When will Dish Network get NFL SUnday Ticket?

[salman121]

It sucks that Dish Network does not carry all NFL games. Does anybody know when would it be possible if ever?

Also, if you try to subscribe a local channel from another city to watch your favorite NFL team (wthout cancelling your own local channel), you have to get a waiver from yur local chanel which is almost impossible to get.

[rcbridge]

Direct TV has it locked up for awhile, if you really want it switch over!!

[shilton]

It sucks that Dish Network does not carry all NFL games. Does anybody know when would it be possible if ever?


As much as Charlie tries to watch the bottom line, my guess is NEVER. He already openly speaks of the high costs of ESPN and has made comments on chats about the high costs of the NFL Network which does not even run games. I think you will not see NFL Sunday ticket because it'd just be too damn expensive and raise costs to all subs.

[scooper]

If you want NFL Sunday Ticket - switch to DirectTv. End of discussion.

[Geronimo]

Last year was the first year of a five year deal. Sunday ticket is exclusive to DirecTV for 2 more years. there is then a two year window in which it can be sold to cable companies but not another satellite provider. It is not coming to DISH anytime soon.

[Jason Nipp]

It sucks that Dish Network does not carry all NFL games. Does anybody know when would it be possible if ever?
It was possible...But the E*/D* merge didn't happen... :sure:

Jason

[TonyM]

Direct has exclusivity until 2006 and satellite exclusivity until 2007

[garypen]

It was possible...But the E*/D* merge didn't happen... :sure:

Jason
Luckily.

[Jason Nipp]

Luckily.
Did Rupert and Charlie hate each other prior to the talks? :D

[garypen]

I think both are widely hated by a variety of broadcast and content industry insiders, in addition to regular Joe Blows on the street. In some ways, they are like magnets of the same polarity. As such, they repel each other.

[SimpleSimon]

As much as Charlie tries to watch the bottom line, my guess is NEVER. He already openly speaks of the high costs of ESPN and has made comments on chats about the high costs of the NFL Network which does not even run games. I think you will not see NFL Sunday ticket because it'd just be too damn expensive and raise costs to all subs.
NFL Sunday Ticket would NOT "raise costs for all subs". It's a premium package just like HBO, Showtime, etc. and is self-supporting money-wise.

[larrystotler]

Maybe it would raise them. Think about it. D* gives away their top pack for new subs who sign on with the sunday ticket. And, when they were fighting over it last time, the bidding got to about $2billion, and Dish said D* could have it. I believe D* has it until 2008, from my understanding. And E* basically wanted to buy D* to get all 96 transponders on all 3 sats more than anything else. IF the FCC allows the center slots, they could make a dish that could get the 101/110/119, and another to get the 96.5/105.5/114.5, and they shouldn't have too much bleed. E* really screw up when they took over the 110, because the should have swapped D*'s 3 for 3 on the 119. Would have been better all the way around. :(

[drjake]

The fact of the matter is that the Sunday Ticket does affect the pricing for all Directv packages. The cost of the contract outstrips the revenues received from Sunday Ticket subscribers. Directv uses it as a loss leader to get more customers. It is also a great advertising tool. It is very simplistic and wrong to argue that since it is a premium package, it will not affect the cost of other packages. The shortfall on the cost has to be recovered somewhere.

[garypen]

The cost of the contract outstrips the revenues received from Sunday Ticket subscribers. You know this for a fact? I guess you have some hard numbers to arrive at this conclusion. Please share.

[cclement]

Hey guys, I have a question regarding NFL Sunday Ticket. Why is that all of the other professional sports (MLB, NBA and NHL) allow all their games to be broadcast on many different systems, both cable and DBS? I believe most people, doesn't matter of your provider, is able to purchase MLB Extra Innings, NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass. Why does the NFL restrict their product to just one provider? I'm sure money comes into play somewhere, but it just doesn't make sense to me, allow everyone the opportunity to purchase the games like the other sports.

[nick80]

how could you say that DTV has it exclusively when Bell ExpressVu offers it?

[Darkman]

In USA more likely (US satellite providers to be precise)

[drjake]

You know this for a fact? I guess you have some hard numbers to arrive at this conclusion. Please share.

Just do a search and read back from all the original posts regarding the costs and numbers of subscribers that officially purchase Sunday Ticket. The numbers have already been posted onthe board.

[garypen]

A. I would not take numbers posted by forum members as gospel.
B. I shouldn't have to do the search. You made the assertion. You should back it up with facts.

How much does D* pay the NFL? How many subs buy NFLST? If only 10% of D* subs purchased it, that's almost $285 Million per season at the current $219 per season.

[Greg Bimson]

Instead of re-reading the original posts, let's try this one on for size:

DirecTV pays $400 million a year for five years (to total the $2 billion contract).

At $200 per subscriber, 2 million subscribers make this a zero-sum contract. However, we have not discussed the bars and commercial establishments that could pay big bucks to get all of the games.

Until we have the concrete numbers from DirecTV regarding Sunday Ticket, we have no real knowledge of what their profit or loss is.

We do know that 1.8 million subscribers took Sunday Ticket last year. At $200 a pop (conservatively), DirecTV lost $40 million on the package without factoring in the bars. If the average revenue per Sunday Ticket subscription was higher, then the loss is even less.

However, we still can't blindly say that Sunday Ticket is a loss leader that is subsidized across all of its' subscriber base. After all, Dish Network paid $600 million to terminate the merger with Hughes, yet we don't hear about how that raised everyone's rates (a rate hike came a couple of months later). The money Dish Network ended up paying the newly-renamed DirecTV group went to pay the upfront fee to the NFL for the contract, which required the $600 million payment for the first year.

[garypen]

Greg - Stop making sense. Nobody here wants to hear facts or logic. It's like politics and religion.

[Greg Bimson]

Hey guys, I have a question regarding NFL Sunday Ticket. Why is that all of the other professional sports (MLB, NBA and NHL) allow all their games to be broadcast on many different systems, both cable and DBS? I believe most people, doesn't matter of your provider, is able to purchase MLB Extra Innings, NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass. Why does the NFL restrict their product to just one provider? I'm sure money comes into play somewhere, but it just doesn't make sense to me, allow everyone the opportunity to purchase the games like the other sports.The NFL has entered into a three year exclusive, five year total DBS exclusive with DirecTV for a total of $2 billion. The average is $400 million a year.

A far less amount of people take Extra Innings, Center Ice, League Pass, etc., than the NFL package. Those sports leagues at one time had exclusives with DirecTV for their packages. With the advent of digital cable, DirecTV relinquished those exclusives.

At this point, the rest of the leagues offer their out-of-market packages on a revenue share basis, i.e., the league gets a cut of each subscription sold by the provider.

Just so you realize what the NFL has done, their regular television broadcast packages are also "restricted". The only packages available for bid are:

The NFC package (held by Fox)
The AFC package (held by CBS)
The Sunday Night package (held by ESPN)
The Monday Night package (held by ABC)
The Sunday Ticket package (held by DirecTV)

Sunday Ticket is up for renewal in 2007. The other broadcast packages are up for renewal in 2005.

[James Long]

It is a bit simplistic to say that a specific cost is immediately passed to the subscriber. Sometimes it just comes out of the shareholder's pockets. :D

JL

[kwajr]

If you want NFL Sunday Ticket - switch to DirectTv. End of discussion.
lets not forget you can sub to direct for just the sunday ticket

[Bobby94928]

Yep... and all, it costs ya is a dtv receiver and a look at the satellite. Of course that is beyond the subscription.

[larrystotler]

Don't forget that the Sunday ticket does not get ALL the games. There are blackout restrictions and there are games on thurs, fri, sat and mondays as well. A lot of people can get most of the games without the extra expense of the ticket. It depned upon what you want to watch. Personally, I could care less about sports packages, or nascar(non athlestic sport centered around rednex :D ), or any other one. But a lot of people watch that stuff. Most of our TV time is on Sponge Bob and cartoons since I have 4 kids, 2-9 years old.............

[DCSholtis]

lets not forget you can sub to direct for just the sunday ticket

Nope you cant do that anymore, now you have to at least have Total Choice in order to get the Sunday Ticket you cannot order it solely anymore as a standalone package.

[larrystotler]

Residential Yes.....Commercial No.

[JohnL]

Hey guys, I have a question regarding NFL Sunday Ticket. Why is that all of the other professional sports (MLB, NBA and NHL) allow all their games to be broadcast on many different systems, both cable and DBS? I believe most people, doesn't matter of your provider, is able to purchase MLB Extra Innings, NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass. Why does the NFL restrict their product to just one provider? I'm sure money comes into play somewhere, but it just doesn't make sense to me, allow everyone the opportunity to purchase the games like the other sports.
CCLement,

DirecTV doesn't restrict their Sunday Ticket to just DirecTV, but they did CHOOSE to accept DirecTV's BID (BRIBE) to pay them 500 MILLION dollars for being the EXCLUSIVE NFL SUNDAY TICKET provider. So the answer is GREED plain and simple. DirecTV also has to pay a yearly license fee and upto 75 percent of the Sunday Ticket subscription fees to the NFL.

John

[Greg Bimson]

DirecTV doesn't restrict their Sunday Ticket to just DirecTV, but they did CHOOSE to accept DirecTV's BID (BRIBE) to pay them 500 MILLION dollars for being the EXCLUSIVE NFL SUNDAY TICKET provider. So the answer is GREED plain and simple. DirecTV also has to pay a yearly license fee and upto 75 percent of the Sunday Ticket subscription fees to the NFL.Where do people come up with this stuff?

In exchange for $2 billion over five years, DirecTV renewed their exclusive contract with the NFL. The NFL is responsible, as all broadcasts are given to their partners as an "exclusive". I suppose ABC is greedy for paying for Monday Night Football.

The NFL didn't "CHOOSE to accept DirecTV's BID (BRIBE) to pay them 500 MILLION dollars for being the EXCLUSIVE NFL SUNDAY TICKET provider." The NFL entered into negotiations with DirecTV during the 2002 season to renew the Sunday Ticket contract. That is because DirecTV had exclusive right to negotiate the next contract (all contract holders with the NFL have this right).

And why aren't you mad with the NFL? They are a party to this agreement as well.

[DCSholtis]

Where do people come up with this stuff?

In exchange for $2 billion over five years, DirecTV renewed their exclusive contract with the NFL. The NFL is responsible, as all broadcasts are given to their partners as an "exclusive". I suppose ABC is greedy for paying for Monday Night Football.

The NFL didn't "CHOOSE to accept DirecTV's BID (BRIBE) to pay them 500 MILLION dollars for being the EXCLUSIVE NFL SUNDAY TICKET provider." The NFL entered into negotiations with DirecTV during the 2002 season to renew the Sunday Ticket contract. That is because DirecTV had exclusive right to negotiate the next contract (all contract holders with the NFL have this right).

And why aren't you mad with the NFL? They are a party to this agreement as well.

Hey Greg,
Let's not forget that the downpayment was actually made by Charlie with his 600 MILLION dollar walk away fee as part of the failed merger. Hey Chuck thanks for helping out with this bit of compelling programming for us D* subs...:D

[drjake]

A. I would not take numbers posted by forum members as gospel.
B. I shouldn't have to do the search. You made the assertion. You should back it up with facts.

How much does D* pay the NFL? How many subs buy NFLST? If only 10% of D* subs purchased it, that's almost $285 Million per season at the current $219 per season.

If I was spouting off on something that was relatively unknown, I'd set forth each of the facts. However, this situation has been discussed, analyzed and written about all over. I am not claiming that Directv was wrong in signing the contract, only that it is simplistic to argue that the Sunday Ticket Package does not affect programming costs for other customers. If Sunday Ticket increased their subscriber base high enough, maybe it was worth paying for it. That fact I cannot comment on.

Just for your reference, here are some of the facts:

In 2002, Directv signed a $2 Billion dollar 5 year exclusive contract for Sunday Ticket through 2007 (exclusive Satellite through 2005). See the following ESPN Article for the details:

http://espn.go.com/nfl/columns/pasquarelli_len/1494011.html

That breaks down to $400 Million per year. At that time, the number of subsbribers for Sunday Ticket was 1.4 million. If we take as gospel that they have increased subscribership to 1.8 million, then Directv would take in $396 Million if every customer paid $219, then Directv would lose $4 Million on Sunday Ticket. Note that thats before any discounts on programming and assumes a significant subscriber increase.

Using your $285 Million figure, they would have lost $115 Million. Next time you attack someone for not backing up an assertion, make sure it doesn't relate to something that is well accepted fact.

[Bobby94928]

and of the 1.8 million subscriber, how many are commercial subscribers. Maybe the 1.8 is a residential figure. Commercial subs pay dearly for Sunday Ticket. Direct may actually be in the black here.

[larrystotler]

Yeah, I was looking at the commercial rate card last night. It starts at $749 for up to 50 occupancy, which is based on fire code, and goes up from there. A friend of mine who owns a bar has it, and I installed it for him.

[drjake]

Yeah, I was looking at the commercial rate card last night. It starts at $749 for up to 50 occupancy, which is based on fire code, and goes up from there. A friend of mine who owns a bar has it, and I installed it for him.

You would need an awful lot of commercial accounts to make up for the revenue shortfall from the residential subscriber counts. Note that the 1.8 million figure is an estimate. The last confirmed figure from the ESPN article was 1,4 million. Note also that renewing subscribers get a better deal than the $219 new customer promotion; I think $179. If you couple that with the costs of the 4 free months promotion, it is hard to believe that Sunday Ticket on its own is in the Black. However, if the 1.4 - 1.8 million customers would not purchase Directv without Sunday Ticket, then having Sunday Ticket as "Loss Leader" defiinitely helps Directv. With the published information available, no one can make a real determination as to the indirect benefits or costs of Sunday Ticket; Rather, one can reasonably conclude that direct revenues do not cover the direct costs.

[James Long]

Don't confuse consumer cost with provider cost. It doesn't cost what the consumer pays to provide the service. If it did, there would be no profit to run the company, pay for new improvements, and pay the shareholders. There is no $ for $ trade off where E*'s money went to pay D*'s fee or the predicted shortfall of payments by subscribers to NFLST was added to the remainder of subscriber's bills. Profits and losses are NOT directly passed on to the subscriber $ for $.

JL

[Tornado25]

However, we have not discussed the bars and commercial establishments that could pay big bucks to get all of the games.
Exactly. It's not even that they COULD pay big bucks--they DO pay big bucks, IF they choose to get the package. As as noted, it's $749 just for up to 50 occupancy. Let's use Green Bay as an example. I can name right now, with little thought, about 5 bars right around Lambeau Field that I am sure have ST and I fairly sure they are paying for it (I highly doubt a place this big is running 10 pirated receivers). The occupancy of these establishments is 250-300 people (roughly). According to the rate chart, a place of this size pays $2849.

Imagine the number of locations in Green Bay alone that are around this size that subscribe. And Green Bay's the smallest DMA that has a team. I would suspect that we are SERIOUSLY underestimating the revenue D* gets from comm subs.

The NFL is the most popular sport (on TV anyway) in America. I have no proof of my own, but I would confidently say there's no way D* loses money on this deal. I don't believe it.

[satgirl]

Maybe....may be sooner than you all expect