Picture Quality: Dish Network vs. DirecTV

[wireshock]

I'm using Dish Network's 2-tuner DVR-522 receiver. Obviously, the picture is "digital" but it looks very compressed to me. I used to have DirecTV in the mid-90s and I feel the picture was better--but I can't reach into the past to compare them side-by-side to be sure. All "digital" systems use MPEG-2 compression, but the bit-rates can vary, I believe. Does anyone know any more about this? Another area of concern: The recorder can record up to 100 hours--but there's no choice of "quality" like I've read is available on Tivo systems. But even the "live" picture looks very compressed to me, so I'm wondering if DirecTV's picture is actually better beaming down from the satellite...

[jimisham]

I don't have any experience with Dish, but I've had Directv for 7 years and I'm happy with the quality of the picture as seem on a 27 inch TV, with one exception. I just had locals added Friday and they look terrible. Over compressed and ghosting. Hurts my eyes to even watch them.

[Nordug]

I think I read somewhere that on dish, the quality of the picture varies by channel, better quality on the ppv channels vs scifi channel.

[leestoo]

I have both D* and E* and there is really no difference between them.

The quality is good and bad on both. Some channels are better than others.

And the quality can vary from day to day.

[Bill R]

I have both D* and E* and there is really no difference between them.

And the quality can vary from day to day.

I also have them both and what Lee said is very accurate.

BOTH services have problems with their locals at times but the BIG problem with DirecTV is that their is no e-mail address that you can send a report to and get the problem fixed. If you call DirecTV's customer service you (usually) get someone in India who has no idea of how to report the problem to someone that can fix it. This morning when I called to report a problem on one of my Cincinnati locals (VID lines showing on the top of the screen), the hold time was over 12 minutes (VERY unacceptable) and when I finally got a person she told me to re-set my receiver. I explained that this could not be a problem with my receiver and FINALLY got her to submit a report on this problem. DISH Network has a direct e-mail address, DishQuality@Echostar.com where you can report a problem. DirecTV needs something like that too.

After I got off the phone I did call the local station who did check the signal going to DirecTV and he said that the VID lines were not showing on that feed so the problem is likely DirecTV's.

[jimisham]

I had been searching Directv's web site looking for an e-mail address to send in trouble reports regarding locals. I was afraid of running into what Bill R ran into. Long waits and no help.
I did report 'washed out color' and 'low audio level' to our local PBS station by way of e-mail.
Is it true that the maintenance of the local LRF (usually at one of the TV stations) is usually done by that station's engineering department?

[harsh]

The recorder can record up to 100 hours--but there's no choice of "quality" like I've read is available on Tivo systems.True digital systems like DishDVR/PVR and DirecTiVO record the feed without modification. There are no quality settings as most satellite receivers are incapable of encoding a video stream. You should not be able to tell the difference in quality between "live" programming and a recording.

Program quality issues are part of the game. As you suggest, you can't go back but must compare them side-by-side. In the end, there is a lot of heavy compression going on and you can be happy that you're not degrading it further when you record it.

Hopefully when they get some more birds online, they can start reclaiming some of this "digital quality" that they brag about ad nauseum.

[Jaded13]

I also have them both and what Lee said is very accurate.

BOTH services have problems with their locals at times but the BIG problem with DirecTV is that their is no e-mail address that you can send a report to and get the problem fixed. If you call DirecTV's customer service you (usually) get someone in India who has no idea of how to report the problem to someone that can fix it. This morning when I called to report a problem on one of my Cincinnati locals (VID lines showing on the top of the screen), the hold time was over 12 minutes (VERY unacceptable) and when I finally got a person she told me to re-set my receiver. I explained that this could not be a problem with my receiver and FINALLY got her to submit a report on this problem. DISH Network has a direct e-mail address, DishQuality@Echostar.com where you can report a problem. DirecTV needs something like that too.

After I got off the phone I did call the local station who did check the signal going to DirecTV and he said that the VID lines were not showing on that feed so the problem is likely DirecTV's.

The long wait time to get a rep on the phone has been very frustrating for us that work there also.
Moving sat. position to the 119 and having to upgrade current customers to the oval dish to continue to get lcl's has put a long wait time for callers/ this should subside as we complete the transfer

[Mark Holtz]

Having both Dish Network and DirecTV, I would say that the overall picture is about the same on both channels. If you have a intergrated receiver/DVR such as a 501 or DirecTiVo, then you are receiving the signal as it comes down from the satellite.

Locals may be another matter. It is the station's responsibility, not the DBS providers, to deliver a quality signal to the point of presence. In some cases, the station has said the two magic words "must carry" and let the POP try and receive the channel with a OTA antenna.

[Bill R]

Is it true that the maintenance of the local LRF (usually at one of the TV stations) is usually done by that station's engineering department?
The equipment at the station is maintained by the station engineers (I know because I have talked to engineers at every local station over the past few years trying to get problems fixed). Everytime, except once, the problem has been "somewhere else". Here is how the locals are feed to the vendors: In the case of DirecTV, most of the locals stations have a fiber feed from the station to a POP (point of presence) and a vendor (it varies by city) maintain that POP. At the POP, the channels are multiplexed and sent, again via fiber, to their uplink center (usually Castle Rock). In many cities DISH uses Sprint to pick up the OTA signal (some are fiber feeds but none of my locals are feed that way). At the POP the signals are multiplexed and sent via fiber to DISH's uplink center. The uplink center that it is sent to depends on what satellite the locals are on.

[js33]

I'm using Dish Network's 2-tuner DVR-522 receiver. Obviously, the picture is "digital" but it looks very compressed to me. I used to have DirecTV in the mid-90s and I feel the picture was better--but I can't reach into the past to compare them side-by-side to be sure. All "digital" systems use MPEG-2 compression, but the bit-rates can vary, I believe. Does anyone know any more about this? Another area of concern: The recorder can record up to 100 hours--but there's no choice of "quality" like I've read is available on Tivo systems. But even the "live" picture looks very compressed to me, so I'm wondering if DirecTV's picture is actually better beaming down from the satellite...

Hi,

I just switched from DirecTV to Dish and I say the picture was better on DirecTV than on Dish. Dish seems to have more compression and the color is not as vibrant on Dish. But the Dish picture is not bad just not as good as DTV.

Why did I switch?

Dish supplies the equipment for free, well they charge $5/mo per box past the first one, but DTV charged me $5 per additional box even when I owned my own 2nd and 3rd box.

Dish installed 3 DVR boxes with one being a dual receiver for free. Also they have UHF remote so a 2nd TV can be controlled from a different room than the receiver is in. So I didn't have to buy equipment that will be obsolute pretty soon anyway.

Dish offers more channels for the same price as DTV charges.

Dish has DVRs however you can only record the channel you are watching. Where with DTV Tivo supposedly you can record 2 channels and watch a 3rd at the same time. But Dish DVRs have more recording time. Mine all have 100 hours. So since I have 3 DVRs I can always set the one I'm not watching to record something.

Dish takes 4 seconds to change channels where DTV only took 2 seconds.

The main drawback to DTV is you have to buy your equipment if you want a DVR. I think they provide the equipment now with a basic system?

I will try Dish for awhile and see how I like it.

I will probably wait until I'm ready to upgrade to HDTV to make another switch.

Cheers,
JS

[wireshock]

Thanks everyone for your comments. After posting my question I discovered the Search feature (I'm new to the forum and where Search is was not immediately obvious to me and so I couldn't at first find info on my query) and found other threads regarding the PQ comparison issue.

Everyone seems to have their own idea of what makes good picture quality. My frustration with the compression comes from simply observing the picture when I'm up next to the TV, which I am often 'cause I put discs in and out of a DVR there. The picture is so degraded by the compression used by Dish that it actually makes me long for old-fashioned analog cable! But overall, since interference and noise is entirely absent, the picture looks better (if you stand back). I haven't got a large set but I'm certain that should I upgrade to a larger, probably HD, set, the picture will look abysmal to me.

There are lots of old movies which will NEVER come out on DVD which I'm trying to archive off of the 522 onto DVD-R's. It's wonderful that the data I use when I watch or record from a recording stored on the PVR is the same as that which I see "live"--and it allows me to make these DVD recordings of mine at my leisure rather than only at the time of broadcast. But the DVR must once again compress the already over-compressed image. It does a reasonable job, but I'm frustrated because I used to record these same old movies on just plain ol' VHS (and sometimes S-VHS) and in many ways got a better end product than I'm getting now. All because the image Dish is giving me is so compressed.

The person who responded who said they just switched from DirecTV to Dish and says Dish seems slightly more compressed with less vivid colors is probably in a good position to know, given that a general impression of the picture quality would be formed pretty quickly. But it doesn't sound like DirecTV's PQ is much better, given the small difference. And the other advantages my deal with Dish gives me (the dual tuner PVR as well as its installation for free) has outweighed any small difference there may or may not be in PQ. From what everyone says both services are skimping on picture quality to accomodate all the channels (mostly worthless) they must offer to compete).

If I could just order Turner Classic Movies alone--forget the other channels!--with no compression at all beamed direct to my dish! As it is I'll probably be trying to re-record all of this stuff a third time when everything is sent HD. But knowing these companies they'll figure out some way to overcompress that as well so that it too is worse than simple analog delivery!!


Frustrated--but still addicted, I am

wireshock