Dish Satellites transponder Loads

[TNGTony]

The information below is based on info from http://ekb.dbstalk.com/dishlist.htm (www.dishchannelchart.com)

Transponder Number = Video Channels + whatever

Satellite and transponder load

61.5°
Tp 2 = 10
Tp 6 = 11 + 3 Audio
Tp 8 = 8
Tp 10 = 11
Tp 12 = 11
Tp 14 = 8
Tp 18 = 10
Tp 20 = 2 HD Channels
Tp 22 = 14 ???
Tp 25 = 19 (10 Video 9 audio) SKY ANGEL
Tp 26 = 12
Tp 27 = 10
Tp 29 = 8 + 44 hour EPG
Tp 30 = 12
Tp 31 = 11
Tp 32 = 17 (10 video 7 audio) SKY ANGEL


105°
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 2 = 12 + 1 info channel (5 chanels being released when Missoula "moves" 7/7)
Tp 3 = 12 (6 channels being released when Albany "moves")
Tp 4 = 1 (Room for about 11 more channels)
Tp 5 = 13
Tp 6 = 11
Tp 7 = 7 + 1 "info slate" + 44 Hour EPG (Rome for about 5 channels)
Tp 8 = 12
Tp 9 = 12
Tp 10 = 6 (Room for about 6 more channels)
Tp 11 = 12
Tp 12 = 12
Tp 13 = 12 (6 channels being released when Madison "moves")
Tp 14 = 8 (Room for about 4 more channels)
Tp 15 = 12
Tp 16 = 10 (Room for about 2 more channels)
Tp 17 = 12
Tp 18 = 12 (6 channels being released when Boise "moves")
Tp 19 = 12
Tp 20 = 12
Tp 21 = 11
Tp 22 = 12
Tp 23 = 12
Tp 24 = 0

110° ConUS
Tp 1 = 11 + 2 "info slates"
Tp 3 = 10 (8 PPV)
Tp 5 = 12 (All locals none available nationwide)
Tp 7 = 2 HD Channels
Tp 9 = 13
Tp 11 = 11 (+5 mirrors)
Tp 12 = 10 (All locals none available nationwide)
Tp 13 = 2 HD Channels
Tp 14 = 10 (All locals, Denver nets)
Tp 15 = 14 (4 "info" slates)
Tp 16 = 11 (All locals, Dallas & Atlanta Nets)
Tp 17 = 2 HD Channels
Tp 18 = 10 (+3 mirrors)
Tp 19 = 2 HD Channels
Tp 20 = 11 (All locals, Chicago nets)
Tp 21 = 6 + 44 hour EPG & 2 mirrors
Tp 22 = 12 + 2 mirrors
Tp 23 = 11 + 2 mirrors
Tp 24 = 11 + 1 "info slate"
Tp 25 = 10 + 1 engineering channel + 2 mirrors
Tp 26 = 8 + 2 info slates + 1 mirror
Tp 27 = 10 (+ 2 mirrors)
Tp 28 = OWNED BY DIRECTV
Tp 29 = 7 + 2 "info slates" + 1 Open TV Portal + 9 Day EPG + 1 Engeneering Ch.
Tp 30 = OWNED BY DIRECTV
Tp 31 = 9 + 1 Engineering channel + Bingo TV!

110° Spot Beams
Spot 1
Tp 6 = 11

Spot 2
Tp 8 = 11
Tp 10 = 12

Spot 4
Tp 2 = 12

Spot 5
Tp 4 = 7

Spot 6
Tp 8 = 9 (+ 1 mirror)
Tp 2 = 12

Spot 7
Tp 2 = 12
Tp 8 = 12
Tp 10 = 12 (+ 2 mirrors)

Spot 8
Tp 10 = 12

Spot 9
Tp 4 = 12
Tp 6 = 12

Spot 10
Tp 2 = 12
Tp 8 = 12
TP 10 = 12

Spot 12
Tp 2 = 12
Tp 6 = 12
Tp 10 = 12

Spot 13
Tp 4 = 11
Tp 6 = 11

Spot 26????
Tp 6 = 12


119° ConUS
Tp 2 = 10 ( + 4 Mirrors)
Tp 4 = 9 + 16 audio channels + Open TV Weather Channel + a slew of mirrors
Tp 6 = 12 + 1 Audio channel
Tp 8 = 10 + 8 Audio Channels
Tp 10 = 10
Tp 11 = 13
Tp 12 = 10 + 11 Audio Channels + a slew of mirrors
Tp 13 = 10 + 12 Audio Channels
Tp 14 = 10 (mostly movie channels)
Tp 15 = 10 + 6 Audio channels + a slew of mirrors
Tp 16 = 10 + 7 Audio channels
Tp 17 = 9 + 7 Audio Channels + Mirrors
Tp 18 = 8 + 18 Audio Channels + 1 "info slate"
Tp 19 = 6 + 6 Audio channels + 44 Hour EPG
Tp 20 = 9 + 14 Audio Channels + a slew of mirrors
Tp 21 = 8 + 21 Audio Channels

119° Spot Beams
Spot 1
Tp 9 = 10

Spot 2
Tp 9 = 8

Spot 3
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 3 = 12

Spot 4
Tp 5 = 12
Tp 7 = 12

Spot 5
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 3 = 11

Spot 6
Tp 5 = 12
Tp 7 = 9

Spot 7
Tp 9 = 12

Spot 9
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 3 = 11

Spot 10
Tp 5 = 12 + 1 mirror
Tp 7 = 12

Spot 11
Tp 5 = 12
Tp 7 = 12

Spot 12
Tp 9 = 12

Spot 13
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 3 = 12

Spot 14
Tp 5 = 12
Tp 7 = 12 + 2 mirrors

Spot 15
Tp 1 = 10
Tp 3 = 11


121°
Tp 1 = 5
Tp 2 = 6
Tp 3 = 6
Tp 4 = 10 (International channels)
Tp 5 = 6 (International channels)
Tp 6 = 10 (International channels)
Tp 7 = 10
Tp 8 = 6
Tp 9 = 6
Tp 10 = 5
Tp 11 = 10
Tp 12 = 8
Tp 13 = 10
Tp 14 = 12
Tp 15 = 10 (International Channels)
Tp 16 = 7 (International Channels)
Tp 17 = 0
Tp 18 = 7
Tp 19 = 9
Tp 20 = 10 + 2 Audio (International Channels)
Tp 21 = 8 (International channels & 1 local)+ 44 hour EPG
Tp 22 = 7
Tp 23 = 5
Tp 24 = 5
Tp 26 = 8 (International Channels)
Tp 27 = 3 (International Channels)
Tp 28 = 4

148°
Tp 1 = 11 + 3 Audio
Tp 2 = 8
Tp 3 = 9
Tp 4 = 10
Tp 5 = 2 Test channels
Tp 6 = 2
Tp 7 = 9
Tp 8 = 6
Tp 9 = 9
Tp 10 = 11
Tp 11 = 10
Tp 12 = 3
Tp 13 = 2 HD channels
Tp 14 = 2 HD channels
Tp 15 = 7
Tp 16 = 0
Tp 17 = 2 HD channels
Tp 18 = 12 (test channels)
Tp 19 = 8 + 44 hour EPG
Tp 20 = 9 (Test channels)
Tp 21 = 6
Tp 22 = 0
Tp 23 = 18 (Test channels mostly Open TV applications)
Tp 24 = 0
Tp 25 = 4
Tp 26 = 0
Tp 27 = 11
Tp 28 = 0
Tp 29 = 8
Tp 30 = 0
Tp 31 = 3 (Test HD channels)
Tp 32 = 0


157°
Tp 1 = 12
Tp 7 = 8
Tp 11 = 10

[Mike123abc]

61.5 has 4 and 28 empty... Possibly lost 28 on E3 but have not seen an official indication of that.

121 has 29,30,31 and 32 empty

3 spot transponders unused on 110 (using 22 of 25)
1 spot transponder unsed on 119 (using 24 of 25)
I do not know what flexibility they have of turning these on though.

[JohnH]

Locals Count Per Location
119 Conus 16
119 Spots 275
61.5 66
110 Conus 57
110 Spots 255
148 62
129 0
121 122
105 250

Total Local Channels = 1103

Total Channels In The System = 2130

[citico]

What is the difference between a spot and conus signal.

[Art7220]

What is the difference between a spot and conus signal.
Well, a spotbeam covers only a small region of the country while the conus signal covers the entire country plus spillover at the borders.

-A-

[JohnH]

Data from the system tables. Includes mirrors, data, TV, HDTV, Test and Radio/Audio channels.

NUMBER OF CHANNELS PER TRANSPONDER:
EchoStar 7 at 119w ConUS
2 13
4 34
6 16
8 26
10 15
11 21
12 33
13 28
14 14
15 33
16 23
17 21
18 34
19 32
20 45
21 43
EchoStar 7 at 119w Spotbeam Tps
41 12 Tp 1 South California beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
43 11 Tp 3 South California beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
45 12 Tp 5 North California beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
47 12 Tp 7 North California beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
49 10 Tp 9 Hawaii beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
51 12 Tp 1 Central Plains beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
53 11 Tp 3 Central Plains beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
55 12 Tp 5 Arizona beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
57 9 Tp 7 Arizona beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
59 0 Tp 9 Mexico City beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
61 12 Tp 1 Northeast beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
63 12 Tp 3 Northeast beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
65 13 Tp 5 Texas beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
67 12 Tp 7 Texas beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
69 12 Tp 9 Utah beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
71 10 Tp 1 South Florida beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
73 11 Tp 3 South Florida beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
75 12 Tp 5 Midwest beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
77 12 Tp 7 Midwest beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
79 8 Tp 9 Alaska beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
81 12 Tp 1 Northwest beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
83 12 Tp 3 Northwest beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
85 12 Tp 5 Carolinas beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
87 14 Tp 7 Carolinas beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
89 12 Tp 9 Deep South beam on EchoStar 7 at 119w
EchoStar 3 at 61.5w ConUS
102 10
104 0
106 14
108 8
110 11
112 11
114 10
116 0
118 10
120 2
122 12
125 18
126 12
127 10
128 0
129 20
130 12
131 11
132 18
EchoStar 6/8 at 110w ConUS
201 16
203 13
205 13
207 2
209 15
210 0
211 15
212 10
213 2
214 10
215 19
216 11
217 2
218 13
219 2
220 11
221 17
222 21
223 15
224 26
225 15
226 17
227 19
229 14
231 16
EchoStar 8 at 110w Spotbeam Tps
242 12 Tp 2 South California beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
244 13 Tp 4 Midwest beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
246 12 Tp 6 Midwest beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
248 11 Tp 8 North California beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
250 12 Tp 10 North California beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
252 12 Tp 2 Northern Plains beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
254 7 Tp 4 Colorado beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
256 11 Tp 6 Northwest beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
258 12 Tp 8 Northern Plains beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
260 14 Tp 10 Northern Plains beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
262 12 Tp 2 Ohio beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
264 11 Tp 4 Northeast beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
266 11 Tp 6 Northeast beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
268 12 Tp 8 Ohio beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
270 12 Tp 10 Ohio beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
272 12 Tp 2 Central Florida beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
274 0 Tp 4 UNDEFINED beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
276 12 Tp 6 Central Florida beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
278 0 Tp 8 UNDEFINED beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
280 12 Tp 10 South Florida beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
282 12 Tp 2 Texas beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
284 0 Tp 4 Caribbean beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
286 12 Tp 6 New Mexico beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
288 9 Tp 8 Texas beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
290 12 Tp 10 Texas beam on EchoStar 8 at 110w
EchoStar 1/2 at 148w ConUS
301 14
302 8
303 10
304 10
305 2
306 2
307 9
308 5
309 9
310 11
311 10
312 3
313 2
314 4
315 7
316 0
317 2
318 12
319 18
320 9
321 6
322 0
323 21
324 0
325 4
326 0
327 10
328 0
329 8
330 0
331 3
332 0
Intelsat Americas 7 at 129w ConUS(currently inactive)
417 1
EchoStar 9 at 121w ConUS
501 5
502 6
503 6
504 10
505 6
506 10
507 10
508 6
509 6
510 5
511 10
512 8
513 11
514 10
515 10
516 7
517 0
518 7
519 9
520 12
521 15
522 9
523 5
524 6
525 0
526 8
527 3
528 4
529 0
530 0
531 0
532 0
AMC 2 at 105w ConUS
601 12
602 15
603 12
604 1
605 13
606 11
607 16
608 12
609 12
610 7
611 12
612 12
613 12
614 8
615 12
616 10
617 12
618 12
619 12
620 12
621 11
622 12
623 12
624 0

TOTAL CHANNELS IN THE SYSTEM = 2130

[James Long]

Transponder Number = Video Channels + whatever

Satellite and transponder load

61.5°
Tp 22 = 14 ??? I'm only seeing 12 in the SDT
7170 Ch30 WLMT
8077 Ch56 WNVC
8080 Ch14 WFDC
8081 Ch32 WHUT
8084 Ch53 WNVT
8085 Ch68 WJAL
8583 Ch22 KAWE
8777 Ch50 WNDS
8778 Ch27 WUNI
8780 Ch66 WUTF
8781 Ch11 WENH
8782 Ch44 WGBX

JohnH's numbers reflect those 12.

110° ConUS
Tp 9 = 1311 video and three data, thanks to mirroring
192 DTIME
401 GOLF
407 & 853 GOLTV
498 PLBYE
838 MUN2
840 TVEI
845 DISCE
857 SUR
865 CINEL
868 TLHIT
872 MTVES
9603 MCN2
19088 KIDW
19089 KIDWV

110° ConUS
Tp 15 = 14 (4 "info" slates)10 channels, 1 mirrored slate, and four data feeds
175 BOOM
178 NICKT
179 & 888 DKIDS
404 HRTV
9400 RSRCH
9402 PBS-U
9403 BYUTV
9404 UWTV
9407 COLRS
9408 DSTAR
125, 196, 197, and 198 - Info Slate mirrored
Data: 19001, 19003, 19116, 19117

119° ConUS
Tp 11 = 13 12 video channels
101 DNFYI + 480 & 490 ALOCK (Same video)
172 DISNE
210 CSPAN
212 CSPN2
222 HSN
225 TBFC + 9602 BTV (Same video)
228 SHNBC
260 TBN
261 EWTN
262 ANGEL
827 UNVSN
9412 UCTV

Any time I see a transponder with more than 12 video channels I know that there is mirroring or some other trick in place. I'll be suprised if I ever see more than 12 on a transponder. (Except on 105 after AMC-15 launches. I expect 16-18 channels per transponder there, if the bird works good.)

JL

[SimpleSimon]

... Any time I see a transponder with more than 12 video channels I know that there is mirroring or some other trick in place. I'll be suprised if I ever see more than 12 on a transponder. (Except on 105 after AMC-15 launches. I expect 16-18 channels per transponder there, if the bird works good.)

JL
Why would you expect more channels per transponder on the 105 bird?

I thought bandwidth per transponder was a fixed value (maybe different for DSS vs. FSS), and therefore for the same compression factor, the same number of channels, if you see what I mean.

[Mike123abc]

Why would you expect more channels per transponder on the 105 bird?

I thought bandwidth per transponder was a fixed value (maybe different for DSS vs. FSS), and therefore for the same compression factor, the same number of channels, if you see what I mean.

It depends on how the 105 satellite is configured. The DBS satellites (and 121) are configured with 32 transponders over the 500 megahertz. Standard Ku-FSS satellites are configured with 24 transponders over the 500 megahertz. The current 105 is 24 transponders. So, essentially every transponder on 105 (if it is done with 24) will have 1/3 more bandwidth per transponder.

[JohnH]

Why would you expect more channels per transponder on the 105 bird?

I thought bandwidth per transponder was a fixed value (maybe different for DSS vs. FSS), and therefore for the same compression factor, the same number of channels, if you see what I mean.

105 is running 24 transponders in the 500mhz space instead of the 32 at the other slots. Therefore the transponders are wider in bandwidth than the other slots. They are currently running SR 26000 there and the other slots run SR 20000(SR 21500 for 8PSK). There would be more channels at 105 if they had more power so the FEC does not have to be run at 2/3.

[SimpleSimon]

Ah! there we are - dunno what FEC stands for, but my suspicion is still right, although in a different way. Basically, we don't really care (too much) about channels per transponder, but total channels in the 500MHz. 32t*12c=384. 24t*16c=384

I'm ignoring spot beams of course.

[Mike123abc]

FEC is forward error correction. Since the satellite signals are weak there tends to be a lot of bits dropped in the transmission. FEC allows the reciever to reconstruct the signal. The more FEC the less chance of signal loss. It is expressed as a fraction 2/3 FEC is really 1/3 error correction 2/3 program, i.e. 1 out of 3 bits transmitted is error correction. Most of Dish's satellites are doing 5/6 FEC, DIRECTV does 6/7.

[rocatman]

It appears with the launch of AMC-15 to the 105 slot, Dish will gain some major capacity since AMC-15 is higher powered than the current satellite at 105 so the error correction can be turned down from FEC of 2/3 to perhaps 5/6. I have to believe we will see some future HD programming going to 105 instead of more locals especially with the planned 110 spotbeam satellite to be launched next year. The big thing right now is for Dish to get the DPP-44 fixed. I hope Dish also comes out with a standalone Dish for just 105 or 121 instead of just having the SuperDish as an option for 105/121.

[James Long]

Basically, we don't really care (too much) about channels per transponder, but total channels in the 500MHz. 32t*12c=384. 24t*16c=384

I'm ignoring spot beams of course.
Since E* doesn't own every transponder on every orbital slot they use working "per transponder" is the best way. "Per transponder" also works with spotbeams. On the standard 1/32th channels found on all E* locations other than 105 12 video streams seems to be the limit. It is an important number.

And note I said 12 video streams, not 12 channels. There are plenty of mirrored channels where one video serves two or three numbered channels. It can make it look like the transponders have a much higher load.

And yes, when 105 is upgraded later this year they should be able to get more than 12 channels on each of the larger transponders. With the caveat being "larger". When we start to see sixteen SDs or three HDs on a 105 transponder don't expect to see more than twelve SDs on the other satellite's transponders. (Although 3 HDs may be done if the tests ever work out.)

JL

[Dsquared]

Based on current or future capacities and technologies what would be the maximum number of HD channels Dish could provide?

I was recently told by a CSR that they expect to offer 50 HD channels by years' end!! Is this possible?

Dsquared

PS I realize the unreliable nature of CSRs information on the future. I am interested in the technical possibily of 50 channels.

[James Long]

Based on current or future capacities and technologies what would be the maximum number of HD channels Dish could provide?
It depends on how spread out they are. The former planned location for HD was 105.

If my counts are right, 105 now has 253 video channels with 23 leaving for 121 and one slate channel stating that fact. There are also a group of internal channels for EPG, software downloads, and of course the channel 7000 to say you have a SuperDish @ 105.

After the locals moving to 121 are removed they will have 230 video channels ... which on the current satellite would consume 20 of the 24 transponders. Four transponders is enough space for 8 HDs, with the current 8 HDs at 110 someone with SuperDish105 could get 16 HD channels.

This fall AMC-15 will replace the decrepid old bird at 105 and it may be possible to put the remaining 230 locals on 15 transponders. That leaves 9 transponders free for other uses ... possibly 27 HDs plus the 8 on 110 would be 35. E* would need to find additional capacity to get to the magic number of 50 HDs.

Yes, they had room for 50 HDs on 105 ... but they filled it with something else. :) At this point ... they don't have 50 HDs to put on any bird, so it is a bit of a moot point.

JL

[HTguy]

They still seem to be limited to 2 HDs per T despite the conversion to 8PSK.

This doesn't bode well for more HDs in the near future. I'm hoping BRAVO-HD will be up in time for the Olympics and not having STARZ HD is a bummer!

[TNGTony]

At 148° transponder 12, they were testing three HD channels per transponder. I don't know if they are still actually sending three HD signals there at the moment. But it was reported they were a while back. I haven't heard anything new for a while.

See ya
Tony

[Mike123abc]

VOOM runs 3 per transponder, but their satellite is new and has higher power, so they cut back error correction some. Perhaps Dish saw too much rain fade on their 3 per transponder test. More likely Dish is holding back on the technology until they have to do it since:

1. They would have more rain fade, how much is hard to say, but people might be willing to trade a bit more rain fade for 50% more HD channels. The satellites at 110 would be about like VOOM power since E6 and E8 are pretty new. People complain about rain fade on VOOM a lot, but hard to tell how much of that is elevation related.

2. They would have to start compressing the HD a bit. IF they went with VOOM's rate they would get 50.7 mbit/sec or about 16.9 mbit/sec per channel. It can be done, but every now and then the picture would have to soften a bit if all 3 channels demanded the full 19.2mbit/sec at the same time.

They are using 4 HD transponders on 110. This would give them 4 more channels, for a total of 12.

On the 105 front, if they keep 230 STD def channels they would use about 15 transponders worth of space. This would leave 9 free transponders. Assuming they dedicate them all to HDTV they would have 27 more channels. They can fit 3/transponder on 105 much easier since there are 24 transponders instead of 32 in the same signal space, so each transponder has 33% more space. They could run the transponders at 3/4 error correction and not have the rain fade problems.

So, they could end up with 12 HDTV channels on 110 and 27 on 105 for a total of 39 HDTV channels. It is very unlikely that they will have 50 channels, in fact I doubt that they will even come up with 39. VOOM has 10 movie channels produced in house to get close to 39 channels.

[FarNorth]

I started another thread but maybe this is the place to ask my questions:

Here's my story: I live Alaska and I currently have:

30" dish tuned to 148, great reception

30" dish tuned to 119, average reception, signal in the 70s.

48" dish tuned to 110, average to poor reception, signals in the 60s and even into the low 50s.

Yes, this is the price of living in Alaska. Now, here is my thought: I'll move 119 to the 48" dish and install a 6' dish in the back yard to get 110. However, I don't want to do that if Dish is going to move more programming from 110 to either 119 or 148 or if they have another satellite coming on line that will change my needs. Any hints where they're heading and how that will affect me in Alaska?

I get CBS HD on 148, solid as a rock.

I get my HD Pack on 110, 85-90% reliable. I lose HDNet first, then ESPN and then all of them. I also get some of my 'fringe' SD channels on 110.

I get the rest of my programming on 119, 95-98% reliable. Lose it when it is very windy or heavy rain or snow.

What should I do? If I am going to install a pole-mounted 6 footer, it will have to be within the next 90 days as the calendar inevitably flips over and I do not want to be digging a hole and pouring concrete in frozen ground.

[Mike123abc]

119 is pretty much full, very unlikely anything would move from 110 to 119.

I do not see them moving anything off of 119/110 to 148.

The only thing I would be worried about in AK is if they add a bunch of HD to 105. Now 105 footprint does show covering the eastern 3/4 of AK pretty well (http://www.geamericom.com/satellites/amc-15.html). That might require a second 6' dish for you!

[James Long]

The only thing I would be worried about in AK is if they add a bunch of HD to 105. Now 105 footprint does show covering the eastern 3/4 of AK pretty well). That might require a second 6' dish for you!
Although I'd put off worrying about 105º until next year. E* won't have AMC-15 until the end of this year, and they really won't know if it will really work for anything until they can get the signals up.

I suppose having another pole in the yard now wouldn't hurt though. For whatever bird it ends up looking at. You (FarNorth) could drop in the dish for 110º and turn it if the feeds ever leave for another home.

JL

[mwgiii]

I just wanted to say thanks to TNGTony, Mike123abc, JohnH, & justalurker for the hard work and great info.

[JohnH]

AMC 15 is scheduled for launch August 29, 2004 and testing at 136w before moving to 105w.

[Mike123abc]

I currently think Dish does not really have a plan. I think they are waiting on DIRECTV. DIRECTV is waiting on the locals to move off of 101 to 119. They have 119 working now, but they have to wait a bit for all the people to get the triple LNB dish installed before they can turn them off of 101. So, after whatever grace period they give them DIRECTV will have space free up on 101. What will DIRECTV do with this new found space? Some rumors have been going around of adding up to 20 or so HDTV channels.

I think Dish will pretty much match whatever DIRECTV does. Dish would be hard pressed to fit much more HD on 119/110 (possibly 4 more if they squeeze 3/transponder). So, the theory comes up that dish will go to 105 with the HD. But, of course Dish is waiting on both 105 launch AND the DPP44. September will be an interesting month.

[Rick_R]

I apologize for resurrecting this old thread but it had such great info. However a couple of pieces of info are missing that I hoped someone could provide.

It is my recollection that DBS satellites using QPSK have 30 mbps per transponder. Is this correct? Is this before FEC? How many MBPS for 8PSK (45 MBPS?) and what FEC does 8PSK use?

Thanks,

Rick R

[P Smith]

Some numbers you can find at www.lyngsat.com

[Rick_R]

From the above link I determined that Dish uses FEC 2/3 for 8PSK HD on DBS satellites. I still would like to know the bit rate for QPSK and 8PSK. That is bit rate before or after FEC.

Rick R

[James Long]

Thinking off the top of my head: (corrections welcome)
Typical E* transponder (on 110) - SR 20000 5/6 FEC
Typical E* HD transponder - SR 21500 2/3 FEC

SR is Symbol Rate ... how many SYMBOLS per second
QPSK has 2 bit symbols, 8PSK has 3 bit symbols
Raw data rate for SD - 40,000 kbits
Raw data rate for HD - 64,500 kbits

FEC is forward error correction, the fraction of bits that count (remainder is error correction) 5/6 FEC has five out of six bits uised for data and one used for correction.
After FEC Rate for SD - 33.333 mbits
After FEC Rate for HD - 43.000 mbits

There is a framing issue in MPEG2 that robs bits as well - IIRC you get 188 of 204 bits for real data (old notes) bringing us down to 30.7m or 39.6m available for content streams.

Then there are a lot of non-channel feeds on each transponder. A simple PRESENT/NEXT EPG used for the browse banner, the channel list and transponder tables needed to tell your receiver where to go to get the next channel you tune to and the all important authorization streams. The rest of the space can be divided up among streams to feed channels. One video stream and one or more audio stream per channel. Some of the transponders (those with sports) have hidden slate channels for season tickets and other "off air" slates (making it easy for E* to turn on and off the mirrors they set up for season ticket packages).

Nothing simple but all managed.

JL

[Rick_R]

Thanks James for the info. This was the info I wanted. However since mbps are needed for satellite television I assume your numbers are X1000?

Rick R

[James Long]

X1000 makes sense. I knew I missed something. :D

JL