TIVO

Will Tivo, or similar product, allow you to record one channel from a dish, while viewing another? I realize there is a $10 monthly fee for Tivo service. What does this service provide and what are Tivo's functions if you don't subscribe to their service?

[John Corn]

Hi Ken, Welcome to DBSTalk :hi:

It will allow you to view one channel while you record another.
You have to pay the monthly $10.00 fee or a lifetime for $250.00 in order to use TiVo.

There's a fee because TiVo uses subscription revenue model. They don't make the box, they make the software that enables the PVR funcionality.

Also just because "I own the box" doesn't mean that you own a "licence to the software inside it.". That's akin to saying that just because you own a computer, you own the software on the hard drive. Unless you've paid for the license for that software, you don't own it! TiVo is granting you that license in return for a monthly fee.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, good or bad, it's just the way it is.


The Tivo units do work without paying a subscribtion, they are just have limited features, the monthly service allows you to set up season passes and wishlists that other PVR's do not have. If you want minimal features like other PVR's than just don't subscribe. The whole reason to pay the extra money is for those features you can't get elsewhere, it doesn't just record a channel at a time specified it adjusts for special episodes and so on. The features you get for the money are quite extensive.

[timf]

If you're referring to the DirecTV combo box (and I'm assuming you are since this is a DBS site), then without the TiVo service all you can do is manipulate live TV (pause for up to 30 minutes, instant replay, etc.). In order to do any sort of recording, you need to pay for the TiVo service.

[John Corn]

duh.....nice catch Tim, guess I didn't mention you couldn't record.
Thanks
By the way Welcome to DBSTalk. :)

Thanks, John and Tinf, for your replies. If all I really want to do is record, and be able to record one show while watching another, are other PVRs that I can get with the SAT service sufficient?

[scooper]

Dish 501 is exactly that - a satellite receiver with a Hard disk recording ability that is programmed exactly like a VCR - except you can select your programs via the EPG and not strictly by channel/starttime/endtime .

[Kenster]

Thanks Scooper. Which service offers the Dish 501 and do you know the extra costs involved, startup costs and any extra monthly fees?

[Scott Greczkowski]

The 501 is only available from Dish Network.

Does the PVR501 allow you to record one channel while watching another? I didn't think it had two tuners.

Greg Bimson

[Scott Greczkowski]

No the 501 will only allow you to watch a recording while recording another, the 721 is needed to watch one channel while recording another.

[EricG]

Scott forgot to mention that the 721 is a yet to be released product. DirecTiVos are available now.

[lee635]

When is the 721 due out and did tehy announce any 721 deals for new or current subs at the team summit????

[EdF]

In addition to two 7200 Dishplayers, we have an original S/A Tivo dedicated to a 3700. The Tivo service was cancelled when the monthly rate was increased several months ago. Although we no longer get daily listings, the Tivo works just fine without daily listings. Using it is just a matter of setting up manual timers (repeating ones for "season passes"). The Tivo has not called in for over two months now and still works great - it even made the daylight savings time change on its own!

We have it set up for Letterman M-F, an hour of the Simpsons on Fox-Philly each day, The Shield on FX, Mad TV, and several other repeating programs. We would have cancelled Tivo service long ago if we had known how well it works without the service. If you do cancel service, just be sure to UNPLUG the phone line before calling to cancel so they can't "ZAP" your Tivo on the next call-in!

[Kenster]

I'm now confused a little bit. Scooper says the Dish 501 works just like a VCR, which I take to mean you can record one channel while watching another channel. Then Scot says the 501 only lets you watch one recording while you're recording something else at the same time. So, can the 501 record one channel while you are viewing another channel?

[Scott Greczkowski]

No it's cant record one channel while watching another channel.

Again you can watch a show from the PVR while recording something else.

The 501 is only a single tuner receiver, in order to watch 1 show while watching another channel is with a dual tuner receiver.

Dish Network has the 721 coming out in late May which can do this.

DirecTV has the DirecTivo and Ultimate TV both are available now and seem to be loved by their owners.

Hope this helps.

[Tony S]

Kenster,

With the 501, you can watch a show that you have previously recorded, while recording something else (at the same time). This is something that you can not do with a VCR.

What Scott meant (I think) when he said that the 501s work just like a VCR, was that the way you set up timers to record is similar to a VCR (except you can use the EPG to select the show to record).

Kenster:

What you are thinking of as "VCR-like" is actually a characteristic of Cable TV (and Antenna).

Satellite requires a "tuner" for each channel being viewed. Almost all satellite receivers, whether they have a PVR inside or not, only have one "tuner", so they can only be used on one channel at a time.

The two satellite providers have the following products that have two tuners instead of one:

DirecTV - DirecTiVo; UltimateTV

Dish Network - DishPVR 721 (in final testing, due soon)

However, there are certain advantages to having two separate satellite PVR receivers, rather than one with two tuners.

If you have several family members, note that only one program at a time can be VIEWED on a two-tuner receiver. This is because they only have one set of outputs. If someone is using it to watch a live program, then you can't also watch a recorded program on its hard disk.

If instead you have two single-tuner PVRs, then two different programs can be watched by two different family members at the same time.

Also, note that with a single-tuner PVR, you CAN watch a RECORDED program while another program is currently recording. And, frankly, when you have PVRs, you will find that you don't watch anything live any more, because if you watch the recording (even 15 minutes later) - you can fast forward through all the commercials.

I have two 501s and I find that having two separate boxes that can show two different programs to two different people is invaluable. For example, my son comes home from school, finishes his homework, and then wants to see some cartoon show (that he has seen 20 times before). Since I have two 501s, he can watch his program, while my wife and I watch the news (or listen to one of the music channels) in another room. This is not possible with just one of the two-tuner models.

PS I also own a standalone TiVo. I use this mainly for its WishList automated search, which of course, does not work without the listings subscription. If - as mentioned above - you don't subscribe to the TiVo service, you don't have any of TiVo's unique features, so I don't see the point of using an unsubscribed TiVo with satellite.

[AllieVi]

Originally posted by kstuart
Kenster:

However, there are certain advantages to having two separate satellite PVR receivers, rather than one with two tuners.

I don't yet have a PVR, but expect to one day. Thank you for pointing out this limitation of the dual-tuner model to those of us who haven't fully thought about the issue.

[Curtis0620]

Originally posted by AllieVi


I don't yet have a PVR, but expect to one day. Thank you for pointing out this limitation of the dual-tuner model to those of us who haven't fully thought about the issue.

Even better is to have two 2-tuner PVRs.

Being able to record something will you watch live TV is invaluable.

[spanishannouncetable]

Originally posted by Curtis0620


Even better is to have two 2-tuner PVRs.

Being able to record something will you watch live TV is invaluable.

"Watch live TV" ? How quaint :D (check sig)

[Kenster]

Okay, the clouds are lifting, (I think), thanks to all of you. Let me tell you what I want to do and you tell me how YOU would do it.

TV #1 down stairs den: Main TV for wife and I. (kids are gone.) I want to be able to record one show while watching another "live" show. Being able to record while watching another recording would be a bonus but not really needed since it has never been possible with a VCR.

TV# 2 upstairs game room: purely auxillary but sometimes I watch it while working on computer. More rarely, wife and I might want to watch two different shows at same time. This TV also has a VCR. Sometimes we run both recorders at same time to tape two different shows for later viewing. I'm thinking separate receiver for upstairs and keeping VCR, though if I can get a free or cheap receiver/PVR combo that would be fine.

I would like to keep this as cheap as possible, so upgrade costs might get vetoed by my bride. I would also like to avoid extra monthly fees, since the extra receiver will cost about $5 a month and another $5 for local channels.
So, how would you guys fix me up?

[Tony S]

Originally posted by Kenster
Being able to record while watching another recording would be a bonus but not really needed since it has never been possible with a VCR.
I can almost guarantee that you will change your mind about this. A PVR totally changes the way that most people watch TV. Once you have owned a PVR for a while you will find out how wonderful it is to be able to skip by the commercials while viewing a recorded show (the 501 has a "skip" button that instantly skips ahead 30 secs every time you press it). After a while you will realize that it is better to always record everything that you want to watch (because you can skip by the commercials) and you will find yourself watching less and less live TV. (So recording one show while watching a recording is what you will probably end up doing most of the time).

I know that this may seem a liitle strange right now, but once you have used the PVR for a while you will probably agree.

[Kenster]

I forgot one other situation. I finally convinced my dad-in-law to go to DBS because he lives about 60 miles from Houston and always got lousy reception. He loves the clear reception now but was quite upset to find that he can't watch one program while recording another. He has DishTV. Since it is a new installation, do you think the dealer would take back his receiver and trade it for a PVR? Of course, that would make his brand new VCR useless. He only has one TV so does not need two receivers. What would be the easiest, cheapest way to fix him up? He has terminal cancer and can do little but watch TV.

[Karl Foster]

Don't forget that with dual tuners, you can record two shows at once, while watching a third previously recorded show. This is a great benefit of D*Tivo, and UTV because during a situation like last night, with Friends and Survivor on at the same time, you can record both and watch them at your convenience while watching your local news you recorded earlier. Go for the dual-tuners if given a choice.

[Ryan]

The ability to tune in two different shows at the same time (eg to watch one live and record another for later viewing) requires two tuners. They can either be two separate receivers, or a single receiver that has two tuners. I think only the DirecTV compatiable DirecTivo and UltimateTV units have two tuner in on receiver.

To watch two different programs at the same time will require two receivers.

There are plenty of solutions to allow live viewing of one program while recording another. A two tuner PVR-capable receiver, two PVR capable receivers, a PVR-capable receiver plus a standard receiver, two standard receivers plus a stand-alone PVR/VCR.

Currently, if Dish Network is your provider of choice, you will need two receivers of some sort to allow simultaneous tuning of two different programs. There's no way around it.


Kenster, for your specific situation, I would probably start with this as a minimum: Get one PVR (provider of your choice) plus one extra receiver (if this was a PVR that would be great, but it doesn't have to be). Locate both downstairs along with the VCR for archiving important programs.

Then figure out a way to route the output of one or both of the receivers to the upstairs location. If you currently have cable, you may be able to use that existing cable to send the coax output (channel 3/4) to the upstairs TV. Or you can get a wireless 'video sender' to send the signal upstairs.

This setup will allow you to watch one program live while recording another, watch a previously recorded program while recording a new program, watch one program live in one room while watching either a live or recorded program in the other room. You'll be able to record two programs at once by utilizing the PVR and the VCR, plus watch a previously recorded program on the PVR.

Personally I think the best solution is two DirecTivo units. This costs $15 per month ($10 Tivo fee plus $5 extra receiver) but gives you a great deal of flexability with four tuners altogether. But I think you can do it for $10 less with Dish Network if they offer the PVR functions at no charge. You'll just end up with two tuners, rather than four.

I also believe that Tivo is more sophisticated and stable than the Dish Network offerings but that is purely based on the opinions of others as I haven't used Dish Network PVR products.

I think the biggest step will be getting into a 'PVR state of mind.' After a week or so of use I think the true capability of the PVR will begin to clarify for you. You'll begin to watch most, perhaps all programming recorded. Even if it was just a half hour ago. You let the PVR do all the juggling, and you watch what you want, when you want, with ease. You should probably get to a point where the VCR becomes a vehicle for archiving or playing rentals only. You should not need to much temporary recording on the VCR once you get the hang of the PVR capabilities.

Good luck, and let us know how it goes!

[Kenster]

Ryan, do you have to have two discs if you have two receivers? I'm thinking no, but not sure. How many receivers can you hook up to one disc, in case I wanted to go with two duals?

[Curtis0620]

Originally posted by Kenster
Ryan, do you have to have two discs if you have two receivers? I'm thinking no, but not sure. How many receivers can you hook up to one disc, in case I wanted to go with two duals?

With the correct multiswitch, you can have up to 8 connections to a single dual lnb dish.

[Ryan]

I'm guessing you mean dish? A single dish can feed virtually an unlimited number of receivers with the right equipment. But for most home users, the dishes come setup to feed two or four receivers (tuners, actually--a dual tuner model needs two feeds).

You can uses as few or as many dishes as your setup permits. I know of some installations where it was simpler to use a second dish rather than running cable all the way from the first. Neither DirecTV nor Dish Network really care about the dishes, how many you have, if you share it with your neighbor, anything like that. All they care about is the receivers and each household paying for their own subscription.

It depends on the dish and package you purchase. If you decided to go with two duals--meaning DirecTV--you'll need an ?? x 4 switch to feed the 4 tuners. (Switch lingo is ## of inputs X ## of outputs.) For technological reasons, each satellite location you want to 'see' will need 2 inputs on the switch. DirecTV has about 95% of their programming at one satellite location, so a 2 x 4 switch (2 in/4 out) will get you the majority of their programming to four tuners.

DirecTV does have some additional programming--spanish language, HDTV, NASA, a few other odds and ends--at other locations. If you wanted those, you'd need a special oval dish, and a 4 x 4 switch, which usually come as a package deal.

Also, you might see some switches with an odd number of inputs--3 or 5. This means the have an additional hookup for an antenna or cable feed, which is also sent through the satellite cable, and then can be removed again at the other end with a small unit called a diplexor. If you don't use it, it has no effect. I used a 3 x 4 switch for a long while with the antenna space left open. It worked fine.

Dish Network is different, as they have a lot of programming split between two different satellite locations, plus additional locals, HDTV, and other odds and ends on third and fourth satellite locations. I'm not familar with their switches, but the basic setup is their Dish 500 which 'sees' the two main locations.

Sorry for the long answer to your quick question.