Bug Report L180: Picture 'Artifacting' Return

[Interprises]

We have been artifact free since L145, when we received a replacement unit from Dish. Now, with the introduction of L180, we are seeing occasional vertical center screen artifacts, which vary in size from top to bottom. This is not on all channels, and the problem seems to occur on highly saturated content. Again, the problem was not there, until L180 rebooted.

We were not expecting L180 to re-introduce problems. Please spool an emergency release to fix this issue, as picture quality should be a priority. Thanks.

Note: This occurs both with Live and DVR content.

[Mark Lamutt]

Interprises, you're going to have to provide more detail than that. What does a vertical cenver screen artifact look like? Can you provide a picture of what you're seeing? What channels? HD and SD channels? OTA channels? Define highly saturated content, please - do you mean primary colors, high white balance areas, high black level areas?

[Interprises]

Happy to provide more info, Mark, but I didn't want to waste your time or mine posting extraneous stuff. Thanks for giving me some instruction. This problem has actually been previously documented on the site, and I'll look for those threads. I can also take pictures, if needed.

So far, I've only seen the problem on SD channels, and the artifacts look like a string of "square beads" (pixels) stretching downward, usually 3 to six inches in total length, beginning from about 4 inches from top of the screen. My screen is about 50 inches.

The artifact appears to be in the red and blue spectrum; more red than blue. After watching this occur for a while now, it doesn't seem to be related, specifically, to saturation. Although I've yet to see it on solid backgrounds, as you might see during a commercial.

[Mark Lamutt]

Are you viewing the SD channels via component, DVI, svideo, composite or RF coax? Do you see the artifacting on any of the other outputs than you are currently seeing it on? Does it happen on most/all SD channels, or just particular ones? If it happens on both live and DVR content, when you see it live, and you rewind, does it happen again in exactly the same place at the same time as you saw it live?

[Interprises]

Are you viewing the SD channels via component, DVI, svideo, composite or RF coax?1080i Component

Do you see the artifacting on any of the other outputs than you are currently seeing it on?No. In other words, OTA seems to be just fine. I can't check other physical outputs, because the unit is built-it. But, this started occurring immediately after L180 rebooted.

DVD looks fine.


Does it happen on most/all SD channels, or just particular ones?Most.

If it happens on both live and DVR content, when you see it live, and you rewind, does it happen again in exactly the same place at the same time as you saw it live?Yes, and it's much more subtle with Live content, but the artifact is in the same place.

[Mark Lamutt]

That looks like an upconversion artifact to me. A minor artifacting spot in the 480i transmission that is made much worse by the upconversion to 1080i. Are you sure that you weren't seeing that in L146-L149? I'll pass this along, but I'm not sure how the software would be causing this.

[Interprises]

That looks like an upconversion artifact to me. A minor artifacting spot in the 480i transmission that is made much worse by the upconversion to 1080i. Are you sure that you weren't seeing that in L146-L149? I'll pass this along, but I'm not sure how the software would be causing this.Yes, I am sure, Mark. That happened when I was connected to the 480 inputs, as well. I had the inputs changed, a while back, when I found out the installers had originally used the 480 component inputs, but that was some time ago. I have not seen this with the 1080i connection, until L180 rebooted.

[Interprises]

Ok, here's another one; see Blair's right cheek. This is something that is not easily missed, Mark. In fact, it didn't seem necessary to mention this, but perhaps it's supportive -- I've had others ask me what this is, and I haven't heard these comments, regarding the replacement unit's picture, since L180. Now I'm in [explain mode], again...

The pixilation is always in that center-line position, from top to bottom.

[Mark Lamutt]

I've been asked to find out when you got your replacement 921, Interprises.

[Interprises]

I've been asked to find out when you got your replacement 921, Interprises.Mark, I'm going to need to think about that. At first I thought it was March 2nd, but that's not the date. I don't have any records from that transaction, since they paid for shipping. It was second or third week of March.

Wait, I think I made a copy of the UPS confirmation.

[Interprises]

Nope, that was another shipment. Best I can guess is 2nd or 3rd week in March.

[Mark Lamutt]

It definitely was not in the last 2 weeks then? That's the reason for the question.

[Interprises]

It definitely was not in the last 2 weeks then? That's the reason for the question.Definitely not.

[ggw2000]

Ok, here's another one; see Blair's right cheek. This is something that is not easily missed, Mark. In fact, it didn't seem necessary to mention this, but perhaps it's supportive -- I've had others ask me what this is, and I haven't heard these comments, regarding the replacement unit's picture, since L180. Now I'm in [explain mode], again...

The pixilation is always in that center-line position, from top to bottom.

Interprises, this is the exact problem I have that comes and goes. Only on SD using component. Does not show up on HD. I have had this come and go about 3 times in the past two months. Usually a "smartcard" reboot clears the problem up. I have not seen it yet with L180 but then of course it's only been a couple of days... I was waiting a while until things stabilize to call Dish if it gets prevalent.. Gerry

[Interprises]

Thanks, Gerry, that would be great if a smartcard reboot fixed the problem. Someone please give me directions on how to perform a SC reboot.

Thanks in advance!

[ggw2000]

Thanks, Gerry, that would be great if a smartcard reboot fixed the problem. Someone please give me directions on how to perform a SC reboot.

Thanks in advance!

With the unit on and watching TV, slid the little door on the bottom front of the unit open. This will reveal the SC. Pull the SC out. The screen will come up with an error and then go to the sys info screen (i think). Put the SC back in and the unit will reboot (you know the normal 5-6 minutes). Try that and please post as to whether it clears up the problem or not.. Gerry

[Interprises]

Gerry, I do believe that solved the problem. No more artifacting, so far. Will keep the group posted with any developments.

That's one of the great things about DBSTalk -- the two heads are better than one paradigm is in play.

Thanks for your suggestion and help with the SC reboot.

[Mark Lamutt]

Interprises, I'm glad the problem has apparently gone away, at least temporarily. I've been talking this morning with the Dish engineering group here in Denver about your problem, and they tell me that it's caused by the same hardware problem that causes the "thin blue line" problem, and that you should RA it for replacement. The 921s coming off the line in the last 2 weeks are fixed, and won't have this problem.

I'm waiting to hear back if there's someone special you should contact to get this done. But, you may not want to follow up on that now that it seems to have gone away. You're call - and I'll let you know who to contact for the RA route.

[Interprises]

They will need to do what they did last time, and send me a replacement unit, first. I'm seriously thinking about just asking them for a full refund, if they expect me to be without the unit. I'm still amazed that this product hit the street.

Anyway, thanks for your help, Mark, and let me know who I need to talk to get a unit headed my way.

Oddly enough, the SC reboot solved the problem. I'm tempted to see if this is a long term fix. I'm also a bit suspicious of their desire to get a unit back, which actually has the Firewire hardware, intact.

Thanks, again.

[ggw2000]

Interprises, I'm glad the problem has apparently gone away, at least temporarily. I've been talking this morning with the Dish engineering group here in Denver about your problem, and they tell me that it's caused by the same hardware problem that causes the "thin blue line" problem, and that you should RA it for replacement. The 921s coming off the line in the last 2 weeks are fixed, and won't have this problem.

I'm waiting to hear back if there's someone special you should contact to get this done. But, you may not want to follow up on that now that it seems to have gone away. You're call - and I'll let you know who to contact for the RA route.

Mark, as I posted in the other thread "blue line problem", I was going to wait until I knew that they fixed this problem and then I was going to call. Going thru normal CSRs probably is going to be a pain in the *. If you can come up with a contact it would be great. I will NOT send this unit back without a replacement in my hands first tho... Gerry

[Interprises]

Just FYI -- didn't mention this -- after the L180 spool, I performed an on/off switch reboot. I've never done a Smart Card reboot, though, since I've had the unit. That did make a difference.

Granted, you're still looking at an image, that is obviously the product of compression, and you can even vaguely see typical MPEG artifacting, where the "thin line" problem previously occurred, but the discoloration (red/blue/whatever) is just not there.

[rrg]

Mark, I'm not entirely clear on one thing: I already sent in my 921 some time ago for the "blue line" hardware fix. Is the problem described herein something separate, for which another hardware fix is required? And if so, will Echostar perform it for me (and for other 921 users) at no charge?

[Mark Lamutt]

The "thin blue line" problem and this problem are apparently the same, and require a different fix than the "multiple blue line" problem that we saw originally. And, Dish isn't fixing the "thin blue line" problem and sending it back to you. They are replacing them, currently with new 921s the last I heard (although that may change down the road). You may get hit with a shipping charge.

[Mark Lamutt]

Interprises - if and when you want to RA your 921 for a fixed one, send me your complete contact info, and I'll pass it along to the correct department at Dish for contact.

[Interprises]

Interprises - if and when you want to RA your 921 for a fixed one, send me your complete contact info, and I'll pass it along to the correct department at Dish for contact.Thanks, Mark, I appreciate it. I haven't seen an artifact since doing the SC reboot. I can see where rebooting, on occasion, may be necessary. I mean, it is a computer. :)

Will see how things go, and take advantage of the RA if needed.

[jcd4878]

Damn, and I thought my unit was hardware bug free!

I saw this same artifact just appear after L180 spooled. Never saw it before. It was very clearly visable when watching the Simpsons last sunday night.

I was watching a OTA digital timeshifted broadcast of FOX. Saw the vertical lines in several spots just like the pictures posted here. I am using 720p out the 921 using the DVI connector. Is this the same hardware issue, or did I see a screw up in my local FOX stations uplink?

I haven't seen the problem since, but have not really watched alot of TV since Sunday night so I haven't been really looking for it.

[srrobinson2]

Interprises, this is the exact problem I have that comes and goes. Only on SD using component. Does not show up on HD. I have had this come and go about 3 times in the past two months. Usually a "smartcard" reboot clears the problem up. I have not seen it yet with L180 but then of course it's only been a couple of days... I was waiting a while until things stabilize to call Dish if it gets prevalent.. Gerry

I had this exact problem too (I posted pictures and details on the Blue Line thread). In fact, I had the blue line problem, got a replacement, now I see green and red lines (exactly as you describe and depict with your pictures.)

The only appear in SD content viewed via component connection. And, since the 180 download occurred, I have not noticed them, so it may have gone away, but I want to watch for a coupld of weeks before drawing that conclusion. Mark, my replacement occurred in February some time.

[Mark Lamutt]

The same offer goes for everyone else here as well - send me your complete contact info (name, address, phone number) and I'll get it to the right people at Dish who will call you back to set up the RA. Should be a little easier than wading through the CSR roulette system.

[ggw2000]

The same offer goes for everyone else here as well - send me your complete contact info (name, address, phone number) and I'll get it to the right people at Dish who will call you back to set up the RA. Should be a little easier than wading through the CSR roulette system.

Mark, thanks for info. Will keep track of this as I'm sure interprises will also ;) . Gerry

[John Quaglino]

Just a note. I have not noticed the artifacting in a couple of days. To be sure, I did the smartcard reboot. I had not done a reboot since 180 was downloaded.

[ggw2000]

Interprises, have you had any "vertical" line problems since the SC reboot. I am assuming that everything is hunky dorey since there have been no posts here in a few days now.. gerry

[Eagles]

I've been talking this morning with the Dish engineering group here in Denver about your problem, and they tell me that it's caused by the same hardware problem that causes the "thin blue line" problem, and that you should RA it for replacement. The 921s coming off the line in the last 2 weeks are fixed, and won't have this problem.



Mark,
This was the same conversation I had with Dish manager named Glenn Harvey. I got the impression he was pretty high on the management/921 tech food chain. I also got the impression he was well informed and familiar with the 921. As a result of our conversation, my 1st replacement 921 was RA'd for the unit I just received on Friday, 04/16/04. (My third unit). He said the unit I'll be receiving will alleviate this problem. Well last night, the thin blue line reappeared. I was watching SD programming via component @ 1080i. Went to 480p and it still happened. Took some screen-shots but, they are the same as the other thin blue vertical line screen-shots on this fourm. I'm going to send a couple of screen-shots to the e-mail address which you referenced in the thin blue line thread. I was hoping you might pass this info on to Dish and find out what's going on with this. Just to be clear, this was one of those new hardware refitted units according to Glenn Harvey. Like I said I am going to contact Dish on this for some answers, but I was hoping you could find something out and pass it along. Based on past history, I'll probably hear from you before Dish responds. As a side note, this thin blue line always seems to appear while watching FOXNEWS. I noticed one of the other thin blue line screen-shot displays was also FOXNEWS. Please let me know if you find out anything new. Thanks Again!
!pride

[Mark Lamutt]

Eagles,

Please email me (markdl@dbstalk.com) your contact information (name, address, phone #), the message you posted above, and the date that you talked to Glen and the date you received your most recent 921. They are going to want to track this closely.

[Steven Miller]

Thanks, Mark, I appreciate it. I haven't seen an artifact since doing the SC reboot. I can see where rebooting, on occasion, may be necessary. I mean, it is a computer. :)

Will see how things go, and take advantage of the RA if needed.

I've had this vertical blueish/redish artifact problem come and go 2-3 times over the last 3 months and I now think that rebooting resolves it for some period of time and then it eventually shows up again.

It just happend today and I did a power-plug reboot (not an SC card reboot) and it's now gone. It's almost like the hardware gets in a funny state and needs to be reset.

- Steven

[srrobinson2]

I've had this vertical blueish/redish artifact problem come and go 2-3 times over the last 3 months and I now think that rebooting resolves it for some period of time and then it eventually shows up again.

It just happend today and I did a power-plug reboot (not an SC card reboot) and it's now gone. It's almost like the hardware gets in a funny state and needs to be reset.

- Steven

According to Dish, this is actually a software problem and will be corrected with a future release. Here is the quote from the advanced support CSR:

"I have come to understand, since our last communication, that this issue is to be corrected through a future software release. Therefore, an exchange of your receiver would not be any help. I don't have a date for the release of the fix, but once it is available I will be in touch with you to verify that it has resolved your problem. "

[the_tx_dude]

According to Dish, this is actually a software problem and will be corrected with a future release. Here is the quote from the advanced support CSR:

"I have come to understand, since our last communication, that this issue is to be corrected through a future software release. Therefore, an exchange of your receiver would not be any help. I don't have a date for the release of the fix, but once it is available I will be in touch with you to verify that it has resolved your problem. "

What are the odds that 1. it will get fixed and/or 2. the CSR will be in touch with you?

[srrobinson2]

What are the odds that 1. it will get fixed and/or 2. the CSR will be in touch with you?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I've learned not to hold my breath. ;)

[BobMurdoch]

OK, this problem has now started hitting me in the last two-three weeks. I thought it was software related, but I had escaped having to send my unit back for repair up to this point. Mine was sold to me by Richard King back in January. I'll try the smart card reboot as a short term fix until all of the season finales are over and then I'll arrange for an RA sometime in June.....