FROM MARK: A couple of Timer Failure Workarounds

[Mark Lamutt]

I'm going to start this thread here to give you some clues how avoid timer failures, until the software is fixed.

Thanks to Cheezmo for pointing out these timer bugs this weekend.

If you have 2 timers set to record, one of them on a satellite channel and one of them on an OTA channel, and the satellite channel timer fires first, if the 921 is tuned to another satellite channel when the OTA timer is set to fire, the OTA timer WILL NOT fire. If the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel when the 2nd timer is about to fire, the OTA timer WILL fire.

If you have 2 satellite timers set to record, with the timer #2 set to fire after timer #1 has already fired, if the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel, timer #2 WILL NOT fire. If the 921 is tuned to another satellite channel, timer #2 WILL fire.

[Cheezmo]

And the workaround is...

Turn it off when you aren't watching it.

And be aware of what is going to happen if the timer icon starts flashing so you can "get out of its way" if necessary.

[Mark Lamutt]

I'm not sure that turning it off is going to make any difference or not. I am sure that in the first case, you have to make sure the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel for the OTA timer to fire. And in the second case, you have to make sure the 921 is tuned to a satellite channel for the 2nd satellite timer to fire.

[David_Levin]

If turning it off doesn't help, would it be better to leave it with a paused PTV event?

[Mark Lamutt]

I don't know. Currently, the pattern seems to be whether the 921 is tuned to a sat channel or an OTA channel before the 2nd timer fires - that's the determining factor I think.

[guruka]

<snip>If you have 2 timers set to record, one of them on a satellite channel and one of them on an OTA channel, and the satellite channel timer fires first, if the 921 is tuned to another satellite channel when the OTA timer is set to fire, the OTA timer WILL NOT fire. If the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel when the 2nd timer is about to fire, the OTA timer WILL fire.

If you have 2 satellite timers set to record, with the timer #2 set to fire after timer #1 has already fired, if the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel, timer #2 WILL NOT fire. If the 921 is tuned to another satellite channel, timer #2 WILL fire.

Yes. My observations support this as well. Thanks for the concise presentation of it. I really hope they get this one fixed quickly. It requires a lot of attention to get consistantly successful recordings.

......G

[DonLandis]

"you have to make sure the 921 is tuned to an OTA channel for the OTA timer to fire.

I have not had any problems with timers firing when the 921 is in standby mode for OTA timer regardless of whether it is tuned to the intended OTA channel or sat channel. I have had it fail when I have left the 921 set to some other OTA channel and then put the 921 in standby mode. When I was at NAB for the week, all timers fired and recorded fine, the 921 was in standby mode and left on HBOHD channel. I had all timers with 0 pad and many were adjacent times such as 8-9PM, 9-10pm on 013-1(My NBC channel) while I had a timer set for 9-11PM on HBOHD(sat).

Since this is a workaround info thread let me add something I also mentioned in another thread. To get reliable results with OTA channels, I do not allow adjacent timers to even come close to overlap when the two channel timer events are different. I don't worry about it if the same- e.g.:
8-9 and 9-10 but the same channel, I have had excellent results.
8-9 and 9-10 but two different OTA channels I get some failures so I have modified the settings as follows:
8:00-9:00 channel A, 9:01 - 10:00 channel B
In all cases set the pads to 0.
For different adjacent channel timers the second setup with a minute difference, I believe, avoids any possible system design conflict of trying to tune two different OTA channels at the same time. It has worked 100% for me.

Recall- back in January, recommendations in this forum were to always set pad times to 0, always leave the 921 set for sat channel before going to standby(power button off) even if only recording an OTA channel by timer, and always set the OTA timer manually. I've been following these guidelines pretty close.

[Mark Lamutt]

My testing was done leaving the 921 on during the entire process, not putting it into standby. I haven't done that testing yet, and won't be able to get to until at least Saturday.

[4HiMarks]

This isn' exactly a timer failure workaround, but it is definitely timer-related. And it could lead to a workaround.

Sunday I watched the NASCAR race on FOX OTA. When it ended, I went and made dinner, leaving the TV and 921 on and tuned to FOX. By the time I got back, my timer for Alias on ABC OTA had fired. It changed the channel and the timer fired, but I wasn't able to tune away to check out 10.5 on the NBC sat feed. I kept getting the "This can only be carried out in live mode" message. I think it is because it had been tuned to an OTA channel and grabbed that for the timer and wouldn't let go.

So, I propose that if you have an OTA timer scheduled, and you want to watch a sat channel during that time, tune to it (or any sat channel) before the timer fires.

-Chris

[cyphire]

Hi all - I am new to this board, but have had the 921 since the first units shipped.

I am a serious computer programmer & problem solver. That being said, I can't imagine a 'civilian' happily owning this unit. I have read the recent posts and understand the timer problems. I have them myself. At what point does Dish fix the most glaring of interface issues? If one of my programmers brought out this system with these problems he/she would be canned! I've missed shows, I've missed important events, and I just can't trust it to record. The timer selection (unlike Tivo) is substandard and filled with silly programming problems. This is not supposed to be a beta unit, but there are things which are just too brutal to put up with.

I recently sent an e-mail to Dish and here is the reply and content. Note these are only some of the many problems, just the ones I am fixated on right now.



Dear Mr. xxxxxx,

Thank you for your email correspondence. At this time, we do not have any information on the release date for the software to fix these issues. I apologize for any inconvenience this has caused you.

Sincerely,

Tom H.

Technical Support

Dish Network

********** Original Message **********



Full Name: xxxxxxxxxxx

Account Number: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Question: When will the software be fixed / cleaned up on the 921? I have
had the unit since inception (Jan), and love it, but it is deeply flawed:
- Does not show the name of the program you actually recorded (It shows
multiple shows including 0 minutes of the show before it - this is the one
it displays.)
- Does NOT record when you press the Record button - new and often
problem. It brings up the Record rest of show, etc but pressing the enter
key does NOT let it happen. Have to do a manual record by the timers.
- Does not show the current time or time of shows in the appropriate
screens. Really poor interface.
- Says that you must cancel the recording of another show when you are
trying to switch channels. But you can stop the recording, move to the
other channel, then set up by going into timer and creating a future event
(a minute later) and it works... Terrible to have to kludge and figure out
a way of getting somewhere - as a programmer.
- Off air programming is just bad. Bring the guide in from the national
channels. Even if it is wrong sometimes it's better than what you have -
NOTHING. Falling back on the excuse that it is ready to conform to a
standard, but the networks need to feed you data is silly. If you are
going to release a leading edge machine, remove the flaws. I have told
all my friends to stay away from this system in droves... With the proper
software fixes, i would recommend it whole heartedly. Tivo blows away
this system, but they are a much worse company to deal with, they don't
have a good integration with the Dish in HDTV... But if they get their act
together they will crush you... Please, Please, make this a priority or
you will be like IBM was with OS/2!!!

p.s. I haven't addressed all the problems just the glaring ones which

should NOT STILL BE THERE 6 MONTHS LATER!!!

[SimpleSimon]

Welcome aboard fellow computer jockey! You are far from alone with your comments, thoughts, and feelings about the 921.

You're absolutely right - if anyone that worked for me (or if I did it) rolled this garbage out, it would be instant termination. Of course, the programmers might've said "We're ready to alpha test this thing, and maybe in 3 months, beta test it" while the jerks that run Dish said "Ship it!". I've seen that happen before, too.

Anyway, read the threads here and at satelliteguys.us for say, up to the last 3 months - if you have enough time. You'll learn a helluva lot about the box and how to deal with it, and maybe you can contribute your experience to us, too.

[cyphire]

Thank you for your kind words Simon....

I am in the middle of buying a house and selling a house, but I will try to get to this forum from time to time. (Will also edit my taglines, etc!). I will look through all the posts, hopefully Dish has commited the resources to getting the job done!

Will report back soon!

___________________
Brian (Cyphire - From San Diego) - Computer and all around Geek Guy
(HAVE BEEN EVERQUEST/HALO FREE FOR 93 Days!!!)

[Mark Lamutt]

The resources are there. This thread is not meant for discussion, so closing. All discussion should be posted in the DVR forum, not here. Please read (or re-read) the posting rules of this forum.