Need some advice on upgrading my system

[whobie]

Hi all,
I have been lurking around here for a few days to try to decide how to go about upgrading my DishNetwork equipment. I currently have an old legacy Twin LNBF dish (pointing at 119) and two Phillips receivers (2700 and 4900 I believe). I have the other 4 TV's in the house receiving the Sat signal via the RCA outputs of one of the receivers feeding into a modulator that ties into the house cable wiring.

I want to upgrade hardware to provide 1) Locals via sat, 2) HD Programming, 3) Separate tuners for each of my 6 TV's. The main location I would like to be HD/DVR. The other 5 don't necessarily have to receive HD although as part of all this I am upgrading all 6 TV's to HD capable units. That's the plan anyway.

I don't have too many specific questions except:
1) What would your recommendations be as to hardware and wiring/switch configs.?
2) This whole digital, analog, EDTV, HDTV and the hundreds of other acronyms has my head spinning. If I upgrade to digital HD capable TV's will I gain any picture quality over my current analog TV's when using a non HD receiver?
3) related to number two - what format is non-HD Dish transmissions - 480i, etc.?
4) Where is the page I found that show all the different satellites, their locations and the stations that originate from them. I was looking at it the other day, forgot to bookmark it and now I can't find it again.
5) Anything else you can think of that may help clear my head!

TIA for your help..........Lee

[SimpleSimon]

Well, unfortunately, as an existing E* customer, you get shafted. You're gonna have to fork out a big chunk of change to get the setup you want.

A1. E* is forcing upgrades to include installation - at YOUR expense. Let them do it.
A2. Some HDTVs will show better, some worse.
A3. ALL NTSC (standard SD) is 480i.
A4. http://www.dishchannelchart.com
A5. You do NOT want a clear head - you're about to enter E* CSR hell.

[boba]

Hi all,
I have been lurking around here for a few days to try to decide how to go about upgrading my DishNetwork equipment. I currently have an old legacy Twin LNBF dish (pointing at 119) and two Phillips receivers (2700 and 4900 I believe). I have the other 4 TV's in the house receiving the Sat signal via the RCA outputs of one of the receivers feeding into a modulator that ties into the house cable wiring.

I want to upgrade hardware to provide 1) Locals via sat, 2) HD Programming, 3) Separate tuners for each of my 6 TV's. The main location I would like to be HD/DVR. The other 5 don't necessarily have to receive HD although as part of all this I am upgrading all 6 TV's to HD capable units. That's the plan anyway.

I don't have too many specific questions except:
1) What would your recommendations be as to hardware and wiring/switch configs.?
2) This whole digital, analog, EDTV, HDTV and the hundreds of other acronyms has my head spinning. If I upgrade to digital HD capable TV's will I gain any picture quality over my current analog TV's when using a non HD receiver?
3) related to number two - what format is non-HD Dish transmissions - 480i, etc.?
4) Where is the page I found that show all the different satellites, their locations and the stations that originate from them. I was looking at it the other day, forgot to bookmark it and now I can't find it again.
5) Anything else you can think of that may help clear my head!

TIA for your help..........LeeThe cheapest answer is switch to Directv as a new customer you can get upto 4 receivers and installation free.

With DISH Network your upgrades are expensive you may qualify for the "Dishin it up" promotion under that you can lease upto two receivers from DISH. You would have to buy the other two, pay for switches and installation. Because your existing equipment is Legacy you should probably replace it to use Dish Pro but that becomes expensive. Switching to Dish Pro Plus might help but you are still going to be in the $1000 range by the time your done and that is not with a HD DVR.

[BobaBird]

Your existing Dish 500 is sufficient for Harrisburg locals (119) and HDTV (110) though the legacy Twin will have to be replaced since it can never support more than 2 tuners. You may want to add a Dish 300 if you qualify for CBS-HD.

1) You can buy a 921 or wait for the 942 to be available to existing customers. Get a DP Twin and DPP44 switch. You'll be able to use your legacy receivers without the adapters and be able to connect 2 dual tuner receivers with a single run of RG6 each when used with the DP Separator. The xx2 dual tuner models have independent outputs for 2 TVs. If you need more outputs you can daisy-chain a DP34 or another DPP44 from the DPP44's satellite pass-through ports.

4) http://www.lyngsat.com which is linked to from http://ekb.dbstalk.com/300

[larrystotler]

E* -

921 $499, bought outright
522 & 311 - $99 or more, leased through E* as DishNItUp promo
DP+44 and DP Twin and 2 seperators and a DP34 for the 5th receiver - approx $300
Keep existing receivers

Grand Total - $900(less if used equipment and E* would replace your 500 Twin with a DP+ Twin and 1 seperator with the 522/311 upgrade for free).

Monthly rate:
AT120 w/ locals - $42.99
additional outlets - $19.97
DVR Fees - $9.98
HD Pack $9.99(1/2 price for 1 year when activating a 921)

Total - $78 monthly - first year, $83 monthly thereafter


D* -

HD TiVo - $1000
Triple Sat Dish - $50
4 standard receivers - free with installation
5th standard receiver - $50 approx.
Powered 4x8 switch - $100 retail.

Grand Total - $1200

Monthly rate:

Total Choice - $41.99
Add outlets - $24.96
DVR Fee - $4.99
HD Pack $10.99(free for the first 3 months)

Total - $72 first 3 months, $83 thereafter

Upgrade to Total Choice Plus - $45.99 - get Premier for 3 months - add $4 monthly.

[whobie]

Thanks for all the good info. If I may pursue BobaBirds line of thinking a little further:

Your existing Dish 500 is sufficient for Harrisburg locals (119) and HDTV (110) though the legacy Twin will have to be replaced since it can never support more than 2 tuners.
I currently do not have a Dish 500. The Legacy Twin is on a 18 inch dish. So first off I need to get Dish 500 and and the DP Twin LNB you mentioned. That gets me 110 and 119 for locals and HD and various others.

Now wiring:
Get a DP Twin and DPP44 switch. You'll be able to use your legacy receivers without the adapters and be able to connect 2 dual tuner receivers with a single run of RG6 each when used with the DP Separator.
Seperator and Diplexor are the same thing, correct? Does using a single run of RG6 and seperating to the two tuners limit in any way what the tuners can receive simultaneously. For example, Tuner 1 watching a channel on 119 and tuner 2 watching something on 110? Wouldnt I need to have two seperate cables coming from the switch to do this?

And lastly, if I would get a Dish 500 and a DP Twin off Ebay and install it say with my legacy receivers could I immediately begin receiving authorized channels off 110 with out dealing with Dish CSR? In other words, do I have to be authorized to receive from the new satellite or just the channels off any satellite? Does that make sense?

Thanks LarryStotler for the price quotes. I just flipped back over to the thread before submitting this and saw your post. I wonder how willing E* will be to deal in order to keep a long time customer. Will be interesting to see. I can be very persistent!

[larrystotler]

If you only have an 18" dish, then you have a dual LNB and not a Twin. A twin contains 2 LNBs and a builtin switch. You can be upgraded to a D500 Free of charge at anytime, and it can also be done when you do the upgrade. If you get a D500 yourself, you will automatically get any channels in your current package when your receivers see the 110. The AT60 is pretty much all on the 119, but if you have the AT120 or higher, and/or movie channels then you are missing some channels......

A Diplexor is a device used to combine a cable or OTA signal from 40-850Mhz with a sat signal from 950-2150Mhz.

A DP+ Seperator is used with a DP+ switch so that you can run 2 different sat signals down the same line. With a legacy system, you use 2 different voltages to send 1/2 the signals at a time down the 950-1450Mhz band. With DP, the odds are left on the original 950-1450Mhz band, and the evens are reversed and "stacked" on the 1650-2150Mhz band. With DP+, the dual tuner receivers(322/522/721/921/942) are able to use 1 wire from the switch by having tuner 1 use the 950-1450Mhz band, and tuner 2 uses the 1650-2150Mhz band. This helps with the installation of the system where the house is wired with only 1 coax line. With more than 1 sat location, a switch is required so that the receiver can get the sat and transponders that it requests. A list of switches:

Legacy: SW21, SW42(discontinued), 500 Twin, 500 Quad, SW44, SW64.

Dish Pro(DP): DP21, DPTwin, DP Quad, DP34

Dish Pro Plus(DPP or DP+): DP+ Twin, DP+ 44, DP+ Seperator

xx21 switches combine 2 sats for 1 receiver. Twins can handle 2 receivers. Quads can handle 4 receivers. Twins and Quads are for 2 sats, 110 and 119 only. SW44 connects 2 sats to 4 receivers, and SW64s connect 3 sats to 4 receivers. DP34s connect 3 sats to 4 receivers and DP+44s connect 4 sats to 4 receivers. DP+ switches can drive 2 tuners in 1 receiver per port.

[BobaBird]

Seperator and Diplexor are the same thing, correct?In concept, yes. In fact, the DP Separator was originally called a DP Diplexer. I suspect the name was changed because as larrystotler explained the DP Separator is designed to work with a different frequency range than an off-the-shelf diplexer.
Does using a single run of RG6 and seperating to the two tuners limit in any way what the tuners can receive simultaneously. For example, Tuner 1 watching a channel on 119 and tuner 2 watching something on 110? Wouldnt I need to have two seperate cables coming from the switch to do this?No. Not if you have a DP Plus switch and the Separator. A DP switch sends all transponders from a single satellite to the receiver. The dual tuner receivers tells the DP Plus switch which transponder set from which satellite to leave in the lower range and which to stack in the upper range.
And lastly, if I would get a Dish 500 and a DP Twin off Ebay and install it say with my legacy receivers could I immediately begin receiving authorized channels off 110 with out dealing with Dish CSR? In other words, do I have to be authorized to receive from the new satellite or just the channels off any satellite? Does that make sense?Two issues here. Legacy receivers can not be connected directly to a DP LNB or switch (note that above I was talking about a DP Plus switch) without a DP adapter. Once you can see 110 you will automatically be able to see any subscribed channels.

[Bill R]

The cheapest answer is switch to DirecTV.

He asked about upgrading his DISH system, NOT changing vendors. Boba, you are really becoming an annoying TROLL. You hi-jack just about every thread from someone that has a question along these lines.

[larrystotler]

He asked about upgrading his DISH system, NOT changing vendors. Boba, you are really becoming an annoying TROLL. You hi-jack just about every thread from someone that has a question along these lines.

Perhaps, but it never hurts to have all your options laid out for you. The OP may not have considered D*, but may now do so since I broke it down for him....... Choice it what makes this stuff fun.

[Bill R]

Perhaps, but it never hurts to have all your options laid out for you.

Yes, but does he need to do it in just about every frickin thread where some DISH subscriber asks about upgrading? Everyone knows that they can switch and if they had questions about that they would ask.

[KingLoop]

In your case the very best advice I could give is to wait on your upgrade. No matter what you do, upgrade with Echo, or switch over to Direct. As far as HD is concerned both companies are in a transition. They are changing their current M-PEG 2 Technology over to M-PEG 4. What this means to you and all current HD consumers is an equipment upgrade in the future. As far as I can tell, this M-PEG 4 will not be software upgradeable. So you can shoot your wad now only to be faced with more cost in the near future (Less than a year I'd guess.) Also the 921s are still problematic and God only knows what problems there will be when the 942s finally do come out. The high def TiVos are still M-PEG 2 as well. I'm content to wait myself (Especially give Echo's track record). After M-PEG 4 maybe the 942 will be ok who knows, the main question is, Do you want to spend alot now and who knows how much later or spend later and have a better idea the cost involved to be content for a while?

[whobie]

Two issues here. Legacy receivers can not be connected directly to a DP LNB or switch (note that above I was talking about a DP Plus switch) without a DP adapter. Once you can see 110 you will automatically be able to see any subscribed channels.
Yes, Boba. I caught that, thanks. I was not specific enough in my question. I should have added "with a DP+ switch". It's all in the details!

I think I am currently leaning towards holding off on the HD side of things for now. As much as I want to jump into the fracas it just seems to be too much of a moving target right now. Probably go with a Dish 500/Twin DP LNBF/a DP+44 switch/a couple 522's/a couple separators. That will get me the 6 tuners I am looking for (counting my two legacy) plus position for future jump to HD and also get me my locals. Which brings me to another thing I don't get. Why does D* publish that Dish 500 is required for locals. If mine are on 119 why couldn't I order them now?
In your case the very best advice I could give is to wait on your upgrade. No matter what you do, upgrade with Echo, or switch over to Direct. As far as HD is concerned both companies are in a transition. They are changing their current M-PEG 2 Technology over to M-PEG 4. What this means to you and all current HD consumers is an equipment upgrade in the future. As far as I can tell, this M-PEG 4 will not be software upgradeable. So you can shoot your wad now only to be faced with more cost in the near future (Less than a year I'd guess.) Also the 921s are still problematic and God only knows what problems there will be when the 942s finally do come out. The high def TiVos are still M-PEG 2 as well. I'm content to wait myself (Especially give Echo's track record). After M-PEG 4 maybe the 942 will be ok who knows, the main question is, Do you want to spend alot now and who knows how much later or spend later and have a better idea the cost involved to be content for a while?
Thanks for the advice. I am somewhat concerned about all the problems and bugs with the 921. From what I read every time the do a sofware release they fix some things and break a few others. I am a 25 year systems programmer and if I performed that way I would be on the street! I have been wishy washy on the whole HD thing and I am leaning towards holding off like you said.The set up above will get me 2 of my three goals being locals and all 6 TV's with their own tuner. Don't know if I want Super Dish or not. I have to look at what is on 105 and 121 to see if it is worth it.

Maybe you all could comment on something else for me while I have your attention: When OTA channels and Cable Companies all go digital they say if you have an analog TV you will need a converter box. Obviously the down link from a Sat is digital but are the outputs of these Sat receivers analog not digital since we view on an analog TV? Does the 522 have a digital output for when I start upgrading all my TV's? What is the viewing difference between analog out and digital out. This whole digital versus analog versus HD and ED plus all the changes and their meanings really get me confused sometimes. Just when I think I am getting it.....poof..... I read something that blows my understanding away!

Thanks!