Spectrum Question

[Sandman]

Could someone explain how on a dish 500 setup the 119 sat is dbs spectrum and on a 121 version superdish it is fss spectrum, if dbs is high power and fss is low power how can they come from the same satellite,

I am totally confused on this issue, sometimes I read too much and understand too little

Bob

[larrystotler]

A dish 500 picks up the 2 DBS sats, the 110 & the 119 on the 20 inch dish. The FSS sats, the 105 & 121, require a larger 36" dish for each location. Due to the size of the dish and the spacing, you can add the 2 DBS LNBs to that dish and get all 3 sats from 1 dish. The DBS freqs is 12.2-12.7Ghz while the FSS is 117.-12.2Ghz. The lower the number, the larger the footprint of the signal, hence the larger dish. Primestar was an FSS sat, and that was why the dishes where that size. As for the power, most FSS sats are lower powered than DBS, but that isn't so much the case anymore. The 121 has a pretty high power setup.

[Geronimo]

They don't come from the same satellite. There isa totally separate satellite at 121 which broadcasts a different signal. It is received on the same dish but with a different type of LNB.

[Sandman]

Thanks, the totally seperate sat at 121 explains what I was wondering, did not know how a sat could be dbs and fss spectrums at the same time, but technology is going to fast for me in my old age thought anything was possible.

Bob

[SimpleSimon]

Well, there's other reasons to not do it, but I suppose a single bird COULD do both - just like you can have an AM/FM radio.

[JohnH]

EchoStar 9 at 121w does have another payload on the same satellite. It is C band and is called Intelsat Americas 13.

The new AMC 15 going to 105w has 2 payloads. KuFSS replacing AMC 2 and Ka band Spotbeams.

It isn't mentioned much but AMC 2 has 2 payloads(KuFSS and C band). The C band payload has not been used at 105w as there is no license to do so.

BTW: Larger dishes and second dishes are no longer unique to DISH Network. DirecTV is launching International channels on Galaxy 3C(95w) KuFSS which will require a larger dish. Also, they are launching local channels on DirecTV 5(72.5w) KuDBS which require a second dish.

[rocatman]

Actually Echostar 9 at 121 W has a third payload, Ka band spotbeams. I do not know if Dish is using them for anything currently.

[Chris Freeland]

Actually Echostar 9 at 121 W has a third payload, Ka band spotbeams. I do not know if Dish is using them for anything currently.

From my understanding the Ka load at 121 is only 1 TP at this time and E* is only using it for testing purposes at this time but they own more Ka frequencies here that they may use on a future satellite launched to 121.

Speaking of a new satellite at 121 to make things even more confusing, E* recently received permision by the FCC to use a new KuX frequency range at 121, 109 and 83. Things are going to get even more interesting over the next couple of years. :)

[James Long]

From my understanding the Ka load at 121 is only 1 TP at this time and E* is only using it for testing purposes at this time but they own more Ka frequencies here that they may use on a future satellite launched to 121.So is the payload one Ka transponder or is the payload larger and they are only using one transponder? The payload would include what the satellite is capable of doing, even if not active.Speaking of a new satellite at 121 to make things even more confusing, E* recently received permision by the FCC to use a new KuX frequency range at 121, 109 and 83. Things are going to get even more interesting over the next couple of years. :)Yep. E9 launched last year with an additional payload which is only now being licensed. Anyone concerned about using one satellite for many different bands should take a close look at E9. C + KuFSS + KuX + Ka, with part of the complication being that the KuX receive antenna on the satellite is steerable.

JL

[rocatman]

My understanding is Dish has 5 or 7 years to use these 3 new frequencies/locations. I believe of these 3, 109 would be Dish's first priority not only because of the location but because they received license for much more KuX bandwidth there then the other 2 locations.

Related to the Ka band spotbeams at 121, Dish could use it for business data services or they could use it for Video on Demand (VOD) with a DVR. The Ka band spotbeams on AMC-15 and AMC-16 could be used for the same things.

[rocatman]

E9 launched last year with an additional payload which is only now being licensed. Anyone concerned about using one satellite for many different bands should take a close look at E9. C + KuFSS + KuX + Ka, with part of the complication being that the KuX receive antenna on the satellite is steerable.

JL

If E-9 has KuX, how much more capacity does it potential have compared to the regular Ku band Dish is using now at 121? I would think a steerable receive antenna would give Dish greater flexibility on where an uplink facility could be located. Dish's ability to use the KuX band on 121 maybe limited by uplink facilities. Obviously, a new LNB would be needed as well but I believe SES Americom has been providing KuX band for home video in South America for a couple of years now.

[James Long]

If E-9 has KuX, how much more capacity does it potential have compared to the regular Ku band Dish is using now at 121? I would think a steerable receive antenna would give Dish greater flexibility on where an uplink facility could be located.E* holds license to 250MHz (16 channels) of KuX spectrum at 121. One of the REQUIREMENTS of KuX is to have a spot receive antenna, since the same 250MHz uplink band is used for both 250MHz downlink bands. If the FCC granted the other 250MHz of KuX to another party, E* would have to be able to pick up E*'s uplink and not the other party's.

They may or may not have a steerable spot on the KuFSS receive dish. If E* put both KuFSS and KuX on the same receive dish it would limit their uplink abilities. Then again, they MAY have two steerable receive dishes.

JL

[SimpleSimon]

Well, there's other reasons to not do it, but I suppose a single bird COULD do both - just like you can have an AM/FM radio.
Well, I was half-right. :D

Guess there are not any reasons not to do it. ;)

[James Long]

Guess there are not any reasons not to do it. ;)There are reasons not to do it, but there are good reasons to do it too. :D

Some reasons NOT to combine services on a single satellite:
1) Every service added makes the operation more complicated
2) Every service added requires power from the solar panels and batteries
3) Multiple services on the same satellite make the satellite less portable

Some reasons TO combine services:
1) Satellites are expensive - The more they can do the more you can recoup the cost
2) Orbital slots can become full - If there isn't room for a fourth or fifth bird the spectrum goes to waste.
3) Interlinking available - Imagine a satellite that is more like a switching center than a mirror relay - Crossing uplinks on one service with downlinks on another is possible if the services are on the same bird

Just a few quickys off the top of my tired head. :)

JL