501 mysteriously losing sat signal...

[jsa_usenet]

My current setup includes two SW64s hooked up with splitter and feeds, etc.

Both SW64's get their power local to the SW64s, as I have them indoors.

Connected to the SW64's are one 921, one 501 (to be replaced, hopefully,
with a 921 at some point) and one ancient 1000.

For some reason, regardless of what switch I'm connecting the 501 to, I have
been getting odd behavior for the last couple of weeks (perhaps longer, I
was out of town).

I'll turn on the receiver, and it will give me that box with "0 of 5" trying to
lock onto transponders.

It will continually fail. However, if I POWER CYCLE the 501 (not hold down
the power button, but remove power), it comes back without any problem.

If I try a check switch prior to power cycling, it fails.

If I try a check switch after a power cycling (which doesn't appear to be
required) it does work.

Any hints?

Thanks,

-Jay

[Alsat]

My 501 is doing the same thing, but no switches. All I have is a single dish looking at 119. My second receiver works fine. I have swapped leads from the dish at the grounding block, with no change in the 501's behavior. I called Dish and apart from running a check switch test on the unit, they had no other suggestions. They did immediately download the new software - 222 - to the unit after I got off the phone and turn off the unit. Even with the new software it does the same thing. If I turn it off - unplug the unit - for a while, it will work for a bit, but lately all I get is the reception is lost box on the screen. When I do have a signal, it is in the 80-90 strength range, and sometimes I have only a few of the transponders but not all so I can watch some channels but not others.

Any suggestions?

[jsa_usenet]

I'm afraid I have no suggestions. It appears, based on all the postings here and on Sattelliteguys, that 501 owners all are mysteriously getting these tuner failures at the same time.

Clearly this is something software related or something. However, I think your best course of action is to continue working with Dish support... I haven't even called them yet because I like to be armed with as much data as possible.

I've confirmed it's not my switch boxes, if I swap receivers it works, and that signal strength is strong. Some suspect hardware/heat related issues, some suspect software, some just general tuner failure. That shouldn't be our (the consumer's) problem.

-Jay

My 501 is doing the same thing, but no switches. All I have is a single dish looking at 119. My second receiver works fine. I have swapped leads from the dish at the grounding block, with no change in the 501's behavior. I called Dish and apart from running a check switch test on the unit, they had no other suggestions. They did immediately download the new software - 222 - to the unit after I got off the phone and turn off the unit. Even with the new software it does the same thing. If I turn it off - unplug the unit - for a while, it will work for a bit, but lately all I get is the reception is lost box on the screen. When I do have a signal, it is in the 80-90 strength range, and sometimes I have only a few of the transponders but not all so I can watch some channels but not others.

Any suggestions?

[jsa_usenet]

I called Dish.

The support person, after hearing my series of troubleshooting steps, conceded that the problem lies within the receiver.

He admitted that it was "odd" that there are complaints of this problem starting on or around June 18th, the time of the last software download, but that there still was no direct confirmation problems started on that day. In fact, I'm pretty sure mine started before that day. He also admitted it was "odd" that so many 501 owners are having this issue right now.

In any case, his only course of action was to ship me a new 501. It's out of warranty, so he's charging me $21.95 (not bad all things considered) and
I'll have a new 501 by Friday.

If the problem repeats itself, all of you will be the first to know.

-Jay

I'm afraid I have no suggestions. It appears, based on all the postings here and on Sattelliteguys, that 501 owners all are mysteriously getting these tuner failures at the same time.

Clearly this is something software related or something. However, I think your best course of action is to continue working with Dish support... I haven't even called them yet because I like to be armed with as much data as possible.

I've confirmed it's not my switch boxes, if I swap receivers it works, and that signal strength is strong. Some suspect hardware/heat related issues, some suspect software, some just general tuner failure. That shouldn't be our (the consumer's) problem.

-Jay

[gregleg]

Interesting. My 501 was acting a bit odd for a time, while the 508 was not. I did't think much of it, and haven't noticed any signal problems lately.

[jsa_usenet]

I received my replacement 501 and installed it last night.

After two hours of normal use, it started failing the same way.

Just to be safe, I swapped it with two other receivers (a model 921 and
a model 1000) and both operated without issues.

The problem is with Dish, I believe. I'll try reloading the new 501 and
post my findings.

Interesting. My 501 was acting a bit odd for a time, while the 508 was not. I did't think much of it, and haven't noticed any signal problems lately.

[Skates]

I also had this problem happen to my 501, but it was a while back. Eventually, I was able to get everything working again by pulling the smartcard and resetting it.

Just thought I'd toss that out for you to try. Hope it helps.

[Bob Haller]

Odd my one 508 did that daily for about a week. hanging on 1 of 5 reboot needed daily.

I swapped sat leads with another 508 at the same location but the problem stayed with the box. Then just for the heck of it I took it off the dishpro 3 to 4 switch and put it directly on my spare 500 with dishpro twin. The problem still stayed with the box. Figured I would call e but never got around to it the problem appears to have mysteriously disappeared. It was mostly a lost guide issue and hanging on downloading guide with the signal strength of about 100 on that transponder. how wierd

with prime time mostly reruns this box isnt getting much use

[rh26]

Me too! :mad:

My problem shows as loss of transponder 6, satellite 119 (only, so far). Interestingly, if I go to the point dish screen (it always starts on TP 8 for some reason) and the move down, via the down arrow on the remote, when I get to TP 6, the signal goes to 0 (other transponders over 100). BUT, if I keep going down to 5 and then scroll back up to 6 it works!

I later verified that if I tuned from virtually any station to one on TP 6 I get the lost signal message, but if I tune to a channel on TP 5 and then direct tune to one of the affected channels it works!

As others have noted, a quick unplug reboot restores normal behavior.

Can any of you post more details? Am I the only one seeing the problem on a single transponder?

Edit: Oh yeah, this is a Dish 500 with no switches. The 501 is my only receiver.

Robert

[Bob Haller]

is anyone other than me seeing this with a 508? for me its mostly a lost guide issue that locks up the box.

Ideally you should still be able to select a channel even with a empty guide. mine still shows the trickle one. but thankfully this hasnt occured for some days now.

wonder if its a data stream issue?

[Mark Lamutt]

Both of my 508s have been fine. I haven't seen any of these symptoms, with my 508s connected to a DP34 switch.

[wamjdavis]

I've had this problem off and on for several months. Sometimes only the odd transponders lock in, sometimes it is just one satellite that will lock, or sometimes it is just the even ones. Mostly happens when the weather is nice with clear, sunny skies hear in Seattle. We do have those.

I got the same advice from CSRs and the only fixes so far are worsening weather and hard reboots of my 501.

[David_Levin]

rh26:
I've seen this EXACT response. My problem was heat. Grab a room fan and point it at the box. See if that helps.

High temp can cause the 501/8/10 to drop transponder(s).

When I debugged this with the CSR they initially blamed cabling since moving the box to my 2nd location (basement=cooler) solved the problem.

[rh26]

rh26:
I've seen this EXACT response. My problem was heat. Grab a room fan and point it at the box. See if that helps.

High temp can cause the 501/8/10 to drop transponder(s).

Interesting!

That might explain why an unplug reboot is only marginally successful but leaving unplugged over night works great. Only problem is that I can't figure out any other changes that would explain why this is a problem NOW (the receiver is where it has been "forever", and the temperature in my house is constant--well, 7-8 degrees warmer since summer kicked in).

I'll try a fan but also investigate whether the internal fan is blowing well.

Does anyone know whether opening the 501 box and vacuuming out dust will break my warranty?

[jsa_usenet]

I'm pretty sure you can open the box up and vacuum it (you should use one of those static-free computer vacuums). There is a sticker inside somewhere that needs to be broken if you try to mess with anything deep inside... Just make sure you don't do that.

If the problem is heat, then I have two questions:

1) Why the sudden onslaught of problems all in mid-June with 501 owners?

and

2) In my case my machine is in a very well ventilated area. If the problem is heat, then the 501 has a manufacturing defect. What will Dish do for me to resolve this? They sent me a new 501 and it still has this problem.

Interesting!

That might explain why an unplug reboot is only marginally successful but leaving unplugged over night works great. Only problem is that I can't figure out any other changes that would explain why this is a problem NOW (the receiver is where it has been "forever", and the temperature in my house is constant--well, 7-8 degrees warmer since summer kicked in).

I'll try a fan but also investigate whether the internal fan is blowing well.

Does anyone know whether opening the 501 box and vacuuming out dust will break my warranty?

[Bob Haller]

You might try using a compressed airline to blow the dust out witout opening the cover. I tried the clean receiver thing with a 4000s / 4700s that acted flakey years ago. they suffered from blinkouts or freezes dont remember for sure. It apperared to help for awhile but the problems returned. my theory is that parts begin to break down and flakey comes first. if you wait long enough eventually the whatever quits altogether. can be cars appliances or sat tv box.

We have a dusty home what with 4 dogs. I relocated my 508s to the basement. away from dust dirt, dogs, kids investigating card slots etc. hard drive noise doesnt disturb my furnace either:)

still things shouldnt be so close to the hairy edge...

[David_Levin]

I'll try a fan but also investigate whether the internal fan is blowing well.

Does anyone know whether opening the 501 box and vacuuming out dust will break my warranty?

Looking at the internal Fan may not help. When my box was overheating the fan never turned on. The only time I saw the fan run was during boot-up.

It's been reported before that the 501/8/10 rarely turn the fan on. They are supposed to be thermally triggered, but Dish is apparently VERY conservative about turning it on (probably to minimize noize).

Heat may or may not have anything to do with your problem (or the other posters in this thread). But, I was getting the same transponder response as you when scrolling up and down in the signal strength screen. First try to cool the box down.

If that helps, there may be a marginal component in the box (failing at a lower temp then expected). Is the box pretty hot? I made Echostar replace mine. They tried to say it was my location, but I complained that if the box was over heating the fan should be running.

I did two things with the replacement box.... I completely removed the cardboard back from the component rack so it now has cross ventilation (I had all ready removed the glass door). And, I wired the internal fan directly to the hard drive power supply (though I can't condone this procedure).

The Warrently seal is generally on the hard drive mounting bracket, so you can pop the top without breaking it. If you have the 508 in a rack with minimum air flow and other components it could easily be overheating. If not, I'd certainly have Echostar replace it.

[Bob Haller]

Wiring the fan for continious operation is a excellent idea. heat is the major enemy of electronic components...

I once serviced a copier that acted flakey too. I came up with adding a muffin fan to cool this one board. It worked great, and the manufacturers rep sent the idea back to the factory and they created a upgrade kit to add to all of this model.

Shortly thereafter the company Danka of holland quit producing copiers. They were real junk quality. Our company ended up giving each and every customer a replacement machine We sold the machines off for scrap prices to another dealer from bufffalo stupid enough to continue using them.

[Spartan]

The problem with only some transponders failing on only some satellites can be caused by several factors. Unless the fan in your receiver has failed, heat is probably the least likely cause.
1. Dish network does not use all the transponders on all satellites all the time, so if you are getting most transponders, but say nothing on transponder 6, satellite 119 its probably because they are not using it at the time and there is no signal to receive on transponder 6.
2.Each receiver's antenna link (if you have a two tuner receiver like the 721 or 921 you have two leads) sends dc voltage up to the LNB. There are 2 distinct voltages that go up (something like 14V and 18V), one activates the horizontally polarized signals, the other the vertical. They double the capacity on the transponders by sending two signals - one horizontally polarized, the other vertical. On your receiver that translates as odd channels on one polarization and even on the other. So if you get most of the even channels on 119, but miss most of the odd channels, you probably have a receiver problem putting out one of those two voltages. When you change channels, the receiver is actually changing that voltage depending on whether you are trying to receive from an odd numbered transponder or even.
So if you are receiving some, but not other channels, more than likely your receiver is in trouble. If you have more than one receiver as I do and you get all the channels on one but not the other receiver, there is nothing wrong with your dish, LNB or switch.
Do not confuse these two voltages with the voltage generated by a power inserter on a SW64 switch, that's something else altogether, that just powers the switch, not the LNB's, if that stops working, you lose all reception.
I have been having problems since I added a 921 to my system and all this was explained to me by a higher level service tech at dish network. They are probably going to replace my 921 when he gets back from vacation, because the problem is intermittent, but annoying enough. I have a 501 and a 4700 receiver on the same system and they have working flawlessly. By the way, you can always take the $5.95 monthly warranty from Dish, have them fix all your problems, including on out-of-warranty receivers and then dump the warranty. Just don't tell them i told you so.

[James Long]

1. Dish network does not use all the transponders on all satellites all the time, so if you are getting most transponders, but say nothing on transponder 6, satellite 119 its probably because they are not using it at the time and there is no signal to receive on transponder 6.
Bzzzzz!

Dish networks does not start and stop transponders in that method.

BTW: 119 tp 6 currently hosts:
131 IFC Independent Film Channel
143 ESPCL ESPN Classic
174 & 847 TDISN Toon Disney
189 & 885 DHLTH Discovery Health
205 FXNWS Fox News Channel
213 NASA
215 TRAV The Travel Channel
226 QVC
301 HBO2E HBO 2 East
302 HBOSG HBO Signature
318 SHO-E Showtime East
944 AUD17 Festive Italian (Mono)

JL

[Bob Haller]

Ahh on reasons one transponder is out. I had that once from tree leaves, it knocked out just one transponder. A few minutes later after my pole pruner did uits thing:) That transponder was back at 100%

I HAVE PERSONALLY SEEN! Where my 721 had lost tuner 2 BUT my two 508s connected directly to the two sat leads worked perfectly. In all cases the signal strength was at or above 100%.

Advanced tech said it was a software issue and that dishpro had more of these sorts of issues.

My 508 that hangs on downloading guide reports a signal strength on the 110 guide transponder of 100%. Once it bugs out again I will try the up down test.

These boxes depend so much on software with a very minor glitch we find problems.

Imagine what the programmers job must be like? Work hard on software, then come here and find its got lots of troubles:(

[Tifftman]

I received my replacement 501 and installed it last night.

After two hours of normal use, it started failing the same way.

Just to be safe, I swapped it with two other receivers (a model 921 and
a model 1000) and both operated without issues.

The problem is with Dish, I believe. I'll try reloading the new 501 and
post my findings.


I have also had a problem with my 501 losing signal. This is my only receiver and it is hooked to a DishPro twin and a DishPro dual looking at 119 110 & 61.5.

After losing the signal I tried re-booting(holding the power button), removing the smart card, and unplugging it over night. No luck. However, after trying the unplugging option this morning, while I was on hold trying to talk to a CSR, it found the satellite. I did the check switch test and was getting 125 signal strength on 119, 117 on 110 and 121 on 61.5. I set it up to record a movie but after 31 minutes it lost the signal again and it hasn't come back.

I've seen a lot of talk about overheating so I have a thermometer on top of the receiver to check. The temperature was 86 when it quit. Maybe not ideal but certainly not too hot for such equipment.

The only other thing I noticed was that when it acquired the signal the sky was absolutely clear, but since then it was been somewhat cloudy(not heavy overcast though). I've been a customer long enough to know how you can loose the signal in rain or snow. Maybe there's some thing wrong with the receiver so that it can process only a very strong signal now. Or maybe the LNB is defective so it is unable to amplify a signal with any cloud interference.

Any one have any new ideas or should I just tell Dish to send me a replacement receiver and hope for the best?

[wamjdavis]

Someone is reporting similar loss of signal problems with a 301 today
Maybe this is software problem with recent upgrades? sure suspicious to me ..

see Signal Loss Problems Need Help!

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tried this post on the technical thread but got no response. I have a 301 receiver that is giving me fits. I have been losing the even number transponders (2,4,6, and 8) on satellite 119 recently. A couple of days ago I hit System Info and it stated that I was "currently experiencing signal loss." From July 7th to today I have logged 17 signal losses. Could that mean a bad receiver, switch etc? I am just wondering if the signal losses could possibly pinpoint my problem. Probably a stupid question, but thought I would ask it anyway.

[SimpleSimon]

Assuming you are DishPro, it could mean your feed cable and/or connectors are not up to snuff - especially the connectors. DishPro puts the even transponders in a higher band on the cable, which is much more sensitive to things like connector corrosion.

[gregleg]

Well, my 501 has pretty much completely lost the ability to hold a lock. The 508 and 4900's all work fine, and moving cables around has proved to me that it's the 501 itself, not an output on the Quad switch or a cable.

Pulling the smartcard, and unpluggin the unit for a while, don't help. Overheating is an interesting possibilty that I'll investigate, but I think I'm going to be giving Dish a call as well.

[Alsat]

My 501 is still doing the same thing, swapped dish leads at the grounding block where they enter the house, no change in the 501's behaviour. I blew the dust off/out of it, left it disconnected for a few days, set it up on blocks so it gets more circulation, no change. This morning when I turned it on I had transponders 1 through 12, nothing on 13 through 21. Pressed and held the power button to reset it, and got all the transponders for about 20 minutes, then lost them all. Temperature-wise, it sets on a shelf in the basement where the temperature has been in the middle 60's since summer began, in the lower 60's during winter. I removed a questionable tree limb and got the signal to go from 90-95 up to 95-100 on the transponders - when I get them. The 6000 on the other lead has worked flawlessly, on either feed.

[Bob Haller]

Your box is fried, time for RMA:(

[Alsat]

Playing around with the 501 some more, sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't. When I do a check switch, I can get a SWAJ with or without a satellite detected, I have gotten an SW64 with 119 on 2a/b and 3a/b and occasionally the right answer of no switch and 119 in slot 1. Sometimes, I can go into the guide with the error message and then get the question about guide being out of date, download or cancel. Cancelling will sometimes result in a signal.

Question. Does the new software for the 501 support the old, i.e. non Dishpro LNBs?

[Bob Haller]

all software is supposed to support legacy as well as dishpro on dishpro capable receivers

[gregleg]

Your box is fried, time for RMA:(

I still find it very interesting that so many 501's "fried" themselves at the same time...

[Alsat]

The odd thing is I've noticed that even though it will not function properly when I turn it on with the remote & switch channels, etc. it has recorded two timer events flawlessly. I need to set up a few more to test this.

[Bob Haller]

I noted exactly the same thing here. Its GOOD this bug doesnt cause lost recordings:(

I wonder if its a data stream issue, or a software one? I too doubt all these reports are by chance/ I also noted some days everything is fine, others repeated bug outs:(

There are probabvly E e enginners sctratching their heads over this...

[garypen]

There are probabvly E e enginners sctratching their heads over this...
I have a feeling that E engineers do a lot of scratching of themselves, in general, in addition to picking the bugs out of each others' fur.

[Bob Haller]

I have a feeling that E engineers do a lot of scratching of themselves, in general, in addition to picking the bugs out of each others' fur.

:D :D :D :D :hurah:

[jsa_usenet]

Dish still refuses to make any acknowledgement of any common defect hardware or software, heat or otherwise. Even if it is a heat-related problem, it still is a defect as these units are often in well-ventilated areas when they fail.

I RMA's my 501 and the new one still has intermittant problems. Then I packed up my house and put it on a truck to move to the east coast, so it will be a week or three before I can test it again.

There is something fishy here, but I'll just close out my thoughts with a Dish rep's quote to me:

"Well, the 501 is already a rather old unit. Maybe it's time to consider an upgrade?"

(My 1000 still works, btw.)

-j

:D :D :D :D :hurah:

[Bob Haller]

E rarely admits they are having tech troubles, advanced tech once said lost tuner 2s werent a known 721 problem.....

its the most common 721 trouble and I had talked to a well placed insider about the very issue. he mentioned the less expensive 301 tuner never failed...............

[mrtesla]

I have 2 501s in the same fan cooled cabinet one is having signal loss problems and the other is working fine. The max temp in the cabinet has been 78deg.
I have switched cables checked all connections and the problem stays with the box. I have taken the box out blown it out with compressed air reinstalled it and the signal loss was still there. After doing the unplug then switch check this morning it worked fine all day around 8pm when changing channels it lost sat signal for about 5 min when it started working I changed thru all channels with no problems.

[jsa_usenet]

Your experience is identical to mine... It's the intermittant nature of the failure that makes it hard to pin down. I can sometimes get it to work for hours without a failure. Sometimes it will lose sat signal and immediately come back for hours. Other times I'll need to do the cold start reboot.

-j

I have 2 501s in the same fan cooled cabinet one is having signal loss problems and the other is working fine. The max temp in the cabinet has been 78deg.
I have switched cables checked all connections and the problem stays with the box. I have taken the box out blown it out with compressed air reinstalled it and the signal loss was still there. After doing the unplug then switch check this morning it worked fine all day around 8pm when changing channels it lost sat signal for about 5 min when it started working I changed thru all channels with no problems.

[Alsat]

Here is another quirk. When I have the lost satellite error message showing channel and transponder, the channel does not always match the channel selected. For instance, this morning I turned it on with the info overlay saying 300 HBO-E but the error message said channel 120, transponder 19. Changing the channel up or down the overlay would change to 301, 302, 303 etc but the error message was always for channel 120 and transponder 19. Sometimes going into the guide (to set up a timer which almost always works) will result in the channel being "acquired" when canceling out.

How much more than ~100 signal strength do I need to get reliable reception with a 501?

[ts937km]

Reseated all of the cables (including the ones on the dish), turned off and on, pulled the card, trimmed tree limbs that were 24 degrees above the dish, etc.) For signal strength I have 125 and 110 (can't remember which is which at the moment). Replaced cable between wall jack and TV. The only thing I haven't done is replaced the cable through the wall yet (100 year old house and it was tough to get the original in)

Randomly loses sound and sometimes video but just for a sec on all channels including spotbeams. Looked for squirrels/birds standing in front of it...

It's about to make me switch providers.

[jsa_usenet]

We're all getting the same sat and transponder error. Come on! If this
was just parts getting old...

Now I'm just getting pissed.

Reseated all of the cables (including the ones on the dish), turned off and on, pulled the card, trimmed tree limbs that were 24 degrees above the dish, etc.) For signal strength I have 125 and 110 (can't remember which is which at the moment). Replaced cable between wall jack and TV. The only thing I haven't done is replaced the cable through the wall yet (100 year old house and it was tough to get the original in)

Randomly loses sound and sometimes video but just for a sec on all channels including spotbeams. Looked for squirrels/birds standing in front of it...

It's about to make me switch providers.

[Bob Haller]

Me too, found both of my 508s this way in the am. reboot as usual fixed it.

E has some sort of problem.... mine are on a different twin DP LNB and all cables were replaced too.

[z28man]

My 501 is also losing signal. It started a few weeks ago. Sometimes a check switch test will correct the problem. When it doesn't I have to do without satellite TV for a few days before it comes back. It got bad enough that I got a 721. Then I find out the 721 will not work with only one tuner connected to the satellite. But that is another story....

[jsa_usenet]

You may want to consider getting a DPP44 switch, since you have the 721. It allows you to run two feeds over a single cable (when combined with a DPP Separator at the receiver end). I think the minimum requirements are that your LNBFs on your dishes are DishPro or DishProPlus.

My 501 is also losing signal. It started a few weeks ago. Sometimes a check switch test will correct the problem. When it doesn't I have to do without satellite TV for a few days before it comes back. It got bad enough that I got a 721. Then I find out the 721 will not work with only one tuner connected to the satellite. But that is another story....

[mrtesla]

Has anyone figured out any solution to this problem? My 501 seems to be getting worse, to start with it would only have the problem when switching channels but now flashes lost signal and then back to the program. If I pull the smart card then check switch it will work for a couple days again. I have now tested it with a new lnbf and dp34 switch with the same results as with the legacy lnbfs and sw21.

[Alsat]

Has anyone figured out any solution to this problem? My 501 seems to be getting worse, to start with it would only have the problem when switching channels but now flashes lost signal and then back to the program. If I pull the smart card then check switch it will work for a couple days again. I have now tested it with a new lnbf and dp34 switch with the same results as with the legacy lnbfs and sw21.

I let mine go until it would never work - even with unplugging, reseting, pulling the card etc (it was my second receiver and wasn't watched much). Then I called Dish again, went through the steps they suggested, nothing worked to regain the signal, they offered to replace it even though it was out of warranty for $36, something like $20 for the replacement unit and $16 for shipping or vice versa. Had the new unit in a couple of days, hooked it up, it has worked with no problems.