BREAKING NEWS! Price increases coming for Dish Network! [Archive]

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Chris Blount

12-26-04, 07:08 AM

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!

AT60 +$2
AT60 Plus +$2
AT120 +$3
AT180 +$3
Everything Package +$4
RAI International +$3

Letters will go out 1/1/05, and if you have an email address registered with Dish, you will not get a letter but email instead (hmmm, there was a big push to collect email addresses recently). All subscribers that are involved in the increase will be receiving a free PPV coupon. Note, no Dish Latino packages will be affected by this.

This is a large increase compared to recent years, and explanation given is the increase in costs from the providers.

catnap1972

12-26-04, 07:22 AM

Could've smelled this coming a mile away.

Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.

(BTW, any increases on anything else...ie networks, supers, etc.?)

Spruceman

12-26-04, 08:08 AM

I wonder how much of the increase goes to ESPN, et. al., to pay for the rights of showing games between our teams of corporate gladiators?

wcswett

12-26-04, 08:20 AM

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!

Everything Package +$4

Hmmm... well, now that aspect ratios are fixed on the 921, I guess I'll deactivate a receiver to offset the increase.

--- WCS

bavaria72

12-26-04, 08:27 AM

Well, who gets to update the price comparision list between E*, D*, and Voom? 3 bucks for AT120? That is about a 4 or 5% increase of my total bill. Be interesting to see what D* does in March.

mattb

12-26-04, 08:50 AM

This is a large increase compared to recent years, and explanation given is the increase in costs from the providers.

Man, E* is becoming to be as expensive as Digital Cable yet they give more channels! This is sad, since Charlie has said he will not add any new HD content (not compelling) and no more SD Content ( they want to charge us too much)

tnsprin

12-26-04, 08:55 AM

Man, E* is becoming to be as expensive as Digital Cable yet they give more channels! This is sad, since Charlie has said he will not add any new HD content (not compelling) and no more SD Content ( they want to charge us too much)
They have been adding "some" SD content (not counting the LIL). Looks like they may add some more (at least test feeds of some new stations are being uploaded).

Of course its HD content I want to see added.

Darkman

12-26-04, 09:04 AM

Hmmm... from last Retailer Chat - http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=36648

"Cable Rates are going up ( "they are raising rates - Surprise, surprise" )

They showed about 30 or 40 Cable local markets (...Comcast, Adelphia, Time Warner, Charter, etc) - and the rates of Increase.. ranging somewhere from 2 to 8 % ....

Jim suggested to Retailers: "It's a good time to "Cash in" on that"
-----

Hehehe.... - Looks like Dishnet decided to "Cash in" (so to speak).. themselves also ..somewhat :D :(

With all the above mentioned "Cable's statistics" - How many % will THEIR OWN increase make? ;) :(

.....
P.S. .... i guess "the Fat Lady sang then..." :(((((

ClaudeR

12-26-04, 09:04 AM

Hmmm... well, now that aspect ratios are fixed on the 921, I guess I'll deactivate a receiver to offset the increase.

--- WCS

All I could do is eliminate the locals - BUT NO! On the 921, you have to sub the locals to get the OTA guide data. Hmmm, why did I dump Adelphia this month? ARGH. :(

Bill R

12-26-04, 09:30 AM

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!

AT60 +$2
AT60 Plus +$2
AT120 +$3
AT180 +$3

Comparing those price increases with "like" packages from my local cable company, percentage wise, DISH's increases are almost twice as much as the cable company's planned increase. Those increases make cable cheaper than DISH. Between the price increase and the fact that DISH still doesn't carry ALL the locals in my area will make cable look like the better choice for many people.

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 09:39 AM

From what I know this information is incorrect.

I am being told that the increase will happen in March.

Guess we wait and see.

leegart

12-26-04, 09:41 AM

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!

AT60 +$2
AT60 Plus +$2
AT120 +$3
AT180 +$3
Everything Package +$4
RAI International +$3

Higher fees and we lost CNN-International! :mad:

catnap1972

12-26-04, 09:55 AM

:rolleyes:You have been wrong before. :thats: :lol:

If the only thing that's wrong is the date does it really make much difference?

Jason Nipp

12-26-04, 10:00 AM

BFG

12-26-04, 10:21 AM

The fee breakdown doesn't look that complete to me.

How will the locals and AT package bundling go. Will everything go up $3 or just the AT alone packages. Because that would be a nice incentive for those that bundle locals for their price to stay the same. Last year when they did the increase they added the local bundle so in effect the price only went up 1 penny.

Ray_Clum

12-26-04, 10:25 AM

Will be....

Package / Provider / With Locals / Without Locals
AT60 / E* / 26.99 / 31.99
AT60+ / E* / 31.99 / 36.99
TC / D* / 36.99 / 39.99
AT120 / E* / 36.99 / 42.99
TC+ / D* / 39.99 / 42.99
AT180 / E* / 47.99 / 52.99
AEP / E* / 81.99 / 86.99
TC Prem / D* / 87.99 / 90.99

Makes D* awfully price competitive pretty much across the board... Will be interesting to see what E*'s telco partners do with their pricing. This might drive some E* customers towards their telco partners if the partners don't raise pricing.

wkomorow

12-26-04, 10:58 AM

It may be a matter of semantics, but Scott and Chris may be saying the same thing. If the announcement goes out in January, the price increase will be in the February bill. However, the Feb bill is really for March programming.

I agree with Spruceman, it would be interesting to know how much is being spent to support the new regional sports networks and ESPN. All programming has gone up, but my guess is that the sports programming has gone up more that most.

<New England Mode On>
Besides, unless your a Pats (12 and 2 this season, and do I HAVE to remind you about last season) or Sox fan - why would you pay more money just to watch your favorite team lose, anyway? </New England Mode Off>

Chris Blount

12-26-04, 10:59 AM

Come on fellas. Let's settle down a bit here. Like Bill and Catnap said, it could be February or March. Doesn't matter. The fact is that price increases are coming.

Dish is going to take a lot of heat for this so it should be interesting to see what happens.

Bill R

12-26-04, 11:22 AM

All programming has gone up, but my guess is that the sports programming has gone up more that most.

That statement is true but I feel that ONE of the reasons for the big increase is the "receiver giveaway" program that the DBS vendors are currently engaged in. While some of the equipment is leased (DirecTV's isn't) it is costing a LOT more money up front to get new customer. SOMEONE has to pay for that and the way that is being done is in the form of a steep rate increase.

I also think that DirecTV will have a BIG increase in 2005. You can't give away the farm (receivers) forever.

scottchez

12-26-04, 12:26 PM

I think Nick started it. A moderator should never start anything.

There fore I feel that Nick should be demoted and no longer be made a moderator.

As for Scott. He is a member just like everyone else. He is not a moderator. Members sometimes go out and say things. It is normal. It is not normal for moderators, they should be moderating and not starting things.

I expert more from a moderator on a board. Please remove Nick as a Mod.

Nick

12-26-04, 12:34 PM

OK, Scott, whatever you say... :rolleyes:

Dsquared

12-26-04, 12:39 PM

Quite frankly I really enjoyed the "spat" between Nick and Scott. I was 'burned out' after all the Christmas cheer and needed a good laugh.

Thank you Scott & Nick. Have a happy New Year.

Dsquared :lol: :lol:

Mike Richardson

12-26-04, 12:57 PM

Getting back on topic...

Those price increases suck. I have AEP+Locals and may consider going to AT180 Value Pack+Locals. DISH's loss, ultimately.

kwajr

12-26-04, 01:17 PM

I was at the In-Laws place yesterday. She told me her Comcast rates had recently increased and they were looking to go lifeline (basic) services since they hardly watch TV.

I think rate increases stink and I don't want to pay more either...but I also don't see this as an isolated occurrence. Seems to me all my utility company's are jacking rates lately...Nicor announced that they were going to triple the per therm rate for the month of February. Lets see...how much was my heating bill last month...now x3. Are these premiums really required or is it fleecing of America?

My 2 cents
well tw here charges about 50 a month for cable without dig access here is a link and the prices they have here dont show the increases that were announced for jan http://www.timewarnercable.com/piedmonttriad/products/packagesprices/davcoprices.html
or the boxes http://www.timewarnercable.com/piedmonttriad/products/packagesprices/equipinstall.html

kwajr

12-26-04, 01:20 PM

I used to trust all the Mods in that they would take care of us and the threads and to calm things down if anything got out of hand.

I dont trust Nick anymore. He clearly started things. We need a new Moderator please.
i second that he is supposed to moderate

Darkman

12-26-04, 01:29 PM

Keys-Ez

12-26-04, 01:31 PM

I wonder how much of the increase goes to ESPN, et. al., to pay for the rights of showing games between our teams of corporate gladiators?

Well if its equal to the percentage it is of your bill, then about 50% of it.

I don't think pure a la carte would work but there really should be a "no Sports" option. Then the NFL et al, would wake up maybe when the actual sports have to pay 100% of the outragious fees charged that the rest of us are subsidizing.

pez2002

12-26-04, 01:33 PM

are they rasing rates too ?

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 01:34 PM

I would love a no sports option.

The only sport I watch is Wrestling (which isn't a "sport") I don't see why I need to pay for ESPN when I don't watch it.

Of course you could say the same thing about the Womens Channels, other could say the same about the Cartoon Channels and so on.

The big question is how much is too much.

pez2002

12-26-04, 01:38 PM

do you get an rsn Scott

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 01:42 PM

do you get an rsn Scott
Yes Fox Sports New England and NESN.

Another two channels I don't watch.

Keys-Ez

12-26-04, 01:47 PM

Could've smelled this coming a mile away.

Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.

Why it will be virtually the same price... and DTV might have an increase soon themselves..

Though they might hold off on it for a while to be equal with DISH rather than the more expensive. But likely they are going to see the same increases from providers as their contracts come up for renewal.

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 01:50 PM

Chad I just sent you a PM about this. You SHOULD be working.

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 02:00 PM

Got it. Sent one back. I think we can stop posting in this thread now. It's been hijacked enough. :D
Agreed, back to our regular programming folks...

(I wonder if Charlie will say the price incease is because of them adding Oxygen, Encore MopviePlex, and CSTV?)

Sparkman87

12-26-04, 02:09 PM

Agreed, back to our regular programming folks...

(I wonder if Charlie will say the price incease is because of them adding Oxygen, Encore MopviePlex, and CSTV?)

1st lets see them add Oxygen, Encore Movieplex & CSTV, then they can blame the rates on them.

Since sports is 90 or so % of what I watch, I'd love a package with only a few of the most populars channels & all of the sports channels. However, the kids watch channels I'd never turn on & my wife watches other channels that no one else here watches. Thats why we have AEP.

ClaudeR

12-26-04, 02:12 PM

Can we get this thread locked, and start one devoted to the price increase?

How about new subs (December 2004), can we get out of our contract without fees? Probably not, I'm sure I signed a statement about "increase at any time" or something to that effect, but I wouldn't mind losing the contract.

Neil Derryberry

12-26-04, 02:37 PM

Thanks for stirring the pot, scott.. you show your true colors when you do that, and everyone needs a reminder now and again.

Paul Secic

12-26-04, 02:40 PM

Could've smelled this coming a mile away.

Back to AT120 (or off to DirecTV) for me.

(BTW, any increases on anything else...ie networks, supers, etc.?)
Its just $3. I'm sure Directv will follow.

scooper

12-26-04, 02:58 PM

Rate increases are like death and taxes - inevitable. Programming costs keep going up, so the costs of doing business with the programmers goes up / ad nauseum. D* willl probably also have one, and we all know about cable and rate hikes...

SimpleSimon

12-26-04, 03:05 PM

I think the argument is not that they are happening - we know greedy programmers like ESPN want too much money. The issue is that DISH has just finished a big push to talk about evil cable raising prices when they are doing it themselves. That's hypocritical.
EXACTLY!

Sparkman87

12-26-04, 03:08 PM

I have the Everything Package and I'm not worried about the price increase. I have all the channels, except for 2, that I want to watch. I still say, I'm not going to jump boat cause E* doesn't have HD yet and most people these days do not have the money to afford a HD tv set. So, calm down, take some deep breathes and stop whining all the time.

How would you guys feel, if it was YOU trying to run EchoStar? You have to deal with whiny people day after day. Would you want to just go home and take some asprin and to say to H*ll with it all?? Think about that for a bit before you all start your whining again, ok?? :nono2:

Huh? E* doesn't have HD? Don't understand what you mean with that.

I 'm not going to dump E* beacuse of any price increase, price is very low is my decsion process. In fact, I'm jumping to Comcast because E* isn't carrying 1 channel, CSN-C until 4/1/05 & I want to watch it now, & in HD. & because I took a 510 in 10/03, with a 2 yr commitment, I have to keep at least 1 receiver hooked up to AT60 until 10/05. I was going to keep my 811 & just the HD package, but now I need to keep an additional $30/ month package for 10 months or pay a $240 fee.

I may not be the norm, but I expect a price increase every year. Happens with most things. & I'll pay whatever it costs for me to get the programming I want.
Price is secondary.

Scott Greczkowski

12-26-04, 03:17 PM

The problem with the everything pack is it is always the package that sees the highest increase each year.

Im starting to think that maybe AT180 is better and forget about the pay channels since they seem to be in free preview mode anyways, so your not going to miss anything. :)

As I said earlier before Nick blew up the world, Dish is going to have a fun time at CES, and I know for a fact I will be there giving them an earfull. Maybe we should organize a protest at their booth or something for all the stupid moves they have made lately.... (Just kidding folks!)

shilton

12-26-04, 03:18 PM

I'd have to say in the grand scheme of things, a $3.00 increase seems a bit steep that's over a 6% increase in rates, well above the costs of inflation and it makes Dish seem more like the greedy pigs themselves that they accuse the cable companies of being. If indeed these rates are a direct result of increasing sports costs, then I must say I am more and more in favor of less and less sports for programming choice. I remember way back when ESPN was a channel you paid extra to add to your cable lineup. If its sports that is raising the costs so high then maybe that's the way it ought to be again. I watch little football, could care less about billiards championships, skiing, basketball and all the other million sports we are forced to pay for. Lets have a no sports option and let the sports nuts pay for the programming they want. I bet if we were all given the option, far more people would opt to drop the sports stuff than you realize.

Brian Rector

12-26-04, 03:20 PM

Even though Dish will raise their rates, I am sticking with them. After my wonderful experiences (sarcasm alert!!) with Pegasus and my local cable company, a subscription with Dish is just the right thing for me.

Adam Richey

12-26-04, 03:56 PM

I'm sorry, but if AT180 is getting that kind of increase, I want more than Oxygen, MoviePlex (which is just a condensed version of what I already subscribe to) and College Sports TV. If Dish were to add channels like GoodLife, Ovation, and a few staples of digital cable that have long been requested on both Dish and DirecTV, then I think this increase would at least catch LESS hell than would be expected.

Adam Richey

12-26-04, 04:05 PM

I've done some house cleaning on this thread. I am not trying to take sides, but the arguments brought forth were not only in the wrong place, but they involved some heated words that I don't think reflect highly on SatelliteGuys OR DBSTalk. Anybody's posts that I deleted, please don't be offended or upset by it. Just get back to the discussion of price increases and let's not have knock-down dragout wars.

mini1

12-26-04, 04:08 PM

Don't you all remeber?
Dish advertised "No price increases until January 2005" for AT60 (was AT50) package. I remember how they advertised it everywhere, in every store, online, and any other place that sold Dish. I can't remeber if it applied to any other packages? (I think it may have). If they had to lock rates for that long, then it told us that rates would go up quite a bit after that date. Well we are almost there, and what is happening?

wkomorow

12-26-04, 04:17 PM

To be honest, I do not mind the $4 price increase. However, I agree with Ogre, that it will be much easier to take if we see a substational number of high-quality channels added. It is true that satellite is losing out to cable in the number of channels they offer.

(Having said that I plan to stay with Dish regardless of the price increase and the number of channels they do or do not add. Their service is much more reliable than cable. In addition, Echostar has really treated me right whenever I have had a problem - I cannot say the same for Time Warner.)

Here is a hypothetical question. If ESPN, the regional sports networks, FoxWorld, etc were offered as a special add-on package (removed from ATXXX), would you be willing to pay $15-20 more for it, given a $4-5 dollar decrease for the corresponding AT package.?

I am guessing at $15-20 based on the following. When Comcast and ESPN had their very open dispute a while ago, it came out that ESPN was costing Comcast around $2.60 a month. Since it is at AT-60, that means there are about 8 million subscribers on Dish. If Dish is paying that amount, that means Dish is paying about $21 a month just for ESPN. For the sake of argument, lets say that 2 million subscribers are willing to pay for a sports add on package. That would be $10 a month just for ESPN, so $15 for ESPN, FoxWorld, etc. would not be unreasonable.

mini1

12-26-04, 04:24 PM

Only problem wkomorow, is that ESPN won't let Dish or any company (besides C-Band) remove their channels from a packaged line-up. It would be great if they could, but don't look for it to happen any time soon.

SimpleSimon

12-26-04, 04:27 PM

If E* had a fixed-revenue contract for ESPN, your logic holds. I doubt that's the case, however.

It's probably a per-subscriber rate, and IF it could be broken out from the base package, ESPN would have a much needed reality check.

Unfortunately, the contract probably does state that ESPN must be carried in the base package.

P.S. For CES, someone needs to make T-shirts with "I LOVE DISH" on the front, and "DISH SCREWS THEIR CUSTOMERS" on the BACK. Walk up to the booth and engage their people while wearing it. Then see how long it takes for them to catch on.

wkomorow

12-26-04, 04:41 PM

Sparkman87

12-26-04, 04:47 PM

Simon and mini1 -

I agree with you both. Disney would never allow Dish to take ESPN out of the basic package.

My question was hypothetical - how much are sports enthusiasts willing to pay for basic sports programming if it were not subsidized. BTW, right now ESPN is showing the Dale Earnhart story and ESPN2 is showing the world championship of poker.

I would say $15 - $20/month would be about right. Multisports package is $5.99/month and it has very little live sports programming. But you can can some things like coaches shows, etc from other parts of the country. And the reason for those 2 shows on the ESPN channels right now is that the NFL is on CBS & FOX. ESPN usually doesn't counter the NFL with strong programming. And ESPN (HD) has Sunday night football and the best highlights show on coming on in soon.

Mike123abc

12-26-04, 04:52 PM

Rates do not always go up... In fact my local cable company *LOWERED* the price of their top end package $18 last year.

/sigh

Looks like I will have to switch back to cable. With the proposed rate increase by Dish cable will now be an astonishing $44/month CHEAPER than what I pay with Dish...

When I originally went with Dish they were $20/month cheaper. This is a $64 price swing (well $49 because $15 is the cable internet bundle savings I would have).

AEP 82.99 + $4 = $86.99, local cable all movie packs: $83.99 (was $99.99 4 years ago).

HD Pack Dish $9.99, Local Cable $5/month
(note cable is free Discovery and Fox Sports SW in HD, HDTV pack is INHD1&2 + HDNet/Movies)

Cable modem with Dish $55, with local cable $40

With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...

All in all it comes out to $138.94/month with cable and $172.27/month with Dish after the price increase (cable modem in both prices).

I have Dish prepaid until March... Unless something spectacular happens I guess I will be back to cable... Pretty sad that Dish keeps going up and cable is going down (at least in my area).

lhess

12-26-04, 05:25 PM

Look for AT75 to be the basic package. Dish will probably ad FOX News and a few others to its lowest priced package. This would justify the rate increase would it not?

Dish will want to remain "The Lowest All Digital Price In America" so they will maintain their basic package. Remember that they are now competing with a new leaner, meaner Directv and some pretty agressive marketing from companies like Comcast.

TNGTony

12-26-04, 05:44 PM

Just a reminder...the EKB History of price increases on Dish can be found here (http://ekb.dbstalk.com/17). It's interesting to thing that when I first got Dish, I subscribed to everything I could in English and Spanish with a total bill of $60 a month.

See ya
Tony

FTA Michael

12-26-04, 06:05 PM

Look for AT75 to be the basic package. Dish will probably ad FOX News and a few others to its lowest priced package. Naaaah, Fox News is currently huge in getting some folks to choose AT120 instead of AT60.

Sounds like Charlie will throw us a bone this time (Oxygen, CSTV) while blaming content providers for the rate increase. The real reason for the increase is because they can -- look at cable rates and Dish is staying just under them.

kwajr

12-26-04, 06:39 PM

do not want to get involved in this one, but just want to point out - kwajr - By the way - when you were having problems in the past over a "sold merchandise".. and tempers were flared somewhat... - Nick actually stuck up for you .. so he moderated then i would say (..and i should know.. - i got Private Message from him back then.. basically, politely speaking, giving me crap.. for getting involved into your situation, being extra hard on you, and for making remarks about your old avatar or something like that (even though i was only kidding)...

All i wanted to say.. from where i stand - this board was quite "nice" to you ;)
WELL SEE IF YOU LOOK AT THE FACTS which is what they did you would know that sometimes things happen i made the mistake of shipping a boxes by ups they did not survive and oh ups said the box was never returned for proof that it was broke but i managed to get them to pay the claim i do not think the box was even broke just that he was trying to rip us off but any way nick was wrong on this one and has been very arrogant before to most of us

kwajr

12-26-04, 06:42 PM

I have the Everything Package and I'm not worried about the price increase. I have all the channels, except for 2, that I want to watch. I still say, I'm not going to jump boat cause E* doesn't have HD yet and most people these days do not have the money to afford a HD tv set. So, calm down, take some deep breathes and stop whining all the time.

How would you guys feel, if it was YOU trying to run EchoStar? You have to deal with whiny people day after day. Would you want to just go home and take some asprin and to say to H*ll with it all?? Think about that for a bit before you all start your whining again, ok?? :nono2:

Plus, D* will sure to follow with 5 to 10 times more on a price increase. I've seen it happen before a few times. Plus, with D*, I've heard even on distance networks. You are only allowed to have 1, depending on your location. You are not able to receive both, East and West coast feeds.
Were at E*, you have more of an option than you would at D*.
remeber they must get everyone on one dish that will not be cheap

kwajr

12-26-04, 06:45 PM

SimpleSimon

12-26-04, 06:57 PM

remeber they must get everyone on one dish that will not be cheap
Incorrect.

Details fully covered in many threads here and elsewhere.

TNGTony

12-26-04, 07:33 PM

What would it be now if you got everything? $500/month?

Everything English & Spanish as of 2/1/2005 not including PPV:

AEP + Locals $86.99
Superstations $5.99
Distant Networks East $5.99
Distant Networks West $5.99
(I still get a package price of $11.99, but that is gone for new subs)
Multi-Sport Package $5.99
Dish Latino $24.99
-----------------------

$135.94

EDIT---forgot to add this:

HD TV Package $9.99

Prices adjusted

$145.93

Plus monthly adult channels
Playboy (Spanish) Included in Dish Latino
Playboy (English) $14.99
TEN Clips $22.99
TEN $22.99
---------------------------
$206.90

Asia World $4.99 (CNBC South Asia)
---------------------------
$211.89

Add to that all other programming available:

Arabic $39.99
Armenian $9.99
French
---TV 5 $9.99
---RFI $1.00
Japanese $25.00
Russian
----RTVi / RTVi+ $24.99
----Channel 1 $14.99
----HTB(NTV America) $14.99
Chinese
----Great Wall Package $29.99
----Chinese Variety Pack $27.99
----Chinese Superpack $ 21.99
German $9.99
Greek $36.99
Korean $36.99
South Asian
----Hindi $49.99
----Bangla $34.99
----Tamil $24.99
----Malayalam $24.99
----Telugu $24.99
----Kannada $14.99
Dutch (Rumored going away at the beginning of the year) $9.99
Italian (now $9.99 - Going to...) $12.99
Polish $29.99
Urdu
---Superpack $34.99
---Prime TV $14.99
Farsi $ 32.99
Israeli $ 19.99
Portuguese
---Globo (Brasil) $19.99
---Record (Brasil) $10.00 with Globo
---SPT (Portugal) $19.99
Tagalog ($14.99) $9.99 with any other package

--------------------------------------

The "real" Everything package is only $904.61 a month. If you buy the package annually the price is only $10,855,00 a year. You get a 32¢ savings!

Of course you can always add the Major League and NCAA packages!

See ya
Tony

Hoobastank

12-26-04, 07:34 PM

They can stick their "free PPV coupon" up their ass. We ordered a PPV movie last March because we got a free one back then, funny enough, we have not been charged for the movie yet, and the damn coupon expired. That scenario has actually happened twice with us. Way to go Dish!

They can stick ESPN up their asses too. Seriously. Any time I give up an extra $3/mo for nothing (I'm not watching the new channels, IF they are added) makes me consider going down to AT60. I recently dropped HBO. Don't you just love their money-making $5 downgrade fees? Corporate greed at it's best kids.

Chris Freeland

12-26-04, 07:38 PM

I do think E* is being a bit hypocritical again this year after making such a big deal over cable rate increases, however in my area they will still be cheaper then Comcast, who I am sure will also have a price incease, which they have already announced for other areas.

Sparkman87

12-26-04, 07:50 PM

Tony,

You left out the $9.99/mo HD Package. Plus, the is an NBA Package as well if you wantede to add that. & that rate only gets you all your stuff on 1 TV. But, since you'd have AEP, the DVR fee is waived!

Mike Richardson

12-26-04, 08:02 PM

Cable modem with Dish $55, with local cable $40

Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.

https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable

THis goes to anyone, if you are paying the inflated rate for Roadrunner, switch to Earthlink today. Your email address will change, but you will have the same modem, the charges come on the same Time Warner bill, you do not need to reconfigure your computer other than email. And you can save up to $13/mo, or $35/mo during the first 3 months.

I dont own stock in earthlink or anything just a satisfied customer.

[/QUOTE]With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...[/QUOTE]

That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.

If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.

Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.

It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN!

pjmrt

12-26-04, 08:29 PM

Well disappointing to be sure, but the increases don't seem that outrageous to me (I've seen far worse by cable in the past). But Dish has serious competition from cable - its a pity they don't recognize that. Come early next year, I will comparison shop cable and Dish again. I bet local cable comes up with a sweet "get off satellite" promo about the time the new bills hit. I'll probably stick with Dish, primarily for the DVR capability, but may end up putting my equipment up for bid on ebay and switch to cable.

kwajr

12-26-04, 09:10 PM

Incorrect.

Details fully covered in many threads here and elsewhere.
EVERY ONES LOCALS MUST BE ON ONE DISH STILL NOT CHEAP

kwajr

12-26-04, 09:21 PM

It's normally not proper etiquette to shout at people. It also helps to use some punctuation once in a while.
;)

TNGTony

12-26-04, 09:22 PM

EVERY ONES LOCALS MUST BE ON ONE DISH STILL NOT CHEAP

Again, each DMA's local channels have to be receivable using one dish. This does not mean that the locals have to go to the same satellite location or dish as other programming. IOW if all the locals are on a side slot like Chyenne, that is perfectly okay.

See ya
Tony

kwajr

12-26-04, 09:29 PM

Again, each DMA's local channels have to be receivable using one dish. This does not mean that the locals have to go to the same satellite location or dish as other programming. IOW if all the locals are on a side slot like Chyenne, that is perfectly okay.

See ya
Tony well dont you think it will be costly

pastorgadget

12-26-04, 10:14 PM

I posted a while ago that our local Time Warner increased rates a couple of months ago and apples to apples with the increase Dish will still be cheaper, granted I get a few bucks off with my SBC discount. I will wait and see if the Telco's will follow with the increase.

I am not quick to dump Dish now since my wife is addicted to our DVR. Which we could get with Time Warner but for a more than what we are paying now.

So my assumption is that Dish is just keeping up with everyone else but still cheaper. The only problem in my area is that Dish still does not have locals and no plan to add it soon.

SimpleSimon

12-26-04, 10:28 PM

well dont you think it will be costlyWell, more than nothing of course, but I don't think it's going to b the big deal that some make it out to be.

There's not that many markets affected (TNGTony - can you expound, please?), and as long as the new 110 bird makes it OK, I think that's how it'll be solved - no customer changes required.

BFG

12-26-04, 10:31 PM

36 Markets, half in the top 20.

TNGTony

12-26-04, 10:48 PM

Markets affected by the single dish rule (Number of stations on a "side" slot):

Atlanta, GA (3)
Boston, MA (5)
Buffalo, NY (2)
Chicago, IL (5)
Cleveland, OH (2)
Dallas, TX (1)
Denver, CO (6)
Detroit, MI (1)
Fresno, CA (3)
Greenville, SC (2)
Houston, TX (5)
Indianapolis, IN (1)
Las Vegas, NV (1)
Little Rock, AR (2)
Los Angeles, CA (3)
Louisville, KY (2)
Memphis, TN (1)
Minneapolis, MN (1)
Nashville, TN (2)
New York, NY (8)
Omaha, NE (1)
Orlando, FL (6)
Paducah, KY (1)
Philadelphia, PA (5)
Sacramento, CA (1)
Salt Lake City, UT (2)
Pittsburgh, PA (1)
San Francisco, CA (8)
Roanike, VA (2)
Santa Barbara, CA (1)
St. Louis, MO (2)
Seattle, WA (2)
Tampa, FL (5)
Sioux Falls, SD (2)
Spokane, WA (2)
Washington, D.C. (5)
Tulsa, OK (2)
Waco, TX (1)

As long as E*10 doesn't explode on the launch pad, there will be no real problems. There will be some moving around, but generally no problem. Expect Sioux Falls to lose the NE PBS since the only reason they get it is because the Omaha repeater is uplinked to the side slot and not the spot beam! NEPTV is not providing a singal to the Sioux falls POP at this time.

See ya
Tony

Mike123abc

12-26-04, 11:02 PM

Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.

With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...

That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.

If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.

Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.

It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN!

Unfortunately earth link does not service Wichita Falls via TWC, I looked into that several times over the last year, it is probably because we are too small a market. I do not use the TWC email anyways, so it would be no hassle to change.

As far as comparing analog to dish, I have rewired my house with RG-6 and high quality amplifiers (for local stations, but I have tested the cable fed in since with RR you get all the cable anyways), TWC delivers a better picture on the analogs than Dish SD. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that TWC has upgraded to fiber, and I happen to be the first drop off the fiber (the box is in the easement behind my house). Of course this does have the disadvantage of making everyone on TV look older since their wrinkles have not been compressed away.

Dish does not service our area with the local UPN. Cable has the national TW feed of WB. Yes I could save $2.99 by dropping 3 of the supers.

Digital cable ready TVs only cost me $1.50 to hook up, the rest of the TVs in the house get serviced by a closed loop system I have in place (I have 8 TVs right now and only 4 Dish boxes). I feed my 921 to every TV, I plan on substituting the cable DVR. The guest rooms, kids rooms, etc do not need all the digital channels, they get freebie analog. I realize there is a trade off of guide data, but kids could care less to look at a guide. I do *ALL* my TV watching via DVR and it will have full guide data, and I can watch it on any TV in the house (HD fed via a component video amp). In my particular situation this works, your milage may vary.

I lose ESPN-HD/TNT-HD (although TWC seems to be adding them to their systems nationwide pretty fast), but gain Fox Sports SW in HD, and INHD1&2. My TV watching habits are better served with INHD1&2. Odd that TWC manages to charge $5 for their HD pack to Dish's $10 and has 2 more commercial free channels. TWC seems to give away Discovery HDT and Fox Sports SW with digital cable. I have watched maybe 10 hours of ESPN-HD in the last year, and about 60 minutes of TNT-HD (the stretch distortion drives my crazy on that channel, thank goodness ESPN finally fixed itself).

So, essentially you cannot add $15 to TWC and take off $13 from Dish. I will give you the $3 supers cost.

Note that I will also be able to see my 4 Dish boxes on Ebay and not have to purchase a $550 HDTV DVR from TWC. At $10/month it will take many years to make up the difference. Plus my 4 Dish boxes will be useless soon since they are HD and HD is going MPEG-4, I will be selling them soon before they are obsolete.

I am not anti Dish or DBS, it is just that in my particular case cable is now ahead of Dish by quite a margin. I have invested/spent a ton of money on Dish that I will *NEVER* be able to recoup. In fact I probably have come out way behind now in the 3+ years that I have had Dish. I bought 2 6000s with 8VSB/8PSK about $650 each in the end (new sub discount) a $99 811, a $989 921, $150 DPP44, 2 superdishes (both 105 and 121) not to mention 3 dedicated dishes for 61.5, 110, 119. Not to mention the SW21s, separator, tons of extra remotes, etc. If I had stayed with cable I probably would have more money, but I do not regret it, I have had fun with Dish as a hobby and enjoyed HDTV for quite a while before TWC finally rolled it out.

I agree there will be some downgrades, but $40/month is worth a few downgrades: some channels I have never even tuned to will be gone, a smaller HD in the DVR, fewer TVs will have EPG, etc. I will gain some like INHD1&2 and ALL the HBO/MAX/STARZ/SHO channels that Dish does not carry (since I mainly watch movies I feel that I will come out ahead). Plus I get the free on demand of all the movie packages (which will save DVR usage).

I could go on and on, as you can see I have been researching and debating this for a very long time. Perhaps Dish could pull it out in the end with some big announcement. It is Dish that I have to thank anyways for causing TWC to drop their rates. They dropped the rates as soon as Dish started offering local channels via satellite. I am sad in a way to give up the DBS hobby, it is a lot of fun in many ways. I have had a lot of fun putting up more dishes, switches and rewiring the house... Getting OTA digital as soon as it turned on in the area was great...

Jacob S

12-26-04, 11:56 PM

Most everyone knew that these price increases were coming. I bet I know why the AEP has been going up more than the other packages the last few years, its because they do not want to have to increase that package twice for the basic and movie package price increases when they come about. Instead they are just raising it a little more each year to compensate for that plus they figure if someone is going to order that many channels they can afford to pay a little extra. Its not good to have an increase of $3+$3 or $4 to make up for the premium movie package price increases. Its been a while since the premium movie packages have went up and they do not go up as often. They probably will go up a buck next year.

Link

12-27-04, 12:36 AM

No way will I pay 52.99 for AT 180 w/locals. $49.99 is too much now already. The comparable Directv package is $42.99 now (and I don't care if they give us the Encore theme channels or 2 TMC channels, they belong in the Starz and Showtime packages). Their locals are only $3 more vs. Dish's $5.00.

I hope a lot of people downgrade their services due or cancel to send a message to Dish. $1 increase would be ok, but not $3.

Mediacom cable is offering high speed internet, 70 channel expanded basic plus 2 digital receivers with Starz/Encore for $69.99--price good for 24 months. Right now I am already paying $50 for high speed internet alone so this would be $20 more--so worth considering althought I think DVR service would add another $10.

SAEMike

12-27-04, 02:11 AM

It's $3. Get over it.

floridaguy

12-27-04, 04:59 AM

I agree! I have D* and I'm positive it will go up a similar amount soon. Also positive my cable tv alternatives are higher now than when I left them earlier this year. Did everyone stop driving when the price of gas went up? I think that was more than 6%

boylehome

12-27-04, 06:46 AM

The CEO's and upper management must have got one heck of a pay increase and/or bonus. :) The increases should offset the cost of the new birds they are putting up there. hopefully there will be some benefits for the extra bucks evaporating from our wallets.

wcswett

12-27-04, 07:46 AM

All I could do is eliminate the locals - BUT NO! On the 921, you have to sub the locals to get the OTA guide data. Hmmm, why did I dump Adelphia this month? ARGH. :(

My local cable company just went digital last year but still hasn't added any HD content or DVRs, so I'm stuck with satellite. I put up a D* dish last month, just in case I have reason to go that route.

--- WCS

wcswett

12-27-04, 07:59 AM

Dish is going to have a fun time at CES, and I know for a fact I will be there giving them an earfull. Maybe we should organize a protest at their booth or something for all the stupid moves they have made lately.... (Just kidding folks!)

Maybe when you get your next sit-down with Charlie you could mention that timing his price increases to coincide with his anti-cable promotions makes him look like a complete idiot. Also you should ask him if Sales gives him any figures on how many subscribers reduce their subscriptions following the announcement of a rate increase.

--- WCS

DonLandis

12-27-04, 08:05 AM

I have the AEP, America Everything Pack. But in order to get everything I needed I had to add some other packages to "everything" to get everything I needed. This seems to be fuzzy math to me.

"Everything" + a few things extra = everything I need

Why is is that the Everything Pack doesn't include everything I need?

Can I have Andy Rooney's job?

James Long

12-27-04, 09:02 AM

I have the AEP, America Everything Pack. But in order to get everything I needed I had to add some other packages to "everything" to get everything I needed.What else do you "need" and why should everyone else with the "Almost Everything Pack (AEP)" pay for that content?

As noted by TNGTony, the "Absolutely Everything Pack" would be $904.61 a month or $10,855,00 a year.

JL

Mike123abc

12-27-04, 09:39 AM

There are some changes Dish could make with the everything pack that could convince me to stay with them longer:

1. Roll in the HD pack to the everything pack. That could justify the $4/month increase they are planning. In fact they could move HD down into other packages... The whole concept that you pay for ESPN 2x just because they have an HD feed is silly (yes I know ESPN probably charges extra for the HD feed). Having to pay to have a channel delivered in HD in addition to SD is a concept that is going to have to fall by the wayside sooner or later, all channels should be delivered in HD and SD should fade away (look at DIRECTV saying in 3 years they can have 150 channels in HD).

2. Roll the superstations into AEP. After all they just got renewed by congress, and the Dish packages used to have the superstations in them a long time ago...

3. Add a lot more HD channels, or even enhanced definition channels with real DVD quality picture until the HD version comes out (yeah I know there is the no bandwidth argument that they keep making even though they just launched 2 new satellites and have not said a peep about what they are going to be using them for). If the AEP included lets say the top 20 cable channels at an HD bit rate, the PQ would blow away cable.

ds650

12-27-04, 09:56 AM

Their locals are only $3 more vs. Dish's $5.00.

For whatever reason I also get another local channel with D* than I would have with E*.

Scott Greczkowski

12-27-04, 10:17 AM

1. Roll in the HD pack to the everything pack. That could justify the $4/month increase they are planning. In fact they could move HD down into other packages... The whole concept that you pay for ESPN 2x just because they have an HD feed is silly (yes I know ESPN probably charges extra for the HD feed). Having to pay to have a channel delivered in HD in addition to SD is a concept that is going to have to fall by the wayside sooner or later, all channels should be delivered in HD and SD should fade away (look at DIRECTV saying in 3 years they can have 150 channels in HD).
And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.

Mike Richardson

12-27-04, 10:26 AM

Unfortunately earth link does not service Wichita Falls via TWC, I looked into that several times over the last year, it is probably because we are too small a market. I do not use the TWC email anyways, so it would be no hassle to change.

That really sucks. I think Time Warner is starting to get smart and maybe is not letting Earthlink roll out everywhere. I guess there is no DSL available either?

As far as comparing analog to dish, I have rewired my house with RG-6 and high quality amplifiers (for local stations, but I have tested the cable fed in since with RR you get all the cable anyways), TWC delivers a better picture on the analogs than Dish SD. I am fortunate enough to live in an area that TWC has upgraded to fiber, and I happen to be the first drop off the fiber (the box is in the easement behind my house). Of course this does have the disadvantage of making everyone on TV look older since their wrinkles have not been compressed away.

I was at a buddy's house the other day and I still say the analog "quality" is worse than compression. On their HDTV with cable the analog channels look downright awful and they are in Houston which has the full fiber upgrade, HDTV, DVR, Cable Phone, you name it.

James Long

12-27-04, 10:30 AM

For whatever reason I also get another local channel with D* than I would have with E*.Amazingly enough, I get one more local on E* than D* subscribers in my area get. My local UPN. Plus I could get superstations if I wanted more WB/UPN options. What market are you in?

JL

Rodney

12-27-04, 10:37 AM

This increase will probably allow Charlie to maintain his profit margin and provide additional funds to purchase VOOM.

ocnier

12-27-04, 10:49 AM

And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.

I agree Scott, but Dish is too used to the cash flow inside and the industry standard is also that way. I think in about 4 more years that might come about, but not right now with bandwidth at a premium. :rolleyes:

ds650

12-27-04, 10:54 AM

Amazingly enough, I get one more local on E* than D* subscribers in my area get. My local UPN. Plus I could get superstations if I wanted more WB/UPN options. What market are you in?

JL

My locals would be Ft Wayne, IN. My extra channel is a WB. I'm not sure I'll watch it much. I was kinda surprised locals weren't the exact same across the board.

JBKing

12-27-04, 11:25 AM

Just for giggles, I called Adelphia to see what their latest rates were. For approximately 70 channels of basic services - 41.01, add the digital basic channels that are similar to AT180 or Total Choice+ for an additional 12.50 + 3.50 rental, so that is 57.01 total. Compare to AT180 soon to be 52.99 with locals or TC+ for 42.99 (or 45.99 assuming a $3 increase).

Even if D* announces a price increase soon, which I expect, the grass is looking more and more green. I've been waiting for my SuperDish commitment to expire this week. Now, I want to see what D*'s non TiVO DVR will be before jumping ship.

Don't get me wrong, IMO, $3 (7.5% increase on AT120) is not really anything to complain about, but after Charlie's increase last year to pay for his Cable Pig ad campaign ;) it seems D* is clearly a better value for me.

invaliduser88

12-27-04, 12:46 PM

And aren't we also loosing the Superstation package as of the first of the year?

JBKing

12-27-04, 12:49 PM

Heck, I didn't think we were even LOSING them! ;)

Bobby94928

12-27-04, 01:11 PM

And aren't we also loosing the Superstation package as of the first of the year?

No, the Superstations were extended with the new Satellite Bill.

Mark Lamutt

12-27-04, 02:33 PM

And on Cable channels such as ESPN-HD and Discovery HD are FREE as long as you have their HD box. Only Satellite charges you to watch HD channels. I agree the HD channels should be rolled into the Everything pack.

That's not true anymore in Denver. If you want ESPN-HD, DiscHD and the InHD channels from Comcast, you have to subscribe to their top tier digital package. It would be like being forced to sub to Dish's AEP just to get ESPN-HD or DiscHD. So, while it's not a separate package, if you want it, you have to sub to the highest tier of programming offered.

But, you can get their HD box by subscribing to the lowest, most basic locals only package.

James Long

12-27-04, 02:46 PM

There are some changes Dish could make with the everything pack that could convince me to stay with them longer:They are trying to INCREASE revenue. Rolling in things that normally cost much more without additional cost doesn't approach that goal.

I believe raising the w/o locals cost while keeping the w/locals cost the same might work. It would pull an extra dollar out of the non-locals subscribers while making the jump to w/locals less of a sticker shock.

Giving away the HD pack to AEP subscribers only helps AEP subscribers and not the goal of increasing revenue. In fact, it decreases revenue. As long as HD receivers are subsidized don't expect the HD pack to be rolled in.

The +$2/+$3/+$3/+$4 increase is higher than this year's +$0/+$1/+$2/+$3 and 2003's $2 across the board. And there is a fair amount of sticker shock there for people who have not seen the channel additions they wanted. But increases are not channel related they are revenue related and many channels (including the Viacom's negotiated this year) have clauses raising their rates annually. A COGS adjustment was due.

Channel List -
Added to AT50/AT60 since 2003 Rate Guarantee
Health TV (PI) later removed
Stuff TV, TV Outlet, Catalog TV, Auction TV - all home slocking that pay
ARTS TV (PI) - on wing bird
BingoTV - selected states
CCTV9 and CCFEC propaganda channels
TVGC and HRTV - valid channels?
Removed from AT50/60:
CCN TV, SafetyNet, StarNet, Health TV - all PI - couldn't pay
EE, FN, Daystar - all PI - SkyAngel complained

Added to AT120 since 2004 $1 Rate Change
SiTV and Sirius Music (plus AT60's TVGC, BingoTV, HRTV, CCTV9, CCFEC)
Lost: CNNfn (ceased) and four PIs noted above

Added to AT180 since 2004 $2 Rate Change
NickToons and AT120 channels noted
Lost: Same as AT120

Added to AEP since 2004 $3 Rate Change
Same as AT180 including lost

Did I miss anything? (GOL TV and RealityTV were added to AT150, and Univision West and Telefutura were added to AT100 in 2003 before the last rate change.)

Rate changes ARE NOT about the channels added or lost - but I hope that E* throws us a bone and adds several new channels to balance the perception.

JL

BFG

12-27-04, 03:13 PM

I believe raising the w/o locals cost while keeping the w/locals cost the same might work. It would pull an extra dollar out of the non-locals subscribers while making the jump to w/locals less of a sticker shock.

This is exactly the same thing I wish they would do.

Jacob S

12-27-04, 03:19 PM

I can imagine the increased cost in providing services due to locals, SuperDishes, and the upcoming HD channels doesn't help. Eventually everything will probably be HD if not digital out to the television (with new receivers of course). I wonder how much it will be then? It probably stands to be a bit more than it is right now.

Paul Secic

12-27-04, 04:19 PM

Paul Secic

12-27-04, 04:38 PM

Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.

https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable

THis goes to anyone, if you are paying the inflated rate for Roadrunner, switch to Earthlink today. Your email address will change, but you will have the same modem, the charges come on the same Time Warner bill, you do not need to reconfigure your computer other than email. And you can save up to $13/mo, or $35/mo during the first 3 months.

I dont own stock in earthlink or anything just a satisfied customer.

With cable I also save 3 extra box at $5/month and superstations $5.99/month, but cable has $9.95 DVR fee but I do not have to buy the HD 2 Tuner box...[/QUOTE]

That's not a fair comparison. A TV without a box gets no EPG, no premiums, no PPV, nothing except 80 or so sparkly analog channels. Why pay for all these digital channels and only look at them on one TV.

If I add $15/mo for extra boxes to cable and deduct $13 from DISH it comes out to $153.94/month with cable and $159.27/month with Dish.

Why do you have all the superstations? Do you only need them for UPN and WB? If so... you can just subscribe to one WB and one UPN and pay $1.50 per channel. If you make that change you can save $2.99 and get DISH down to $156.28/month.

It looks like you have Time Warner (they charge $55/$40 in Wichita Falls) so right now you can save $15.99 off your bill and you only lose some extra WB/UPN![/QUOTE]

My roommate and share Comcast through wireless hub. Each of us pay $30 a month for Internet.

Hoobastank

12-27-04, 05:57 PM

Do you have Time Warner Cable company? If you do... SWITCH to Earthlink... it's $42/mo, and only $20/mo for the first 3 months. This is what I do. I get internet via cable for $42 and use DISH for TV.

https://store.earthlink.net/cgi-bin/wsisa.dll/store/product.html?product=cable

I agree completely. I have Earthlink cable internet, and Dish for tv. I have absolutely no use for TW, the king of corporate *******s. Why people sign up for Roadrunner is a mystery. Earthlink is $41.95/mo in most divisions, which is always cheaper than Roadrunner, no matter what tv package you have with TW.

However, I am switching back to RR this month because they offered me 12 months @ $29.95. Can't beat that where I'm at. I'll switch back to Earthlink after the year to take advantage of their current special.

gottahavit

12-27-04, 06:35 PM

this is very funny considering I just saw a Dish Commercial slamming Cable, add went something like this... "The cost of digital technology is dropping, why do cable rates keep going up?" :lol:

Sounds like their own marketing statement implies they are being greedy and should be eliminated as a choice when considering programming changes.

:eek2:

Nick

12-27-04, 07:18 PM

Changing providers because of a $3 rate increase is the little man's revenge.

I have a neighbor who had her cable disconnected for non-payment, being some $270 in arrears. She blamed the cable company for the disconnect. In an act of revenge, she refused to pay the cable bill and called D*, which rejected her due to bad credit. For even more revenge, she then signed up for E* which took her and now cuts her off when she goes past due. If/when E* cancels her altogether, I don't where she will go. She still owes Adelphia $270.

Always interesting how the little man (or woman) exacts his (or her) revenge. :p

gottahavit

12-27-04, 08:12 PM

I think you missed the point. Their own commerical claims digital prices should be going down and slamming cable for raising rates. I'm not talking about dropping anyone for 3 dollars a month, I'm talking about IF someone is considering progamming changes, maybe they should take Dish's commercial to heart.

Nick

12-27-04, 08:17 PM

My post was not in response to your comments.

MrPete

12-27-04, 09:43 PM

If you think that is bad, in my area (Chicago) Comcast is also raising rates in January.

Expanded Basic $32.00 --> $39.00 21.9% increase :nono:
Standard Cable $39.99 --> $46.99 17.5% increase :nono2:

Standard (Analog) Cable consists of 73 channels:
2 WBBM-TV (2) CBS
3 Comcast Network
4 WGBO-TV (66) UNI
5 WMAQ-TV (5) NBC
6 Government Access
7 WLS-TV (7) ABC
8 WPWR-TV (50) UPN
9 WGN-TV (9) WB
10 WCIU-TV (26)
11 WTTW-TV (11) PBS
12 WFLD-TV (32) FOX
13 WCPX-TV (38) PAX
14 WSNS-TV (44) TEL
16 Educational Access
17 WJYS-TV (62)
18 TV Guide Channel
19 Public Access
20 WYCC-TV (20)
21 WYIN-TV (56) PBS
22 WXFT-TV (60)
24 Animal Planet
26 Fox News Channel
28 Spike TV
29 MTV
30 VH1
31 USA Network
32 Fox Sports Net
33 ESPN
34 ESPN2
35 Headline News
36 CNN
37 Comcast SportsNet Chicago
38 CLTV
39 CNBC
40 The Weather Channel
41 AMC
42 Comedy Central
43 E!
44 Sci-Fi Channel
45 Lifetime
46 Nickelodeon
47 Cartoon Network
48 Discovery Channel
49 TNT
50 TBS
51 ABC Family
52 The Learning Channel
53 Home & Garden
54 Disney Channel
55 ESPN Classic Sports
58 FX
59 MSNBC
60 Food Network
61 CSPAN 2
62 EWTN
64 Travel Channel
65 Court TV
66 BET
67 TLN
68 The Golf Channel
69 Hallmark Channel
70 CMT
71 Oxygen
72 Speed Channel
73 TV Land
75 Outdoor Life
76 The History Channel
78 A&E
95 CSPAN
96 HSN
97 QVC
99 Celebrity Shopping Network
217 ABC News Now

DISH AT120 w/locals is currently $39.99.
If it goes up +3, it is still cheaper and quality much better than Comcast here.
If you want Digital Cable, it is even MORE expensive

Mike123abc

12-27-04, 10:28 PM

FTA Michael

12-27-04, 11:22 PM

Dish is becoming like the Federal government... They are raising the rate of top in subs far faster than inflation.. AEP up $7 in 2 years. They are not raising the bottom end very much. They are "taxing" the larger subs to support the low end AT60 people.

Long term this will be very destructive. Unlike the Federal Government Dish cannot force subs to the upper end packages, and if they price themselves out of the market they end up with a large problem.Leaving the government metaphor (huh?) out of it...

First, remember that Dish sets each and every price to maximize profits. It doesn't come up with a particular profit figure then shifts the package prices to fit. It sets each package at the price it believes will create the most profits.

Second, note that the AT60 subscriber market is much different than the AEP subscriber market. AT60 subs have just enough in their budget to get this "lifeline" service, or they were attracted by the lowball advertised price. In either case, Dish hopes that once the equipment's installed, a lot of AT60 subs will upgrade or order some PPVs. At the other end, AEP subs are so committed to getting every channel that they're willing to pay top dollar for the privilege, as long as it's less than competitors' similar plans.

When Dish raises the rates on AEP, some folks will complain but (IMHO) few will use this as an excuse to downgrade; they'll grudgingly pay the new rate. (Even the downgraders can be lured back up; the important factor is to keep the rate better than the competitors'.) When Dish raises the rates on AT60, they change the lowball number they can plaster on billboards and newspaper ads and they'll see a fair number of financially strapped viewers pull the plug altogether.

Seeing the rates go up at Dish is like watching them go up at McDonald's. You can complain about raw beef prices or increased energy costs or health insurance, but you can save yourself the grief. Decide whether you want to continue your routine, cut back, or switch to Burger King.

Link

12-28-04, 12:38 AM

If you think that is bad, in my area (Chicago) Comcast is also raising rates in January.

Expanded Basic $32.00 --> $39.00 21.9% increase :nono:
Standard Cable $39.99 --> $46.99 17.5% increase :nono2:

I remember hearing on ABC 7 News that Comcast was raising their rates but that is ridiculous. Are they even adding any channels to those packages?
I remember they said with cable services and internet, bills could exceed $150 a month.

MrPete

12-28-04, 12:51 AM

They are not adding any new channels AFAIK.
I have their broadband access and that is 45.95/mo + tax/fees or about $48/mo
plus about another $8+2 for lifeline cable.

Internet w/o lifeline cable actually costs more... :hurah:

SimpleSimon

12-28-04, 01:52 AM

36 Markets, half in the top 20.Looks like 5 transponders (61 channels) on 61.5 and and 4 (42 channels) on 148.

That's enough for 8 well-supplied HD channels - IN MPEG-2

E/W feeds of ABC, NBC, FOX, WB, UPN (CBS is already there) would be a real good start.

HONOR YOUR PROMISES DISH!

Mike Richardson

12-28-04, 03:37 AM

However, I am switching back to RR this month because they offered me 12 months @ $29.95. Can't beat that where I'm at. I'll switch back to Earthlink after the year to take advantage of their current special.

Hah, really? And you're not even a Cable TV sub? That's cool.

tech_head

12-28-04, 10:46 AM

Hi,

It looks like I'll be sending a receiver back. -$5.00 a month.
Looks like I'll dump Showtime and StarZ - $20.00 a month.
Add in their price increase and I still save about $20.00 per month.

Way to go dish for lowering my rates!!!!

garypen

12-28-04, 11:55 AM

Ah. Price Increases. Just one more reason, besides suckass equipment and missing channels, to consider DirecTV and Comcast at the end of my Dish commit. (It's just around the bend too!)

Mike Richardson

12-28-04, 01:02 PM

Ah. Price Increases. Just one more reason, besides suckass equipment and missing channels, to consider DirecTV and Comcast at the end of my Dish commit. (It's just around the bend too!)

Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?

You will NEVER escape price increases.

hambone

12-28-04, 01:42 PM

Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?

You will NEVER escape price increases.

For grins I went and priced my plans against DirecTV and Comcast and Dish is still by far the best deal in town. Comcast wasn't even close and D* was almost $20 more/month. Add to that my investment in two PVRs, it doesn't make any sense for me to switch, price increases or not.

The only thing at this point or the near future that will make me change is the direction of HD programming. All providers are pretty pathetic in this arena right now.

Tyralak

12-28-04, 02:49 PM

Tyralak

12-28-04, 02:52 PM

Jim suggested to Retailers: "It's a good time to "Cash in" on that"
-----

Hehehe.... - Looks like Dishnet decided to "Cash in" (so to speak).. themselves also ..somewhat :D :(

With all the above mentioned "Cable's statistics" - How many % will THEIR OWN increase make? ;) :(

.....
P.S. .... i guess "the Fat Lady sang then..." :(((((

Looks like Charlie has decided to start "dishin' it up" right up the customer's rectal cavity.

Tyralak

12-28-04, 02:56 PM

I was at the In-Laws place yesterday. She told me her Comcast rates had recently increased and they were looking to go lifeline (basic) services since they hardly watch TV.

I think rate increases stink and I don't want to pay more either...but I also don't see this as an isolated occurrence. Seems to me all my utility company's are jacking rates lately...Nicor announced that they were going to triple the per therm rate for the month of February. Lets see...how much was my heating bill last month...now x3. Are these premiums really required or is it fleecing of America?

My 2 cents

I agree, Nipper. McCain was threatening the pay tv industry with more regulation if they didn't stop the gouging. I guess it's time to see if he makes good on his word.

TonyB

12-28-04, 03:12 PM

I think I remember sombody saying that when they called E* to drop some channels or package that they were charged $5 for the change. Does anyone know whether you can drop service without the fee, IF its at the time of a rate increase? Is so, seems like a good time to re-evaluate what package you really need - make changes for free. I am thinking of backing down to the 60 pacakge AND dropping the Locals. Since you can add channels without the fee (I assume), its worth doing once the notice of increase comes along.

BFG

12-28-04, 03:32 PM

No, why would they do that. The $5 downgrade fee will still be there ;)

garypen

12-28-04, 05:46 PM

Like DirecTV and Comcast don't raise prices too?

You will NEVER escape price increases.Of course they do. However, this will make AT120 w/locals more expensive than TC w/locals, and puts it at the same price point as TC+ w/locals. Both TC packages are a better value than AT120, but TC+ basically blows it away.

That's just the basic programming. Let's not forget Dish's bug box HW, $5 downgrade fees, DVR fees per receiver vs. household, inability to make online programming changes (up AND down), CSR roulette, lack of many sports, less HD, etc.

For those who need or want Superstations, Sirius, certain Internationals, or BingoTV, Dish will still offer the most value. But, for anybody else who wants to receive their TV via satellite, and isn't emotionally attached to Dish for some bizarre reason known only to them, DirecTV is now the better value.

This price increase tips the scales.

James Long

12-28-04, 05:53 PM

This price increase tips the scales.For a day. Then D* WILL raise their rates. And they won't "Price Guarantee" anything. :D

JL

hongcho

12-28-04, 06:33 PM

> Then D* WILL raise their rates.

True. However, the last DirecTV price hike was about a year ago. How often do they update prices?

Hong.

Adam Richey

12-28-04, 06:40 PM

It comes once a year towards the beginning. Usually only once every couple years, but it's been an annual thing the past couple years.

bavaria72

12-28-04, 06:50 PM

...and isn't emotionally attached to Dish for some bizarre reason known only to them, DirecTV is now the better value. This price increase tips the scales.

You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - Art

shilton

12-28-04, 06:53 PM

I have to tell you, I have been a Dish sub for like 6 years and have always been pretty pleased but I am really getting disgusted. I know most here on this board are saying hey its only $3.00 here or $5.00 there, get over it...but one must look at the bigger picture here.

We are talking something in the neighborhood of a 6% increase (more if you have Supers or Premium Channels). When is the last time your boss gave you a 6% raise? Anytime prices rise above inflation, we all ought to take notice. Besides, what new channels has Dish added lately (or for the last 12-18 months for that matter) Charlie talks out of both sides of his mouth. On one side, he threatens to drop this and that because channels are getting too expensive and we can't add this channel because of cost, etc...but yet we eat increase after increase much due to all the sporting channels Dish has to offer. If the channel is getting that expensive to maintain, its time to evaluate how badly it is really needed or wanted (or re-package it so those who WANT it can pay for it).

Walmart makes its fortunes with quantity not price and Charlie and some of the others could learn a lot from their business model. I bet there would be a lot more happy customers giving them a lot more money if the cost were kept low and increases were kept to a minimum. Also for those of us on the higher end packs, I grow tired of my increases subsidizing the cheaper packages so that someone can get in on the entry level package for $30.00 or less! I think we ought to spread these increases more evenly across the board. If its fair for me on the high end, its fair for the little guy on the low end too.

Hoobastank

12-28-04, 07:19 PM

Hah, really? And you're not even a Cable TV sub? That's cool.

Correct. We haven't been a cable sub for 6 years now. The $29.95/mo for 12 mo is cool, but I've since heard of some people being offered that price @ 18 months! That's pretty unbelievable. Guess my division didn't miss me that much.

Hoobastank

12-28-04, 07:24 PM

I don't understand why some people on here can say that people with AEP are subsidizing people with lower packs. EVERYONE's rates are going up. People with AT60 are going up $2 versus $4 for the cream of the crop. You're actually getting a better value out of this rate increase dollar for dollar for the number of channels your getting.

If I heard some valid points coming from the AEP people concerning this issue, I'm sure we're all listening........

James Long

12-28-04, 08:04 PM

We are talking something in the neighborhood of a 6% increase (more if you have Supers or Premium Channels).Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.
EG:
AEP w/locals & 1 Reciever - $82.99 raises to $86.99 (4.8% increase)
AEP w/locals & HD & 2nd Reciever - $97.97 raises to $101.97 (4.1%)

AT180 w/o locals - $44.99 raises to $47.99 (6.6%)
AT180 w/locals - $49.99 raises to $52.99 (6%)
AT180 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $66.99 raises to $69.99 (4.5%)

AT120 w/o locals - $34.99 raises to $37.99 (8.6%)
AT120 w/locals - $39.99 raises to $42.99 (7.5%)
AT120 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $56.99 raises to $59.99 (5.2%)
AT120 w/locals & 3 Receivers - $49.97 raises to $52.97 (6%)

AT60 w/o locals - $24.99 raises to $26.99 (8%)
AT60 w/locals - $29.99 raises to $31.99 (6.7%)
AT60 PLUS w/locals - $34.99 raises to $36.99 (5.7%)

It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)
Also for those of us on the higher end packs, I grow tired of my increases subsidizing the cheaper packages so that someone can get in on the entry level package for $30.00 or less! I think we ought to spread these increases more evenly across the board. If its fair for me on the high end, its fair for the little guy on the low end too.Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%. :D

JL

Mike123abc

12-28-04, 08:54 PM

Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.
EG:
AEP w/locals & 1 Reciever - $82.99 raises to $86.99 (4.8% increase)
AEP w/locals & HD & 2nd Reciever - $97.97 raises to $101.97 (4.1%)

AT180 w/o locals - $44.99 raises to $47.99 (6.6%)
AT180 w/locals - $49.99 raises to $52.99 (6%)
AT180 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $66.99 raises to $69.99 (4.5%)

AT120 w/o locals - $34.99 raises to $37.99 (8.6%)
AT120 w/locals - $39.99 raises to $42.99 (7.5%)
AT120 w/locals & HBO Cinemax - $56.99 raises to $59.99 (5.2%)
AT120 w/locals & 3 Receivers - $49.97 raises to $52.97 (6%)

AT60 w/o locals - $24.99 raises to $26.99 (8%)
AT60 w/locals - $29.99 raises to $31.99 (6.7%)
AT60 PLUS w/locals - $34.99 raises to $36.99 (5.7%)

It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)
Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%. :D

JL

You are forgetting that last year AT60 did not have a price increase and AEP had a $3 price increase. This year AT60 got a rate increase, but AEP also got a rate increase. AEP is really getting hit since the movie packages did not change price. AEP just has the honor of paying $4 more for AT180 while AT180 only folks only had a $3 price increase.

As noted above Dish has shot past my local cable company. I know a million will want to chime in that their cable company has a lousy picture and is more expensive, but I bet if you look at the top packages for cable vs AEP you will find Dish has moved ABOVE the average price of the top packages nationwide. This is especially true when you consider the bundling of internet and HDTV packages.

How Dish stacks up in top markets AEP vs cable top tier:

NY (CVC) Dish 4 cents higher

LA (TWC) Dish $7 more expensive

Houston (TWC) Dish $12 more expensive

Chicago (comcast) one area Dish $3 more expensive, one area Dish $7 more expensive

Cincinatti (TWC) Dish $3 more expensive

Throw in internet bundling and cable beats the pants off Dish in these large markets. With these price increases Dish is giving the top end customer to cable (and yes cable with their high priced analog packages are giving the low end of the market to Dish).

rocatman

12-28-04, 08:59 PM

Supers and Premiums are not going up. Technically speaking, the total increase is LESS if you subscribe to add-ons that are not rising.

It seems that the MORE you are currently paying E* the less the increase actually is, in percentage. (And the little guy gets the biggest boost?)
Yep. Make it 5.5% across the board instead of giving AEP subscribers a 4.8% increase and AT60 subscribers 6.7%. :D

JL

It would be interesting to calculate the percentage increases for the last two or three years. I believe with AT60 not having a price increase for the prior year or two would make the results quite different in terms of percentage increases.

kwajr

12-28-04, 09:13 PM

i think this might explain why they need to increase revenue http://modulusvideo.com/main.php?action=item&Page=22&id=6

James Long

12-28-04, 09:45 PM

It would be interesting to calculate the percentage increases for the last two or three years. I believe with AT60 not having a price increase for the prior year or two would make the results quite different in terms of percentage increases.Got a calculator? :D

AT50 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $21.99
AT50 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $22.99 (4.5% up over '01)
AT50 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $24.99 (8.7% up over '02, 13.6% over '01)
AT60 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $24.99 (no change)
AT60 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $26.99 (8% up over '03, 17.4% over '02, 22.7% over '01)

AT100 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $30.99
AT100 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $31.99 (3.2% up over '01)
AT100 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $33.99 (6.3% up over '02, 9.6% over '01)
AT120 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $34.99 (2.9% up over '03, 9.4% over '02, 12.9% over '01)
AT120 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $37.99 (8.6% up over '04, 11.8% over '03, 18.8% over '02, 22.6% over '01)

AT150 May 2000 w/o locals - $39.99
AT150 Feb 2001 w/o locals - $39.99 (no change)
AT150 Feb 2002 w/o locals - $40.99 (2.5% up over '01)
AT150 Feb 2003 w/o locals - $42.99 (4.9% up over '02, 7.5% over '01)
AT180 Feb 2004 w/o locals - $44.99 (4.7% up over '03, 9.8% over '02, 12.5% over '01)
AT180 Feb 2005 w/o locals - $47.99 (6.7% up over '04, 11.6% over '03, 17.1% over '02, 20% over '01)

AEP Creation 2001 - $69.99
AEP Feb 2002 w/o locals - $72.99 (4.3% up over '01)
AEP Feb 2003 w/o locals - $74.99 (2.7% up over '02, 7.1% over '01)
AEP Feb 2004 w/o locals - $77.99 (4% up over '03, 6.9% over '02, 11.4% over '01)
AEP Feb 2005 w/o locals - $81.99 (5.1% up over '04, 9.3% over '03, 12.3% over '02, 17.1% over '01)

Rates from http://ekb.dbstalk.com/17

Over the last four years: AEP up 17.1%, AT180 up 20%, AT120 up 22.6%, AT60 up 22.7%
Over the last three: AEP 12.3%, AT180 17.1%, AT120 18.8%, AT60 17.4%
Over the last two: AEP 9.3%, AT180 11.6%, AT120 11.8%, AT60 8% (frozen)
2005 increase: AEP 5.1%, AT180 6.7%, AT120 8.6%, AT60 8%
It's payback time for the freeze, but the low end packages are still increasing at a faster percent rate over time.

All based on base packages w/o locals. Having locals or any other add-on generally LOWERS the percentage increase (as shown in previous post).

JL

bavaria72

12-28-04, 10:47 PM

Got a calculator? :D...

JL you are the bomb (and sick by the way!). Can you do the same thing for D*?

Geeke19

12-28-04, 10:50 PM

:lol: I don't even remeber my email address I signed up with on Dish Networks website its been like 6 years I can remeber the password but not the email address :lol: I still like Dish Network Better than Direct tv!

Tyralak

12-29-04, 01:17 AM

It's normally not proper etiquette to shout at people. It also helps to use some punctuation once in a while.

Kwajr has no use for punctuation! I don't think I've ever seen him use it.

Tyralak

12-29-04, 01:21 AM

It's $3. Get over it.

$3 here, $3 there, it starts to add up.

Tyralak

12-29-04, 01:32 AM

You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - Art

Untill E* changes over to MPEG4 for new HD, then your 921 becomes a $900 doorstop.

Jacob S

12-29-04, 01:38 AM

It looks like Dish Network is raising twice as much as inflation. Remember when they did a comparason of their rate increases to other things like the rise in milk, cable competition, etc? It looks like an average of 5-7% a year. I cannot even get that kind of interest for having money in the bank let alone make up for the inflation if people got a raise in pay to make up for the rate of inflation. It IS starting to add up.

garypen

12-29-04, 03:10 AM

You are right to a point Gary but the hardware costs could cause it to tip back into E*s favor. HR10-250 vs. 921. And the bugs seem to be dwindling. - ArtOr, you could get an HD DVR from Comcast for $10/month which includes the HD Pack (including HD locals and regional sports nets.)

kwajr

12-29-04, 06:08 AM

They are also having trouble with there hd dvr. and i hey there is period

ds650

12-29-04, 06:34 AM

Untill E* changes over to MPEG4 for new HD, then your 921 becomes a $900 doorstop.

Not true, some I hear are using them as boat anchors also.

Chris Blount

12-29-04, 07:42 AM

Mike Richardson

12-29-04, 09:37 AM

How Dish stacks up in top markets AEP vs cable top tier:

Houston (TWC) Dish $12 more expensive

Throw in internet bundling and cable beats the pants off Dish in these large markets. With these price increases Dish is giving the top end customer to cable (and yes cable with their high priced analog packages are giving the low end of the market to Dish).

Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:

Let's see, Digipic 4000 is $75. Add $10 for the DVR (regular rcv'r is $7). Add $3 for movies plus and $3 for sports plus, to make the packages equivalent. $40 for cable internet (RR with digipic discount). $131 for cable.

For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total.

TVs Cable DISH
1 $131 $129
2 $138 $134
3 $145 $139
4 $152 $144

With 4 TVs I think I'll stick with DISH in the Houston market. Hell I could even take one of the TV and put it on analog cable and DISH would still be less. (but that would be unfair comparison)

cboylan3

12-29-04, 11:25 AM

Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.

Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing

thx

Chris Blount

12-29-04, 11:29 AM

Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing

thxDon't know for sure. On the other hand though, getting around the $5 fee has always been possible if you yell at them enough. :)

Bahnzo

12-29-04, 11:33 AM

Chris - is that for people who may downgrade due to the price increase or is that a permanent thing

thx

I would guess this is for people who want to downgrade specifically due to the price increase.

Mikey

12-29-04, 12:50 PM

... For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total...

$42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).

speedy882001

12-29-04, 01:48 PM

$42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).

Yeh...I am in one of those dead areas that SBC does not service.

Mike123abc

12-29-04, 02:02 PM

Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:

Let's see, Digipic 4000 is $75. Add $10 for the DVR (regular rcv'r is $7). Add $3 for movies plus and $3 for sports plus, to make the packages equivalent. $40 for cable internet (RR with digipic discount). $131 for cable.

For DISH: $87 for AEP+Locals. The DVR fee is waived, and the first receiver is included. $42 for cable internet (earthlink). $129 total.

TVs Cable DISH
1 $131 $129
2 $138 $134
3 $145 $139
4 $152 $144

With 4 TVs I think I'll stick with DISH in the Houston market. Hell I could even take one of the TV and put it on analog cable and DISH would still be less. (but that would be unfair comparison)

Well you get an HD DVR from the cable company, this costs you $550 from Dish... With 4 TVs in your chart showing Dish saving you $8/month it would take $550/8 or 68 months to break even... You are also adding $7 HD boxes which you cannot get from dish without paying $$. You also need to add $10/month for dish HDTV and $3/month to TWC which essentially erases any advantage Dish had since the digital packages from TWC included 16 base HD channels of which of course Dish has 0 HD programs in AEP.

Even in your case if you look at total money outlay it would take many years for you to come out ahead with Dish... But, wait your 921 will become a doorstop by that time... ouch... And if you add in HD pack you lose even more... Plus of course you do get a bunch of free TVs with analog cable channels thrown in by TWC, and if you pay the $$ for a cable card ready TV it only costs $1.50/month, dish still charges you $5/month and a DVR fee if you do not get AEP...

Where is the value from Dish?

garypen

12-29-04, 02:12 PM

Assuming just one TV in the house (all cents rounded up), with a cable modem, one receiver is a DVR:
<snipped numbers and stuff>
Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
Comcast Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
Total $83
Hardware is free, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.

Dish AT180/locals $53
HD Pack $10
HBO $14
DVR Fee $ 5
Warranty $6
Total $90
Hardware is currently $600! (Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)

Plus, with cable, one can always connect the cable directly to add'l TV's in the house for FREE analog channels. Also, no dishes and OTA antenna.

I'm not saying that cable is always the better value for everyone, everywhere. But, the difference is no longer quite so clear cut.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Comcast also offers $25 off for the first 16 months (a total of $400) to switch from Dish. So, for the first 16 months, my area Comcast is $58 vs. Dish's $90. Some people may find that a better value.

garypen

12-29-04, 02:12 PM

They are also having trouble with there hd dvr. and i hey there is periodOnce again, in English please.

Darkman

12-29-04, 02:48 PM

"They are also having troubles with their HD DVRs, and I hear there is a period....." :D

or: "They are also having troubles with their HD DVRs, and...Hey! ...there is a period....." :D

Darkman

12-29-04, 02:53 PM

Unless some are having troubles with their monthly.. cycle :)

Who knows.... :rolleyes:

Mike Richardson

12-29-04, 03:10 PM

$42? Dump the cable internet and go SBC DSL for $27 (assuming you're in an area in Houston that can get it).

Can't get DSL in this part. SBC was too damned cheap to put in the lines correctly (and they only put them in November 2002, new development). If I could I would have switched the instant it became available.

Anyway the $27 price is for their 1.5/128 service while Earthlink is 3.0/384. SBC's 3.0/384 service is $37 (still cheaper).

Mike Richardson

12-29-04, 03:17 PM

Plus, with cable, one can always connect the cable directly to add'l TV's in the house for FREE analog channels. Also, no dishes and OTA antenna.

A TV with plain crappy analog channels is not a fair comparison to a TV with a DBS or Digital Cable receiver.

Eventually cable companies are going to discontinue the extended analog channels - the space they use up is valuable. One analog channel equals about one satellite transponder, so in one analog channel space they can fit 10 - 12 digital channels, 2 - 3 high def channels, and many other data services. Therefore to get anything worthwhile you will need one of the currently rare digital cable-ready TVs (and cable companies usually still charge you a fee to connect those), or a digital cable box.

Mike Richardson

12-29-04, 03:20 PM

Well you get an HD DVR from the cable company, this costs you $550 from Dish... With 4 TVs in your chart showing Dish saving you $8/month it would take $550/8 or 68 months to break even... You are also adding $7 HD boxes which you cannot get from dish without paying $$. You also need to add $10/month for dish HDTV and $3/month to TWC which essentially erases any advantage Dish had since the digital packages from TWC included 16 base HD channels of which of course Dish has 0 HD programs in AEP.

Even in your case if you look at total money outlay it would take many years for you to come out ahead with Dish... But, wait your 921 will become a doorstop by that time... ouch... And if you add in HD pack you lose even more... Plus of course you do get a bunch of free TVs with analog cable channels thrown in by TWC, and if you pay the $$ for a cable card ready TV it only costs $1.50/month, dish still charges you $5/month and a DVR fee if you do not get AEP...

Where is the value from Dish?

What the hell? I wasn't talking about HDTVs or 921... just SDTV. All the TVs in my house are new, I am not gonna buy new TVs just to get crappy cable card.

In my situation DISH is cheaper, that's all there is to it. Hell I didn't even factor in DHA, you could save another $5 off of DISH with that plan.

shilton

12-29-04, 04:03 PM

Here is an update:

The increase *WILL* take effect Feb 1. Not March.

Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.Ok, assuming that is true and correct, that tells me that Dish is anticipating people downgrading or in other words realizes there may be fallout from the seemingly high percentage of increase...so why not take steps to minimize it? If they know people will downgrade then they know the increase is too high. Am I looking at this the wrong way???

STL FAN

12-29-04, 04:10 PM

Is it possible this increase is preemptive so they can take a swing and buy VOOM? Just thinking out loud, but it would be a great way to justify the increase.

garypen

12-29-04, 05:00 PM

A TV with plain crappy analog channels is not a fair comparison to a TV with a DBS or Digital Cable receiver..Of course not. Never said it was. I was comparing apples to apples, one receiver only. I was only pointing out the added value that one can still get the analog channels for free on add'l TV's. For many, that would be good enough. For instance, when I had digital cable, I had 2 digital receivers for the BR and LR, and the office and loft had analog directly into the TV's.

Since I now have my 721's RF output wired to the whole house (the Svid to the HT, and an 811 also wired to the HT), I will probably only get one dual-tuner HD DVR, if I switch to Comcast, as I am used to being setup that way with the 721.

Eventually cable companies are going to discontinue the extended analog channels - the space they use up is valuable. One analog channel equals about one satellite transponder, so in one analog channel space they can fit 10 - 12 digital channels, 2 - 3 high def channels, and many other data services. Therefore to get anything worthwhile you will need one of the currently rare digital cable-ready TVs (and cable companies usually still charge you a fee to connect those), or a digital cable box.That's a long way off. But, when it comes, I'll simply use one or two boxes for the whole house, as I do now with Dish.

OTOH, Comcast is adding digital simulcasts of the analog channels right now, so that digital subs don't suffer from the grainy PQ of analog. It's gonna look way better than Dish locals, I'll tell you that. Comcast already has all the local network affiliates DTV broadcasts in HD and SD. It'll be nice when they add the rest of my locals' DTV broadcasts via digital signal.

wkomorow

12-29-04, 05:09 PM

I appreciate the fact that there are people on fixed income for which any increase is an issue. For them, I am sorry about this increase. However, for the majority of people currently getting AEP isn't the real issue that they feel they are not getting anything more for their 4 extra dollars than the $4 itself. Isn't this more a public relations issue that can be off-set by adding some good channels, than a truly economic issue.

Given the hassle of getting a new provider (staying home for an installer, for example) and given the fact that $4 a month really is not that much money for most people with AEP, I really do not see massive defection or downgrading.

musicmaker2020

12-29-04, 06:32 PM

Well I just downgraded from AEP to AT180. I just cant see paying those rates.

One thing I would like to point out is if you are willing to pay in advance you can avoid the increase for a year by paying annually before the increase. Not to mention its cheaper going annually over current rates to begin with.

finniganps

12-29-04, 06:44 PM

Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
Comcast Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
Total $83
Hardware is free, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.

Dish AT180/locals $53
HD Pack $10
HBO $14
DVR Fee $ 5
Warranty $6
Total $90
Hardware is currently $600! (Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)

Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR. If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison. First of all the warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's?

finniganps

12-29-04, 06:56 PM

Another price comparison, but for those who use DSL for ISP, and live in one of the most expensive Comcast areas (SF Bay Area), using a single DVR receiver:
Comcast Digital Silver $73 (Equivalent to AT180 with HBO)
HD DVR Fee $10 (includes HD Pack, HD Locals, HD RSN)
Total $83
Hardware is free, including free upgrade and lifetime warranty replacement.

Dish AT180/locals $53
HD Pack $10
HBO $14
DVR Fee $ 5
Warranty $6
Total $90
Hardware is currently $600! (Was $1000, and lacks much of the functionality of the Comcast HD DVR)

Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR. If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison. First of all the Dish warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1. In my area, Comcast was charging $1-$2/mo. for EACH remote as of June 2004...no charge for Dish on this. As you said, people might want to look at it, but I don't think it's compelling right now. The other thing to consider is that CABLE raises their rates EVERY year, Dish doesn't.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's?

BobMurdoch

12-29-04, 08:06 PM

Okayyyyy, so D* adds NBC HD, FOX HD and will be adding ABC HD soon.

E* loses CNN International and doesn't replace it, AND will be increasing prices.

So basically they have ceded the more reliable equipment award to D*, have ceded the HD programming award to D* (yeah, right.... YOU are the HD leader, E*, eh Chuckie?), and NOW they are whittling away at whatever price advantage they had. (I KNEW those Viacom and TNT renegotiations were gonna bite us in the tuckus eventually)

My two year commitment is up in November 2005 after being with E* (and defending them a lot) since May 2000. I'm losing faith fast. I like the Sirius channels but it ain't enough anymore.

Rick_R

12-29-04, 08:19 PM

DirecTV will have an increase too. Thge only question is when and how much. Dish has had an increase every Feb 1st for the last 3 or 4 years. Last year it was only $.01 for my AT120 package and $0 for the AT60 package.

By the way, when I left the local Comcast cable (now sold to Adelphia) in July of 2000 I paid $48 for 40 channels plus locals.

Rick R

garypen

12-29-04, 09:08 PM

Gary - let me know when you switch and how you like the cable DVR. I certainly will.
If you have no intention of switching, then I don't think you should make the comparison. Ummm. Why not? That makes no sense. Haven't you heard of research? Are you so happy with Dish that you do not look into alternatives?

First of all the Dish warranty historically can be added whenever you want....there's no indication that will change, so I'd drop that from the comparison. This drops the difference down to $1. You're right. $1 per month and $600 for the Dish HD DVR.
In my area, Comcast was charging $1-$2/mo. for EACH remote as of June 2004...no charge for Dish on this. In my area, it's $10/month for HD programming, DVR fee, HD DVR receiver, and, believe it or not, the remote. (I use a universal, so the last point is moot.)
As you said, people might want to look at it, but I don't think it's compelling right now. The other thing to consider is that CABLE raises their rates EVERY year, Dish doesn't. It's certainly compelling in my area. Plus, hasn't Dish raised their rates pretty regularly these last few years? My local Comcast digital package rates appear to be the same for a few years now. Perhaps they finally get the whole competition thing. The $25 discount for former DBS customers is a nice perk too.

I'd like to hear from someone who actually has USED the Comcast DVR. Some people say they're good, others say they're junk compared to the Dish DVR's. It would be great to hear from someone who had a Dish DVR and now has a Comcast DVR or vice versa......Anyone out there who actually used one of the Comcast DVR's? I am also interested to hear from them. I did read 74 pages of the Comcast 6412 w/iGuide thread over in AVS Forums. The 6412 certainly isn't perfect. But, it's by no means the debacle that the 921 was upon release. (The major issue is some units have bad power supplies causing random and frequent reboots. Luckily, they just swap 'em out. No special warranty or shipping charges needed.) It appears that it is currently about as reliable, if not moreso, than the 921 which has been out now for what? 2 years? (BTW, the 6412 has active firewire outputs.) The two things that seem lacking in the current software are full program search functions, which can also be done with a USB keyboard on my 721. (I'd miss that.) And, no PIP. (You can swap between tuners with a single click, though. Plus, both tuners are always buffering. No need for a special combination of keystrokes, like with the 721.)

BTW, how's the 522 doing nowadays? They ever get that one to work right?

James Long

12-29-04, 09:25 PM

JL you are the bomb (and sick by the way!). Can you do the same thing for D*?Got a source for historical DirecTV pricing?

JL

bavaria72

12-29-04, 10:14 PM

Nah, never kept track (with D* from 97 until 03).

Tyralak

12-29-04, 10:22 PM

BTW, how's the 522 doing nowadays? They ever get that one to work right?

Great. I install at least one a day, and they're consistantly the best performing unit. The customers love them.

chaddux

12-29-04, 11:08 PM

Great. I install at least one a day, and they're consistantly the best performing unit. The customers love them.

I *heart* mine. :)

garypen

12-29-04, 11:25 PM

Excellent. I understand they were frought with many problems not too long ago. Which SW update did the trick?

Did they ever officially start selling/leasing them to existing customers?

dont24

12-30-04, 06:11 AM

I am also interested to hear from them. I did read 74 pages of the Comcast 6412 w/iGuide thread over in AVS Forums. The 6412 certainly isn't perfect. But, it's by no means the debacle that the 921 was upon release. (The major issue is some units have bad power supplies causing random and frequent reboots. Luckily, they just swap 'em out. No special warranty or shipping charges needed.) It appears that it is currently about as reliable, if not moreso, than the 921 which has been out now for what? 2 years? (BTW, the 6412 has active firewire outputs.) The two things that seem lacking in the current software are full program search functions, which can also be done with a USB keyboard on my 721. (I'd miss that.) And, no PIP. (You can swap between tuners with a single click, though. Plus, both tuners are always buffering. No need for a special combination of keystrokes, like with the 721.)

I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues. I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412. Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it. I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO. I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote :mad:

Tyralak

12-30-04, 07:44 AM

Excellent. I understand they were frought with many problems not too long ago. Which SW update did the trick?

Did they ever officially start selling/leasing them to existing customers?

It must have. The NBR also works wonderfully. They will lease them to existing customers, but only if you've been a customer for at least year, and commit to another year.

Mike Richardson

12-30-04, 08:19 AM

It must have. The NBR also works wonderfully. They will lease them to existing customers, but only if you've been a customer for at least year, and commit to another year.

Where did you hear this? I am a DHP (old lease) customer with AEP and I'd love to save $5 per month and get rid of two 301s.

garypen

12-30-04, 09:56 AM

I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues. I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412. Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it. I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO. I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote :mad:Thanks man. That sort of stuff really helps people make a decision. In my area, the 6412 is only $10/mo. But, even at $15, it's probably better than paying $550 for a 921, plus the $5/mo DVR fee.

BTW, the so-called mute bug is probably a design feature. It prevents damage to your sound system, or waking people up at night, when it turns on for unattended recording. The workaround is to leave the power on, or program a receiver mute toggle command into your remote.

Chris Walker

12-30-04, 04:09 PM

Paul Secic

12-30-04, 04:13 PM

i think this might explain why they need to increase revenue http://modulusvideo.com/main.php?action=item&Page=22&id=6
My guess: blame it on the NFL & NBA!

Tyralak

12-30-04, 04:26 PM

Where did you hear this? I am a DHP (old lease) customer with AEP and I'd love to save $5 per month and get rid of two 301s.

They talk about it constantly on channel 101. They call it the "Dish'n it up" plan.

Bobby94928

12-30-04, 04:30 PM

Wow, they are jacking the prices up $3 on a package that they have added NOTHING to and even lost a channel(CNNFN)? I am gone from E* when my billing cycle is up if this happens and new legitimate channels (Bingo or MallTV don't cut it Chuck) aren't added.

I say this every year at this time, the time of the year that rates go up. You have a job, and put out the same productivity year in and year out. Do you expect a raise? Someone has to pay for that raise, it's the consumer!!!

shilton

12-30-04, 04:33 PM

My guess: blame it on the NFL & NBA! All I ask is why are those of us who could care less about the NBA or the NFL having to pay for it year after year. These channels really are beginning to price themselves into the realm of being considered premium channels. Sooner or later they are going to have to be treated as such and the people who want them can pay for them and those who don't won't have to. I can tell you if ESPN and the Fox Sports channels were dropped today I'd never even notice. I know not everyone feels this way, but these channels are just not the same as Lifetime or any of the others people gripe about. I don't watch them either but they are not driving up my rates that high. The whole sports world is out of line with these neverending players salaries and we the customers who may or may not watch should not have to foot the bill. Time to put them into a tier of their own or make them PPV's

Paul Secic

12-30-04, 04:41 PM

Chris Freeland

12-30-04, 07:08 PM

Here in Chattanooga Comcast just today, just announced a price increase of $2.50/mo for Preferred Basic, which is now $43.75/mo and will soon be $46.25/mo for 65 analog Chanel's, 8 of which are locals. Compare E* AT60w/locals for $29.99/mo, soon to be $31.99/mo, C* Preferred Basic has a slightly better line up but not $14/mo extra and AT120w/locals for $39.99/mo soon to be $42.99/mo has not only more channels then Preferred Basic but has the quality too. If you add Digital Plus, it is an additional $14.95/mo or a total of $78.70/mo soon to be $61.20/mo, E* AT180w/locals at $49.99/mo soon to be $52.99/mo is still a much better value here then Comcast.

Nick Graham

12-30-04, 08:35 PM

They get The Horror Channel, I'll gladly pay the increase. They definitely seem to be losing momentum to D*, even without factoring in the increase. Now that I have finally acquired an HDTV, I plan on getting some HD programming once my current committment is over. Whether I stick with Dish or move to DirecTV is squarely in Dish's hands. Is the current quality of Dish HD broadcasts as shoddy as I've read it is?

Jacob S

12-30-04, 10:03 PM

Unfortunately not everyone gets a pay increase to make up for the inflation so when prices goes up and everything adds up, it means having to cut something out for those that go from check to check not saving anything back having all of their money spent every payday.

garypen

12-30-04, 11:53 PM

I'm on a fixed income and I'm not downgrading, or saying I'm going back to cable. Everythings going up. I enjoy History Intl Hallmark . I think people here like to grip My PG&E bill is going up? Should I cancel it? Heck no!You left out the part where you call the complainers "young whippersnappers".

Moorebid

12-31-04, 08:14 AM

I currently am a Dish and Comcast subscriber. I have a 501, 508, and 510. I'm also using the 6412 on my HDTV, along with the 811. I didn't have any power supply issues.Except for the 508 and 510, I'm in exactly the same boat. (I've also had a 6000 and a 4000, as well as a 921 for 2 weeks back in May, and my Grandma just got a 522, but otherwise, same boat. :)) I also have no power supply issues, and I have two 6412's, one with a Seagate drive, the other a Maxtor QuickView. The Seagate has a more audible whine when the drive spins, but otherwise no difference between the two boxes… they both operate precisely the same (both positively and negatively).

I do have the mute bug issue on the 6412.Not a bug, but it's already been covered here. Just need to have both mute functions programmed into the remote (or else leave the receiver on at all times, which also circumvents the auto-power-down-after-timer-has-ended-even-if you've-already-stopped-recording-and-changed-channels bug).

Other than this bug, I haven't had any issues with it.Unfortunately, I've not been so lucky. Fortunately, nothing extremely major, but irritating nonetheless. First off, guide data regarding new/repeat episodes is woefully inadequate. The OTA's - for the most part - are accurate, but NONE of the cable channels - basic or premium - seem to use the "repeat flag" (or whatever equivalent) whatsoever. This makes "First-Run" NBR recording impossible. Instead, I'm forced to go into "Scheduled Recordings" and manually deselect all the undesirable timers, with which I guess I could live, if it didn't seem to forget every manual deselection I make with seeming regularity every night or so (which may have been temporarily fixed with a reboot, time will tell). I'm basically forced into babysitting all my season passes every day. *shrug* The extent to which we go to ensure we don't miss a thing (and/or waste space).

But that's not the end of it… lets say my season pass records the first showing of a program which airs multiple times during the week (any HBO or Showtime original series fits the bill). It's at least smart enough to know when it's recorded a specific program and not to duplicate what it already has, but if you delete that recording, it'll pick up the same episode again the next time it's on. *shrug* As I understand, this is similar to the way the Dish 522's EBR recording functions.

Also, after a certain amount of time (around two weeks, I estimate), if the box hasn't been rebooted, one of the tuners will cease to be able to display what program is on the channel to which it is tuned, instead displaying "To Be Announced." This makes it impossible to record what is already existing in the buffer; instead, it tunes the other tuner to the same channel and starts recording from live. In order to get around it, one simply needs to pull the plug to reboot the box… simple… right, 'cept then it has to fully redownload the guide data, which takes several hours. *shrug*

Aside from that, nothing major… I've only had one scheduled recording (to my knowledge) that didn't record, and I've no idea why… even after the timer had already completed, it was still listed, although with the name, "To Be Announced." Another timer was scheduled to fire right afterward on the same channel, which went without incident. Bizarre…

I can only compare it to the Dish 5xx DVRs. Dish's DVR menus and search functions are better, IMHO.I don't mind the menus so much, but the 6412/iGuide barely has any search function at all. It's restricted to titles only, it is not keyword based, and it only allows you to punch in the first four letters via scroll-cubes (for wont of a better term; you select a cube, press up and down to scroll to the desired letter/number, then press right to move on to the next cube)… it's a real PITA, but it's at least as responsive while inputting the title as a TiVo, which is more than I can say for Dish's boxes. At least the 5xx series doesn't take too terribly long, maybe 15-20 seconds to fully search the 9 days it has, longer if there's a lot of hits. The 921, OTOH, takes 1-2 minutes, and doesn't display anything until it's completely finished (whereas the 5xx displays as it goes)! But the 522 is FAST, few seconds at most (and it too displays as it goes). How's that for a comparison? :)

I didn't want to pay the $550 for the 921, so I leased the 811. I couldn't get a couple of local HD channels, so I decided to get the Comcast 6412. The 6412 menus and functions took a little getting used to, but it's working great. NBR is also on the 6412, which is another reason I chose it at that time. The one down side is the Comcast monthly rental fees. I'm paying $15.xx for the 6412 and remote :mad:And that's something that gets glazed over a bit, or misreported, or maybe it's just wildly different among regions, but hardware cost is of concern.

If I may get slightly off tangent here from the PVR's and just delve into costs in general, I think we can all agree that for basic, no frills, television service, E*/D* beats Comcast/Time Warner/et. al. hands down… especially when you get into cable's digital service packages, they just don't compete. When you start adding premium packages, however, things start to level out… especially when HDTV comes into the mix, then things are virtually even.

However, hardware costs aren't even close to fair with cable, unless you want an HD-PVR. See, they may give you a standard definition digital cable box (and remote) with your digital cable subscription, but each additional box is $10/mo. That's just ridiculous… when DBS receivers are basically free, and access fees are $5/mo, the least they should be able to do is match that. My grandmother was recently paying $75 for digital standard cable ($59) with two receivers ($10 additional, plus $6 in taxes and other various sundries, another thing about which most people with satellite don't currently have to worry). $75! That same package with Dish would [currently] cost $55 (AT180 + extra receiver). Even better, if you get the 522, it's the same $5 for two TV's, plus VOD service. So that's the route she went, she took the 522, dropped down to AT120 and picked up HBO instead, and after both rate hikes, she'll still be saving ~$20 a month. Even if she'd just rid herself of one of her cable boxes, she'd still be paying $10/mo more with no HBO (though more Encore channels), digital on only one television, and no PVR. Cable just cannot compete with standard digital packages, especially when multiple televisions are involved.

Then there's the HD boxes… an HD receiver (non-PVR) costs an additional $5/mo, that's on top of the $10/mo for a standard receiver. So $5 for the first receiver, $15 for each additional receiver. Compared to the $5/mo lease of an 811, that's still no comparison (ignoring all other factors, like functionality (or lack thereof) of the boxes, picture quality, etc.).

But the HD PVR's… that's where the tables are turned. $10/mo additional for the 6412 ($10 for the first, $20 for each additional) may seem like quite a bit, but as long as the competition keeps selling theirs for $550/$1000, and still keeps charging VOD/TiVo fees on top of their access fees, cable beats 'em hard… especially with price parity on HD programming. That's the only case I can make for cable, the only case where it makes sense… the rest of the time, D*/E* wins the cost war, even with their respective price hikes. But of course, this is entirely variable depending upon your local cable company. And we still have yet to see what the Moxi's are going to cost…

James Long

12-31-04, 11:09 AM

I can't find a site for D* prices as concise as TNGTony's E* price change page, so these figures are taken from old DBSTalk forum posts. If anyone has a better source, please provide!

March 2004 Increase
TC w/o locals - $33.99 to $36.99 (+$3 8.8% up)
TC w/ locals - $38.99 to $39.99 (+$1 2.6% up)

TC+ w/o locals - $37.99 to $39.99 (+$2 5.3% up)
TC+ w/ locals - $39.99 to $42.99 (+$3 7.5% up)

TCP w/o locals - $85.99 to $87.99 (+$2 2.3% up)
TCP w/ locals - $87.99 to $90.99 (+$3 3.4% up)

March 2003 Increase
TC w/o locals - $31.99 to $33.99 (+$2 6.3% up - now 15.6% over pre '03)
TC w/ locals - $37.99 to $38.99 (+$1 2.6% up - now 5.3% over pre '03)

The trick with D* increases is that they have been sliding the cost of locals around - a $6 difference for TC subscribers pre Mar '03 (and $2 for TC+ and TCP) is now $3 across the board.

January 2003 to present
A TC w/o locals subscriber has now seen a 15.6% increase (from $31.99 to $36.99) while an AT120 w/o locals subscriber over the same period has seen 9.4% ($31.99 to $34.99). Due to the locals adjustments, a TC w/locals subscriber in Jan 2003 has now seen only a 5.3% increase (from $37.99 to $39.99 - sock it to those without locals!) while an AT120 w/locals subscriber over the same period saw the same change ($37.98 to $39.99 - E* did their own locals adjustment). D*'s last increase was 2.3%-8.8%, E*'s a month earlier no worse than 4.7%.

When D* announces their next price increase I suspect it will be in line with E*'s increase.

JL

Link

12-31-04, 11:26 AM

A $3 package increase is too much unless they add something to the packages like give AT60 a few extra (worthwhile) channels as well at AT120 and AT180.

Channels like Hallmark and GAC should be in the AT120 now. Additional channels like Fit TV, Ovation, Oxygen, VH1 Country should be in the AT180 if they'll ever add them.

hambone

12-31-04, 11:28 AM

One of the best threads ever. Keep it going.

Jaspear

12-31-04, 12:01 PM

Channels like Hallmark and GAC should be in the AT120 now. Additional channels like Fit TV, Ovation, Oxygen, VH1 Country should be in the AT180 if they'll ever add them.

CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!

James Long

12-31-04, 02:39 PM

CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!CNN fn was in AT120, so if CNNI goes on let's put it at AT120 or AT60? :D thankyouverymuch

I suspect we will see several new channels and AT120 subscribers will get a couple of them as well. AT120 subscribers are getting the largest increase in February: 8.6%, with bumped AT180 6.7% and AEP 5.1% If any group needs to be thrown a bone it is AT120's!

Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.

JL

Cholly

12-31-04, 02:47 PM

You left out the part where you call the complainers "young whippersnappers".
I don't have to agree with Gary :lol:
I'm older than dirt, so I'll call the complainers that.
Hell, 3 bucks a month is sooo much less than the increase you've had to pay for gas for your car in the past year. It's less than the price of a couple latte's at Starbux.
We all need to look at things in perspective. The infrastructure cost per viewer to the dbs companies is far higher than that for the cable companies. Bandwidth costs are far higher.
Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.

TANSTAAFL
:grin:

hambone

12-31-04, 03:51 PM

Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.

TANSTAAFL
:grin:

How can that be the case? The ISP has no way of knowing if you are using a router or not. I suppose it might be technically possible, but a router uses one external IP and routes the traffic through multiple internal IPs. Worse case scenario, you could use internet sharing on your main computer and connect the other PCs that way, assuming you're using Windows.

Link

12-31-04, 04:05 PM

I wouldn't complain on a $3 increase for AT180 if I thought it was worth it. I think $49.99 now is too much for the package now--compared with Directv's equilvalent Total Choice Plus for $42.99. (I don't care if E* gives TMC and Encore channels in this--not worth $7).

I think I'll switch to Top 60 for $31.99. Its not worth $21 more a month to get GAC, Hallmark, and VH1 Classic. Now if they were to add some things like VH1 Country, MTV Hits, etc. it might be worth keeping.

Mike Richardson

12-31-04, 04:29 PM

Re: Earthlink. I have TWC here, and changed from Road Runner to Earthlink last year, not knowing that Earthlink DOES NOT WORK with routers! If you have multiple computers you wish to connect to Earthlink, you must have a cable modem and subscription for each one! Not so with Road Runner.

That's total bull! I have 4 computers connected to my Linksys router connected to Earthlink Cable modem with absolutely NO problems. Earthlink works perfectly fine with routers - who told you it didn't? If Time Warner said it didn't, then they're damn liars - they're telling you crap to get you to buy RoadRunner, so they can get more money.

scooper

12-31-04, 06:33 PM

Even at that - most of the SOHO NAT routers have a feature that will "clone" the MAC Address of a PC.

ClaudeR

12-31-04, 06:45 PM

Does anyone know whether you can drop service without the fee, IF its at the time of a rate increase?

I agree that they SHOULD waive the fee with the increase, it's only fair. D* NEVER charges for package changes. Either that, or we get to make a big stink of it.

Chris Blount

12-31-04, 07:02 PM

I posted this a couple of day ago but I guess it's worth repeating:

Dish Network will NOT be charging subs to downgrade programming (the $5 charge). This issue has been stressed call-center wide, and if anyone runs into a CSR charging this (or getting a bill with this charge), then they should definitly escalate this call to a supervisor.

BFG

12-31-04, 07:07 PM

They should just pull the charge period, but of course that's asking to much...

garypen

12-31-04, 07:41 PM

Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.

JLOh yeah? What kind of bones? You can tell me. It'll be our secret. New channels, or channels trickling down from AT180?

Personally, I think they should make Sundance a part of the base package, instead of the Showtime pack (at least AT180). I believe Comcast does it that way in my area, IIRC.

I'd like to see Hallmark, Nat'l Geo, and Fox Movies, and a few of the other channels found on D's TC pack, move down to AT120, as well.

BFG

12-31-04, 07:46 PM

CSTV, Oxygen, and The starz sampler channel.

Ray_Clum

12-31-04, 09:54 PM

I'm still interested in finding out what Dish's Telco partners (primarily SBC as I am in their area) will do after Dish increases prices.

James Long

12-31-04, 11:04 PM

I'm still interested in finding out what Dish's Telco partners (primarily SBC as I am in their area) will do after Dish increases prices.Probably collect a bigger cut when they pass it on to their subscribers. Tis life.

JL

James Long

12-31-04, 11:42 PM

Oh yeah? What kind of bones? You can tell me. It'll be our secret. New channels, or channels trickling down from AT180?

Personally, I think they should make Sundance a part of the base package, instead of the Showtime pack (at least AT180). I believe Comcast does it that way in my area, IIRC.

I'd like to see Hallmark, Nat'l Geo, and Fox Movies, and a few of the other channels found on D's TC pack, move down to AT120, as well.As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.

Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120.

PIs "The Pentagon Channel" and "New Abilities TV" are warming up on 61.5/148 - but I wouldn't consider them bone channels.

And there is a clamor for CNNI, but that has not yet been uplinked as its own channel and the former CNNfn feed that went to black has now been pulled off of the satellite. That would be a VERY worthwhile bone to some viewers.

The three channels you list would be nice for AT120s as well, but I wonder if good channels are dropped out of AT180 without new channels if it will encourage people to drop down their subscription level and negate the value to E* of the price increase. They need to keep people at their current levels somehow.

As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120. If we got those six having Sundance move to AT180 wouldn't be bad.

CNNI and/or Sundance at AT120 would be icing on the cake.

If it were up to me, I'd raise the "with locals" packages $1 less than the "w/o locals" to narrow the price gap and encourage more people to voluntarily fork over more money by upgrading. D*'s price gap of $3 is a good goal, and when we get to the 2006 increase E* could adjust the w/o locals packs again to reach it.

JL

Bahnzo

12-31-04, 11:48 PM

They should just pull the charge period, but of course that's asking to much...

Here's a valid reason for the downgrade fee: People ordering say HBO just for a night to watch a fight, or upgrading to a package just to watch a channel for a night. The downgrade fee is precisley for these reasons. When the fee didn't exist, people would do this all the time.

Also, not to be nitpicky, but some programming was added this year....Sirius music channels. Sure not exactly what people were asking for, but 60+ channels of music in all styles nothing to sneeze at.

James Long

01-01-05, 12:01 AM

Here's a valid reason for the downgrade fee: People ordering say HBO just for a night to watch a fight, or upgrading to a package just to watch a channel for a night. The downgrade fee is precisley for these reasons. When the fee didn't exist, people would do this all the time.Add line to contract: "Minimum subscription period of 30 days applies to all premium packages." That would be worse than the $5 charge for the people you refer to.
Also, not to be nitpicky, but some programming was added this year....Sirius music channels. Sure not exactly what people were asking for, but 60+ channels of music in all styles nothing to sneeze at.Sirius is basically paid programming. E* is using the 61 channels to advertise the sale of Sirius tuners for cars and homes. Just another "Shopping Channel" - but at least the content is better.

JL

Link

01-01-05, 12:11 AM

Isn't a $3 price increase the largest one E* has done at one time? If I recall, I used to have Top 150 for $39.99, locals/superstations for 7.99 and $4.99 for the other box so $52.97 a month.

Now the same thing 3 years later is going to be $52.99-Top 180/locals, Superstations 5.99, and 4.99 extra box so $63.97.--over $10 more? It just does not seem worth it. Are the two TMC channels plus Encore themes worth $7? Directv's Total Choice Plus w/locals is $42.99 which seems like a better value.

I think with these price increases and customers getting distants cut off, that they will be losing customers to cable and Directv. I know a lot of people keep E* because they get distants unavailable on Directv and if their gone, then the customers probably will be too. Plus Directv is accomodating markets missing WB while E* is charging them the extra $1.50.

I have always liked E* over Directv, but after the recent Viacom dispute and their upcoming price increases, I'm losing confidence in them.

E* puts out receivers with all sorts of bugs and has done poor planning putting locals on second dishes. Now the FCC is forcing them to stop the 2 dish requirement for locals and all customers are having to pay for it.
They won't even put CBS-HD on the main satellites while Directv has added NBC and Fox HD this year and is adding ABC possibly in January. It looks like cable and Directv are getting better while E* is getting worse.

lee120

01-01-05, 01:56 AM

abc-hd is now live on directv!!!

Cholly

01-01-05, 07:13 AM

That's total bull! I have 4 computers connected to my Linksys router connected to Earthlink Cable modem with absolutely NO problems. Earthlink works perfectly fine with routers - who told you it didn't? If Time Warner said it didn't, then they're damn liars - they're telling you crap to get you to buy RoadRunner, so they can get more money.
My experience wasn't that good. What happened with me -- At the time I signed up with Earthlink, I had two computers and my standalone TiVo connected to a D-Link 704P wired router. When connected to the router, I could not configure the system, period. I couldn't access help or any of the radio buttons on the welcome screen. Tried to contact customer support thru the help function but the help function would not work. I couldn't even e-mail tech support Tried calling Earthlink directly and got a message to use online help. There was NO way to talk to a live person to get advice on setting up my system. It was unfortunate, because I really liked the features Earthlink offered. After a week of trying, I gave up and went back to Road Runner. The only bright side was that TWC gave me a $10 discount for a year for going back to RR. :lol:

James Long

01-01-05, 08:18 AM

Isn't a $3 price increase the largest one E* has done at one time?The low end package (currently AT60) has never seen more than a $2 price increase - and it is only going up $2 after the two year price freeze ends.
The 2nd level package (currently AT120) jumped $3.99 in April 1998 when it changed from the name AT50 to AT60 and soon after AT100CD. It has not seen greater than $2 since.
The 3rd level package (currently AT180) has only seen $2 at a time since it was created in 2000. That started at the price you recall ($39.99) and it lasted until Feb 2002 when in was raised to $40.99.
AEP saw a $3 jump in February 2002 and February 2004.

$3 jumps are rare (thankfully) but not unheard of. Note the D* price changes last year as well!

JL

Mike Richardson

01-01-05, 08:47 AM

abc-hd is now live on directv!!!

Where the hell are they getting the bandwidth to put up all of these new HD channels.

Mike Richardson

01-01-05, 08:50 AM

My experience wasn't that good. What happened with me -- At the time I signed up with Earthlink, I had two computers and my standalone TiVo connected to a D-Link 704P wired router. When connected to the router, I could not configure the system, period. I couldn't access help or any of the radio buttons on the welcome screen. Tried to contact customer support thru the help function but the help function would not work. I couldn't even e-mail tech support Tried calling Earthlink directly and got a message to use online help. There was NO way to talk to a live person to get advice on setting up my system. It was unfortunate, because I really liked the features Earthlink offered. After a week of trying, I gave up and went back to Road Runner. The only bright side was that TWC gave me a $10 discount for a year for going back to RR. :lol:

Earthlink and RoadRunner use the exact same modems, and go through the exact same network. The exact same technician installs it, and you pay the exact same place (Time Warner). The only difference is the Earthlink name, your IP resolves to Mindspring (earthlink), and Earthlink e-mail.

There is no earthly reason why Earthlink would not work.

kwajr

01-01-05, 09:53 AM

Earthlink and RoadRunner use the exact same modems, and go through the exact same network. The exact same technician installs it, and you pay the exact same place (Time Warner). The only difference is the Earthlink name, your IP resolves to Mindspring (earthlink), and Earthlink e-mail.

There is no earthly reason why Earthlink would not work.
if you listened to the meassge when you called earthlink you can talk to a person but i find it quicker to call the tw office and follow those prompts to earthlink it gets you through quick

leegart

01-01-05, 09:59 AM

CNN International needs to be put back in AT150 24/7!

We need to keep telling E* that we feel that way!!! What's the point of all these channels if it's just a greater number of the same thing (Home Shopping, Sports, PPV, Discovery Ying Yang, The History Duplication Channel,) without international news stations?! This is where satellite TV can distinguish itself from Cable! Where are CNNi, INN, DW, BBC World, CBC??? CCTV was a good start but ONLY a start. :mad:

hongcho

01-01-05, 01:23 PM

> Where the hell are they getting the bandwidth to put up all of these new HD channels.

From the other channels, of course. :)

But then, their NFL ST HD channels will go away in a day...

Hong.

Jaspear

01-01-05, 01:25 PM

AT150?

AT180 minus all the compelling shopping channels ;)

Anyway, regardless of my ability to keep up with Charlie's marketing department, CNNI needs to be back where it used to be. With CNNI available on weekends and overnight during the week, CNNfn was clearly miss named. CNN corrected that problem by dropping CNNfn. All Dish needed to do was continue with CNNI, which ironically, probably had more viewers than CNNfn.

Moorebid

01-01-05, 11:29 PM

As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120.I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."

Well, that and TiVo…

James Long

01-02-05, 12:29 AM

I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."[/size]If you will pay anything for one channel it makes sense to find the best deal on that one channel.

I looked at the local cable prices last night, or tried to since their analog cable rates are no longer posted. The packages have changed in the past year and Basic Cable (lifeline) is 19 channels: mostly locals, shopping and local origination. Standard Cable (analog) is 59 channels and the last I saw it was the same price as AT120 - about $40. The cable analog channels missing from AT120 are Telemundo, Hallmark, Oxygen, The Golf Channel and Outdoor Life (not to be confused with The Outdoor Channel).

AT120 also includes 22 channels available only on cable's digital tier ($54.99 and up!) and 40 channels not available on my town's cable system at any price (some are shopping and PIs, but that still leaves about 20 valuable channels I get in AT120 that cable doesn't carry AT ALL). Bringing in the five "analog channels" would make this market more competitive, but E* is competing against all cable not individual markets.

Putting Hallmark in AT120 (or AT60) would be a good idea to get the basics back in the simple package and to undercut D* on a really good channel.

JL

garypen

01-02-05, 01:19 AM

As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.

Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120. What do you mean by "warming up"? Dish already has the EncorePlex and Sundance channels. Isn't it just a matter of re-assigning them to AT120, which would open them up the receivers of AT120 subs? I'm not complaining. Just curious. I like the sound of these channels coming down.

And there is a clamor for CNNI, but that has not yet been uplinked as its own channel and the former CNNfn feed that went to black has now been pulled off of the satellite. That would be a VERY worthwhile bone to some viewers. Agreed.

As an AT120 subscriber I'd love to see Hallmark, Fox Movies and National Geographic (all "basic cable" in my town with Hallmark on the lifeline cable level) moved to AT120 as well as have the three additions made to AT120. If we got those six having Sundance move to AT180 wouldn't be bad.

CNNI and/or Sundance at AT120 would be icing on the cake.Oh yeah! Personally, I'd rather have Sundance than the EncorePlex, anyday. They should leave EncorePlex, and some of the other stuff like Discovery "Plex", as the AT180 carrots.

But, Hallmark, FMC, Sundance, and Oxygen would go a long way to placating many a grumpy sub, myself included. Now, all they'd have to do is stop compressing the crap out of the Locals, and offer a working HD DVR for lease. (What's the current "dish" on the 942, anyway?)

leegart

01-02-05, 06:45 AM

Anyway, regardless of my ability to keep up with Charlie's marketing department, CNNI needs to be back where it used to be. With CNNI available on weekends and overnight during the week, CNNfn was clearly miss named. CNN corrected that problem by dropping CNNfn. All Dish needed to do was continue with CNNI, which ironically, probably had more viewers than CNNfn.

Amen.

James Long

01-02-05, 07:07 AM

As noted; Oxygen, Encore MoviePlex and CSTV are warming up bandwidth. Since the multichannel Encore is already part of AT180 placing the new channel at AT120 makes the most sense. The other two are nice new bones as well.

Sundance is also warming up on a test channel (136) where it would make a nice addition to AT120 or AT180. I'm hoping AT120.What do you mean by "warming up"? Dish already has the EncorePlex and Sundance channels. Isn't it just a matter of re-assigning them to AT120, which would open them up the receivers of AT120 subs?Encore MoviePlex is not available to any E* customer at this time (except the usual non-mere-mortals). The individual channels of Encore are in AT180, but MoviePlex is a distinct channel that rotates through the genres - pointless if you have the multi-channel Encore and a perfect fit for AT120.

Sundance is there in the 300's, but it is also on 136 (for non-mere-mortals) which is a good sign that it may be moving down. It should be a mirror using the same bandwidth for both Sundance channels - I have not looked that closely. But the channel number is warming up, and it would be good at AT120.
Hallmark, FMC, Sundance, and Oxygen would go a long way to placating many a grumpy sub, myself included.Agreed - and there are enough signs (as noted earlier in this thread) that there are bones coming.

JL

shilton

01-02-05, 09:38 AM

ehren

01-02-05, 09:52 AM

Hell I could get my Granny Dish if Hallmark wasn't in the freakin AT180 package! But you know how old people are, any channel above 36 is hard to remember.

Mike Richardson

01-02-05, 10:14 AM

Hell I could get my Granny Dish if Hallmark wasn't in the freakin AT180 package! But you know how old people are, any channel above 36 is hard to remember.

My grandma can barely turn on the damn 301. Just about every day I have to go to her room because the actual TV is on channel 59 (which is not even a valid channel) spewing static instead of being on INPUT. Or she got the 301 on but not the TV or vice versa.

red hazard

01-02-05, 01:37 PM

CNN fn was in AT120, so if CNNI goes on let's put it at AT120 or AT60? :D thankyouverymuch

I suspect we will see several new channels and AT120 subscribers will get a couple of them as well. AT120 subscribers are getting the largest increase in February: 8.6%, with bumped AT180 6.7% and AEP 5.1% If any group needs to be thrown a bone it is AT120's!

Fortunately it seems some bones are being prepared.

JL

Last year on the AEP Errguns exceed the cost of inflation on the AEP with a 4% increase and this year it's 5.1%, also exceeding the yearly inflation rate. I'm down grading and if they charge that $5 nuisance fee for down grading, then I'll see what D* has to offer. This is the last straw!
:mad:

Chris Freeland

01-02-05, 02:26 PM

Well, if Dish would just move Boomerang down into AT120, I'd drop my AT180 and the kids would still be happy. Kinda sad, but Boomerang is the only reason I got AT180 in the first place since Cartoon Network has gone to the dogs so badly! I watch all the Discovery stuff, etc but I could live without it. Boomerang even I would miss

That is one reason E* is reluctant to move channels down to a lower tear. E* has done this in the past , Speed for example used to be a AT180 channel and they moved it down to AT120, but this is extremely rare and E* usually does not do this. However since a $3 increase for AT120 and 180 is larger then usual, maybe they will drop a few channels down to AT120, but if they do this some new channels will need to be added to AT180 to keep from too many people from dropping from 180 to 120 and E* will continue to need to make 180 worth the extra $10 over the price of 120.

In my humble opinion E* should reduce the price of locals when bundled with a basic package to match D* at $3, which would mean a $0 increase for AT60/AT60+w/locals, a $1 increase for AT120/180 w/locals and only a $2 increase for AEP w/locals, this might incourage more people to take the locals.

Link

01-02-05, 02:31 PM

I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."

Well, that and TiVo…

I don't understand how Hallmark ever ended up in the Top 180 anyway.

But you're right especially if E* price increase makes the AT180 52.99 that is $10 more than Directv's equivalent Total Choice Plus for $42.99. However, Directv will probabably raise its price a $1 or so, but still $43.99 for all the channels plus locals that Directv gives is a real value over Dish's expensive Top 180.

Paul Secic

01-02-05, 04:29 PM

Mike Richardson

01-02-05, 05:48 PM

I'd like to see Hallmark in AT120 and then add Oxygen to AT180.

James Long

01-02-05, 09:55 PM

I'll see what D* has to offer.D* offered a hefty increase last March. They will likely offer another this coming march. Your choice.

JL

JohnH

01-03-05, 08:38 AM

Noticed there is a click to see info about the new prices on my online account. Also a feedback option.

jeffwtux

01-03-05, 08:45 AM

I agree, Nipper. McCain was threatening the pay tv industry with more regulation if they didn't stop the gouging. I guess it's time to see if he makes good on his word.

If any congressional committee wants to go after the source of the problem, they must start with the sports broadcasters like ESPN, and the RSNs. They are OUT OF REALITY AND OUT OF CONTROL!!! There are simply no market forces that are having any ability to force them to deal with the laws of of supply and demand. Then go after the conglomerates that are forcing excessive bundling.

Link

01-03-05, 09:15 AM

Noticed there is a click to see info about the new prices on my online account. Also a feedback option.

Yes I see that too now. I never received any e-mail or letter from them on the price increases.

Does anyone know what Directv's increase will be. Right now Top 120/locals is $42.99 the same price was Directv's Total Choice Plus/locals--what a joke. Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package.

I'll be going back to 120 or even 60 now.

jeffwtux

01-03-05, 09:21 AM

We need to keep telling E* that we feel that way!!! What's the point of all these channels if it's just a greater number of the same thing (Home Shopping, Sports, PPV, Discovery Ying Yang, The History Duplication Channel,) without international news stations?! This is where satellite TV can distinguish itself from Cable! Where are CNNi, INN, DW, BBC World, CBC??? CCTV was a good start but ONLY a start. :mad:

BBCWorld and CBC?

I'm not sure they have the rights to broadcast those, except for maybe the local Windsor CBC 9 here in the Metro Detroit area and maybe in Buffalo too.(who cares with the NHL hockey strike/lockout eliminating CBC Hockey Night in Canada)

jeffwtux

01-03-05, 09:24 AM

I have a friend who switched from E* to D* because, as he put it, "The Hallmark Channel was costing me an extra $10/mo."

Well, that and TiVo…

I have a VERY DOMB question:

What exactly is on the Hallmark Channel?
Lassie, Little House? What?

BFG

01-03-05, 09:37 AM

I sure hope D* does increase their prices because OMG this is friggin ridiculus!! What an outrageous price increase!! 42.99 for AT120?!? Like link saied D* TC+ is the same price and TC alone still has more channels than AT120

BFG

01-03-05, 09:38 AM

DISH Network has been a leader in product innovations with HDTV (High Definition Television), DVR (Digital Video Recorder) and ITV (Interactive Television).

LMAO!!!

BFG

01-03-05, 09:41 AM

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customer/images/usermanagement/priceIncrease_chart.gif

BFG

01-03-05, 09:41 AM

https://customersupport.dishnetwork.com/customer/images/usermanagement/priceIncreaseFAQ.gif

ds650

01-03-05, 10:03 AM

I sure hope D* does increase their prices because OMG this is friggin ridiculus!! What an outrageous price increase!!

What???!!! Not me, I'm with D*. Just jump ship & join D*.

Bobby94928

01-03-05, 10:06 AM

I have a VERY DOMB question:

What exactly is on the Hallmark Channel?
Lassie, Little House? What?

Try here: http://hallmarkchannel.com/us_framework.jsp?CNTRY=US

BobMurdoch

01-03-05, 10:25 AM

OK, dumb question.....

I'm on Credit Card AutoPay and I get electronic statements instead of a paper bill....

How am I supposed to use this coupon? Do they list an address to use?

rcwilcox

01-03-05, 12:09 PM

My grandma can barely turn on the damn 301. Just about every day I have to go to her room because the actual TV is on channel 59 (which is not even a valid channel) spewing static instead of being on INPUT. Or she got the 301 on but not the TV or vice versa.
mike get an EZ remote that fixes this have same problem with MIL

SAEMike

01-03-05, 01:10 PM

OK, dumb question.....

I'm on Credit Card AutoPay and I get electronic statements instead of a paper bill....

How am I supposed to use this coupon? Do they list an address to use?

You will recieve a letter in the mail announcing the price increase. With this letter will be your ppv coupon and they will attach an envelope to return it in.

To use it, order your ppv movie, and when it appears on your statement (you can check online pretty easily) then fill out the coupon and mail it in, it will show up on your bill like a $3.99 payment.

bavaria72

01-03-05, 01:16 PM

DBSTalk just received word that price increases are coming 2/1/05!...

Dang (it!) Chris, you were right on the money! Good call!!!

catnap1972

01-03-05, 01:20 PM

Yes I see that too now. I never received any e-mail or letter from them on the price increases.

Does anyone know what Directv's increase will be. Right now Top 120/locals is $42.99 the same price was Directv's Total Choice Plus/locals--what a joke. Dish charges $10 more with the 180 to get the same basic channels in D*'s TC Plus package.

I'll be going back to 120 or even 60 now.

I think the safe assumption would be to add a similar increase over there as well ($1 for the lowball package up to $4 for the top end package). I tend to agree with the one or two other posters who said that the 3xx movie channels that Dish throws in with AT180 aren't worth the extra $$. If it weren't for the supers (or if D* added WWOR and WPIX), I'd definitely jump ship.