best browser?

[pjmrt]

I used to use Netscape exclusively, until it became so bloated that I gave up on it and went to Internet Explorer. From what I hear, much of Microsoft's security flaws can be traced to IE. So I wondering what your experience has been with some of the others. About the only "other" I know is Mozilla's Firefox, which I haven't tried. Maybe there are others out their too. Any really good browsers out there?

[Geronimo]

I like Firefox. You might also try Opera.

[MarkA]

I'd say Safari is best if you wann buy a Mac, it blows IE and Netscape and Firefox away. I'd rank the browsers in this order:

Safari (MacOS)
Konquerer (KDE)
Opera (cross-platform, $$)
Mozilla Firefox (cross-platform)
Mozilla suite (cross-platform)
Netscape (cross-platform)
IE Mac (MacOS discontinued - completely different rendering engine from IE on Windows, far fewer rendering bugs and security issues)
Lynx (cross platform text)
NCSA Mosaic (cross platform discontinued)
IE Windows (Windows, discontinued (though Microsoft's thinking of starting development again Firefox has got to be such a big threat), MAJOR security and rendering bugs (but the end user never sees the rendering bugs since web developers are sorta forced by MS to work around them...))

[Steve Mehs]

I've decided to open up my mind again and give a few alternative browsers another look. I installed Mozilla Firefox (for the second time in the past week or so) and have to say, I like it the best of the bunch. It renders pages faster then IE and after learning the scroll wheel click trick, I'm starting to catch on to tabbed browsing. I also like the way Mozilla does a more efficient job at handling favicons over IE. My Links tool bar is nothing but favicons, no text. With IE they icons wouldn't show up right away or after the cache got dumped they would revert back to the default icon, and I'd have a hell of a time getting them back.

Also played with Netscape 7.2 and Mozilla 1.73. Both browsers are basically the same thing and very similar to the old Netscape Communicator interface. Faster page rendering, slower to boot up since their no built into Windows like IE is. Neither one struck me as something I’d like to use. I’ve used Konquerer on Linux, but I don’t like Linux, so I never gave it a shot.

I also tried Mozilla Thunderbird for email, but can’t get the thing to work. When it checks email, I get the little pop up above the system tray saying ‘You’ve got X new messages in your Inbox’, but I check my inbox but nothings there. The only thing I’ve been able to receive in Thunderbird is email to myself that I compose in it, keep the window open a extra few seconds and wait for it to retrieve new mail and then it appears.

Overall I still like IE the best for browsing and Outlook 2003 the best for email. I’ve been using Firefox for the past few days on and off, but I just like IE better, but will continue to use both.

[JohnGfun]

I Like IE.

[MarkA]

Congratulations to the two of you on liking major rendering bugs that if not accomodated very well result in a page only properly viewable in IE (since it was written to IE's bugs instead of to the standard). Congrats on liking automated software installation and the worm haven that is VBScript. Congrats on likeing an overall very poorly designed product released with no effective rendering quality OR security testing in a hurry to release some competition for Netscape, resulting in a product which to this day has not only not been fixed, but has only gotten worse until earlier this year Microsoft discontinued it completely. (discontinued development that is meaning no new features and no new non-security related bug fixes (like the hundreds of rendering bugs))

[Steve Mehs]

I have never had any problem with Internet Explorer, security wise or other. The first thing I did the moment after I got this computer was remove the anti virus software and I haven't used any since I installed Norton 2005 last weekend for laughs. After nearly one year of downloading from Kazaa Lite and using IE and Outlook as my exclusive web browser and email client, without any protection, a fully updated Norton scanned my system and returned a grand total of zero suspicious files. One year of use, zero protection, and not one file. I deep scan both computers weekly with Ad Aware Pro, all that is ever found is maybe a half a dozen cookies, nothing else. I have no problems rendering pages. Now on the other hand, after frequenting some forums on Firefox, I am getting a horizontal scrolls, going to the same page in IE, everything fits perfectly. If IE doesn’t work for you, you have something else to fall back on, but I have no problems with IE and I personally I prefer working with Microsoft software.

As I said I will use both, but Internet Explorer as my main browser. There are many things I like about Firefox and I’m glad I decided to use it and will continue to use it, especially when accessing 192.168.X.X to make changes to my router configuration. It’s much much faster on Mozilla then IE, faster then the normal difference in rendering pages.

[MarkA]

Of course you have no problems with page rendering! DON'T YOU GET IT? :) Microsoft has such a monopoly that all web designers are forced to write to their bugs and not the HTML standard, which Microsoft has made a joke of. That's why you see pages that don't load right in Firefox/Safari/Opera etc 99% of the time it's because the page was coded to IE's bugs. I can easily whip you up a page that looks great in Safari, Mozilla (and variant), and Opera and looks horrid in IE yet validates as HTML 4.01/Strict. Would you like to see? Give me a few days if so.

PS, that deal doesn't applie to IE Mac. IE for Mac is actually the new rendering engine Microsoft created and beta tested on the Mac but never released in the Windows version, it works much better but the very fact that it works much better led to complaints from end users about poor compatibility, LOL

[JohnGfun]

Of course you have no problems with page rendering! DON'T YOU GET IT? :) Microsoft has such a monopoly that all web designers are forced to write to their bugs and not the HTML standard, which Microsoft has made a joke of. That's why you see pages that don't load right in Firefox/Safari/Opera etc 99% of the time it's because the page was coded to IE's bugs. I can easily whip you up a page that looks great in Safari, Mozilla (and variant), and Opera and looks horrid in IE yet validates as HTML 4.01/Strict. Would you like to see? Give me a few days if so.

PS, that deal doesn't applie to IE Mac. IE for Mac is actually the new rendering engine Microsoft created and beta tested on the Mac but never released in the Windows version, it works much better but the very fact that it works much better led to complaints from end users about poor compatibility, LOL
You Seem Like A MAC Person.

[Redster]

I have actually started using Firefox 1.0 . It is a much more stable and a lot faster. So far I am enjoying it.

[djlong]

I was looking for ANY excuse to get away from IE> I liked IE's features but not the big red bullseye painted on it for hackers. Firefox, *especially* V1.0 has served me well (I switched around 0.7).

[Steve Mehs]

That's all fine and dandy Mark, but I will continue to use IE as my main browser, if it doesn’t work for you, you don't have to use it. But nothing you said effects me and I have no use for another browser other then a change of scenery. You had a beef with PNGs, I don't use the PNG graphic format, so it doesn't make a difference one way or another.

[HappyGoLucky]

I like Firefox. I have it with a few extensions (All-In-One Gestures, Dictionary Search, Image Zoomer, and Adblock). The few times I use someone else's computer and have to use their IE, I'm amazed at how terrible IE performs and looks. There is only one site I go to occassionally (my health insurance company's online pharmacy) that won't work with any browser but IE. After complaining to them they've assured me they are reworking their website to better comply with standards and will have me test it in a few weeks.

[cclement]

I almost exclusively use Firefox, in a few rare cases I'll need to use IE to view a certain page. Otherwise, Firefox is my default and I can't imagine using anything else.

[Mark Holtz]

I use Maxthon which utilizes the Internet Explorer engine. There is some very good plug-ins that I end up using everyday plus it goes a good job of filtering out advertising and pop-ups.

Otherwise, I would have moved on to Mozilla Firefox.

As for Thunderbird... I've been using it for several months now. The only irritating thing is that you can't switch a message composition from HTML to plain text. On the other hand, some plug-ins allow me to turn on and off images and HTML, plus it does a pretty good job of SPAM filtering.

[SimpleSimon]

Just an observation, and it's a very small sample, but if you correlate this thread's poster's (including me) browser selection with their political leanings, you have a near 100% match.

I've observed similar results with Mac users. Dang few conservative types use them.

Again, this is just an observation, and if people think it's worth discussing, let's do a thread in Potpourri instead of hijacking this thread. ;)

[HappyGoLucky]

I use Maxthon which utilizes the Internet Explorer engine. There is some very good plug-ins that I end up using everyday plus it goes a good job of filtering out advertising and pop-ups.

Otherwise, I would have moved on to Mozilla Firefox.

Have you looked at the Adblock extension for Firefox? With it I can block out any ad or image, including shockwave and flash, for any site I choose. With Firefox and Adblock, I never, ever have to deal with annoying popups and aggravating ads.

[SAEMike]

Congratulations to the two of you on liking major rendering bugs that if not accomodated very well result in a page only properly viewable in IE (since it was written to IE's bugs instead of to the standard). Congrats on liking automated software installation and the worm haven that is VBScript. Congrats on likeing an overall very poorly designed product released with no effective rendering quality OR security testing in a hurry to release some competition for Netscape, resulting in a product which to this day has not only not been fixed, but has only gotten worse until earlier this year Microsoft discontinued it completely. (discontinued development that is meaning no new features and no new non-security related bug fixes (like the hundreds of rendering bugs))

I have never understood why people get so emotional over someone liking a particular browser. I use IE, I have never had a problem with IE, I have never had a page be unviewable for me because of IE, and I've never had a security problem with IE.

I like IE, if that sends some of you into a psychotic fit, that's just sad.

[MarkA]

The this is, Microsoft released a truly terrible product, bundled it with Windows insuring instant popularity despite the poor quality rendering, and forced web designers everywhere to:

1 - limit their code use
2 - write an IE version of their web page and a standardized version of their web page
3 - worst and very common, write an IE-only "web page"

Again, the irony is IE on Mac is a decent (not great) rendering engine internally codenamed "Tasman" it far greater rendering accuracy actually resulted in complaints about, get this, page incompatibility (it's far more compatible with complaint HTML) thus Microsoft never moved it into IE on Windows, a real shame since if they did use it in IE Windows then even in it's current beta form (it was never really finished, the Mac was a low-population testing ground) it would be world's better than the engine in IE WIndows now.

Perhaps even more significant is Microsoft has discontined non-security related development of Internet Explorer (on Mac and Windows). This means there will NEVER be any new features or ANY rendering bug fixes again, EVER (though there's rumor they MAY change their mind, why not just switch to a currently supported browser). Of course the reason is to get people to buy Windows Longhorn, which will have a new web browser (possibly still called IE but certainly not available outside of the new OS). And there's been no promise this'll even fix all the rendering bugs. HOPEFULLY, they finally finish up and use Tasman but don't bet on it...

On the Mac side where there's no new OS to sell, new IE features are only going into the MSN client.

[SAEMike]

Sounds like you are upset because Microsoft packaged their product, and marketed their product to provide for the incredible success they are seeing.

If someone can do it better, then they can provide a superior operating system, with a superior browser. If their product is truely superior, they should have no problem winning contracts with the major computer producers to overtake Microsoft. Until then, Microsoft is king, deal with it.

[MarkA]

The thing is as a web browser IE is truly horrid, ask any web designer. I'm upset that they used their monopoly power to make a mockery of the W3C's HTML standards. Introducing non-standard tags, numerous bugs in how CSS renders, ActiveX, VBScript, etc. etc. The result is hundreds if not thousands of IE-only websites.

[Mark Holtz]

News flash, MarkA: The average user doesn't know-or care-about the alternative browsers or email clients. Like sheep, they will use what's already pre-installed with the operating system, and not download anything else. (Or install anti-virus packages or install security updates or..)

[MarkA]

That's my POINT Mark. That's why Microsoft abused their monopoly. I wouldn't care as much if it was a standards-compliant browser, but since it's not it's caused a lot of problems for those of us who aren't sheep.

[Geronimo]

I think thatt he arguments in favor of Firefox and IE have been laid out. Time for the origianl poster---or anyone else---to decide for themselves. I, myself, really like Firefox. but if someone chooses a different browser well, that is their right.

[SimpleSimon]

The thing is as a web browser IE is truly horrid, ask any web designer. I'm upset that they used their monopoly power to make a mockery of the W3C's HTML standards. Introducing non-standard tags, numerous bugs in how CSS renders, ActiveX, VBScript, etc. etc. The result is hundreds if not thousands of IE-only websites.News flash MarkA.

I've been a web designer since BEFORE the beginning (HTML has it's roots in something called Script/360 - a text-markup language over 30 years old).

Once upon a time, some 25 years into the game, there were 2 dominant browsers. They BOTH bounced their butts all over the place code-wise, driving HTML writers bonkers.

IE settled in first, while Netscape decided to go off into right field, not be upward-compatible, and other stupid things.

They blew it. They lost. Get over it.

[DonLandis]

All things considered. I have more to do in my work deciding on what music works best to enhance a VO script for a clients commercial than to worry about whether MS has abused their sup[erior capability in proliferating their satisfactory products. I suppose if I were unemployed and in a quest for something (someone) to blame for a sorry down on my luck in life, I'd be on the hate Bill Gates crusade too but I'm not. I'm too busy worrying about stuff that's important. I trust Mr's Gates and company will continue to supply me with tools that work well enough that I don't have to be concerned over them. And, I'm not.

While not as ancient as Simple Simon :) , I did have some roots in programming for Engineers, a la Dartmouth Basic, Fortran, Trsdos, Assy Language, SQL, and finally a bit of html, enough to build my web page. I probably represent the average computer power user but one who does not program or analyze operating systems, but rather uses computers as a basic tool to build the application's output. Some work better than others, I choose those that work and turn a profit on my time. Microsoft IE and Office does that. End of story. Bahhhhh bahhhhh! My shepherd is Bill Gates. :D

[HappyGoLucky]

All things considered. I have more to do in my work deciding on what music works best to enhance a VO script for a clients commercial than to worry about whether MS has abused their sup[erior capability in proliferating their satisfactory products. I suppose if I were unemployed and in a quest for something (someone) to blame for a sorry down on my luck in life, I'd be on the hate Bill Gates crusade too but I'm not. I'm too busy worrying about stuff that's important. I trust Mr's Gates and company will continue to supply me with tools that work well enough that I don't have to be concerned over them. And, I'm not.

While not as ancient as Simple Simon :) , I did have some roots in programming for Engineers, a la Dartmouth Basic, Fortran, Trsdos, Assy Language, SQL, and finally a bit of html, enough to build my web page. I probably represent the average computer power user but one who does not program or analyze operating systems, but rather uses computers as a basic tool to build the application's output. Some work better than others, I choose those that work and turn a profit on my time. Microsoft IE and Office does that. End of story. Bahhhhh bahhhhh! My shepherd is Bill Gates. :D
Thank you for the extremely condecending and arrogant diatribe.