I understand it This explains why they haven't replaced mine; why send me a new unit that will need to have a chip replaced later? Why do it twice? As I understand it, Dish - or a vendor - is going to have to open each new 921 they have and change a chipset. I have no idea what happens to those already in the field.
So when will new units be ready to ship and when will Dish be ready to repair others? The fellow I talked with couldn't give me a firm answer but his gut feeling was 2 weeks - which probably means 4.
If I am correct, the only real difference between the 811 and the 921 is the dual-tuner capability. If that's all there is, I'll get by.
Slordak
03-15-04, 01:14 PM
In my humble opinion, the biggest difference between the 811 and the 921 is that one is a PVR, and one is not. There are a slew of other differences too; hopefully you weren't using the DVI-I output to generate an analog signal, and you don't mind the channel guide being limited to 44 hours.
SimpleSimon
03-15-04, 07:17 PM
In my humble opinion, the biggest difference between the 811 and the 921 is that one is a PVR, and one is not. :hurah: :lol: :eek2: :p
FarNorth
03-16-04, 09:17 AM
Looks like I confused the 811 with the 721. I guess I can run my 510 an record SD off one feed and use the loaner 811 to watch live HD on the other. I guess.
Ronald K
03-16-04, 10:21 AM
Something does not make sense. The blue line issue is the only hardware related bug that I know of and it supposedly can be fixed by sending the 921 out for a 2 day repair.
Everything else is supposedly software related.
jsanders
03-16-04, 10:28 AM
The bad or mediocre news: There are apparently several issues with the 921s, some hardware and some software. From what I've been told, the hardware side is primarily manifested by lines on the picture and other display issues. The software stuff we know about, missed recordings and lockups.
At this point, Dish is testing a number of solutions and, of course, the hardware issues are the most crucial as those cannot be fixed in the field. As I understand it This explains why they haven't replaced mine; why send me a new unit that will need to have a chip replaced later? Why do it twice? As I understand it, Dish - or a vendor - is going to have to open each new 921 they have and change a chipset. I have no idea what happens to those already in the field.
It would be really nice if while fixing whatever hardware issue they are looking at, that they replaced the display chip to be able to drive HD and SD simultaneously, like the 811 does.... We can always hope, right??
David_Levin
03-16-04, 01:01 PM
Something does not make sense. The blue line issue is the only hardware related bug that I know of and it supposedly can be fixed by sending the 921 out for a 2 day repair.
Everything else is supposedly software related.
Is there a question there somewhere?
Modifying the boxes after the fact can be VERY expensive. This would be hand labor as opposed to the automated manufacuring. It could easily be as much human labor time as the original build. Then they also have around $50 in round trip shipping.
If they are modifying something in production, that could easily create the 2-3 month delay that we're seeing (they might be spinning the motherboard).
Also, we don't know for sure that the blue-line problem is the only hardware issue they're looking at. Poor timing or signal integrity could easily cause the instability we're seeing.
David_Levin
03-16-04, 01:05 PM
It would be really nice if while fixing whatever hardware issue they are looking at, that they replaced the display chip to be able to drive HD and SD simultaneously, like the 811 does.... We can always hope, right??
One could dream. The scaler in the 811 has to be able to output two streams at different resolutions simultaneously (effectively, you need two scalers). You then need separate signal paths on the motherboard. They'd probably have to redesign & replace the motherboard.
Even if they're looking at changes to fix the other problems they probably wouldn't to anything that extreme.
sleepy hollow
03-16-04, 01:27 PM
Is there a question there somewhere?
Modifying the boxes after the fact can be VERY expensive. This would be hand labor as opposed to the automated manufacuring. It could easily be as much human labor time as the original build. Then they also have around $50 in round trip shipping.
If they are modifying something in production, that could easily create the 2-3 month delay that we're seeing (they might be spinning the motherboard).
Also, we don't know for sure that the blue-line problem is the only hardware issue they're looking at. Poor timing or signal integrity could easily cause the instability we're seeing.
Agreed. I am beginnning to believe that the OTA instablities are h/w related. Signal lock should not be so tenuous with the signal strength levels I am getting, but it seems very fragile. That to me is indicative of h/w instability, but I am speculating.
jsanders
03-16-04, 01:34 PM
Agreed. I am beginnning to believe that the OTA instablities are h/w related. Signal lock should not be so tenuous with the signal strength levels I am getting, but it seems very fragile. That to me is indicative of h/w instability, but I am speculating.
The last build, they updated the FPGA if you remember.... There was a hardware problem, and it isn't unreasonable to think there are more to come. FPGAs are very expensive, maybe they are *also* waiting to work out some kinks and replace it with an ASIC in future 921s.
jgoggan
03-16-04, 02:17 PM
Something does not make sense. The blue line issue is the only hardware related bug that I know of and it supposedly can be fixed by sending the 921 out for a 2 day repair.
Everything else is supposedly software related.
I think the idea is that since the 921s have been on QA Hold for a while now -- and none are shipping -- that it might be more than just software issues.
We all know that, in the past, Dish has certainly continued shipping some other units with known software issues with the intent of fixing them with an update later. In this case, they won't let any more 921s out -- apparently even as swaps for bad 921s in some cases -- which seems to indicate that there might be more to it than just software bugs...
I guess we'll have to see. All I know is that I'm still waiting in line even though I wouldn't mind at all having a 921 and dealing with the current bugs... :)
- John...
sleepy hollow
03-16-04, 02:38 PM
The last build, they updated the FPGA if you remember.... There was a hardware problem, and it isn't unreasonable to think there are more to come. FPGAs are very expensive, maybe they are *also* waiting to work out some kinks and replace it with an ASIC in future 921s.
Sorry, but you are at the fringe of my knowledge. What's an FPGA? I assume an ASIC is a monster A/D chip or chipset?
Otherwise I am in complete agreement with the other posters. I think they are zeroing in on the troubles. Finally, I have to say I am very optimistic about the future of this product, current experience notwithstanding. I really think they are tackling very complex technologies and user interface issues here. I really have to wonder about the ability of competitors to stay up. Maybe I am wrong, but it will be interesting to watch either way.
CATV will have tremendous difficulties with more complex technologies. they are simply not set up for this. They are having enough troubles roillking out Digital CATV, a mere "replacement" for what they already have. I do not knw about D*, but they are outsourcing it and have lower quality HD technology in their downlinks.
What a blast either way.
jsanders
03-16-04, 03:33 PM
Sorry, but you are at the fringe of my knowledge. What's an FPGA? I assume an ASIC is a monster A/D chip or chipset?
An ASIC is an application specific integrated circuit. They can be anything, an A/D, or glue logic on a PC for chip selects. The FPGA is a programmable gate array chip. Basically, it is just a big pile of transistors that can be wired on the fly to become anything. It is usually used to develop the chip before it gets sent to a fab and cut in stone, the ASIC can't be changed.
I have heard of some cisco routers that have FPGAs to enable future hardware upgrades.
FarNorth
03-17-04, 09:35 AM
I think the idea is that since the 921s have been on QA Hold for a while now -- and none are shipping -- that it might be more than just software issues.
We all know that, in the past, Dish has certainly continued shipping some other units with known software issues with the intent of fixing them with an update later. In this case, they won't let any more 921s out -- apparently even as swaps for bad 921s in some cases -- which seems to indicate that there might be more to it than just software bugs...
I guess we'll have to see. All I know is that I'm still waiting in line even though I wouldn't mind at all having a 921 and dealing with the current bugs... :)
- John...
I believe you are correct. From what I can gather, Dish techs are going to have to replace chipsets in every new unit in stock as well as upgrade software. That means there are likely new units there in the warehouse that will have to be opened up, pieces swapped out and then made ready. Since they are shipping me a loaner 811, that would indicate to me they are at least 2 weeks away from having any updated 921s ready to ship. Once they have 100 or so, they'll send out the replacements to everyone like me who is an existing owner with a bad 921. Once those are covered, then they'll start to ship to new customers and notify the remaining existing owners that they would like to swap their units out. If I had to guess, new units won't be shipped to new customers for at least 6 more weeks.
One other point: If/when your 921 is sent in for the new chipset, you will not get that unit back, you'll get a new one. This means there are going to be a bunch of refurbed 921s for sale at some point. I've been told that there are somewhat less than 1,000 in the field so my guess is that 3-400 will get fixed and sold for cheap some day.
I bet they'll end up as repair stock.
It was noted on AVS that last week the exec office started taking credit card numbers for the old 5000+Mod users, but aborted later when more "issues" came up. So hopefully we're getting close.
FarNorth
03-20-04, 10:58 AM
Got my 811 loaner yesterday. Spent an hour on the phone with 2 different techs before they figured out an 811 can't see 148. I have no idea why. At any rate, the 811 does get HD but it doesn't record, as I said above, it doesn't get 148 and it is a single tuner. In short, it ain't a 921. I have a 510 on one line for recording SD and I'll use this 811 to watch live HD and I'll get by for a while. Hopefully, the 921s will be fixed and ready for release in a few weeks.
Throwbot
03-20-04, 07:13 PM
What a bloody huge cock up this has all been, with the HD Tivo coming out this month someone at Dish must be in a position of accountability, and right now his/her job, and any future hopes of employment are non gradus anus rodentum....
(Post translation below)
Who said quidquid latine dictum sit; altum videtur?
Anyway until they ship the 921 I've nowt better to do.:barf:
FarNorth
03-20-04, 08:20 PM
The only plausible explanation I can come up with is maybe a vendor screwed up and the production parts didn't match the prototype sample. It's happened before.
Mike123abc
03-21-04, 01:55 AM
At least it appears Dish is working to solve the problem before more 921s get out into the field... Will be interesting to see if they can get out before TiVo ships... Dish is running out of time fast.
lex61564
03-21-04, 08:06 AM
I got a voice mail from dish saying a replacement 921 will be on the way in a coupe of weeks. The funny thing is, I was to receive a replacement for the one I had which a blue line problem, when weeks went by I called and they said that I called and canceled the refurbished unit, I never did that but said OK because my blue line problem went away and I was not sure a refurbed unit would be all around as good as mine, everything else with my 921 was fine from the beginning, all except the short lived blue line. If I get the refurb it may have other problems that I never had with mine. I may refuse it if it ever comes.
I got my 811 loaner yesterday to temporarly replace my dead 921. I must admit I was impressed with the quick response by Dish on my problem with the 921. I would never get that kind of response from a cable company. I don't mind waiting until they get the 921 working right as long as it is not to long.
My 811 does not detect the 148 at the check switch (DP34) either. However, the channels from the 148 are working fine when I tune to them (mostly spanish in my area). Can't explain it, but they work. I am really enjoying the clarity and color the DVI 400 cable is giving me. No problem with ota. I get all the local networks in digital ota with strong steady signals.
fox
Mark Lamutt
03-21-04, 11:02 AM
The 811 not seeing 148 when connected to a DP34 switch is a known bug with the 811.
FarNorth
03-21-04, 11:40 AM
The 811 not seeing 148 when connected to a DP34 switch is a known bug with the 811.
Well, the 2 techs didn't know about it and, as my mother used to say, "that don't make it right." Why Dish hasn't fixed this is not clear to me.
I have 3 dishes here, one each seeing 110, 119 and 148. 3 line feeds to what I assume is the DP 34, 2 coax feeds to the house where one feeds my replacement 811, the other feeds my 510. How much trouble and expense to change the DP 34?
Mark Lamutt
03-21-04, 11:52 AM
Quite a bit - you're only option would be to replace the LNBs on all 3 of your dishes to legacy duals, and run 2 lines from each dish to a legacy SW64 switch.
The 148 bug with the 811 is supposed to be fixed in the next release, but 811 releases don't come out as often as 921 releases do. Different software teams.
And, please, with that - any more 811 discussion needs to be in the General Dish forum.
What a bloody huge cock up [...] and right now his/her job, and any future hopes of employment are non gradus anus rodentum...I agree, their job is not worth a rat's ass!
Fortunately, bugs and all, my 921 is still worth slightly more. :D
Son of a Gun!!!
A replacement 921 was just delivered. My previous died 2/22. Dish must now be releasing the 921 again. Good news!
FarNorth
03-24-04, 08:42 PM
That _is_ good news. I'll give them a few days to work through the list and check on mine. Mine died 3/6 so maybe another week or so. Meanwhile, my loaner 811 is working fine but I sure miss all the features of the 921.
David_Levin
03-25-04, 07:27 AM
Remlee:
You may have the first of a new batch of 921s with whatever hardware fixes were holding back supply.
Any idea if the box was new or a refurb? Did it have to take an initial software download?
Obviously, let is know how it performs (particularly display issues and reboot frequency).
Mark Lamutt
03-25-04, 07:43 AM
Display will be more important than reboot frequency - rebooting is a software issue.
David_Levin
03-25-04, 12:37 PM
rebooting is a software issue.
I sure hope so, but Dish hasn't told us what caused the QA hold (unless you know for sure).
Mark Lamutt
03-25-04, 12:43 PM
Mark Duffy told a user here in an email that it is definitely a hardware issue that forced the QA hold on the 921s.
tgerrish
03-25-04, 01:41 PM
Mark Duffy told a user here in an email that it is definitely a hardware issue that forced the QA hold on the 921s.
Mark - any idea what the hardware issue is? If you know (and are allowed to tell us), can this problem be patched in software for existing 921s in the field?
Mark Lamutt
03-25-04, 02:12 PM
I don't have that information, tgerrish, and even if I did, I doubt I'd be able to tell you.
So Mark.......
On Saturday I'm gonna swap the newly arrived 921 for my crippled unit. How will I be able to tell if the replacement unit is new or a refurbished one??
Mark Lamutt
03-25-04, 03:39 PM
There should be an indication on the shipping box. Other than that, I have no idea.
lex61564
03-25-04, 09:11 PM
I got my refurbished 921 today, it has been over a month, I quickly sent it back since my original 921 blue line problem just faded away as soon as it came.
jsanders
03-25-04, 11:04 PM
I got my refurbished 921 today, it has been over a month, I quickly sent it back since my original 921 blue line problem just faded away as soon as it came.
Let's hope the blue line problem doesn't come back just as soon as it left! :)
lex61564
03-26-04, 08:19 AM
I have had my fingers and thumbs crosses ever since......
lex61564
03-26-04, 08:22 AM
I meant toes...... :nono2:
Mainstreet
03-26-04, 03:11 PM
How will I be able to tell if the replacement unit is new or a refurbished one??
The Serial Number of a new receiver starts with an "R ".
Refurbished units start with "W", "C", "Y" or something similar.
Well, my wife just called and said UPS dropped off a big red Dish Network box today, so it looks like they're finally shipping out replacements for failed units.
Like the rest of you, after being repeatedly misled by CSR's that the replacement had "just shipped", I finally got a response late last week and early this week (email and voicemails while I was out of town) saying shipments were on hold and I'd get one as soon as they were ready.
Things would have been alot simpler and less-stressful for everyone if Dish had just instructed their CSRs to give out honest, accurate information in the first place. ;)
I think this is a hopeful sign for those of you still waiting on new ones.
Mainstreet:
The serial number starts with RAEHEP... so according to your information, this 921 is new. Here's hoping that it works!!!
Well, my wife just called and said UPS dropped off a big red Dish Network box today, so it looks like they're finally shipping out replacements for failed units.
Like the rest of you, after being repeatedly misled by CSR's that the replacement had "just shipped", I finally got a response late last week and early this week (email and voicemails while I was out of town) saying shipments were on hold and I'd get one as soon as they were ready.
Things would have been alot simpler and less-stressful for everyone if Dish had just instructed their CSRs to give out honest, accurate information in the first place. ;)
I think this is a hopeful sign for those of you still waiting on new ones.
Got my 921 replacement today too. Works nice!
FarNorth
03-26-04, 08:30 PM
My cupboard is still bare. I'll call them on Monday, I guess.
Will Wonders Never Cease.....
It turns out my replacement 921 was a new unit, and so far it seems to be working perfectly.
FarNorth
03-27-04, 05:12 PM
I called today. Nobody knows nothing.
SimpleSimon
03-27-04, 05:38 PM
The Serial Number of a new receiver starts with an "R ".
So R means notRefurbished :lol: :rolleyes:
The Serial Number of a new receiver starts with an "R ".
Refurbished units start with "W", "C", "Y" or something similar.
Called Dish today on the status of my replacement 921. I've been calling on a daily basis for the last 10 days or so trying to get a tracking# so I know when delivery will take place. I'm not real comfortable leaving the unit on the step all day. The standard answer up to this point has been, "try again tomorrow". I got a different answer today. After checking on shipping status, the CSR said there are no 921's available for shipment at this point. She went on to say that they will become available Thursday, and most likely mine will be shipped out then. I asked why Thursday, and she said a new shipment from the factory is expected. I know I should take what the Dish CSR's say with a grain of salt. I also know this could mean a fresh batch of refurbs, but I got the impression these were new units. Anyway I thought the whole thing was intresting in that the answer to the shipping question was different, and moving in the direction of the 921's becoming available again shortly.
!pride
Eagles,
Maybe the "Powers That Be" at Dish finally figured out that it would be a good idea for their CSR's to start giving out accurate information. ;)
FWIW, mine was sent Next Day Air. It was marked "New Replacement" and its number began with an "R". This makes sense, as there have probably been few if any returned units available to be turned into "refurbed" stock.
Also, my original unit had the "blue line" problem. Even though I had that unit fixed, the new unit's analog video outputs look noticably better than the old ones. 'looks like they nailed whatever issue they had with some of the some units.
jsanders
03-29-04, 01:19 PM
Also, my original unit had the "blue line" problem. Even though I had that unit fixed, the new unit's analog video outputs look noticably better than the old ones. 'looks like they nailed whatever issue they had with some of the some units.
Which analog inputs are you looking at? SD, or HD, or both?
Which analog inputs are you looking at? SD, or HD, or both?
HD. I never bother with the SD outputs.
jsanders
03-29-04, 03:32 PM
HD. I never bother with the SD outputs.
Cool! Have you looked at the overscan on your new 921? Any improvement?
I didn't look closely at any overscan issues, although as that is under software control I wouldn't expect any change just from a hardware change. What are you referring to?
jsanders
03-29-04, 05:38 PM
I didn't look closely at any overscan issues, although as that is under software control I wouldn't expect any change just from a hardware change. What are you referring to?
We (this message board) did a lot of testing on the 921 overscan issue. We found that when using the DVI connector, the 921 had almost no overscan on a 'normal', unstretched, unzoomed picture. When the 921 was connected using the component video, the 921 exhibited a very noticeable amount of overscan.
We were using as a reference, the HDNet Test patterns that usually air for 10 minutes at 8am EST on Tuesday mornings.
Someone on the message board believed this issue could be traced to a specific chip that does the digital to analog conversion, or something similar to that. It appeared to be a hardware issue, and not a software issue. That is why I am curious......
We (this message board) did a lot of testing on the 921 overscan issue. We found that when using the DVI connector, the 921 had almost no overscan on a 'normal', unstretched, unzoomed picture. When the 921 was connected using the component video, the 921 exhibited a very noticeable amount of overscan.
We were using as a reference, the HDNet Test patterns that usually air for 10 minutes at 8am EST on Tuesday mornings.
Someone on the message board believed this issue could be traced to a specific chip that does the digital to analog conversion, or something similar to that. It appeared to be a hardware issue, and not a software issue. That is why I am curious......
Well, the way my monitor is set up right now, it has quite a bit of overscan itself, so I'd have a tough time noticing.
In fact, overscan is usually under the control of the display device. If you're saying the 921 is "overscanning", that would mean it is not outputting a portion of the picture. The only way to really judge this would be to connect the 921 to a monitor that intentionally underscans, so that you can examine the edges of the picture (studio monitors commonly have a setting for this). One could then see if the 921 is actually cropping the picture itself, instead of this just being some function of the way the analog inputs on the display device were configured.
deweybrunner
03-30-04, 10:26 AM
Thread just reported that e took the 921 off the market due to technical problems according to radio shack.? wonder what they are going to do with those out that are giving problems such as mine!
According to Radio Shack???? What an awesome source.
Mark Lamutt
03-30-04, 11:25 AM
Not true...
deweybrunner
03-30-04, 11:29 AM
Starting hyper-ventilating for a short time til Mark gave me a re-assurance. Rumors can be devastating. Most Sears and Radio Shack dealers don't even know what a 921 is or how to sell one!
Called Dish today on the status of my replacement 921. I've been calling on a daily basis for the last 10 days or so trying to get a tracking# so I know when delivery will take place. I'm not real comfortable leaving the unit on the step all day. The standard answer up to this point has been, "try again tomorrow". I got a different answer today. After checking on shipping status, the CSR said there are no 921's available for shipment at this point. She went on to say that they will become available Thursday, and most likely mine will be shipped out then. I asked why Thursday, and she said a new shipment from the factory is expected. I know I should take what the Dish CSR's say with a grain of salt. I also know this could mean a fresh batch of refurbs, but I got the impression these were new units. Anyway I thought the whole thing was interesting in that the answer to the shipping question was different, and moving in the direction of the 921's becoming available again shortly.
!pride
Well some misinformation from Dish turned out to be good news for me. I received a call from my Mother-in-law. She said a large box came via UPS.
It is my replacement 921. It appears Dish was off by a couple of days in my favor. I will post when I get home to let everybody know if it's a new unit or refurb, and if as I read somewhere on this forum, the SD picture via the HD output is noticeably better. As a side note, when my mother-in law called me to inform me of the delivery, she did not know exactly what it was. This prompted me to call Dish, and they did confirm the delivery. The CSR went on to tell me that they (Dish CSR's) are no longer are authorized to RA 921's. She said this was because Dish has found that there were no hardware problems at all with about 80% of the returned units. She said all future 921 issues will be immediately directed to and rectified via the 921 engineering department. I was under the impression that all the initially released units had hardware problems. Anyway I can't wait to get home and hook the new unit up. !pride
jsanders
03-30-04, 11:36 AM
In fact, overscan is usually under the control of the display device. If you're saying the 921 is "overscanning", that would mean it is not outputting a portion of the picture. The only way to really judge this would be to connect the 921 to a monitor that intentionally underscans, so that you can examine the edges of the picture (studio monitors commonly have a setting for this). One could then see if the 921 is actually cropping the picture itself, instead of this just being some function of the way the analog inputs on the display device were configured.
Yep! You got it! We found this out by setting out monitors to do a lot of underscan to see how much of the picture was cropped on the 921 via the HDNet test patterns I mentioned. A few guys took meticulous photos to demonstrate the effect.
Anyway, if you get a chance, let us know if there is any improvement in that arena, since you said the picture looked improved on other fronts!
Mark Lamutt
03-30-04, 01:43 PM
Well some misinformation from Dish turned out to be good news for me. I received a call from my Mother-in-law. She said a large box came via UPS.
It is my replacement 921. It appears Dish was off by a couple of days in my favor. I will post when I get home to let everybody know if it's a new unit or refurb, and if as I read somewhere on this forum, the SD picture via the HD output is noticeably better. As a side note, when my mother-in law called me to inform me of the delivery, she did not know exactly what it was. This prompted me to call Dish, and they did confirm the delivery. The CSR went on to tell me that they (Dish CSR's) are no longer are authorized to RA 921's. She said this was because Dish has found that there were no hardware problems at all with about 80% of the returned units. She said all future 921 issues will be immediately directed to and rectified via the 921 engineering department. I was under the impression that all the initially released units had hardware problems. Anyway I can't wait to get home and hook the new unit up. !pride
Ah, Eagles, you edited your message here after I saw it the first time... :)
I have some reason to doubt the statement that 80% returned had no hardware problems. It's almost a certainty that at least some of them have the video hardware problem that has forced the 921 into a QA hold status. But, I also think that not all of them were affected by the hardware problem. I don't believe the 921 that I have is affected, but my 921 is from a production run earlier than any of yours.
As for the CSRs no longer part of the RA process for the 921, I don't have information about that, but it sounds like a damn good idea to me.
FWIW, I don't think my 921 failure was due to a hardware problem. Something got corrupted during a software download, in a manner that was unrecoverable. I bet once Dish gets their hands on it and overwrites the bad code with good code, it'll be functional again.
satdish
03-30-04, 06:02 PM
after waiting for about 6 weeks i just received my replacement receiver. all seems to be working well so far. interesting thing i just noticed, i live in albquerque area, which is a new broadcast area for usdtv which is broadcasting a small subscription package including locals in my area. the problem is that the 921 is seeing these channels during a dtv channel scan and mislabeling these channels with our regular local channel numbers. however i go to the guide and it shows usdtv and the sub menus with their channel numbers. my concern is that this receiver has enough problems executing timers. it seems that this will only add to the confusion.
also i just noticed this thing failed to execute local channel timer recording, somethings dont change i guess. richard
Jacob S
03-30-04, 06:59 PM
Isn't there a law that would allow those that had a product fail on them that cannot get it replaced (at least in a reasonable amount of time) should be due a refund upon demand?
FarNorth
03-30-04, 09:18 PM
Maybe but your squawk would be with the retailer, not Dish, since they didn't sell it to you.
FWIW, I was told today that mine will be shipped "late this week." We'll see.
FarNorth
04-01-04, 08:32 PM
Well, waddya know. I called Dish late yesterday and was told, 'no word, should ship Thursday or Friday.' This morning, the UPS guy rings the doorbell with my new 921.....I'm almost afraid to plug it in but here goes nothin'.
Well, waddya know. I called Dish late yesterday and was told, 'no word, should ship Thursday or Friday.' This morning, the UPS guy rings the doorbell with my new 921.....I'm almost afraid to plug it in but here goes nothin'.
So, do the UPS guys use snowmobiles up there? :lol:
Well, waddya know. I called Dish late yesterday and was told, 'no word, should ship Thursday or Friday.' This morning, the UPS guy rings the doorbell with my new 921.....I'm almost afraid to plug it in but here goes nothin'.
Hey guys, been following up on all this for a while and this is my first post. I too had my 921 fail 2 weeks ago. I was watching a program and all of a sudden I started to hear a loud clicking sound in the room... it was coming from the 921. I put the unit in standby but the clicking continued. I did a reboot by unplugging it but that never revived the 921. A message came on the screen that indicated a hard drive failure had occurred. I then realized the hard drive crashed.
I called dish went through the typical procedures to revive it and nothing. They gave me an RA for it and to make a long story short after a week I finally got the replacement Thursday morning. It seems to be a new unit; the serial number starts with "R". I also noticed that the "dishwire" ports were covered with a white sticker blocking the ports. That kind of got me nervous. Was it a protective cover over the ports or is this an indication of the ports not being turned on at all?
Before my 921 died it was working well other than the typical bugs everyone was experiencing. It only rebooted 3 times in the 2 months that I had it. I also noticed a blue line problem (but very minor through the RGB adapter connection). I wanted the dust to settle on the problems with the unit before calling in the blue line problem, but it died unexpectedly. One last thing, when I set up the replacement I noticed that L149 was already loaded and ready to go. The only problem I'm having with the replacement is with the OTA tuner. Whenever I try to check levels on OTA channels it locks up on me. Hopefully I will have better luck with this unit. Thanks guys and keep up the good work.
Ted
FarNorth
04-02-04, 09:55 AM
No, he didn't use a snowmobile...although, if UPS ever does, they darn sure better be Polarises! (I owned a Polaris dealership for many years.)
At any rate, I got home last night, plugged the unit in and it worked perfectly. It appears to be a new unit with the cables and remote removed but it has apparently been run or modified as it had 149 already loaded.
The unit booted up flawlessly and performed fine. I'll ship back the dead 921 today. I may hang on to the loaner 811 for a few days, though.....
After reading through this whole thread, I am confused about the (likely) state of my 921 hardware. Mine shipped in mid-January.
I have periodically seen the thin blue line problem, but I can't say for sure that this problem, or any others I see, are not software. Did all early units definitely have a hardware problem that means I should RA it? If not definitely, are there serial number ranges that indicate a HW problem?
Or was the whole QA hold something that is unimportant to me?
FarNorth
05-04-04, 10:27 AM
Well, the blue line thing appears to be intermittent. Both of my units have shown it from time to time. If I were you, I'd wait a bit more and then ask to have your unit exchanged. I have heard that at one point, Dish was considering a recall/exchange program but that seems to have gone away and they are no likely just going to take care of the units when they fail or when customers ask for replacements. I believe there is a hardware issue in your unit that will fail eventually.
And, I suppose, here's the ultimate decider: If you call Dish and ask them to exchange yours, you'll get your new one before they get yours back. When - if - they test your original unit and find everything works fine, what are they going to do? Call you up and ask you to take your original unit back?
Redster
05-04-04, 11:31 AM
I am getting so confused over this,, how many versions do they have of the 921 ? I dont seem to have any hardware issues but does that mean there is a part that will probably fail. I have had one die already. Does the one I got back in Feb need to be sent back for h/w upgrade ?
Mark Lamutt
05-04-04, 01:20 PM
There's "2" versions of the 921. The original ones, and the ones made over the last month or so that have a specific hardware fix installed.
BUT, if you have one of the original 921s, and are NOT now having video problems with it (and they are not subtle - if you see large multiple blue streaks in your picture, you have the problem) you won't have problems with it, and there's no reason to try to exchange it. The hardware problem didn't affect all 921s made - I have one of the first ones, and mine is fine. The hardware problem that was fixed is NOT one that will fail over time - the 921 either has it or doesn't have it.
There is another blue line problem that is NOT hardware related - it is a single, very thin blue (or red or green) line that appears in the picture. This one is caused by a bug in the software that will get fixed.
FarNorth
05-05-04, 12:30 AM
The thin, intermittent blue line is the one I saw a bit of in my first unit and only a couple of times in my replacement. I swear I _heard_ that there was a hardware problem with the chipset and all the early units would eventually fail but perhaps not.
Mark Lamutt
05-05-04, 07:26 AM
The thin intermittent blue line originally was thought to be a harware problem, but was tracked back to a bug in the software about 3 weeks ago or so.
ggw2000
05-05-04, 08:53 AM
The thin intermittent blue line originally was thought to be a harware problem, but was tracked back to a bug in the software about 3 weeks ago or so.
This problem showed up again last night. About 4 times now since the middle of february. Did my famed smartcard reboot (in another thread) and the problem cleared up again :) . Will be glad when S/W update fixes it tho...
Gerry
After reading through this thread, I'm left in a bit of a fog. Is there an FAQ somewhere specific to the 921? I am considering upgrading to the 921 from my current Dish PVR.
So according to a couple dealers, (Dish Depot & a Local dealer) I had been lead to believe that the 921 has "just" now been taken off production hold. And that production hold was to remedy numerous problems from the initial release. But after reading this thread it appears the production hold, if any was a couple months ago. And more disappointing, it appears it was to only fix one problem; blue lines.
So does anyone know what is the latest on the currently shipping 921's?
What problems have been rectified?
What problems remain?
Thanks in advance for any info...
And more disappointing, it appears it was to only fix one problem; blue lines.
The quality hold DID NOT fix the blue lines problem. I just got a brand new 921 a little over 2 weeks ago and the blue line problem still exists on a lot of SD recorded material.
Mark Lamutt
06-13-04, 09:24 AM
2 different blue line problems - one hardware based that was fixed, and one software based that isn't yet fixed. Brew, for a list of the other still outstanding issues, please read - you'll find them all here in this forum.
2 different blue line problems - one hardware based that was fixed, and one software based that isn't yet fixed. Brew, for a list of the other still outstanding issues, please read - you'll find them all here in this forum.
Mark, thanks for the reply,
So then the production hold only fixed one type of blue lines, and there is still another set of blue lines? I know that this threads & others list a multitude of problems reported by some users, the problem is the timeline. Are all these problems still a problem in the currently shipping 921? While some problems are experienced by some users, others seem to not have that specific problem. Is that just luck, or do they have a newer unit, or do they not use that feature, etc??
It would be great to see a posting listing all the problems, and the current status of each.
SimpleSimon
06-13-04, 10:57 AM
Mark, thanks for the reply,
So then the production hold only fixed one type of blue lines, and there is still another set of blue lines? I know that this threads & others list a multitude of problems reported by some users, the problem is the timeline. Are all these problems still a problem in the currently shipping 921? While some problems are experienced by some users, others seem to not have that specific problem. Is that just luck, or do they have a newer unit, or do they not use that feature, etc??
It would be great to see a posting listing all the problems, and the current status of each.
There are only 2 issues that I know of that are (could be) hardware: blue line problem type #1, and OTA tuner issues. That last is my opinion that the OTA hardware is crap, but it could just be the software.
As to the other issues appearing or not on a given sure does seem to be luck, along with feature use. For example, I do not use OTA at all.
jandras
06-13-04, 11:44 AM
>>What's an FPGA? I assume an ASIC is a monster A/D chip or chipset?
I'm not jsanders, but I'm jandras, so I'm close.
An FPGA is a "Field Programmable Gate Array." Basically, it's a generic logic chip that can be programmed ("burned") in a special machine in order to implement the designer's desired logic. FPGA's are expensive per unit, but the logic can be easily and cheaply changed. It's used during development when things are changing, or permanently, when there isn't enough volume to recapture the cost of producing a completely custom chip.
An ASIC is an "Application Specific Integrated Circuit." It's used when everything is completely set in stone design-wise, and when there's enough volume to justify the expense of creating the masks and manufacturing the ASIC.
Mark Lamutt
06-13-04, 10:55 PM
Brew, the hardware blue line problem has been fixed, and won't show up in any 921 shipping today. It consisted of multiple vertical blue bands on the screen via DVI output (and maybe component out, but I never saw that) when watching HD material.
The software "blue" line problem is a single narrow line that can be just about any color in or near the center of the picture that only shows up when watching SD material.
As for providing a current list of the bugs, the messages here are about as good as it's going to get. I do have my own personal tracking list, but it's not fit for public viewing due to NDA concerns as I have information in my list that is confidential.
vBulletin® v3.7.6, Copyright ©2000-2012, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.