AMC-15 vs. 105 and signal strenth....

[Darkman]

i was away for some time.. without really following "the scene"...

i understand AMC-15 is launched now..

When will AMC-15 be at 105?
And when is it expected to boost the Signal Strenth at 105?

[Mickdog]

i was away for some time.. without really following "the scene"...

i understand AMC-15 is launched now..

When will AMC-15 be at 105?
And when is it expected to boost the Signal Strenth at 105?
It is currently in testing. When it goes online, I do not know. If someone has that info, let us all know! :eek2:

[Mike123abc]

The SES press releases said 8 weeks of testing...I am hoping they meant 2 weeks to get to the test location, 4 weeks testing at 136, and 2 weeks to move from 136 to 105... If they meant 8 weeks at 136 it could be quite a while.

[rocatman]

The SES press releases said 8 weeks of testing...I am hoping they meant 2 weeks to get to the test location, 4 weeks testing at 136, and 2 weeks to move from 136 to 105... If they meant 8 weeks at 136 it could be quite a while.

It shouldn't take two weeks to move the satellite from 136 to 105 since the inclination is now zero. I would think it would take no more than a week for this move. Zeroing out the inclination is what took so long to get the satellite to 136 and this is because the satellite was launched from the Russian launch complex requiring a high initial inclination. One thing to look for is at what slot AMC-16 will be tested. If it is 136 W then you can expect AMC-15 to be on the move to 105 within a week or so of the AMC-16 launch.

[James Long]

It shouldn't take two weeks to move the satellite from 136 to 105 since the inclination is now zero.The wouldn't want to bump into anyone else ... but in any case, they are moving 31 degrees across the sky and if they move at 0.5 degrees per day or even 0.7 it will take a while.

A week? Not likely. 30mph may not seem like much, but that's pretty fast to be travelling at altitude, and they would be dealing with potential interference with other birds at a high rate. Not good.

JL

[rocatman]

The wouldn't want to bump into anyone else ... but in any case, they are moving 31 degrees across the sky and if they move at 0.5 degrees per day or even 0.7 it will take a while.

A week? Not likely. 30mph may not seem like much, but that's pretty fast to be travelling at altitude, and they would be dealing with potential interference with other birds at a high rate. Not good.

JL

There are a lot of satellites out there but there is also a great deal of space out there in "outer space" especially at a geostationary orbit. The locations of these other satellites is obviously fixed relative to the earth and very well known so avoiding them could take some planning but it is not like it is something new.

I don't understand you comment about 30mph or at altitude. Velocities in space are relative, acceleration (change in velocity) is what puts the real loads on a satellite. It is not like there is any aerodynamic frictional loading at 22,000 miles up. When AMC-15 was being circularized at 136 W, if you watched the LyngSat tracker, the satellite was changing its location at greater than 1 degree per hour. Yes, the solar arrays and antennas were still in their stowed position at that time but as long as the satellite is accelerated slowly, the loads on the satellite including the solar arrays/antennas will be minimal. My guestimate of the degree change in moving a geostationary satellite like AMC-15 should be no less than about 0.25 - 0.5 degrees per hour which for AMC-15 would take 2.5 - 5 days to move the 31 degrees.

As another point of reference, when the Space Shuttle is on-orbit, it's nominal altitude is about 200 miles above the earth's surface. It takes 90 minutes for the Shuttle to complete one orbit around the earth. You can do the math on the speed of the Shuttle. A geostationary satellite is at an altitude of approximately 22,000 miles and it takes 24 hours for its orbit. You can do the math on its speed relative to the rotational axis of the earth.

[Mike123abc]

I hope they want to test AMC-16 at 136 so they kick AMC-15 out of that slot next week and get it on over to 105. I want to see what Dish is going to do with all the new capacity...

[JohnH]

Well, they can move it fast and use up fuel at an advanced pace, but there is no real reason to be in such a hurry.

[Jerry G]

I hope they want to test AMC-16 at 136 so they kick AMC-15 out of that slot next week and get it on over to 105. I want to see what Dish is going to do with all the new capacity...

It's probably for locals. Certainly not for HD as Charlie has already said new HD is a long way off and won't occur until new birds are launched next year. So much for Charlie's 50 channel HD capacity raving for the last two years.

[Mike123abc]

It's probably for locals. Certainly not for HD as Charlie has already said new HD is a long way off and won't occur until new birds are launched next year. So much for Charlie's 50 channel HD capacity raving for the last two years.

I think Charlie is just holding cards close to the vest with that statement. Echostar could easily do all 210 DMAs with E10+105+121 with room still left over... Why then does he need AMC-16 and AMC-17 (well whatever they call the other Ku-DBS that they have already leased). Plus all the Ku-AUX and all the Ka and all the Ku-DBS he is looking for... Satellites are pretty expensive to build and just launch to sit around and collect micrometorites in space...

[James Long]

I don't understand you comment about 30mph or at altitude.Sorry, I was thinking of the speed relative to the "stationary" satellites being passed. Satellites don't steer as easily as semi trucks. Every move has to be careful, and coordinated so that the tracking control station doesn't interfere with other birds and the controls for other birds don't interfere with the movement of AMC-15.When AMC-15 was being circularized at 136 W, if you watched the LyngSat tracker, the satellite was changing its location at greater than 1 degree per hour. Yes, the solar arrays and antennas were still in their stowed position at that time but as long as the satellite is accelerated slowly, the loads on the satellite including the solar arrays/antennas will be minimal. My guestimate of the degree change in moving a geostationary satellite like AMC-15 should be no less than about 0.25 - 0.5 degrees per hour which for AMC-15 would take 2.5 - 5 days to move the 31 degrees.I'd guess otherwise. Look at Lyngsat and find a satellite moving from one orbital position to another at faster than 1 degree per day. Initial launch and stablizing movement at an orbital slot are not the same as changing orbital positions.

Think about it. If AMC-15 loses the tracking station it could spin out and be unusable. Not worth the risk to move it too quickly.

JL

[Jacob S]

So much for being the leader in HD.

[alacazam]

Does anyone know what ever happened to AMC15? When will it be moved to the 105 orbital slot and running? Has there been any confirmation as to what it is going to be used for?
Just curious what ever happened.

[robfwb]

When will 110 and 119 be replaced? I hope these birds will be more powerful and will remove the rain fade issues.

Rob

http://www.robfwb.com - the chat room is open!

[rvd420]

When will 110 and 119 be replaced? I hope these birds will be more powerful and will remove the rain fade issues.

Rob

http://www.robfwb.com - the chat room is open!

110 and 119 are only a couple of years old.

A well aimed dish has litle to no rain fade issues in the US.

[rocatman]

Does anyone know what ever happened to AMC15? When will it be moved to the 105 orbital slot and running? Has there been any confirmation as to what it is going to be used for?
Just curious what ever happened.

AMC-15 is still being tested at 136 W and has been there since about October 28th so it has been tested for about 6 weeks. If it requires 8 weeks of testing per the SES Americom press release, then testing should be complete about December 23rd. You can read previous posts in this thread on speculation on how long it will take to move it to 105 W but there was a story about SES Americom seeking permission from the FCC to do additional testing with AMC-15 at two other locations that Dish has licenses. This additional testing would be for 60 days at each location. I have not seen anything about a FCC ruling regarding this request. The status of AMC-15 and what programming will be transmitted from it would be a good question to ask at the Charlie Chat on December 13th.

It will also be interesting to see where AMC-16 will be tested since it is scheduled to launch on December 17th. I would expect a press release either a few days before or after a successful launch providing details of where AMC-16 will be tested. AMC-16 will also be used by Dish from the 85 W location but SES Americom also has AMC-9 at that location transmitting both C-band and Ku-band. AMC-15 and 16 are both Ku/Ka band satellites. Ku band is what is being transmitted currently from AMC-2 at 105 W.

[JohnH]

Does anyone know what ever happened to AMC15? When will it be moved to the 105 orbital slot and running? Has there been any confirmation as to what it is going to be used for?
Just curious what ever happened.

It is still listed at 136w. I would not be in any hurry to see how well it works at 105w. They have applied for permission to stop at a couple of places along the way for 60 days each to test the Ka at those locations.

[Jacob S]

Sounds like a good plan to me, to see how these satellites work at these locations.

[James Long]

Sounds like a good plan to me, to see how these satellites work at these locations.It is a good plan, for everyone except those who have been waiting for up to a year for a better sattelite at 105 who will now have to wait another 5 months or so (if approved).

The KuFSS payload of that satellite is needed at 105 NOW.

JL

[Mike123abc]

What would be better is if they move AMC-15 into 105 right away and use AMC-16 to do the testing since it is just about to go up, and the need for 83 is non existent at this time.

[rocatman]

Here is another thought on usage of AMC-16. I realize this is probably a longshot because of contractual, licensing or coverage restrictions/limitations issues but Dish has a contract to use Ku band at 118.7 W that the Anik E2 satellite currently occupies. It doesn't appear that Anik E2 is an active satellite and it is certainly not using Ku band. I believe Anik F3 is suppose to be launched as a replacement for Anik E2 at 118.7 W sometime in 2006. AMC-16 could be placed there temporarily until Anik F3 is launched. This would temporarily eliminate the apparent Ku band conflict at 85 W between AMC-16 and AMC-9 that is currently at 85 W. Actually AMC-15 would be a better fit from a signal coverage standpoint at 118.7 W and then AMC-16 could replace AMC-2 at 105 W.

[James Long]

AMC-15 and AMC-16 are identical birds except one was designed for 105 and the other 85. There is zero benefit to putting AMC-16 at 105. There is nothing that AMC-16 could do there that AMC-15 cannot and nothing AMC-15 can do elsewhere that AMC-16 cannot.

The only reason to put AMC-16 there would be if there were some fault in AMC-15 or AMC-16 could reach that slot faster than AMC-15 could move across the sky.

Fun Fact: There are currently six satellites moving orbital locations, four going west and two going east. The fastest moving is going 2 degrees per day (Intelsat 605 - which just passed 61.5 on its way west).

JL

[JohnH]

Here is another thought on usage of AMC-16. I realize this is probably a longshot because of contractual, licensing or coverage restrictions/limitations issues but Dish has a contract to use Ku band at 118.7 W that the Anik E2 satellite currently occupies. It doesn't appear that Anik E2 is an active satellite and it is certainly not using Ku band. I believe Anik F3 is suppose to be launched as a replacement for Anik E2 at 118.7 W sometime in 2006. AMC-16 could be placed there temporarily until Anik F3 is launched. This would temporarily eliminate the apparent Ku band conflict at 85 W between AMC-16 and AMC-9 that is currently at 85 W. Actually AMC-15 would be a better fit from a signal coverage standpoint at 118.7 W and then AMC-16 could replace AMC-2 at 105 W.

If you check, you will find that Rainbow just purchased a Ka band satellite to place at their 119w location.

Actually, there may be no Ku band conflict at 85w. AMC-16 could make a good backup for the quite substantial feeds traffic there or it could become the primary and AMC-9 could move to an unoccupied C/Ku slot. AMC-2 could move back to 85w and provide C band coverage and backup Ku. All sorts of possible configurations. Probably some other configuration will be the actual. :)

[rocatman]

If you check, you will find that Rainbow just purchased a Ka band satellite to place at their 119w location.

Actually, there may be no Ku band conflict at 85w. AMC-16 could make a good backup for the quite substantial feeds traffic there or it could become the primary and AMC-9 could move to an unoccupied C/Ku slot. AMC-2 could move back to 85w and provide C band coverage and backup Ku. All sorts of possible configurations. Probably some other configuration will be the actual. :)

I just don't see the rationale for Dish leasing all of AMC-16 and have it only used as a backup either for AMC-15 at 105 W or another SES Americom satellite providing service to someone else besides Dish. AMC-9 could replace AMC-1 at 103 W or be moved to provide Ku band from any one of the four SES Americom satellite slots in the 130s range.

[alacazam]

Well I hope someone asks Charlie about this on Monday. I would if I were available at the time but I am at work when this is going on. VERY disapointing to find out about the testing holding up things for another 60 days to say the least!

[James Long]

I just don't see the rationale for Dish leasing all of AMC-16 and have it only used as a backup either for AMC-15 at 105 W or another SES Americom satellite providing service to someone else besides Dish.SES has other places to put AMC-16 where E* can use it.
VERY disapointing to find out about the testing holding up things for another 60 days to say the least!Four months (120 days at each additional testing location) plus the time to move it and get it settled in at 105. I hope their request is denied or they screw their heads on properly and put AMC-15 where it belongs at 105 toot sweet!

JL