921 - L186 Software Release Notes

[Mark Lamutt]

Just got this in early this morning. Here's the official release notes for L186:

1. Support added for the DishPro+44 switch.

2. Support added for a cascaded DishPro 34/DishPro 21 switch configuration and for a cascaded DishPro+44/DishPro 21 switch configuration.

3. Support added for the DishPro+ Twin LNB.

4. Fixes for OTA channel losses (ie "Channel Not Found..." messages.

5. Some Timer fixes, although there are still a few issues being investigated and tested.

6. Fix for Auto-Tune/VCR timer bug with analog OTA stations.

7. Support added for the DishPro+ Separator - the device that lets you connect one satellite line from your DP+44 switch to your 921 to connect both tuners.

[leemathre]

Thanks for the update Mark. The info about support for the DPP44 is good news. I have both a 721 and a 921. With this new switch I should be able to get rid of a couple of runs.

[Mike D-CO5]

I had heard of a new dishpro plus lnb that will do the same thing as the new DPP44 switch does now, would be coming. I am more interested in the DPP lnb for doing this. I don't really care for external switches. I already have the terk ota antenna clip on to my dish and have the cables run into that , I really don't want to try to figure out how to run a switch in to that on top of the terk ota antenna switch.

I wonder when the DPP lnb will be coming out?

[DonLandis]

"4. Fixes for OTA channel losses (ie "Channel Not Found..." messages."

That's correct for the message, but I still have no channel 10-1, nor channel 13-1. These stations do not send PSIP. I used to have them but now, after L186, while I can scan and add them the screen is just blank, no sound. They do list as locked and good signal. They used to list as a channel number only but were not remapped to another channel. The 10-1 and 13-1 are DT frequency assignments and are ABC and NBC respectively.

Mark- Can you find out whether PSIP is now a requirement to receive OTA channels on the 921? Seems odd that these two channels were the ones with the problem of being lost with L186 and those are the only stations here not sending PSIP. I will be contacting our local engineer about this as well.

[onethree]

I have a similar problem after 186. Channel 34 KOCB OKC DT 33 does not send PSIP info and I can not view this channel. Signal strength is 125 and is locked and acquired but no picture.

[Jerry G]

Just got this in early this morning. Here's the official release notes for L186:

4. Fixes for OTA channel losses (ie "Channel Not Found..." messages.




Well, it must be this "fix" that broke my ability to tune KTTV in Los Angeles. It can be added to the guide, it does broadcast PSIP, but when tuned to, I get the message that the channel can't be found. I know that another user indicated he can receive this channel. I used to be able to tune to it. But 186 took care of that. Must be something unique to my machine that allowed this station to break while another user's ability to get this station didn't break with 186. Time for a new 921 to replace this unit that is already a replacement for the first unit I had.

[Mike123abc]

Just got this in early this morning. Here's the official release notes for L186:

1. Support added for the DishPro+44 switch.

2. Support added for a cascaded DishPro 34/DishPro 21 switch configuration and for a cascaded DishPro+44/DishPro 21 switch configuration.


IF you cascade a DP21 and DP+44 does that give you 5 satellites now? If so that would solve just about every possible problem at this time (i.e. someone that needs 121 for locals/international, 119, 110, 61.5 sky angel, 148/105 for locals).

Does the support also include the splitter? So, we can just run one line from the DPP44 to the 921 now and use the DPP splitter?

[Mark Lamutt]

The splitter wasn't specifically mentioned in the release notes that I was sent, but I would assume that the splitter is also supported now.

And I would also assume that the cascaded DPP44 and DP21 is for a 5 sat configuration. I personally don't have any of this equipment, so I can't confirm or deny.

[Mike123abc]

Anyway you can get clarification on the splitter (I ordered one anyways, but it would be nice to know before it gets here, I plan on moving the second sat feed to a different reciever once the splitter works)?

[Mark Lamutt]

Messages away. I'll let you know what I hear back.

[rbyers]

Well, it must be this "fix" that broke my ability to tune KTTV in Los Angeles. It can be added to the guide, it does broadcast PSIP, but when tuned to, I get the message that the channel can't be found. I know that another user indicated he can receive this channel. I used to be able to tune to it. But 186 took care of that. Must be something unique to my machine that allowed this station to break while another user's ability to get this station didn't break with 186. Time for a new 921 to replace this unit that is already a replacement for the first unit I had.

Jerry, I get digital Fox11 just fine. Are you talking about fox digital or analog. I have a similar problem with Ch 2-1, but it works if I try to access it from another OTA channel. One problem with the 921 seems to be that channel access is slow. My MITS box was much quicker. The 921 timeout seems to be a little to short. KCET seems to be one of the quicker responding channels. Try accessing Fox from KCET.

[pculley]

I'm glad some fixes were implemented; I vote for a couple of usability fixes next (as well as further robustness fixes).

1) fix the tuner conflict code so we can do something else after starting a manual record on an OTA channel.
2) fix the favorites so we can add OTA.

[HD921]

I'm glad some fixes were implemented; I vote for a couple of usability fixes next (as well as further robustness fixes).

1) fix the tuner conflict code so we can do something else after starting a manual record on an OTA channel.
2) fix the favorites so we can add OTA.

I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. I think this forum has a bunch of winers. Everyone was talking about puliing the plug and smart for the 186 upgrade all I did after the software downloaded and I was ready to turn in is turn the reciever off next morning when I turned it on 186 upgrade was installed without any problems. I think most people are to impatient.

[jsanders]

I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. I think this forum has a bunch of winers. Everyone was talking about puliing the plug and smart for the 186 upgrade all I did after the software downloaded and I was ready to turn in is turn the reciever off next morning when I turned it on 186 upgrade was installed without any problems. I think most people are to impatient.

I'm glad you had a pleasant experience! I would also be happy to trade experiences with you.

I have pemanently lost a number of channels after the L186 release. How is that being impatient? How many days should I wait to try to get them back? Are you telling me that this message board, with a charter of logging bug reports shouldn't exist because it encourages what you are calling whining? Maybe you meant we drink too much wine by calling us "winers", you should check your spelling and punctuation.

The purpose of this board to to describe problems, and provide feedback.

[Jerry G]

I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. I think this forum has a bunch of winers. Everyone was talking about puliing the plug and smart for the 186 upgrade all I did after the software downloaded and I was ready to turn in is turn the reciever off next morning when I turned it on 186 upgrade was installed without any problems. I think most people are to impatient.

I think it's marvelous, fabulous, fantastic, extraordinary, and just heavenly that you have a perfectly satisfyingly 921 and that you're at peace with the world and everything else because of your blissful state.

After over 6 months, I still can't receive some of my local OTA DTV channels that every other STB I've had receives without difficulty. After over 6 months, I still can't record our local PBS. I guess you were so lucky that you never lost a timer with the previous software versions, unlike so many of the rest of us. But I guess we're just whiners who are terrible people for expecting basic functionality in a $1000 machine after 6 months of waiting.

BTW, "to impatient" is incorrect. It's "too impatient". With more time and patience, you'll learn the difference between "to", "too", and "two". Have a nice day.

[DonLandis]

"I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. "

ROFLMAO! You know what's so funny? I believe you just earned the title of the first member of the "921 head" or "HD921" for short. I hereby nominate you as the 921 poster child.

Hey, all kidding aside, do you really believe that we accept you use your 921 and haven't experienced any malfunction? Maybe you meant you don't experince ALL the problems but do experience, say, 90% of them. I think most of us have had some range of issues but none have had them all in one receiver either.

[sgt940]

Mark, last week you made the comments you had a lot more to say about the OTA situations but could not talk about it until this week. Well this week is almost over so out of curosity can you talk about it? I would be interested to hear what your thoughts were last week.

[jsa_usenet]

Now that the 921 has support of the DP+44 switch, what do people
recommend as the "optimal" three receiver, three sat configuration,
with two of the receivers requiring either two feeds or one DP+44-type feed?

[tm22721]

I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. I think this forum has a bunch of winers. Everyone was talking about puliing the plug and smart for the 186 upgrade all I did after the software downloaded and I was ready to turn in is turn the reciever off next morning when I turned it on 186 upgrade was installed without any problems. I think most people are to impatient.

You have got to be kidding, or a troll...

[Anthony Falcone]

I've had my 921 only for about a week with no problems so far . BUT, I haven't hooked up the OTA yet and don't need to for a while . I seem to see fewer posts about missed timers, need to reboot, etc.

Are most of the problems still to do mainly with OTA ?

[boylehome]

I live in Redding California. We have five OTA digital Channels, but two at a great distance. ABC, PBS, and FOX are close with a strong signal. Respective to the 921 and the L186, ABC is a strong 125 but remains unlocked. NBC and CBS are distant stations. NBC and CBS peak at about 70. The signal locks but upon viewing, the picture quality is pixelated and audio garbles. PBS is perfect. FOX is very good. All but ABC include PSIP. I believe that ABC wont lock simply because the local affiliate does not use PSIP. Here is a NAB web site specifically related to PSIP. http://www.nab.org/scitech/psip/default.asp. Ialso have a Model 6000. It works perfefctly for all five OTA's!

[boylehome]

I've have very poor luck when trying to add OTA Digital channels with the, ADD DTV" feature. I can enter the channel number then the system freezes and I have to reboot. Any way to fix or get around this problem?

[Eagles]

I've have very poor luck when trying to add OTA Digital channels with the, ADD DTV" feature. I can enter the channel number then the system freezes and I have to reboot. Any way to fix or get around this problem?


Did you try the "SCAN DTV" option? If the receiver is getting a strong enough signal to lock during the scan (channels 14-69) it will add all channels and list them in your local channel screen. !pride

[Mark Lamutt]

What I wanted to say last week was that a number of the OTA fixes that have been done over the last couple of months have now been released in L186 to everyone. Obviously, based on the trouble that a lot of you are having with the fixes, there is still a good amount of work to be done. But, you're all now at the same OTA level that I've been at for the last 5 weeks. I haven't had ANY OTA problems in that time period. I suspect the reason is that there has been a contingent of Eldon people here in Denver for the last few months now working very hard on the OTA side. They have it working pretty well now based on the Denver stations. Just have to get to to work as well in all of the other markets (which I really did think was going to be the case with this one).

[DonLandis]

Boylehome-

Respect to L186-

Same here but I have not had a 921 system lock up. It may appear to lock up but if I wait it will respond to last command. Sometimes that wait was over 3 minutes! Therefore, I don't believe the 921 has crashed but has just slowed down to a crawl. Hey, I have some computers that do this and it's time to reboot but they just sit there and eventually come alive and execute the last mouse click.

What I noticed is that this slow response during the add OTA channels was relieved after I did the:
1. Power plug reboot
2. Pull the smart card while the power was pulled.
3. Plugged back in
4. Inserted the Smart card
5. retry to add the channels.

After this procedure I saw an instant improvement to response time. I still cannot add two of my (non PSIP) stations. They have strong signal at 115 to 122 now but remain red and unlocked. For a moment when they did lock to green I saved the entry and then they appear in the list and now in my guide. BUT, I get a blank screen and no messade when I tune to them.

Again, All this as a result of L186. L185 had my OTA near perfect so, IMO, Eldon broke what was working for me.

[DonLandis]

Mark- Therein lies the crux of the problem with the Eldon / E* mindset. Hopefully you just did not explain their whole program but to think that Denver is representative of the stations around the nation is just wrong.
I suggest you take an inventory for your friends from England:
List for them the following:
1. Stations that transmit 1080i, 720P
2. Stations with sub channels vs. stations with no subchannels
3. Stations with PSIP vs, Stations without PSIP
4. Stations with DD5.1 vs, stations without DD5.1
5. Stations with -2 subchannels and no -1 present.
6. Stations with low power vs, high power
7. Stations that switch their subchannels format, as in 480i part of the day and 1080i another part.
8. Stations that seem fine but do not have any DVR functionality
9. Stations with severe multipath


How many of the above can be represented among the Denver stations? If any are missing the Eldon team will need to test in the cities with the mention signal variation. If they can't then they will not be able to know for sure if they have successfully arrested all the reported station variations. The Eldon Britts need to understand our 21st century broadcast system in the US which is mostly unregulated and allows stations to legally transmit all sorts of signal variances. The 921, to be bug free, needs to work in all these environments. If Eldon thinks they can come to Denver and resolve the issues this nation of 921 owners are reporting they they are very naive. Help them to understand the problem they are faced with and that once they can get issues resolved in Denver, their work has just begun.

Mark, at this point you have done your job in Denver, Now it's time that the 921 development team and E* consider beta testers in cities that are still reporting issues from certain stations. They need to identify the problems to be corrected, locate where those problems are being reported from, and then, appoint a reporting user / volunteer to gather station information and run structured tests they outline, IN THAT BROADCAST MARKET.

[Mark Lamutt]

Don, actually to be honest, Denver stations cover all of your above points except for #8. That's why I keep coming back to the inconsistencies in broadcast station streams around the country. It is definitely a problem with the 921 in that the 921 can't yet deal with all of the inconsistencies that it's getting thrown at it with the hundreds of variations on the standards that it's trying to deal with. Of course it should be able to, as many other receivers on the market can, but it can't yet. That's, in my opinion, partially a result of development in England rather than here. BUT, even if it had been developed here, I would bet that it would be having at least some of the OTA problems still. The HDTivo is an excellent example of that with the OTA problems it also is having.

Don, I didn't mean to imply that there are no testers in other markets, and that Denver is used as the model for pefect OTA reception. Far from it...They've been here working on the OTA stuff because they have a built-in base of operations here in Denver.

There are quite a few 921 testers. I don't know where they all are located around the country, but I've been pushing from this side to get some new testers lined up in the specific markets that are having the most problems. There's 5 or 6 markets that are having major problems (most or all of OTA stations not working), and then another 15 or so identified that are having more minor problems (one or a few OTA stations not working). At least the major problem markets need to be covered by the beta team. They may be now, and the beta testers just aren't doing their job, or there may be holes in the testing locales. I don't know the answer to that one.

[Mark Lamutt]

I have updated the original post in this thread with an addition to the release notes. L186 does support the DP+ separator as well. (Sorry Simon :blush: )

[Jerry G]

That's why I keep coming back to the inconsistencies in broadcast station streams around the country. It is definitely a problem with the 921 in that the 921 can't yet deal with all of the inconsistencies that it's getting thrown at it with the hundreds of variations on the standards that it's trying to deal with. Of course it should be able to, as many other receivers on the market can, but it can't yet. That's, in my opinion, partially a result of development in England rather than here.

I'm willing to guess that there are overall only a few issues with the various problematic OTA stations that would account for the vast majority of the 921's OTA reception and recording problems. So, isn't it time for the Eldon engineers to pack up the van with whatever equipment they need and go on a road trip to perhaps 4 cities with problematic OTA stations.

They should come to Los Angeles and find out why our PBS station can't be recorded. They can find out why UPN, which doesn't have PSIP information, can be detected with a high signal strength, but not added to the OTA list. They can find out why KOCE can be detected and added to the list, but produces a black screen when tuned in.

Do this with a few other cities with different problems and the 921 will be nearly there as a competent OTA receiver, with it isn't at this point.

[BobMurdoch]

As one of the 921 apologists, I give E* more patience than I probably should. I believe that the promise of the receiver warrants giving the programmers the chance to get it right. Killing all demand for the receiver by destroying any positive comments about the unit merely makes them give up on improving it and then they move on to the next generation sooner than they would have and leave us early adopters behind.

That being said, we are starting to approach "original" Dishplayer (Should I start calling it Dishplayer Classic yet?) levels of headaches. I didn't realize that a new download had occurred, but I did notice yesterday that the names on my timers were wrong again (uh oh..... delete the timers, redo them... OK). Then I find out that the rebroadcast of the Charlie Chat (don't ask...... I was watching the Home Run Derby on ESPN and missed it live and wanted to see it for myself) only recorded for 5 minutes. It used to be that after a crash it would restart and start recording after only losing about 3 minutes during the reboot. I have to give a LITTLE leeway here as I had a babysitter using my TV at the time and maybe she hit the stop button trying to ditch the Charlie and Jim show.

This comes on top of HBO-HD failing to fire for Six Feet under last week AND my timer for Stargate Atlantis disappearing (I did a one time job for the two hour premiere). Six Feet Under was recorded on HBO-W when I realized I missed it (as I hit the record button at 11:57pm Sunday), but when I came back home Monday after work HBO-W was STILL recording. Luckily I had about 100 hours free so it didn't delete anything.

After I turned off the TV yesterday, I thought about my experience and went over and yanked the smart card and put it back in. I probably installed the new version then, I'll check tonight to see how it did.

When it works, it's jaw dropping. When it doesn''t it makes me feel like the bad ole days when I was keying in "Jenny" codes. The long reboot process doesn't help either. And I don't even use the OTA functionality (or lack thereof) yet.

C'Mon guys........ throw some more resources at this and get it fixed already.... Or at least to the point it was 3 months ago where I didn't have to watch it every day to make sure it wasn't pooching my timers......

[sgt940]

What I wanted to say last week was that a number of the OTA fixes that have been done over the last couple of months have now been released in L186 to everyone. Obviously, based on the trouble that a lot of you are having with the fixes, there is still a good amount of work to be done. But, you're all now at the same OTA level that I've been at for the last 5 weeks. I haven't had ANY OTA problems in that time period. I suspect the reason is that there has been a contingent of Eldon people here in Denver for the last few months now working very hard on the OTA side. They have it working pretty well now based on the Denver stations. Just have to get to to work as well in all of the other markets (which I really did think was going to be the case with this one).
Mark, I am in Dallas and was one who would loose 5 of the 7 OTAs I watch on every reboot. Here is the good news. I have turned the unit off every night and created multiple manual reboots and ALL 7 of the stations stay and perform flawlessly. What ever they did in 186 was a big improvment whether it was the ability to overcome station issues or what ever. Just for testing I did an auto scan and picked up 18 believe it or not digital stations. Of the 18 stations three had blank screens, quite frankly I have never heard of these three stations so they may not even be real. Of the 15 that locked in (again some religious and spanish channels I did not know were out there) I put them through multiple reboots, of the 15 only one channel disapperared 68 (PAX) again a channel I was not familiar with. Right now I am a happy camper in the OTA area as I have 14 digital stations that are rock solid. Give me OTA guide data of any kind and fix the favorites list and I might just reccomend this box to others. On another note I had no issues with the download but I did plug it in and let it load the new software for about an hour before attempting to use.
An update, apparantly 68 may have been off the air as it came back on its own. Which means all 15 stations are stable.

[sgt940]

Mark- Therein lies the crux of the problem with the Eldon / E* mindset. Hopefully you just did not explain their whole program but to think that Denver is representative of the stations around the nation is just wrong.
I suggest you take an inventory for your friends from England:
List for them the following:
1. Stations that transmit 1080i, 720P
2. Stations with sub channels vs. stations with no subchannels
3. Stations with PSIP vs, Stations without PSIP
4. Stations with DD5.1 vs, stations without DD5.1
5. Stations with -2 subchannels and no -1 present.
6. Stations with low power vs, high power
7. Stations that switch their subchannels format, as in 480i part of the day and 1080i another part.
8. Stations that seem fine but do not have any DVR functionality
9. Stations with severe multipath


How many of the above can be represented among the Denver stations? If any are missing the Eldon team will need to test in the cities with the mention signal variation. If they can't then they will not be able to know for sure if they have successfully arrested all the reported station variations. The Eldon Britts need to understand our 21st century broadcast system in the US which is mostly unregulated and allows stations to legally transmit all sorts of signal variances. The 921, to be bug free, needs to work in all these environments. If Eldon thinks they can come to Denver and resolve the issues this nation of 921 owners are reporting they they are very naive. Help them to understand the problem they are faced with and that once they can get issues resolved in Denver, their work has just begun.

Mark, at this point you have done your job in Denver, Now it's time that the 921 development team and E* consider beta testers in cities that are still reporting issues from certain stations. They need to identify the problems to be corrected, locate where those problems are being reported from, and then, appoint a reporting user / volunteer to gather station information and run structured tests they outline, IN THAT BROADCAST MARKET.
I still do not understand why the TV manufactures have no issues, is it because thier tunners are hardware based verses software based?

[Slordak]

My significant other showed me an interesting issue she had with L186 on the 921 when I came home from work yesterday. It was something which neither she nor I had seen previously.

She uses the "Recall" button a lot to switch back and forth between two channels, and this generally works fine. But somehow the receiver seemed to have gotten itself into a state where the "Recall" button was acting oddly. It appeared that the button was causing the 921 to cycle between three stations, not just back and forth between two. I didn't really have time to take a long look at it, since I was going out again, but I told her to yank the power cord to see if that helped. Not sure if she took my suggestion, though. Very odd.

[rrg]

Late last night I tried to use my 921 for the first time since L186 and found it essentially non-functional. Any attempt to view, add, or check the signal strength on any OTA station (including strong locals that are received without problems on all my other equipment) would lock up the unit fairly thoroughly, requiring a reboot. The guide could (sometimes) be called up, but could not be used to tune to any channels. Time-of-day reported in banners would vary from correct, to some date in April, to several minutes slow. Crazy corruption of a sort I've never seen (in particular) on the 921 before.

It was after midnight and I didn't have a lot of time to continue messing with it. When I next have some time I suppose I'll try power-cycling again (and again) to see what effect that has.

I've never had such an unpleasant experience with a piece of consumer electronics, even including the early version of the 169Time-modified DTC-100 which, for all its faults, was still a more reliable recording solution than the 921 has proved to be.

I have no a priori axe to grind with any DBS provider; I have them all, and have for years. I've been recording HD for four years. Most of my HD recordings were made with the Dish 5000/Panasonic STB combo. But I continue to be astonished that Echostar would release such a seriously-flawed product, and even more astonished that more than six months after its initial release it's still so badly flawed.

I have the DirecTV HR10-250 ("the almighty HD TiVO") and have very few complaints with it. It is without a doubt the most convenient, reliable, and user-friendly HD recording solution of all those I've tried over the past few years. If it weren't for its lack of archive capability it would be (after a disk upgrade) all I would require in an HD recording solution. The 921 is not in its league.

[dishbacker]

Mark, I am in Dallas .... Right now I am a happy camper in the OTA area as I have 14 digital stations that are rock solid. Give me OTA guide data of any kind and fix the favorites list and I might just reccomend this box to others. On another note I had no issues with the download but I did plug it in and let it load the new software for about an hour before attempting to use.

sgt940, do you have any problem getting channel 27.1, KDFI (ATSC 36)? I can't seem to get it at my house and didn't know if it was an antenna issue or a station issue.

[DonLandis]

Mark- Thanks for the clarification on Denver station problems as well as the cuurent plan for Eldon to resolve the issues. I do hope they get some additional test sites that are particular problem areas. Obviously LA is a big one and I believe Atlanta is too but E* has an operation in Atlanta that I have an inside contact with.

As for Jacksonville, the 921 only really had one issue with OTA malfunction through L185. With L186 I now have 2 issues. So, while I reported Jacksonville seems to have about every flavor of creative signal concoction from the local stations, the problems I had with the 921 were small. L186 added one but this is why They need to quickly recover from L186 and what that broke with respect to the two channels without PSIP. Others have reported the exact same problem with stations lacking PSIP.
AS for the station lacking DVR function, I will soon, hopefully be able to provide some valuable data on that. But for now here is what I can offer. While the signal is strong on the 921, that station doesn't even exist on the HDTIVO! Isn't that interesting? I will be adding a 19db amplifier to the antenna this weekend to do some experimenting. I want to learn why one station is completely invisible to the HDTIVO and is strong on the 921 but no DVR. This one has me stumped. But, overall all signals on the HDTIVO are very weak compared to those I get on: VOOM, 921, DTC-100, Panny DST50. Hopefully the new professional grade weinguard amp I picked up today will bring the signals up to par for the weak HDTIVO and of that overdrives the others I will insert 10db pads as necessary for those receivers.

I know many around the country continued to have problems with OTA and 921 while I was enjoying very few if only one minor problem; and, a few have even claimed L186 improved their situation. For me, I need for Eldon to quickly respond to what it was they ruined in L186 causing me and many others around the country to lose channels that lack PSIP we had since the beginning.

[DonLandis]

"I still do not understand why the TV manufactures have no issues, is it because thier tunners are hardware based verses software based?"

I'll take a stab at this one-
First of all I don't accept the premis that they don't have issues as I have not examined all TV Manufacturers' digital tuners in the new Digital TV sets.
But if I assume that IS true then I would say it has to do with the fact that it is DVR related on many problems, e.g. all those where timers must fire, ability to have a signal in the clear that can be recorded, and finally, have the receiver perform proper remapping. When it comes to tuner sensitivity and selectivity, multipath rejection and such, I feel most of the latest technology will be superior to that developed 3 years ago. The tuners in the 921 were developed 3 years ago and the HDTIVO about 18 month ago, making them inferior to state of the art tuner design developed 4-6 months ago. Guide issues are a separate discussion.

When it comes to having a station trouble free and then new software comes down the pipe and now it can't get passed a red bar in the meter to save the channel, that has to be software trouble. Obviously I can't speculate on the code involved but my guess is that when you add the numbers in the channel box, the software is now instructed do a calculation as to what the PSIP says will be the remap channel number (assuming PSIP is present) In the case of the missing PSIP, the software execution stops at that point because it doesn't know where to go without that information. I would not be surprised if a code writer simply broke a line of "If then, else" instruction escape logic in the original software-
in detail- If PSIP, then remap, else enter DT channel in guide and tune tuner to DT channel. Based on the symptoms I can easily see, a code line like this may have been disrupted in the rewrite. Somewhere the cde wants to do a remap channel number for guide but the lack of PSIP, it doesn't know where to go and that is why it chokes, comes to a complete internal loop as it is probably retesting the channel over and over looking for the PSIP. User observation- the 921 locked up! But in reality it is probably in an internal program loop.

[sgt940]

sgt940, do you have any problem getting channel 27.1, KDFI (ATSC 36)? I can't seem to get it at my house and didn't know if it was an antenna issue or a station issue.
Mine comes in perfect, it is one of my weaker signals at 87, but no issues at all. Have you noticed some of the UHF stations are broadcasting more HD content than the networks. Also channel 68 that seemed to have disapeared this morning came back on its own. I live in Corinth about 40 miles from the towers have a big channel master antenna and a Channel Master titan II amp. This combo gives me signals close to 100 on all stations. By the way 27 is broadcast 36 so you may want to add it mannually.

[markcollins]

Hey HD921-- 4 Months Huh?Well You must obviously have the only perfect software and hardware mated 921 produced.Try the Lotto with your luck.I myself am still waiting for the receiver I was led to believe I bought 8 months ago.By the way,do you like the over stretch,no local OTA guide,and constant loss of OTA channels?How bout that hard drive that runs constantly wearing itself out too?

[boylehome]

Did you try the "SCAN DTV" option? If the receiver is getting a strong enough signal to lock during the scan (channels 14-69) it will add all channels and list them in your local channel screen. !pride
Yes, system didin't crash. Most likely there is a bug in the
ADD DTV.

[dishbacker]

Mine comes in perfect, it is one of my weaker signals at 87, but no issues at all. Have you noticed some of the UHF stations are broadcasting more HD content than the networks. Also channel 68 that seemed to have disapeared this morning came back on its own. I live in Corinth about 40 miles from the towers have a big channel master antenna and a Channel Master titan II amp. This combo gives me signals close to 100 on all stations. By the way 27 is broadcast 36 so you may want to add it mannually.

Glad to hear. I went back out to antenna web today and previously it had my info listed at the zip2 level, and now it says street level. It seems my little valley won't get 27. If I put in one 10 houses down, that has about 30 ft of elevation on me, it lists channel 27. So, I'm gonna try adjusting my antenna some more, but not hold my breadth. Just didn't know if it was one of those 'non-PSIP' channels.

[DonLandis]

This evening I was doing a bit of recording beginning at 8PM. Recording two tuners OTA and one sat channel. I wanted to get "Da Ali G show marathon but after two recordings the next one failed to fire. Upon checking this out I discovered my 921 was rapidly losing sat channels again. It was really amazing watching the guide go red right before my eyes! After about 10 minutes, I had lost about 90% of all sat channels. Oh well, time for a smart card reboot again.
Pulled the smart card out, then reinserted. The 921 went through it's reboot and in 5 minutes, all my channels were back up.

Mark- Is it possible the new Dish Pro code is causing the legacy switches to malfunction in 921 software? I use an SW64. I'm trying to understand why I lose sat channels now. Back in June when the CSR messed with my account, I lost everything on the 6000 and the 921, but since L186, the loss of sat channels is just a 921 issue so I know it's not my account.

Regarding the PSIP issue on my two lost stations- I have it now confirmed from the CE at the station they do not use PSIP but will be adding it soon, he said. It was an e-mail answer to my phone call message and he didn't state when it would be.

[boylehome]

What I wanted to say last week was that a number of the OTA fixes that have been done over the last couple of months have now been released in L186 to everyone. Obviously, based on the trouble that a lot of you are having with the fixes, there is still a good amount of work to be done. But, you're all now at the same OTA level that I've been at for the last 5 weeks. I haven't had ANY OTA problems in that time period. I suspect the reason is that there has been a contingent of Eldon people here in Denver for the last few months now working very hard on the OTA side. They have it working pretty well now based on the Denver stations. Just have to get to to work as well in all of the other markets (which I really did think was going to be the case with this one).
Mark, I wonder if it is necessary for the broadcasters to include PSIP for the 921 to grab and lock the channel? I think that the OTA tuner, that is in the 921, may not be capable as it is the OTA tuner in the 6000.

[Anthony Falcone]

Don,

I have an SW64 (actually 2 cascaded) and it hasn't happened to mine. But, I'm also not using OTA yet and have only had the 921 for a couple of weeks .

[Jerry G]

Mark, I wonder if it is necessary for the broadcasters to include PSIP for the 921 to grab and lock the channel? I think that the OTA tuner, that is in the 921, may not be capable as it is the OTA tuner in the 6000.

I think that's a fairly good assumption. The stations I can't get in Los Angeles, don't have PSIP information. My 811 is able to deal with the lack of PSIP info, but the 921 doesn't seem to be able to.

However, the 921 even has problems with stations that do have PSIP. Some show a black screen. Others can be viewed, but the DVR functions don't work. There are clearly some very serious flaws with the OTA functionality of the 921 that exist over 6 months after it's release. The engineers really need to get to some of the cities with these problem stations and work them out already. The 921 honeymoon has long since passed and it's time for the 921 to perform it's basic functions correctly.

If I little more time passes without these OTA problems being resolved, I'll certainly be coming to the conclusion that they can't and won't be resolved. And it will be time to move on. Hopefully by that time the HD Tivo's problems will be resolved and DirecTV will be a viable alternative to Dish and it's crippled 921.

[sgt940]

I would add a channel master pre-amp to your antenna, you will need one that amplifys both UHF and VHF as channel 8 chose to broadcast HDTV on channel 9 the only HDTV station in Dallas not in the UHF range.

[JOlds]

I too had lots of trouble with my OTA channels after this update. First their screens were just blank and flipping between them would eventaully hang up the machine. Power-on and Smart card reboot didn't help. Deleting all the OTAs, then power-plug rebooting the machine, then manually adding the OTAs back seemed to do it. (BTW, the Scan DTV hung up the machine or come back with 1 non-sense digital channel).

Now after a day or so of fiddling, I'm pretty much back to where I was with 185. No caller ID still. No DTR functions on the ABC affiliate here in Atlanta (WSB Analog Channel 2). The SD subchannel on WTBS is still missing, but I suspect a local broadcast problem there.

John

L186HECD-N

[Kagato]

This release still has the timmer issues. Most of the time timmers kick off if the unit is turned "off". Sometimes the they kick when the unit is on watching Live TV. Usually they do not kick off if the unit is watching a timeshifted program.

Most annoying is the RED light. When there is an issue I've noticed many times the red light is on indicating a recording is happening, but when I check the DVR menu, nothing.

If there is one thing the 921 needs to do WELL is record the freak'n show!

Until then I'm calling customer server each month and asking for my $5 VOD fee back. Because the video is NOT on demand.

[onethree]

When 186 I lost KOCB WB 34 (33 ATSC). They were the only Oklahoma City station that was not sending PSIP information. As of yesterday they started sending PSIP information. My 921 which never did have a problem detecting the signal of 120 would not show a picture. Yesterday with the PSIP information it locked in, remaped and now it is viewable. It really seems that 186 made where the 921 has to have PSIP to tune the picture. Now if they could fix the two OTA locals that I have no PVR function on.

[boylehome]

When 186 I lost KOCB WB 34 (33 ATSC). They were the only Oklahoma City station that was not sending PSIP information. As of yesterday they started sending PSIP information. My 921 which never did have a problem detecting the signal of 120 would not show a picture. Yesterday with the PSIP information it locked in, remaped and now it is viewable. It really seems that 186 made where the 921 has to have PSIP to tune the picture. Now if they could fix the two OTA locals that I have no PVR function on.
Most excellent. It seems that the 921 have a very picky OTA tuner. I sure hope that my local ABC (34 ATSC) starts using PSIP so I can receive them. With things like Monday night football and other special HD events, I don't want to view them in SD.

[SimpleSimon]

I have updated the original post in this thread with an addition to the release notes. L186 does support the DP+ splitter as well.
Arrgghh! Please Mark, especially as the leader of this forum, please use the correct terminology so as not to confuse the newbies!

There is no such thing as a DP+ splitter. The DP+ SEPARATOR doesn't act like a splitter at all.

If it MUST be compared to something, (but it shouldn't!) it is somewhat like a diplexer, but still should never be referred to as such.

[Aaron]

"I think the 921 is a very reliable reciever. I have had mine 4 months and have yet to experience all the problems everyone is talking about. "

ROFLMAO! You know what's so funny? I believe you just earned the title of the first member of the "921 head" or "HD921" for short. I hereby nominate you as the 921 poster child.

Hey, all kidding aside, do you really believe that we accept you use your 921 and haven't experienced any malfunction? Maybe you meant you don't experince ALL the problems but do experience, say, 90% of them. I think most of us have had some range of issues but none have had them all in one receiver either.

I've had a 921 since January. My 921 went nuts (really, nutsy freaking crazy) after adding my OTA channels, screwing around with it I came to the conclusion that it was the auto-scanning process that was hosing it since I could manually add the channels and everything would work fine.

After that I just dropped the idea of getting HDTV OTA on the 921, and it's been working perfectly since. I'm very happy with it. I'd buy another one if anyone wants to sell one.

My only gripe is with echostar and the freaking color not lining up with the picture. I don't understand how I can be the only person bothered by it, but that seems to be the case.

[jsanders]

My only gripe is with echostar and the freaking color not lining up with the picture. I don't understand how I can be the only person bothered by it, but that seems to be the case.

Can you elaborate on "color not lining up" on your 921? It sounds like you are describing a convergence issue which is television related, not 921 related. But you never know. Can you post a picture of what you are seeing? What video output are you using on the 921, the DVI, or the component?

[Aaron]

Can you elaborate on "color not lining up" on your 921? It sounds like you are describing a convergence issue which is television related, not 921 related. But you never know. Can you post a picture of what you are seeing? What video output are you using on the 921, the DVI, or the component?

It's described in this thread.

It's not a convergence issue.

http://dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=27984

[JOBY]

I noticed this problem several months ago, mainly on SD sat channels. I saw the Blue or yellow line along the left side of light objects with dark backgrounds. Usually close ups of faces. But I have not noted the right hand side of the face bleeding over into the background. Probably just missed it.

This might ocasionaly be the fault of the source material. When I first got my 921, I used my Pany combo to record back up tapes of the OTA HD programs I watched just in case the 921 failed. I noticed the blue line to the left of a face on the 921 during an episode of Alies. I checked the pany tape at the same spot, and in this case it was there also.

[Aaron]

I noticed this problem several months ago, mainly on SD sat channels. I saw the Blue or yellow line along the left side of light objects with dark backgrounds. Usually close ups of faces. But I have not noted the right hand side of the face bleeding over into the background. Probably just missed it.

This might ocasionaly be the fault of the source material. When I first got my 921, I used my Pany combo to record back up tapes of the OTA HD programs I watched just in case the 921 failed. I noticed the blue line to the left of a face on the 921 during an episode of Alies. I checked the pany tape at the same spot, and in this case it was there also.

It's an artifact caused by the statmux Dish uses. No other provider has the same problem. It's very annoying on animated/cartoon material.

I'm dumbfounded by the fact that it doesn't seem to bother anyone but me. Purhaps it's not as noticible on smaller sets which have lower chroma resolution and/or poor convergence to start with.

[JOBY]

It's an artifact caused by the statmux Dish uses. No other provider has the same problem. It's very annoying on animated/cartoon material.

I'm dumbfounded by the fact that it doesn't seem to bother anyone but me. Purhaps it's not as noticible on smaller sets which have lower chroma resolution and/or poor convergence to start with.


If only dish has this problem then what did I see on the OTA panasonic recording of Alies?

I agree not many people are talking about it, but by my set is just a 65 inch Toshiba. I adjusted the manual and electronic focus and did the service level convergence, but It hasen't been color temperture adjusted by an ISF guy.

[Aaron]

If only dish has this problem then what did I see on the OTA panasonic recording of Alies?



Without seeing it myself, I couldn't tell you, sorry.

[PDR]

My significant other showed me an interesting issue she had with L186 on the 921 when I came home from work yesterday. It was something which neither she nor I had seen previously.

She uses the "Recall" button a lot to switch back and forth between two channels, and this generally works fine. But somehow the receiver seemed to have gotten itself into a state where the "Recall" button was acting oddly. It appeared that the button was causing the 921 to cycle between three stations, not just back and forth between two. I didn't really have time to take a long look at it, since I was going out again, but I told her to yank the power cord to see if that helped. Not sure if she took my suggestion, though. Very odd.

I have had a 921 for a few months now which has been very stable (fortunately, I can't receive any ota channeles so I have avoided all those issues). However, I have noticed the same thing with recall as your wife has. I assumed it was an "enhancement" rather than a bug. In any event, I like the ability to scroll through the 3 most recently viewed channels.

[srrobinson2]

June came and went. What's the new ETA (not that it really matters...) ?

[jsanders]

June came and went. What's the new ETA (not that it really matters...) ?

Not to mention that July came and will be gone in a few days too!

[audiomaster]

The owners manual says that you can hook either an antenna or a cable feed to the 921. But when I hook the cable up (Adelphia) and do an analog scan, I can't get the channels to come up. I don't expect to get the digital channels, just the 2-66 basic channels. Since I have to pay for cable to get a modem connection, I would like to be able to watch some of the government and local origination cable channels. Anyone have any experience with this? Is it a problem that will be fixed in future software?
It seems to me that the setup menu would need a "air/cable" selection checkbox as most VCRs and TVs have so it could tune the right set of frequencies.
The local installer that brought and hooked this thing up is clueless. I'm not even sure he knows what this thing is supposed to do. Don't these guys ever go to school on this stuff? :mad:

I am also looking for a signal converter that will let me use my computer 15 pin output signal into a standard three wire "component" input so I can switch it using the component jacks on my Sunfire receiver. Any one have any suggestions?

[boylehome]

The owners manual says that you can hook either an antenna or a cable feed to the 921. But when I hook the cable up (Adelphia) and do an analog scan, I can't get the channels to come up. I don't expect to get the digital channels, just the 2-66 basic channels. Since I have to pay for cable to get a modem connection, I would like to be able to watch some of the government and local origination cable channels. Anyone have any experience with this? Is it a problem that will be fixed in future software?
It seems to me that the setup menu would need a "air/cable" selection checkbox as most VCRs and TVs have so it could tune the right set of frequencies.
The local installer that brought and hooked this thing up is clueless. I'm not even sure he knows what this thing is supposed to do. Don't these guys ever go to school on this stuff? :mad:

I am also looking for a signal converter that will let me use my computer 15 pin output signal into a standard three wire "component" input so I can switch it using the component jacks on my Sunfire receiver. Any one have any suggestions?
The model 6000 has the ability to do Cable channels unlike the 921. You would think that for the cost of the 921, it would be able to convert cable and more!!!!!

[Bogney]

It seems to me that the setup menu would need a "air/cable" selection checkbox as most VCRs and TVs have so it could tune the right set of frequencies.
Channels 2 through 13 should be the same frequencies in "air" or "cable" mode. There could be a problem with the 921 if it can not tune these channels and a seperate analog TV can from the same cable.

[audiomaster]

Channels 2 through 13 should be the same frequencies in "air" or "cable" mode. There could be a problem with the 921 if it can not tune these channels and a seperate analog TV can from the same cable.
I think the scan brought up 10 channels the first time I tried and then 13 the next time. They WERE the lower channels, not the ones I wanted to watch. Is this another "BUG", or intentional implementation of another "non feature"?

I would really hate to be a Dish Network dealer trying to get these things to work! Must be phones ringing off the hook at the offices. And the fact that I still cannot control the HD/SD output with infrared commands means I cannot watch a movie in the bedroom via my modulator unless I set the 921 to SD before I go to bed.

[Mike123abc]

...the fact that I still cannot control the HD/SD output with infrared commands means I cannot watch a movie in the bedroom via my modulator unless I set the 921 to SD before I go to bed.

Why not use the UHF remote that came with it? Or order a second one, http://www.dishstore.net carrries them http://www.dishstore.net/product_info.php?cPath=26&products_id=122

I keep one in my bedroom... I turn on the TV hear the sound then press the SD/HD button.

[DonLandis]

I use my MX-800 with a HD/SD programmed into it from my 6000 remote. I use it all the time. The only use I have for the original UHF 921 remote is when I set it up to play serius music outside and I want to channel up/down from the pool deck.

[Jorge Velez]

Hi guys!!!

Even though I’m an existing Dishnetwork subscriber using a 508 DVR, I’m really new to all this HD discussion between the 921 and the DirecTV HDTivo. I want to upgrade to HTDV, but who is really winning this entire race? I have been reading for hours about this “OTA” situation, disastrous upgrades and not seeing an end or solution to these issues in the near future. So, I have some doubts and questions. For example, if I have paid for the local package channels through Dishnetwork and I want to watch those paid channels on HD, can I watch them through this local package with the 921 and avoid this OTA issue altogether? or those will be on the standard resolution and I will have install an external antenna to watch them on HD? and then maybe having to deal with this whole OTA issue? I asked this question to the people of Dishnetwork directly, and they said I would able to watch HD with my local package, but I want to get this information from you…people that are users just like me. I would more than happy to stay with Dishnetwork, and not convert to DirectTV, but what side is really winning and improving constantly right now?

Thank you for your time, guys!!!

[Bogney]

For example, if I have paid for the local package channels through Dishnetwork and I want to watch those paid channels on HD, can I watch them through this local package with the 921 and avoid this OTA issue altogether? or those will be on the standard resolution and I will have install an external antenna to watch them on HD? You will need an OTA antenna to get the networks in HD. The only exception is CBS which is available from the satellite if you live in selected areas.

[jsanders]

You will need an OTA antenna to get the networks in HD. The only exception is CBS which is available from the satellite if you live in selected areas.

That is basically the same with DirecTV as well. They offer a national CBS-HD feed too, and fox, which people have called faux because they say it is HD when it is really only 480p (DVD quality). Fox is moving to a better format in the fall.

Dish offers the HD pack (TNT-HD, DiscoveryHD, HDNet, HDNet movies, ESPN-HD) for $9.99/mo.

DirecTV offers their HD pack (DiscoveryHD, HDNet, HDNet movies, ESPN-HD) for $10.99/mo.

They both offer HBO and Showtime HD channels when you subscribe to HBO/Showtime packages.

With Dish you can opt out of the basic programming (AT60, AT120, everything pack, etc..), with a $5/mo maintenance charge added. With direcTV you can't. DirecTVs smallest package is bigger than Dish's, so if you don't want the basic programming, DirecTV will cost you more.

Personally, I get all of my locals over the air, I dropped the sd programming, I subscribed to the HD pack, and I subscribe to the CBS-HD which makes it like a dual OTA tuner for me. I can record CSI HD, and watch or record something on NBC at the same time.

This route is cheap and offers a lot of bang for the buck. But that is something that fits my own personal viewing habits well, ie., no SD stuff.

[Jorge Velez]

Does anyone know how the OTA situation is in the Boston area? Any beta testers in this area? It seems the issues are worse in some areas than in others.

[jgerow]

Does anyone know how the OTA situation is in the Boston area? Any beta testers in this area? It seems the issues are worse in some areas than in others.

I'm not a beta tester, but I am experienced with the both OTA Boston situation with Dish receivers. Other than occasional upgrades like channel 25 is going through, or the adding of new channels (e.g. RI), things have been very stable in Boston. The trick is to give the OTA receiver a clean [but not necessarily strong] signal free of both multipath and interference.
And we do have access to a bunch of OTA digital channels, ref:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?postid=3543688#post3543688

The 921 is one of the better digital OTA tuners.... I getting Boston, Worcester, New Hampshire, and Rhode Island channels just fine. Indeed there are more issues with the broadcasters scrambling to get their encoders/transmitters/towers "tweaked" in.

The only outstanding issue for me (introduced with the L186 firmware) is the
loss of [the low-rate subchannel] 005-2 on the nightly re-boot. (Interesting that the main, 005-1 is used for a daily timer, and records just fine.) The work-around when I want to watch 005-2 is I just have to do a "Add DTV" of physical channel 20. [not too big of a deal since the nightly re-boot part of L186 is only temporary; 005-2 is no longer has weather radar but as switched to ABC news]

Note with my Model 6000 with the 8VSB I have always had to "play games" doing channel up/down several times to get a picture for 005-2. [is a long standing and still un-resolved issue with Dish].

Note: isn't just Dish either... Samsung just recently sent out a firmware update for my SIR-T165 receiver. (Fixed the broadcast flag issue, but didn't fix the notorious timer issue.)

--Jim

FYI: For Boston area station "trials and tribulations", please go to the avs forum's "Status of Boston DTV Tower" thread: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28454

[Jorge Velez]

Thanks a lot, Jim!!! I really didn’t want to jump into this without more information available and this is really what I needed. :)

[JackS]

I have essentially the same experience except I have to re-add channel 7 (NBC) every day as well.

[jsa_usenet]

I moved before 1.86 was downloaded. Packed the 921 in a box and changed coasts.

Prior to downloading 1.86, I installed a new DPP44 switch and I'm using one RG6 feed with the separator.

It appears to be downloading... then it seems to get interrupted. Do you guys think I should plug in an old SW21 for a while until this thing gets downloaded?

-j

[SimpleSimon]

I moved before 1.86 was downloaded. Packed the 921 in a box and changed coasts.

Prior to downloading 1.86, I installed a new DPP44 switch and I'm using one RG6 feed with the separator.

It appears to be downloading... then it seems to get interrupted. Do you guys think I should plug in an old SW21 for a while until this thing gets downloaded?

-j
An SW21 will NOT work with DishPro equipment - which you must have or the DPP44 simply can not work.

Or maybe I just identified your problem?

[jsa_usenet]

I wish... Ok, it turns out that a 1.85 921 *will download* 1.86 hooked into a DPP44 switch and a separator.

However, once it comes back up on 1.86, it will not support the separator, and will hang up until you attach two feeds to it directly. It does support the DPP44 quite nicely, but not the separator.

An SW21 will NOT work with DishPro equipment - which you must have or the DPP44 simply can not work.

Or maybe I just identified your problem?

[wonderlamb]

Don't bother with the 921. I too waited and did allot of research on these boards. The final consensus was that the unit had problems but was mostly ok. I have had MANY problems: lockups, failed recording timers, random recording times that won't stop without a reboot, etc. I have had it, the unit is going back to the vendor.

- Mark West

>>Even though I’m an existing Dishnetwork subscriber using a 508 DVR, I’m really new to all this HD discussion between the 921 and the DirecTV HDTivo. I want to upgrade to HTDV, but who is really winning this entire race?

[jsa_usenet]

A friend of mine has the HD-Tivo and I have the 921. We compare notes from time to time. Lately, the "user experience" i'm having is better than his.

It can depend on a number of factors, but since 1.86 my experience has been much better than I would have expected, and I quite enjoy using it, to the point that I purchased a second one.

Don't bother with the 921. I too waited and did allot of research on these boards. The final consensus was that the unit had problems but was mostly ok. I have had MANY problems: lockups, failed recording timers, random recording times that won't stop without a reboot, etc. I have had it, the unit is going back to the vendor.

- Mark West

>>Even though I’m an existing Dishnetwork subscriber using a 508 DVR, I’m really new to all this HD discussion between the 921 and the DirecTV HDTivo. I want to upgrade to HTDV, but who is really winning this entire race?

[boylehome]

A friend of mine has the HD-Tivo and I have the 921. We compare notes from time to time. Lately, the "user experience" i'm having is better than his.

It can depend on a number of factors, but since 1.86 my experience has been much better than I would have expected, and I quite enjoy using it, to the point that I purchased a second one.
I agree with you. I've gotten varied reports on the HDTIVO as well. Our 921 do have bugs. Can't wait until they get them fixed. I would really like the OTA channel issues to get resolved.