Dish not even trying to compete??

[dreadpiratk]

Anyone else suspect that Dish isn't even bothering to compete with DTV?? DTV is adding lots of fairly large cities such as los Vegas and Hartford, while Dish continues to say nothing at all about these markets. It just seems curious to me that DTV can announce months in advance wich cities it will serve, while Dish can't tell us what thier doing next week!

No offense to Grand Rapids, but that DMA is half the size of Baltimore, wich Dish still does not serve. At least the order that DTV is adding cities makes sense, largest to smallest, (basically, also haveing skipped Hartford for some reason for a while, but they have is now)

To be cynical, I fear that Charlies is either not going to add the markets that DTV does, thinking that they would not be duplicates after that merger, of that he really wants customers to switch now so that he doesn't have to offer them free equipment after the merger. I strategy that seems likely to backfire if the merger falls through.

If I sound bitter, well I am. I've been a Dish retailer in CT since the beginning, and have been loyal to Dish, refusing to sell DTV. Now they have locals, and YES, and Dish has nothing really to compete with that, and I'm all but out of business, or will be when word gets out.

All we need from Dish is an announcement about when/if they will also have locals, and we could stay in business, but no, everything has to be a great bloody secret with them, they can't give out any information about their plans to anyone. Makes you wonder if even they know what they are doing from day to day.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Hey Dreadpiratk welcome to DBStalk :wave: (I am from Connecticut too)

While it has not been anounced it appears that Hartford will be online when the next Spotbeam goes up. I have talked to two folks from 2 different stations and they said they have been in talks with Dish. I am told that Dish will have a receiving site at MCI at Constitution Plaza in Hartford.

This is unconfirmed but I have heard it from two different people from two different stations.

[Maniacal1]

I'm not in the Hartford DMA, but I'm your neighbor to the great white north. I've always suspected that the reason D* and E* were both slow to add Hartford was that DBS penetration is very low. I remember seeing a chart not too long ago that showed that CT was the state with the lowest market penetration, something like 4% IIRC. (Vermont, on the other hand, was the highest with something like 41% of homes having DBS service.)

It would make sense that the satellite providers would focus on smaller cities with higher DBS penetration as they're adding locals.

I'm glad to see Hartford is being added for you guys. I don't expect I'll see locals for a very long time up here in DMA #105. (But don't cry for me--I'm in a white area.)

[Mark Holtz]

Let dish solve it's existing problems with channels first by getting E*7 and E*8 launched, on-line, and carrying locals, then work on new markets.

[dreadpiratk]

That would be great for those of you who are enjoying local service now, but for the rest of us, it's been a very long wait. In our area antenna simply don't work well unless your'e willing to build a tower, despite what the rediculous database says, so the only solution is cable tv. Granted basic cable plus dish is still cheaper than Cable alone, but people are tired of the vague promises and 'coming soon' message from dish. They want a straight answer on this, even if it is August.

[Scott Greczkowski]

What part of CT are you in?

I am in Newington. I noticed the other night the local PAX Station out of New London began broadcasting in Digital on Channel 34.

I think one big problem we are seeing is that Charlie is gung ho on the Merger and he is putting all his effort into the merger, and is really ignoring his product, while DirecTV is going ahead with things like there is no merger even in the works.

If the merger fails then Charlie will have a lot of catching up to do.

[dreadpiratk]

We're up in Winsted, in the NW corner. Your'e right that Charlie is focused solely in the merger. He seems to be bending over backwards to prove that E* and DTV never really competed with each other, while DTV is moving full speed ahead. Seems like DTv will be in a better position than Dish if the merger does fall through. Apperences can be deceiving though. Basically Dish is a few months behind on the spot beam front due to construction delays. It could be that they just look a lot worse because they refuse to announce anything untill it actually happens, while DTV is willing to tell people thier plans.

You gotta wonder if Charlie will be able to maintain control of Echostar if he isn't able to deliver on the merger.

[Scott Greczkowski]

DirecTV is moving ahead of Dish Network, they have DROPPED their pricing so now they are almost the same as Dish Network, they have come up with new promotions. They have started requiring all new receivers activated to a 12 month contract. They are rolling out new smart cards to everyone.

While Dish is sitting back taking a wait and see approach of if the merger will go through.

Watching the retailer Charlie Chats I can say that the dealers do not seemed to be treated fairly, things just seem to be thrown together and its the local dealer who gets all the complaints from the customer.

Charlie should support the local dealers. But thats another topic. :)

When Hartford is up on Dish I can tell you Charlie will be getting my $5 a month for em! :D

[dreadpiratk]

Hate to say it, but it looks like we may have to switch teams here if we are to stay in business. I simply can't see making it, even for a few months, when dish is at such a big disadvantage. We talked to them today, and they told us that Hartford would be one of the first cities put up on Echo VIII, probably. Maybe. Perhaps if all goes well...... Typical Dish non-answers. Dish will have no problem whatsoever charging us back for every customer that breaks thier contract to switch to DTV, even though it is 100% thier fault for letting the competition get such an advantage.

Our rep at Echosphere actually told us to "stop looking at the negatives"!!! I guess we're supposed to stick our head in the sand and pretend that major deficits are actually advantages like Dish does!! Unfortuneately my creditors tend to look in the negative side when I can't pay my bills!

It's really an amazing contradiction. First they do this big thing with customer retention and good service and so on, then they push thier products into major chain stores like ratshsack where the customer will get the worst service and terrible installs, then they punish the little local retailers who are providing the kind of customer service they want! Obviously Radio shack won't go out of business in the next three months because DTV got the advantage, but we will.

[Scott Greczkowski]

Unfortunately DirecTV just dropped most of the mom and pop retailers a few months ago.

It is bad with the Yes Situation when the Dish Network CEO tells people to go DirecTV if they want Yes. What if someone who takes charlie up on his offer is still in his first year contract? The customer gets whacked with a charge and the dealer gets a chargeback. To me this is not a good thing.

[dreadpiratk]

Did they drop retailers based on size? I understood that they dropped quite a few retailers who had high churn rates, sililiar to what dish has done with thier rating system.

[lee635]

Originally posted by Scott Greczkowski
DirecTV is moving ahead of Dish Network, they have DROPPED their pricing so now they are almost the same as Dish Network, they have come up with new promotions.

Well E* still offers the AT50 at about $23 a month while D* has their entry level service in the $32 range. And here in the Portland, OR DMA, D* doesn't even provide all the major locals -- contract dispute with the CBS affiliate. And D* doesn't offer a rental option, do they? Or a fee free pvr?

Also, E* has been growing at a faster rate than D*. So the issues described in this thread may be somewhat "inside the beltway" comments and not reflective of how customers view the situation.

This reminds me of a conversation with someone who had signed a contract with Wal Mart and was bemoaning how the Mart cut into his margin and was ruining the company. Then they posted the most profitable year ever on something like a 500% increase in sales. And they got the biggest year end bonus in company history. Just goes to show that sometimes the people on the inside are too close to the company to know what's good for it.

[Bhupen]

Count me how many international (beyond Spanish) services DirecTV offers
-1 chinese channel
Thats it.

How about directv trying not to compete!

[invaliduser88]

While, I agree that the merger will help in the long run. IMHO, it won't fix anything at all during this year. Technical incompatibilities will need to be addressed between the two systems. Then one or both users bases will probably need some type of software or hardware upgrade/replacement. At that point, more transponders become available to relieve the compression hell we have been experiencing since Jan. 1. Echostar 7 has helped some...and may help a little more, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Echostar 8 goes up soon. Again, Charlie may just try to fill the extra channels with more shopping channels... :p

[kstuart]

dreadpiratk -

All of this is not particularly relevant to customers.

Perhaps you don't know abou the Forums at:

www.dishretailer.com

[dreadpiratk]

Thanks, I'm aware of dishretailer. I think that the current statagies of the two companies IS relevent to customers, particularly those who are not yet being served with the channels they want. This was the original point of the post. I only mentioned that I was a retailer to explain why I sounded somewhat negative in this post, something I try not to do.

[kstuart]

Well, I think that from the standpoint of current customers, they could (for the most part), care less about locals. (I base this on comments over the past few years in these discussion groups.)

It's mostly the dealers who have to sell NEW customers who care whether their town's locals are available, since Joe Cablecustomer seems to want locals.

[jmeluni]

Originally posted by kstuart
Well, I think that from the standpoint of current customers, they could (for the most part), care less about locals. (I base this on comments over the past few years in these discussion groups.)

It's mostly the dealers who have to sell NEW customers who care whether their town's locals are available, since Joe Cablecustomer seems to want locals.

I agree. I've been a satisfied Dish AT100 subscriber since 1999 and receive locals OTA. My OTA reception is great and therefore, I really don't care if my locals (Syracuse, NY) are added to Dish as I see no reason to pay for something that I can get crystal clear for free. I admit if I had a PVR I'd probably feel different. :D

[Karl Foster]

I know this is a Dish discussion, but I would like to add my 2 cents worth.

While the Dish pom-pom wavers boast about their increasing customer base, it can't be ignored that E* is behind the eight-ball in it's local channel offerings. D* is adding six DMAs immediately, with four more unnamed by the end of the year, while E* is adding one. How can E* add Grand Rapids and not Baltimore or Las Vegas? You can boast all day long, but customers want locals. I think you will see D* have a huge increase in customers with these locals additions.

I have simpathy for Dish retailers in cities where Dish doesn't offer locals. How is Dish to compare with D* in Oklahoma City when D* offers locals and there is no hope of locals by E*. The decision for the customer is pretty easy.

Then there's the 721 issue of $549 vs. $0 for a 2-room Sony UTV system. I know you'll argue that the 721 is a no-fee system. I can use my free UTV's for five years before I pay what the 721 costs for initial purchase, so that argument doesn't wash. What is Dish thinking?

[Mark Lamutt]

I absolutely agree with everything you said, Karl. Dish definitely has a problem in some cities, and the price for the 721 is rediculous.

[AllieVi]

I get my locals from E* and like it that way. Even if I could receive the stations OTA, I would subscribe to them for the seamlessness of the guide. To me, having the program information available along with all the other stations is worth the relatively small charge.

[lee635]

Well Karl, we have to be careful about judging the short term gainst the longer term. These two companies seem to leapfrog past each other periodically. In the near term, D* is adding more locals, but E* has one spotbeam up and another going up in a month or so. So one may expect E* to add locals as well.

I don't agree with your use of the term "bragging" -- I wouldn't characterize your post as bragging about D*'s locals, rather you're simply stating the issues.

The $549 receiver price -- ouch! I won't be buying one those anytime soon. Don't you suspect there will be some deals announced? Isn't that what's been done in the past with previous rollouts of receivers? I would rely more on past precedent than on chit chat in an internet forum that there won't be any deals on these babies....

[Brian Rector]

The $549 price would have to be lowered. IMHO, a more affordable price of $300 would be better to get more receivers out the dealer's door into the customer's hands. A perfect time to have the deals would be around Christmas time. Charlie could even hype up the 721 stating that it would make a great Christmas gift and also throw in some certificates for new subscribers as well.

Even though I am back to cable, I am even thinking of having a room installation of Dish myself again. I do miss some things about Dish (for example, my cable system doesnt have FSTV) and I do miss the Charlie Chats and the Tech Chats.

[Jacob S]

> Since the 301 receivers are $300 right now I dont think Dish is going to offer the 721 for that price, now maybe $400 or $450. They have about a $200 price difference between the dishpro receivers now - $100, $300, $550

> I think that it would be great if Dish would not offer any of the same local channels that DirecTv does and vise versa after going beyond a certain DMA # such as DMA #80 where the number to households drop dramatically. They could take turns that way all DMA's are all added quicker without each one having to duplicate all of the locals. No more business would be lost due to the fact that instead of Dish and Direct both getting business split in each DMA, each one would get all of the customers interested in those locals in each DMA averaging out to be the same. They would work as a team to bring this about without the merger. After all 210 DMA's are brought about in this manner past the certain # DMA then they can each add the remaining that they do not have. This means that past DMA #80 instead of each company having to put up an additional 130 DMA's that it would only have to put up 65 DMA's each.

>Another alliance could be brought about in which SkyAngel could say that they want to bring up some local channels of their own on the 61.5 slot reaching a deal with Dish. This would solve the issue with having to put all the locals on one dish since its a different company selling the locals. This would allow dish to have more locals available and also lower the amount of locals they would have to come up with to be split with DirecTv in bringing about all the local channels making it happen more quickly without a merger if it would not go through. They could allot some space to Skyangel to 148 to do this as well for the west coast feed making a deal with them.