DVR-942 Review Discussion [Archive]

lionsrule

03-18-05, 05:32 PM

Thanks for the in-depth review....a labor of love I can see.

I few comments and observations.....

I'm sure I'm in the minority, but........ I still don't see the 942 as a reason to get rid of my 921. Unlike most reading this, I have NOT had many problems with my 921.

The ONLY thing (for me at least) that the 942 has me jealous for is the ability to view all of our PVR'd programs from our upstairs bedroom. Even this ability comes with headaches though since it would require a THIRD coax to be run BACK from the 942 to our upstairs bedroom. (The first two were a bitch enough as it was.....). Also, I do NOT currently have ANY of my receivers connected to a phone outlet and I really don't want to since there are no convienent outlets near my TV's. (Anyone know if the phone outlet in a power strip would work?)

As far as some of your "down" sides to the 942 go....

Two of them are currently deal-breakers for me:

NO Analog viewing....unacceptable
NO changing of aspect ratio....reminds me of my 811 when I first got it...ANNOYING!!!

Hope you enjoy your new toy!!!

BFG

03-18-05, 06:52 PM

Quick question, it was probably in the review, but I'm a visual/kinesthetic guy so mainly just read the pictures.

So is the only thing that's widscreen on TV1 is the program guide? Meaning will all the menus etc still have black sidebars on TV1?

Scott Greczkowski

03-18-05, 07:04 PM

Yes I would find the no changing of aspect ratios to be a pain.

Overall well written review Mark.

I did not see this in the review, but how does the 942 handle a 4 x 3 HDTV? One of the things I like about my VOOM box is it can output in native resolution so the SD shows take up the entire screen, while the HD stuff is nicely letterboxed.

Mark Lamutt

03-18-05, 07:14 PM

BFG - all menus are widescreen. There are no black bars on TV1.

Scott - The 942 has the 4x3#1 and 4x3#2 settings like the 6000, for the 4x3 HDTVs that have vertical compression and the ones that don't. Do they work? I have no idea...my HDTV is 16x9. When I watch SD programming in SD on TV2 (connected to a SD input on my HDTV), I use the 4x3#2 setting so that the output is framed correctly for me to use my TV's stretch modes.

Danny R

03-18-05, 07:15 PM

Yeah, how these receivers handle variable input formats really needs to be fixed, and thus far nobody's done it to my liking yet.

As I suggested before for the 921, I'd like to see a simple menu going through the four standard formats (1080, 720, 480p and 480i) and for each, offer an option on what the prefered output mode should be to TV1.

Thus for my 4x3 TV with HDTV compatability, I could select 1080 and 720 to output in 1080 mode (my sony doesn't support 720), and 480p and 480i to always output in 480p mode. With such a simple menu setting, I'd never have to toggle any mode settings ever.

Scott Greczkowski

03-18-05, 07:16 PM

One other question, how hard is it to switch from SIngle to Dual mode?

I am thinking of putting TV 2 in my baby's room this way he can watch his Noggin shows in there and when he comes in our room can continue watching up there. (And at night after hes sleeping I can switch it back to single mode so all my shows record with both tuners)

Mark Lamutt

03-18-05, 07:19 PM

Danny - that's one of the feature requests that I've already asked for.

Scott - you have to press the Mode button on the front of the receiver. You can't make the change with the remotes (yet).

lionsrule

03-18-05, 07:22 PM

The review stated that single vs dual mode can only be changed on the front panel of the machine

BFG

03-18-05, 07:22 PM

So why exactly didn't they do the internal ota tuner split? Is it because of places like Denver that have low power, that would cut the signal in half? I think I read your analogy on that before.

Mark Lamutt

03-18-05, 07:23 PM

Bryan - "because it's a satellite receiver with OTA capability, not an OTA receiver with satellite capability" was very close to the answer that I've heard...

I'm going to be offline most of the rest of the night, so go ahead and post your questions, and I'll get them answered as soon as I can. :) I've asked most of them myself, and have most of the answers.

I put a lot of effort into this review (more than 100 hours of writing). If you take the time to read it all, I think that you'll find that I've anticipated most of the questions that you'll ask. :)

cclement

03-18-05, 08:01 PM

Thank you very much Mark for the detailed review. Is the buffer still 2 hours? Sorry if I missed it in the review.

mrdectown

03-18-05, 08:05 PM

No Dvi?

Neil Derryberry

03-18-05, 08:29 PM

hdmi only, but you can convert that with a cable.

Altaman

03-18-05, 09:14 PM

hdmi only, but you can convert that with a cable.

Well seeing as I have read sooo many people that do not want the 942, maybe they will make it up north here sooner so I can get one for my BEV system ;)

Alt

BobJ2004

03-18-05, 09:50 PM

This is by far the best and most detailed review I have ever seen for a DBS product. Way to go Mark.

How about someone write one up for the new 625 due out the same time. It has different software code than the 522, there are differences, some are major. Any one seen one yet so they can write something up.

Mark can you write one up on the 625 also please?

Jacob S

03-18-05, 09:56 PM

I wish that one could switch the user mode with the remote. I dont get why they did not make that possible on the 322, 522, and the 942 from the getgo.

BobaBird

03-18-05, 10:02 PM

Two questions:

1. Does it do what I call "Browse Plus" like the 522 does, meaning can you browse across the whole guide or are you limited to current and next programs? (sec 3.1.1)

2. How many timers can you have? (sec 3.2.7)

Mark Lamutt

03-18-05, 10:26 PM

cclement - the buffer is one hour for each tuner, and no they can't be combined.

BobJ2004 - I know very little about the 625, and won't be getting one, so it'd be tough to do a review on it. I thought that it was exactly the same code as the 522, though, except with VOD enabled. What else is different?

Bobabird - I can go forward in Browse all the way to the end of the guide. I assume that's what you mean by "Browse Plus"? There is a timer limit, but I haven't hit it yet. Once you start throwing Dish Passes into the mix, it starts getting difficult determining how many timers you actually have set at any given time. I think it's something on the order of 250 or so, but I'll try to find out.

larrystotler

03-18-05, 10:33 PM

Excellent review Mark. Hey, I thought you were going to bed.............

Anyway, I must say that it looks like E* is going to keep using the 322/522 UI. What I saw in your review was basically a 522 with the HD added on. While it's a nice interface, I still like my 721's better. I'm willing to bet that they are still using Linux as well. I'm also willing to bet that the OS is stored in NVRAM since it boots up so fast. Kinda like it is in the last state mode of a laptop sleep. While it does have some neat features, I think I'll still look forward to eventually obtaining the 921 since I do not have a home phone and haven't had once since 1997. Hopefully, they will manage to fix most of the 921's problems and make it much more stable.

BobaBird

03-18-05, 10:36 PM

I can go forward in Browse all the way to the end of the guide. I assume that's what you mean by "Browse Plus"?That's what I mean. A nice feature enhancement unique to the 522 that is now being added to the 942 and presumably 625. Now about those 50x and x21 models...

Nepenthe

03-18-05, 10:40 PM

Excellent review, very hands on orientated. One thing your review missed was a review of the overall video quality using this box.

- Could you add some information on the video quality of Dish HD channels using the 942 vs 921 or DirectTV comparison?

- How was your experience with OTA HD video quality?

- The spec of the 942 claims it up-converts SD to HD formats, did you notice an improvement in the overall picture quality vs a standard dish receiver?

Thanks!
Nepenthe

Mark Lamutt

03-18-05, 11:28 PM

Nepenthe - I can't compare the quality of Dish HD channels vs Directv HD channels because I don't have Directv. And, I can only compare HD video with component cables, as my television doesn't have DVI or HDMI. But, that said, to my eyes the 942 produces a slightly sharper, more vibrant picture than the 921 produces. The difference isn't noticible when viewing Dish HD channels, but is perceptively noticible when viewing 19.2 MB/s 1080i OTA channels. Neither the 942 nor the 921 have an OTA picture as sharp as the picture from the 6000, but the 942 is slightly better than the 921. And, the 942 doesn't blow out the black level like the 6000 does.

And, upconverting SD to HD. You'll recall in my review that the picture quality of the composite video TV2 outputs is better than the S-Video output from my 921. And, when viewing SD channels at 1080i output from the 942, the result is pretty good. Not as good as outputting at 480i and letting my television do the scaling, but still pretty good. Once again, I'd say slightly better than the 921, but not much.

BFG

03-19-05, 12:07 AM

Finally had the time to read the whole review. Good job mark and thanx for the time spent on the review. Wish I could test out that stuff, lucky guy ;)

It is kinda silly how the 16x9 content is squished on TV2 output, why didn't they just assume the the TV2 would be 4X3 and letterbox HD. I guess I can see the hassle they're saving them by not having to program zoom modes for the TV2 feed, because if they did, they'd have to have zoom modes for normal, squish, or full zoom to remove any widow boxing the letterbox would cause. most of the previous applies for TV1s HD/digital zooming, I guess there is a lack of code for both.

Moorebid

03-19-05, 02:52 AM

Fan-fu*king-tastic review, my man! You are truly a DBSTalk icon.

I only have one area with which I might disagree:

You can’t watch digital OTA channels on the TV2 output when running in Dual User mode. This was obviously a business decision to encourage you to subscribe to your DISH NetworkTM locals package, not a technical limitation.While I don't deny the incentive for Dish to pressure you into subscribing to your locals via Dish (why else would they require you to subscribe just to get the guide data?), I believe this one could be explained away as "a business decision as a result of a technical limitation," that limitation being the single OTA tuner. If they were to allow TV2 to make use of it, they'd have a quagmire of a conflict resolution solution on their hands, deciding who gets access to it, under what circumstances, etc. I'm actually glad they made that decision, it saves us the hassle of putting up with their butchery of a workaround. :lol:

Now if there'd been 2 OTA tuners, and they still imposed this limitation, then I'd agree with you, and complain profusely! I may be watching on an SDTV, but I still want to see the HD source. :rolleyes: By the time they implement that, though, I hope they add an HD output for TV2.

Again, good stuff and I thank you profusely!

Altaman

03-19-05, 05:20 AM

As a Bell ExpressVu subscriber in Canada, I was waiting patiently for informaiton on this receiver. As you may or may not know BEV was going to bring in the 921 but decided against it due to the problems with the receiver apparently.

The 942 is supposed to be coming to Canada some time in the future (near hopefully) and if BEV can get it out quickly they will be the first Satellite provider in Canada to have one. If the 942 is as good as it seems in Marks review then I can see that BEV will definately have the receiver out sooner rather than later. The only thing about the 942 that I would have liked is HD out of TV2 as well, that way I could have fed my WS TV upstairs and my projector downstairs. This is the only flaw I see with the 942 other than having only 25 hrs recording for HD as that is really a BARE minimum of recording time.

Thank you Mark for the review, it gives me one more bit of ammo to pressure Bell to get this receiver into my hot little hands :)

Alt

Altaman

03-19-05, 05:28 AM

Todd G.

03-19-05, 06:07 AM

Mark,

Does the 942 have the guide data for local adjacent DMA stations?

Thanks,
Todd

deweybrunner

03-19-05, 06:31 AM

pjm877

03-19-05, 07:05 AM

Mark,

So let me see if I fully understand this part of the review: If the 942 is not connected to a standard phone land line so the unit can connect with a Dish server you get charged an extra Fee :nono:

What is Dish trying to protect, what is with this "Big Brother" attitudes? I don't PPV, I don't bet on the horses (can't anyway from Texas). I don't even like the DVR fee but have resolved that if I want the new features, the DEVIL must get the extortion payoff.

How many here have a phone line connection in there Home Theater room. Cordless phone yes maybe (and you really don't want this). I had fun (i.e. Hell) setting up my Tivo devices for PVR function on my cable line (there are just somethings Dish just does not broadcast yet). They are now wireless 802.11b connections so that the guide information can be retrieved, and they get there marketing viewer data (and I don't like this at all)..

I can see a server connection on "Leased" systems, but just.

Now another pet peeve. pay monthly for software.

I mean pay for the DVR software Monthly... how many here use Microsoft Windows as there operating system... how much each month do you send Bill Gates and the boys use it. This DVR software is no different, you can argue all day, but this won't change the fact that the cost of the software should have been included into the price of the unit. What is the monthly fee you pay for the software in use in your microwave oven? Next there is going to be an extra $4.98 usage fee for the Harddrive.. So I have a device (computer) that has functions that require software to use, I can only get that from Dish. I know of another company that did the same thing and almost lost their shirt.. can you say IBM. Think about it, this not any different. you have bought a computer, you are forced to use only there software, this is no different than what IBM was doing in the early 70's with the "Big Iron", and it almost made them have to break up the divisions just like ATT&T was required to.

Sorry for the long note.. better git off. Going to watch a nice movie on my Mits 65" and THX2 ultra though 8 speakers.., see you later in cyber space..

Y'all have a nice day..

lionsrule

03-19-05, 07:41 AM

zubinh

03-19-05, 09:02 AM

Thanks for the awesome review. Anyplace where I can find a comparison of the 942 and HR10-250?

This just might be the product dish needs to bring back people (like me) from D* who left because of the unreliable 921.

BobJ2004

03-19-05, 09:36 AM

Two Points

1. PHONE LINE- they do this so you dont get several boxes than then share with your brother and father in law. Some get 3 boxes use one and split the Dish bill with other family members. The 1-800 call in line has forced caller id.

2. D* vrs E* comparision.

I left Dish for D* and have a HDTV Direct Tivo right now. If someone can get me a 942 as soon , I can compare.

I will be a new customer as I have a new address and my wife will sign up.

I do not like the Tivo due to the super slow guide and the poor guide layout and the fact the channels are all over the place (I cant find things).

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 09:43 AM

It is kinda silly how the 16x9 content is squished on TV2 output, why didn't they just assume the the TV2 would be 4X3 and letterbox HD. I guess I can see the hassle they're saving them by not having to program zoom modes for the TV2 feed, because if they did, they'd have to have zoom modes for normal, squish, or full zoom to remove any widow boxing the letterbox would cause. most of the previous applies for TV1s HD/digital zooming, I guess there is a lack of code for both.

I think that it's a Broadcom driver issue that's currently preventing the letterboxing of the 16x9 output. The 811 can do it now, there's no reason the 942 shouldn't be able to as well.

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 09:46 AM

Does the 942 have support out of the box for the DPP-SW44? If I understand correctly all previous receivers required a software download to support the switch. I have a DPP-Twin and DPP-SW44 hooked up (and a separator waiting in my drawer) and hope that I will not have to do any fancy stuff to get an initial download.
Alt

Yes (or so I've been told - I have cascaded DP34s, so I can't verify).

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 09:48 AM

Does the 942 have the guide data for local adjacent DMA stations?

I believe so, but haven't been able to verify yet. With my nearest DMAs 75 miles to the south and 90 miles to the north, it's tough for me to pick up their signals to test. I'm in the middle of trying to do the same test on the 921, though, so I may have results by the end of the weekend (potentially).

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 09:50 AM

I have a new second hdtv, widescreen tv in another room. Will I be able to receive hd from the 942 to this set, or will it just be sd? I now have a 921 and was thinking of splitting off a signal to this set. I want hd from one or the other tv, not both at same time? Mark, thanks for a great review. Just makes me want one more! Just hope they will have some sort of program for current customers.

The TV2 output is SD only. But (at least in the current software) both the HDMI and Component connections from TV1 are live at the same time, so if one of your sets has DVI/HDMI then you could connect both with your TV1 outputs (depending on how long your cable runs would be, etc.)

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 09:57 AM

Forgive me if this has been asked and answered elsewhere, but in your review you mention that this box has basically a better OTA tuner. Specifically, did it increase your percentage of power for digitals when compared to your 921??

It's difficult to do a direct comparison between the 921 and 942 OTA signal strengths because their scales measure different things, and are on a different scale. The 942 scale is 0 to 100, and requires a signal strength of about 61 out of 100 (in my case anyway) to get a signal lock. The 921 requires a SS of about 65-70 out of 125 to get a signal lock.

Now, comparing the weakest station in Denver between the 921 and the 942, on the 942 I receive this station with an 80 out of 100 signal strength. On the 921, I receive this station with an 80 out of 125. But, even though that looks like the 942 is doing a better job, you can't make that assumption because it's not comparing apples to apples.

I know that the OTA receiver in the 942 is a later generation once than is used in the 921, and I think that it does a better job in most areas. I'm not yet convinced it does a better job in multipath rejection than the 921, but in other areas, I think that it is a more robust receiver.

chastulsa

03-19-05, 10:19 AM

Mark,

Sorry if I missed this answer. Is the guide slow when scrolling? The HD Tivo is horrible. I have a 510 and love that speed!

Thanks!

Chas

Danny R

03-19-05, 10:33 AM

Danny - that's one of the feature requests that I've already asked for.

Ok, I thought I just read that you just asked for the ability to pass through the signal. Thats not quite the same thing, as I wanted the ability to set default conversions, although it should certainly be one of the options in the menu.

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 10:45 AM

Sorry if I missed this answer. Is the guide slow when scrolling? The HD Tivo is horrible. I have a 510 and love that speed!

The scrolling speed on the Standard and Enhanced guides is even faster than it is on the 921 (which is blazing fast). The scroll speed on the Extended guide is a little slower than the 921, but not by much. Which is still about 1000x faster than the Tivos.

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 10:47 AM

deweybrunner

03-19-05, 10:56 AM

Mark, my second hdtv, widescreen has both dvi and hdmi. Thats great. Want one when we can get an upgrade for current customers!

the_bear

03-19-05, 04:18 PM

Mark,

Can you watch OTA that has been recorded from TV2? Can you set an OTA timer from TV2?

If you have a variable attenuator, can you tell the difference between when the 921 and 942 tuners by attenuating the signal until the receiver loses its lock. This will give you the difference in db for the receiver sensitivities.

When outputting 720p from 1080i, are both frames of 1080i converted, or only every other frame like the 811 does?

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 04:41 PM

the_bear: Wow, good questions. The only way TV2 can access OTA channels is if the 942 is in Single User Mode. In Dual User Mode, the channels don't exist from TV2.

I think that I might have a variable attenuator (one from Radio Shack with the dial on it). If I get some time, I'll give it a shot.

And I have no idea about the 1080i conversion to 720p. None at all.

sbturner

03-19-05, 04:59 PM

I see that it seems to have to same pip function as 721 and 522, I guess no split screen. What if your tv has split screen can you utilize it with one on OTA channel and the other sat.? Also what kind of OTA antenna is recommended to recieve both analog(I know 942 can't see those yet) and digital signals from sixty miles away? Give me some options. By the way good review and I definitely want one just need a good upgrade deal. Thanks

Mark Lamutt

03-19-05, 05:59 PM

sbturner - the question about your television P&P...you could set it up so that the TV1 output is displayed on one side of your split screen, and the TV2 output displayed on the other side of your split screen I suppose. From 60 miles away, I'd get the biggest antenna you can find and put it up as high as you can on top of your roof. A lot of people like the DB8 and the Channel Master 4228 from that distance. Both are 8 bay bow tie antennas.

Moorebid

03-20-05, 06:15 AM

Can you watch OTA that has been recorded from TV2? Can you set an OTA timer from TV2?The only way TV2 can access OTA channels is if the 942 is in Single User Mode. In Dual User Mode, the channels don't exist from TV2.That answers the second question, but it doesn't address the first where he's referring to its ability to view recordings from an OTA source, which I believe was mentioned somewhere as a workaround to the limitation (set TV1 to record the OTA source, start playback of the recording from TV2).

SimpleSimon

03-20-05, 09:44 AM

Oh Mark!

Does the 942 have support out of the box for the DPP-SW44? If I understand correctly all previous receivers required a software download to support the switch. I have a DPP-Twin and DPP-SW44 hooked up (and a separator waiting in my drawer) and hope that I will not have to do any fancy stuff to get an initial download.

Thanks,

Alt
Please don't confuse the newbies with your nomenclature.

The SW44 was an early switch that allowed a pair of Legacy Dual LNBFs to provide the same outputs as a Legacy Quad (which did not exist at that time).

A DPP44 is a DishProPlus switch, and no doubt what you meant.

Question back to you though. Why do you have a DPP Twin when using a DPP44? That's overkill at least, and can cause trouble, too.

Ron Barry

03-20-05, 10:21 AM

Review Update:

There is one thing that I forgot to put into the review (which I've now edited):

There currently is not a Discrete OFF remote command. There is a Discrete ON of sorts, because when the 942 is in standby, you can press Select to turn it on.

Ouch!!! Hopefully they are working on this. So there is just a toggle command then to turn the unit on and off. That can be problematic for universal remotes for sure.

Mark Lamutt

03-20-05, 10:35 AM

That answers the second question, but it doesn't address the first where he's referring to its ability to view recordings from an OTA source, which I believe was mentioned somewhere as a workaround to the limitation (set TV1 to record the OTA source, start playback of the recording from TV2).

That's not the way I read his first question. Yes, both TV1 and TV2 have access to everything recorded on the receiver, so yes - TV2 can view OTA programs that were recorded (or are in the process of being recorded) using TV1.

Altaman

03-20-05, 11:13 AM

Question back to you though. Why do you have a DPP Twin when using a DPP44? That's overkill at least, and can cause trouble, too.

Actually the DPP-Twin is supported by the DPP44 switch, the switch supports DP/DPP LNBF's. As to why I have the DPP-Twin & the DPP 44. The Satellite is going to feed a 811/510/942(w/separator)/301...I know I could have gone DP, but I always buy the latest when I buy to ensure of no problems down the road.

Alt

Moorebid

03-20-05, 06:18 PM

That's not the way I read his first question.Yeah, it is phrased a bit oddly, you need to look at it like this: "Can you watch 'OTA that has been recorded' from TV2?" Not "Can you watch OTA 'that has been recorded from TV2?'" Besides, that question makes no sense… why - presuming one could watch and record OTA content on TV2 - would you not be able to watch that content afterward? Kinda defeats the purpose of recording it, wouldn'tcha say? ;)

musicmaker2020

03-20-05, 07:52 PM

2 Questions

1) Is it possible to get a detail list of fees in comparison to say a 721? From what I am seeing now I would pay $5 extra reciever fee + $5 DVR fee + $10 HD pack + $5 in locals + $5 if I didnt hook up a phone line. So in all I would pay up to $30 a month to have this puppy. If its leased is that another $5? For me that translates to $15 more a month on my bill because I would pay the DVR fee and HD pack. All these fees are as confusing as my local phone and wireless service with their list of fees tacked onto their service. :nono2:

2) Since I sub to the locals already anyway does the Tuner's have access to the Dish SD locals?

Thanks a million in advance Mark!!!!

Mark Lamutt

03-20-05, 07:57 PM

MM2020 - your fee breakdown is correct, although you don't HAVE to sub to the HD Package if you don't want to.

Yes, both TV1 and TV2 have access to the Dish local channels. The only channels that TV2 won't have access to are the local digital OTAs (and probably analog OTAs as well).

musicmaker2020

03-20-05, 08:02 PM

Wow that was fast. So the lease fee is on top of the extra reciever fee?

So you dont have to sub to the HD pack. Thats kind of sweet if you dont want the couple or so channels. Something for me to consider. I just would love to record the OTA honestly. There is not enough channels IMHO to warrent the HD Pack.

THANKS!

BFG

03-20-05, 08:08 PM

no, the lease fee replaces the extra receiver fee, and if you're leasing you DO have to have the HD pack, but not if you're owning.

musicmaker2020

03-20-05, 08:11 PM

I see. That kind of makes the lease a little sweeter. Guess I will just have to wait till May 1st for the details.

As you can tell im on the fence as to lease or own :) .

And Mark as a token for all the hard work you have done I have just sent in a donation to DBSTalk as a thank you. I have been reading here for about 1.5 years and the information here is superb. Thanks again.

Mark Lamutt

03-20-05, 08:12 PM

Thanks mm2020!

jakattak

03-21-05, 11:29 AM

Mark,

First off, solid review. The review covered so many questions I had about this box. I'm going to wait until May to get one (vacation mid-May and I've waited this long for one, I can wait another 8 weeks or so) so hopefully some of the bugs, etc. might start surfacing (all the 921 bugs reported on these boards saved me from buying one of those.)

I did have 1 question about the box that I got a little confused about after reading through the review and susequent posts...

If you set it up for widescreen, what happens to SD prgramming? Does it get stretched to fit a widescreen format, or does the 942 place its own black boxes on the side, or does it send the appropriate signals to the tv to adjust the aspect ratio (similar to several set-top OTA tuners out there)? Just trying to figure out if I have this set up, am I going to be toggling through aspect ratios on either my tv or the 942 when I watch SD programs.

Thanks

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 11:59 AM

jakattak - if you have the 942 set to 16x9 output mode on TV1, in Normal mode, SD material has black bars on both sides. In Stretch mode, it is linearly stretched to fill the screen. In Partial Zoom mode, it is linerarly stretched horizontally, and linearly stretched about half has much vertically. In Zoom mode, it is linearly stretched the same amount horizontally and vertically. In Gray Bars mode, it has gray sidebars applied by the 942.

With my television, if I am outputting 1080i from the 942, I can't use my television's aspect ratio controls. I can use by television controls only with a 480p or a 480i signal (which I can set the 942 to output over component or HDMI from TV1.

jakattak

03-21-05, 12:16 PM

jakattak - if you have the 942 set to 16x9 output mode on TV1, in Normal mode, SD material has black bars on both sides...

That's what I was hoping :)

In Gray Bars mode, it has gray sidebars applied by the 942.

That will be an option I never select. I never liked grey bars (avoided Mitsubishi TVs for that very reason.)

With my television, if I am outputting 1080i from the 942, I can't use my television's aspect ratio controls.

When running 1080i from an OTA tuner on my set, the tuner controls the aspect ratio, but the tuner also includes a DVD player that upconverts to 1080i and when playing DVDs it loses control over the aspect. 'sounds like the 942 acts exactly the way I hoped it would. Here's hoping it doesn't start suffering similar issues to the 921 as right now, it sounds like this box is perfect for my needs.

Thanks for the reply, Mark.

sbturner

03-21-05, 12:29 PM

Ok if my tv has DVI and HDMI what is the best to use and will the 942 come with those cables if I wanted to connect say HDMI to HDMI? If I use HDMI I know that video and audio goes through if that is so what happens if I also connect the optical digital out? Will I also recieve audio for my digital surround sound? Also I know that CBS uses SRS circle surround on HD sports I don't have that on my audio system. does DISH convert this to Dolby Digital 5.1?

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 12:39 PM

I don't have the list of items included in the box in front of me here at work. I'll check it out when I get home and reply back.

If you connect optical in addition to HDMI, you will have the digital audio going to your recevier, and the digital audio going to your display device.

No one converts SRS circle surround to DD5.1. If your A/V receiver is like mine, it will think SRS CS is 2 channel stereo which you can then run through DPL or DPLII.

Tom in TX

03-21-05, 01:21 PM

If I want to connect a second TV (TV2), I can just run what the review says is a "RF Coax". Pardon my ignorance, but is that like a RG-6, or 59? I hope a 59 will work, as I already have an old run of it from where my 942 will be (someday) to the TV in my bedroom.
Mark, I don't post much, but truly appreciate your hard work. I will jump on the first chance that existing subs will be able to lease. Tell them to hurry up!!
Finally, I go with black components also!
Tom in TX

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 01:30 PM

Tom, I'm using RG-59 coax to distribute the TV2 output from my 942 to the rest of my house. It works just fine.

Ron Barry

03-21-05, 01:37 PM

Mark any thoughts on how the 942 would operate with a 4x3 set? I believe I noticed another mode that the 921 does not have. I am using the 921 on my 4x3 set, curious how the 942 would do in that environment.

I have one silver component in my HT theater and it is the 811. UGH.. should be offered in both Silver and black. I too like the black components!

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 02:24 PM

Ron, I honestly don't have any idea. The 942 does have the standard 4x3#1 and 4x3#2 options available, but I don't have a 4x3 HDTV, so I can't really comment.

Jacob S

03-21-05, 08:04 PM

This receiver only has one HD tuner right? Also dont most HD widescreen tv's have a stretch mode to fill the screen on the sides?

larrystotler

03-21-05, 08:23 PM

Foxbat

03-21-05, 08:35 PM

I feel stoopid... I thought I had this great idea on how Dish could retrofit the DVR-942 with MPEG4 capability, then I actual thought about it.

Since the 942 has USB 2.0 ports (480 Mbps transfer rate,) I figured that a dongle (special hardware plug-in) could be made that would contain the MPEG4 decoder chip. The stream into the dongle wouldn't be too intense, maybe 8-10 Mbps, but as I thought about it, that's when the issue of how to get the decoded content stream back into the 942 cropped up. It couldn't be raw, since that's somewhere around 1.5 Gbps, and we all know that a real-time HD MPEG2 Encoder is still way too expensive, let alone compact enough to include in a USB dongle.

Oh, well, it was an interesting idea while it lasted...

BTW, larrystotler, that's "Silicon"... Unless you're talking about a "mood pastie" or something :D ...

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 09:25 PM

Jacob - my HDTV can't stretch a 1080i signal. Only 480i and 480p. Larry - be careful...most rear projection (especially older ones) televisions can't do 720p. What they can do is 1080i (which actually is about 1000i). My Sony can do 1920x1000i easily.

Mike D-CO5

03-21-05, 10:20 PM

This receiver only has one HD tuner right? Also dont most HD widescreen tv's have a stretch mode to fill the screen on the sides?

My Toshiba 57" hd tv can stretch the picture for the digital tuner but with the dish receiver it won't if you put it in 720p or 1080i. It only works in 480i or 480p. This one thing about the 942 has me wondering if I should buy it now. I can't stand a wide screen tv with black bars on the sides. The 921 does this right anyway. I wish the 942 would do this right , right out of the box.

Mark Lamutt

03-21-05, 10:25 PM

My Toshiba 57" hd tv can stretch the picture for the digital tuner but with the dish receiver it won't if you put it in 720p or 1080i. It only works in 480i or 480p. This one thing about the 942 has me wondering if I should buy it now. I can't stand a wide screen tv with black bars on the sides. The 921 does this right anyway. I wish the 942 would do this right , right out of the box.

Mike - that's what Stretch, Partial Zoom and Zoom formats are for... :)

Mike D-CO5

03-21-05, 10:30 PM

Say Mark didn't you say that you can't do any aspect ratio modes on the hd tv on hd or ota channels? This is what I am talking about . I have 2 ota channels which do no hd but do digital . Right now with the 921 they are automatically stretched to fit my tv. If I have to watch these with the black bars I am not going to be thrilled. I guess I could put them back in 480p and then use my tv remote to change the picture to fit the screen.

larrystotler

03-22-05, 12:36 AM

From: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/118003.html

"For example, a 1280 x 720 fixed-pixel LCD or plasma panel or DLP projector will have an internal scaler that will convert every incoming video signal so that it "fits" its 1280 x 720 native resolution. How well the internal scaler or converter does this may vary from one brand of set to another."

Therefore, a DLP will not natively display a 1920x1080i or 1080p picture. It is scaled to fit the actual display resolution. DVD(480p) is considered EDTV. True high def 1920x1080p or 1080i native is only available on the LCoS or ultra high end plasma TVs due to the fact that DLPs only have a native resolution much lower. As for rear projection, a lot of the older sets were "HD compatible" which meant that they really weren't HD. Also, most say that to get a TRUE HD picture, you need a DVI/HDMI or Firewire connection. You do lose some picture quality using componet YPrPb cables. Granted, most people probably can't tell the difference, but it is there.

As for having a USB v2.0 upgrade for MPEG4, that's not the issue. On the DVRs, the receiver actually records the incoming stream and then decodes it. So, you would have to have an on board processor based solution. I'm failry certain that a PCI video card isn't really capable of MPEG4. An AGP or PCI-X card with an on board decoder could, IF the 942 had that kind of upgrade available, which I don't believe it does. We will hav to wait for someone to buy one and pop the cover to see it it has anything inside that could be used.

Moorebid

03-22-05, 03:19 AM

Mark Lamutt

03-22-05, 07:43 AM

Mark Lamutt

03-22-05, 07:46 AM

As for having a USB v2.0 upgrade for MPEG4, that's not the issue. On the DVRs, the receiver actually records the incoming stream and then decodes it. So, you would have to have an on board processor based solution. I'm failry certain that a PCI video card isn't really capable of MPEG4. An AGP or PCI-X card with an on board decoder could, IF the 942 had that kind of upgrade available, which I don't believe it does. We will hav to wait for someone to buy one and pop the cover to see it it has anything inside that could be used.

There's nothing usable inside the 942 box. There are no slots. Unlike the 921, the 942 main board doesn't look like a computer motherboard.

Moridin

03-22-05, 08:12 AM

From: http://forum.ecoustics.com/bbs/messages/34579/118003.html

Therefore, a DLP will not natively display a 1920x1080i or 1080p picture. It is scaled to fit the actual display resolution.

Except for the Samsung HLR5688W, which is 1080p native. :)

larrystotler

03-22-05, 11:07 AM

Except for the Samsung HLR5688W, which is 1080p native. :)

Yes, but the ALMOST total majority of DLPs today are not.........that was the point......

There's nothing usable inside the 942 box. There are no slots. Unlike the 921, the 942 main board doesn't look like a computer motherboard.

Gee, just take away all our hopes and dreams, why don't ya??????????? :D

My, have we CRT-RPTV'ers been forgotten already?

Nah, just pointing out that the DLP, which seems to be our most popular seller, isn't truly 1080i.

Jerry 42

03-22-05, 11:29 AM

Mark -

Please help me understand.

Your review seems to say that if you set the 942 name based function to record - only new episodes (on a specific channel) of a show the 942 will record every episode of the show that airs with in a year. I take is to mean the 942 will record all new original episodes of the show and all repeats of that episode in the same year as opposed to TiVo like option were you can specify first run only of an episode. Is this correct or did I misunderstand

Thank you

Mark Lamutt

03-22-05, 04:29 PM

Jerry - that is correct. Currently, the Dish definition of "New" is all epsiodes that air in the current year. In a future software update, that definition will change to all epsiodes that air in the current television season.

I'm told they chose to go this route because of inaccuracies in guide data, and that users would rather have err on the side of caution and get all epsiodes recorded, rather than take the chance of losing episodes due to guide data errors.

I disagreed.

BFG

03-22-05, 04:36 PM

Yeah that's a shame. The guide does indicate new episodes pretty acurately, should've gone that route.

Is the guide data a little different? How come they tacked on the tv guide logo in the guide? I hope that's all that will be there and we wont begin to see ads

EvanS

03-22-05, 05:43 PM

...I'm told they chose to go this route because of inaccuracies in guide data, and that users would rather have err on the side of caution and get all epsiodes recorded, rather than take the chance of losing episodes due to guide data errors...

I dunno. I have never had D* so I can't say, but if the definition of a "NEW" episode requires that the word NEW is contained in the guide data then I think E* may have made the right choice, for now at least. There have been quite a few times over the years that the wife & I almost deleted a PVR recording based on the fact that the INFO did not end with the word NEW. We only saved the episode after reading the description and realizing that it did not sound familiar.

I have always wondered if there must be some other, hidden data in the guide that identifies a show as NEW. Maybe D* has different guide data that contains additional new-episode identifers, allowing the Tivo to record a Season pass accurately. Either way I have never felt that the "viewable" E* guide data was clean or consistent enough for this function...although I must admit that I have not noticed these same inaccuracies during this past 2004/2005 television season.

Here's to E* getting it worked out one way or the other. :)

Jacob S

03-22-05, 06:19 PM

I have also wondered about some episodes not containing the word "NEW" at the end of the info data if it could have been left out or something and if the show would still get recorded or if it just recognized all shows that were not already on your hard drive.

BFG

03-22-05, 07:30 PM

Certain syndicated shows on cable networks that air everyyday don't contain the word new. But all of the primetime stuff is new.

Moorebid

03-22-05, 07:39 PM

…just pointing out that the DLP, which seems to be our most popular seller, isn't truly 1080i.Then as Mark said, "be careful...most rear projection (especially older ones) televisions can't do 720p." Despite what the best sellers may currently be, the vast majority of RPTV's still in people's homes are CRT. Your original comment, "…keep in mind that all rear projection TVs are only capacble of 720p, not 1080i. It is a common misconception that they can do 1080i. Only the higher end plasmas and Liquid Crystal on Silicone TVs can truly do 1080i or 1080p. They actually convert the 1080i into something the can actually display." made no mention of the term "DLP."

Ron Barry

03-22-05, 07:41 PM

Isnt there a year stamp on the Info.. I would assume that would also be used to determine newness of program. Based on Mark's response, it sounds like that is what they are using to determine new. Not the keyword new.

larrystotler

03-22-05, 09:09 PM

Then as Mark said, "be careful...most rear projection (especially older ones) televisions can't do 720p." Despite what the best sellers may currently be, the vast majority of RPTV's still in people's homes are CRT. Your original comment, "…keep in mind that all rear projection TVs are only capacble of 720p, not 1080i. It is a common misconception that they can do 1080i. Only the higher end plasmas and Liquid Crystal on Silicone TVs can truly do 1080i or 1080p. They actually convert the 1080i into something the can actually display." made no mention of the term "DLP."

RPTVs are considered to be large console TVs normally with 3 color projectors(or cathode ray tubes) for red, green, and blue. DLP is also a rear projection type of TV, but based on a completely different design. However, when most people speak of CRTs, they are referring to a single tube design, not an RPTV. I think the biggest problem with the industry is that eerything is so confusing due to all the different designs and standards. At least with DVDs, they created 1 standard for EDTV. With HD, you have 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, and different tvs support different formats as noted. They should have just standardize one 1 instead of so many, but this is business.

Foxbat

03-22-05, 09:10 PM

Mark, are you privy to whether or not the 942 will be able to assign a higher priority to the HD version of a program. I'm thinking about some of the programs on Discovery HD that are HD copies of episodes shown earlier in SD on Discovery or TLC. Likewise, maybe I want only the HD copies of "Smallville" on HDnet, not the SD versions on my non-HD WB affiliate.

Okay, I guess you can limit your recordings to just the HD channels, but I think it would be nice if the 942 would have that as a search criterion.

Mark Lamutt

03-22-05, 09:54 PM

Foxbat - that's why I put the "Smallville" example in my review. You have 3 options - either set a normal timer for the specific HD channel, set a Dish Pass rule for the specific HD channel, or set a Dish Pass rule for all channels. If you choose the Dish Pass for all channels, and the program you want to watch is on at the same time on the SD and the HD channels, then the timer will be set for the channel first encountered in the guide. Usually, I've found this means the SD channel. So, what you'd have to do is go into the Daily Schedule, and Skip the timer set for the SD channel. Once the SD channel timer is skipped, the HD channel timer would automatically be unskipped, unless there are other channels in between the SD and HD channels that the program would show up on, in which case you'd have to skip that 2nd timer before the HD timer would become unskipped and active.

If I know there's a program in HD that I want to watch that may move nights, I'll set a Dish Pass rule for that particular HD channel.

Jerry 42

03-22-05, 10:58 PM

RE New Episodes.

I do not know how Dish gets or determines "new" in its listings - The Guide date must come from some service.

TiVo matches the imbedded episode number against episode numbers that aired in the last 2 years. If no match than it is deemed a new episode. If an episode is switched or preempted then TiVo might not record the rescheduled "new" episode. If does not happen often but it has happened. (P.S. I understand that TiVo gets its program data from Tribune service)

Perhaps the Dish method is better. I will see when my 942 gets here.

Thank you again Mark. Your info on the 942 is very helpful.

Moorebid

03-23-05, 05:47 AM

RPTVs are considered to be large console TVs normally with 3 color projectors(or cathode ray tubes) for red, green, and blue. DLP is also a rear projection type of TV, but based on a completely different design. However, when most people speak of CRTs, they are referring to a single tube design, not an RPTV.Not at all, CRT is not exclusive to any one display method. CRT can be direct-view, rear or front-projection. The way a device displays its image does not intrinsically imply the technology behind that display, though it can exclude a certain technology from a certain display method (you don't see DLP direct-view's).

I think the biggest problem with the industry is that eerything is so confusing due to all the different designs and standards. At least with DVDs, they created 1 standard for EDTV. With HD, you have 480p, 720p, 1080i, and 1080p, and different tvs support different formats as noted. They should have just standardize one 1 instead of so many, but this is business.Agreed (except 480p is EDTV; DVD, which is tecnically 480i, would be SDTV, but for film-based content it's a wash). They should've just gone straight to 1080p and called it a day. Ahh, but where's the money to be made in that…

Me wants an HLR6768W…

DonLandis

03-23-05, 07:06 AM

I believe that the 942 has 3 tuners: 2 satellite and 1 OTA. Technically, there is no such thing as an HD tuner. You have NTSC analog and ATSC digital. Then the sat tuners. The receiver is what actually outputs to the TV and sends out the "HD" picture. Also keep in mind that all rear projection TVs are only capacble of 720p, not 1080i. It is a common misconception that they can do 1080i. Only the higher end plasmas and Liquid Crystal on Silicone TVs can truly do 1080i or 1080p. They actually convert the 1080i into something the can actually display.

Minor details-
The tuner is basically an RF device. One tuner can tune all the RF for the OTA. Once a channel is tuned, it is demodulated and processed as either a digital signal or an analog NTSC signal. It's the second part beyond the actual RF tuner that differentiates digital only receivers vs. NTSC only vs. capable of both.

Displays that are analog such as CRT's are designed for interlaced signals not progressive. All digital receivers such as DLP, Plasma, and LCD's are displaying true progressive. The inbound signal must be converted to the native display mode before it will show a picture. This is why an interlaced signal is always preferable to a progressive one on a CRT scan lined phosphor display and a progressive signal is always preferered on a digital pixel based display. Not using the native signal for a display designhas to rely on the quality of the signal conversion process to work and keep conversion artifacting to a minimum. Certain exceptions to this are with analog displays where line quadrupling can negate the negative effects of sending a progressive scan signal to a CRT. Unfortunately that is not possible with an interlaced signal on a digital display since digital display can do no finer image than the native pixel count. :)

frossie

03-23-05, 05:56 PM

Foxbat - that's why I put the "Smallville" example in my review. You have 3 options - either set a normal timer for the specific HD channel, set a Dish Pass rule for the specific HD channel, or set a Dish Pass rule for all channels.

I don't suppose you can set a Dish Pass rule for a range (or comma seperated list) of channels? That would be kind of handy in some circumstances (for example you want to record programs about Hawaii but not the Hawaii Music Sirius channel, or you are interested in programs about rabbits as pets and not food, so you want to restrict yourself to channels below the cooking channels, that kind of thing.

Mark Lamutt

03-23-05, 10:18 PM

No, you can't set a Dish Pass rule for a range of channels. It's one or all.

snidely

03-25-05, 12:36 PM

Well seeing as I have read sooo many people that do not want the 942, maybe they will make it up north here sooner so I can get one for my BEV system ;)

Alt

That's what i am hoping - especially since BEV passed on selling the 921.

...mike (using the BEV 6000 in the southern provences for 3 yearrs.)

sbturner

03-27-05, 08:26 AM

OK I'm clear that most HD channels broadcast in1080i my new DLP is 720p does that mean that shows in 720p will look better for me?

tnsprin

03-27-05, 08:56 AM

OK I'm clear that most HD channels broadcast in1080i my new DLP is 720p does that mean that shows in 720p will look better for me?
If everything else was the same--yes. But things are rarely the same, and many 720P broadcast where not 720P further back, e.g. started on 24p film.

Moridin

03-27-05, 06:33 PM

If everything else was the same--yes. But things are rarely the same, and many 720P broadcast where not 720P further back, e.g. started on 24p film.

24p film? Frames per second and progressive-vs-interlaced have absolutely nothing to do with one another.

sbturner, yes, broadcasts matching the native resolution of the display should always look "better" than broadcasts in which scaling must occur. That being said, I've never seen anything better on my DLP than DiscoveryHD. The quality of the cameras used and the quality of the encoding actually has more of an overall effect on image quality than the broadcast resolution, in my opinion.

lifterguy

03-27-05, 07:54 PM

Mark,
You said in your review:
The AUX mode on the remote can be configured to control a second DISH Network™ receiver via IR and/or UHF
Does that mean the 942 gets a completely new remote (not the standard Dish Pro Platinum DVR remote that comes with the 811 and 522 (among others)? I would love to be able to control my 811 receiver using the aux mode on the remote for my 522.

Mark Lamutt

03-27-05, 09:30 PM

The 942 remotes are different than the 522 remotes. I don't believe that the 522 TV2 remote can control other Dish receivers via the AUX mode setting.

larrystotler

03-28-05, 03:12 PM

OK I'm clear that most HD channels broadcast in1080i my new DLP is 720p does that mean that shows in 720p will look better for me?

A DLP TV is basically like a computer video card and monitor together. The TV will reformat the 1920x1080i signal to the 1280x720p. Most good DLPs use hardware tricks to make the picture look perfectlt fine with no noticable differences. Granted that a progressive source is probably going to look a little better than an interlaced due to the fact that you are basically getting twice the data, ie 60fps vs 30fps, but the 1080i is a higher resolution, so more video data is available. The only way to tell would be to try to find 2 stations running the same program in each format. Just wait to HD DVDs are here and you have to choose which format your TV supports(although I believe they intend to make them all 1080p, but it is all still up in the air...).

Mark, what does the back of your TV2 remote for your 942 say?

Mark Lamutt

03-28-05, 05:00 PM

Larry -
6.2 IR/UHF Pro
FCC ID: DKNFSK03
EchoStar Technologies Corporation
131961
Made in Mexico
Patent Pending

larrystotler

03-28-05, 06:46 PM

6.2? Hmm, the 522/921/811 use the 6.0 remotes. It must be an incremental change and I'd say it's possible that they will move the 625 with the 6.2 as well?

Mark Lamutt

03-28-05, 09:43 PM

Can't say about the 625 because I don't know. I do know that the 6.2's can use the AUX function to control another Dish receiver. But, the 6.2's don't have a SD/HD button.

Mike Johnson

03-30-05, 07:32 AM

I just read Scott Greczkowski's first look at his 942 over on SatelliteGuys.us (http://www.satelliteguys.us/showthread.php?t=60330). Scott states that his HDMI port has a sticker over the HDMI label and calls the port a "HDTV Digital Output". He also speculates that the name was changed because the port does not supply audio. This would be a disappointment. Has anyone with a 942 tried a HDMI to HDMI cable yet? Mark?

I took another look at the 942 product flyer on the DISH site, and I see they call the port a "HDTV digital audio/video output" compatible with HDMI equipped televisions. I'm hoping that the port does supply audio and that this is maybe just an issue about not wanting to pay the fees to use the HDMI trademark.....(ala "Dishwire" instead of Firewire.)

Mark Lamutt

03-30-05, 09:26 AM

Scott Greczkowski

03-30-05, 09:53 AM

I was told by two seperate folks at Dish that the 942 did not output audio via the HDMI ports.

This is the reason why I believe they put the below sticker over the HDMI name and instead changed the name of the port to HDTV Digital Output.

See the photos below to see what I mean.

BFG

03-30-05, 10:18 AM

I don't think that's the case Scott. I think that they don't supply anything that receives the audio out of the HDMI port. all of their cables drop the audio. If you had a true hdmi-hdmi cable I think it would work.

Scott Greczkowski

03-30-05, 10:38 AM

There is no mention of HDMI in the user manual. I wish I had a HDMI TV to test it out with. :)

scottchez

03-30-05, 12:25 PM

Hmmm, I currently have a Direct TV HD Tivo. Over the last year they have had many issues with the HDMI port.

I wonder if by not using Audio on the Dishnetwork Box they have solve the issue.
This is of course assuming both companies are using the same Chip set for the HDMI.

Anyone open one up yet?

I should have a 942 sometime in April, then I can do a full comparision if anyone is interested (before I sell my HD Tivo on Ebay that is).

PS
Im switching back to Dish, just cant find anything on Direct TV- channels are all out of order, and the Guide is so slow with no picture in the corner on the guide- personal preference I guess or Im just weird.

Chris Blount

03-30-05, 12:41 PM

Im switching back to Dish, just cant find anything on Direct TV- channels are all out of order, and the Guide is so slow with no picture in the corner on the guide- personal preference I guess or Im just weird.No, you are not weird. Those are common complaints of Tivo owners.

Mike Johnson

03-30-05, 12:41 PM

I have a 942 on order and my TV has HDMI, so I'll report back when I get my 942. I have also purchased a true HDMI to HDMI cable. I'll let you know if it works.

I still wonder if the port was relabeled because they didn't want to pay the HDMI royalties.

http://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/trademark_logo_pub.asp

Ron Barry

03-30-05, 02:51 PM

Mike - I don't know because I don't have an HDMI equipped display device. My television only has component inputs. I can tell you that I never heard any discussion among the beta people that there were audio problems with the HDMI port. That doesn't mean that there aren't, just that I never heard about it if there are.

I do.. ;) And I also have a 4x3 TV in a major DMA. Now if I only have a 942 to hook it up to I would be able to answer this question. :LOL: Been a long day!!

dmodemd

03-30-05, 03:47 PM

Im not sure I understand the TV2 dual mode thing... If I am in dual mode and watching TV1, and I want to record two things on different channels at the same time (from sat), the review said I could use the TV2 tuner IF it wasn't being used. How does it know if it is being used? Is there a concept of turning the TV2 tuner OFF? Or do you have to switch to single mode to get access to TV2 tuner to record?

I am guessing that at any time I can hijack TV2 tuner in dual mode by setting a timer on it and when the time comes up TV2 will start showing what I am recording on that tuner/TV, right?

From what it appears I can leave the system in dual mode and all I lose really is PinP?

Lee

BFG

03-30-05, 03:51 PM

correct. While both tvs have seperate viewing, they share the same set of timers

StevenZ

03-31-05, 04:59 AM

I still wonder if the port was relabeled because they didn't want to pay the HDMI royalties.
Another possibility is that it's mostly HDMI compliant, but didn't pass some obscure test and so doesn't qualify for the logo. Rather than hold up shipping the box, they might have elected to ship it as is and fix it in the field.

musicmaker2020

04-01-05, 08:38 AM

Another possibility is that it's mostly HDMI compliant, but didn't pass some obscure test and so doesn't qualify for the logo. Rather than hold up shipping the box, they might have elected to ship it as is and fix it in the field.

Fixing it in the field? Are you CRAZY? Dish would NEVER do that! Sounds like a good April Fool's Joke to me ;) .

Looking at Dish historically it wouldnt surprise me. According to Mark's review though most of the bugs are ironed out. HDMI is a very new technology and has only been around for a little over a year. A minor issue with the HDMI port with audio would be nothing compared to the horror stories of the 921. I can live with field testing for that. :)

I have a Hitachi HDTV and it has an HDMI port. I am very curious as to the verdict on this one.

Thanks everyone!

StevenZ

04-01-05, 05:49 PM

I should have been clearer. I didn't have in mind SWAT teams with soldering irons. :) I was imagining a software download that might clear up a tiny compliance issue.

goaliebob99

04-02-05, 01:35 PM

hey i got mine today.. got my 942 hooked up via hdmi and im only getting two channel audio (optical from tv to audio reciver) and my tv outputs dd 5.1... in order to get the dd through everything I had to hook up the optical directly to the 942

cnwade

04-05-05, 10:20 PM

Great review, Mark - Thanks! I'm glad to see the 942 is not as tall as the 921, but is it as NOISY as the 921 (or 721) when in standby mode?

TIA,
Curt
921 Card DNASP103 Rev300
Boot 140B
Flash F052
SW L213HECD-N
<< :mad: MLB Extra Innings paid for but not working on 921 :mad: >>

Mark Lamutt

04-06-05, 06:26 AM

Great review, Mark - Thanks! I'm glad to see the 942 is not as tall as the 921, but is it as NOISY as the 921 (or 721) when in standby mode?

Nope - mine is less than half as loud as my 921.

Jon Spackman

04-06-05, 06:56 PM

does anything output 5.1 dd thru HDMI? do hd tivo's? I was told by DENON that HDMI was capable of 5.1 digital thru the cable, but no one was writing software to do it, just 2 channel audio. Have times changed (that was at the last long beach ces show?

Jon

Mike Johnson

04-07-05, 09:27 PM

I finally took delivery of my 942 last night! So far, Mark's right, this seems to be a solid receiver. The first thing I've noticed is the SD picture quailty is greatly improved over my 811. It is noticeably sharper and the color is richer.

My two biggest disappointments are both on the known bug list: no analog OTA yet, and the aspect ratio problem on the TV2 out.

9. When in Single User Mode, the TV2 output of downconverted 16:9 programming is displayed horizontally squished rather than being displayed in a letterboxed format.

I find that ALL programming is displayed horizontally squished on the TV2 output. 4x3 programming has black sidebars and is squished, too. In single user mode TV2 output appears to be the same as TV1. This makes sense, but because of the squish, it makes the output useless in this mode. This works as expected on the 811, so hopefully it will be resolved. I have yet to try dual mode, so that may be the work around for now.

My roommate ran into a problem this afternoon while I was at work . She took the attached photos. The video had become garbled with green boxes. The OSD Menu video was fine. All video was bad, SD and HD. She put the unit in standby but the problem remained until I did a soft boot. It hasn't come back yet.

I have also noticed a problem with XDS data (part of the Line 21/Closed Captioning) on the TV2 output. I will submit a bug report when I fully test it this weekend. Right now it looks like when the 942 is in single user mode and the TV1 tuner is being displayed (on both TV1 & TV2 out), the TV2 output is passing the XDS data from the TV2 tuner even though the video is from the TV1 tuner. I haven't had a chance to test captioning, nor have I determined if the XDS data is "live" or not. Again, I will test this weekend. (XDS data is "Auxillary Data Service" and is carried on Line 21 with Captioning. It contains program information, ratings, time. It is the data that makes the "V-chip" work.)

I've only had it a few hours, but so far I am very pleased with this unit. I purchased my 942 as a replacement for my JVC HM-DSR100 D-VHS unit I purchased in 1998 for the same $699. I have refused to purchase any Dish receiver that doesn't have an OTA tuner in it. My 811 replaced my 5000. I guess I'm stubborn because I'm in the OTA broadcasting business! This is my first Dish DVR.

Mark Lamutt

04-08-05, 08:52 AM

Damnit...the green line problem was supposed to have been fixed. I thought that it had been because I haven't seen it show up since the beginning of February. Oh well...I'll add it to the current bug list. As for the XDS data not being correct on TV2, that one would be a new one to me that I'll check tonight myself.

scottchez

04-08-05, 08:58 AM

I ran into the Green line problem also which required a reboot.

In my tests I have found it ONLY happens with a Bad OTA signal with Major Muti Path Problems.

I went up to the Atic and tweaked my Atn and have not had the problem since.

Im working on a HD Direct Tivo and 942 comparision now. . . . .

Mike Johnson

04-08-05, 09:46 AM

The green lines happened on a sat channel as I didn't have OTA programmed yet. I'm running L223.

I'll do some full testing on the XDS. It could be the data didn't get cleared when changing to a channel that doesn't have XDS or something like that. This will require a lot of checking, but I'll do that tonight or this weekend. Mark, do you want me to post what I find as a bug report?

Mark Lamutt

04-08-05, 09:54 AM

Please do, Mike! :)

normang

04-08-05, 02:26 PM

aspect ratio question.. if I can formulate it correctly...

If I have a 4:3 HDTV, using component in, with my 811, I only get a 16:9 screen, if I switch to SD content, it does not fill the screen, its 4:3 in the 16:9 window. To get full screen, I switch to an s-video input.

On a 942, if I change the settings with only component output, I assume that on my TV, I'll only ever get 16:9 display.. Its a 5 year old Mitsubishi (2000 Model) I'll never really be able to get a full screen out of a 942 because of my TV, or is it possible that the component out on the 811 does not provide the needed ratio to allow SD to fill the screen?

I don't know if there is a good way to determine this unless I had a 942 or whether someone else familiar with a older 4:3 Mitsubishi knows whether this is TV related issue or a reciever output issue.

any thoughts??
thanks for any feedback

BFG

04-08-05, 03:34 PM

normang

04-08-05, 06:05 PM

you need to just use the 4:3 setting on the 942/811 and it should work fine. you've probably been leaving your 811 set to 16X9. if you had it set to 4X3 it would letter box digitals and HD and full screen the dish sd channels

I would have to double-check to be sure, but I am pretty sure that I have the 811 set to 4:3-1 if thats the setting your thinking of. I get the feeling that the component in on this model of Mitsubishi may only go 16:9. I'll have to find someway to test this, unless someone else with a 4:3 Mitsu using DTV component in knows for sure..

thanks

dish.guy

04-08-05, 07:46 PM

I have a nice HDTV (panasonic TC-32LX20 ), that I use with the 522, I like everything about he 522 except the often very pixilated picture. I also have an up-converting ( 1080i ) dvd player and those look awesome so I know the TV is capable of a great picture.

My question to all who want to respond is: Do you think the 942 will have a better picture for SD programing? I see it's up-scaling too, I live in the SF bay area hills, so I'm not sure if I can get much OTA.
I think I'll still be watching mostly SD TV and would run to get a 942 if it could improve the picture.

Also, my housemate wants to lease one as a new customer, which I think is a great idea, but if it's real buggy or we can't get much OTA HD and decide it's not worth it, can we get the $250 upgrade fee back?

Thanks

Mark Lamutt

04-09-05, 12:42 AM

Not a chance on getting the fee back.

gevange

04-09-05, 06:27 AM

DishGuy, I can tell you that I see a huge improvment in the SD. I think it's because I'm connecting with component cables instead of s-video. Also the half zoom is nice. Hope that helps. George

normang

04-09-05, 08:52 AM

Mark, on the aspect ratios on the 942, currently there is little or no control? but its expected to be similiar to the 811? what happens when you switch from 1080 to 720 or 480 when watching a program, from HD to SD, is it merely a quality change or is it change the aspect ratio too? Can you go into the menu and change it on the fly?

Mark Lamutt

04-09-05, 11:40 AM

normang

04-09-05, 09:57 PM

Not sure what you mean, Norm. Aspect Ratio (16x9, 4x3#1, 4x3#2) is independent of TV1 Output Resolution (1080i, 720p, 480p, 480i), which is independent of Format (Normal, Stretch, Partial Zoom, Zoom, Gray Bars, Letterbox). Of course you can change it on the fly (if I understand correctly what you're asking).

Mark, I must not have been awake when I posed that question, of course resolution has nothing to do with aspect ratio. And the TV has to support the resolution you set, as I believe not all TV's support all those output resolutions..

What I am trying to do is determine whether I could get full screen SD from TV1 on my TV, and I don't think I can. When my Mitsubishi uses the HDTV inputs, it goes into 16:9 and I think thats it no matter what the receiver might send, so SD 4:3 fits into a 16:9 window as its a 4:3 HDTV..

So this leads me to another thought, does TV2's composite and Agile stereo output work at the same time? In other words, could I use TV2'S outputs for SD on my HD set on another input for full screen and still send the other output to other sets around the house? Does TV2 only output in Dual mode and is off in single mode??

thanks for your feedback

Mike Johnson

04-09-05, 11:32 PM

does TV2's composite and Agile stereo output work at the same time?

Yes, they do. In fact, what you suggest is how I have my 942 hooked up right now. I'm using single user mode. I feed RF to my garage and workshop and composite to my main TV.

Be aware of the aspect ratio bug when using TV2 in single mode. (The picture is tall and skinny.) When this is fixed, this setup will work perfectly for me.

Mark Lamutt

04-10-05, 12:25 AM

That's also the way I have my 942 setup as well. I feed the TV2 RF output to my utility room, where it is combined with the cable signal feeding the other 4 SD televisions in my house. And, I have the composite output connected to one of my HD television inputs.

Moorebid

04-10-05, 04:43 AM

Norm, you could also go into the menu and change the output resolution to something non-HD. If I understand the functioning of your set properly, when it receives an HD signal (1080i), it automatically "squeezes" that image to fit within a 16:9 frame, but when it receives an SD signal (480i, possibly 480p?), it defaults to full-frame. This is the same as my Sony 53HSx0. One way or another, you're going to be required to switch something - whether its an input on the television, or a setting on the box, but at least this way you would simplify cabling, and avoid the TV2 aspect ratio bug.

This is yet another argument (more the same argument) for a conditional native output option. If he could set the box to output 1080i for HD sources, and 480i/p for SD sources, this wouldn't be a problem. Even something as simple as the HDTivo's "up-arrow" toggle button… anything to keep us from having to work the menu every time we switch between HD and SD.

*kisses his DCT-6412*

normang

04-10-05, 01:15 PM

Thanks for all the feedback, appreciate it.

I'll check into whether there is some setting that my TV will accept when using the HD inputs to go to full frame, but I suspect it will be easier to merely use an another input on my set from the composite out for SD, which should look OK as far as I know for SD programming.

If the aspect bug is only in single mode, are you all using Dual Mode? I would think that Dual Mode would be best with the rare exception of perhaps competition from another area when your watching SD on the main set no matter what mode your in. The aspect ratio issue is not present in Dual mode correct?

Moorebid... I am not quite sure where your suggestion refers. My Mitsubishi VS-60805 is limited to two component inputs, one HD and one for Progressive DVD. When using the HD inputs, it only appears to display a 16:9 window on my 4:3 screen. I'll have to do some more checking, perhaps I a missing something..

While I know this is asking for who wins the lotto, has there been any feedback from Dish as to when they'll address the handful or more annoying issues in the 942, such as the aspect ratio problem. Seems L223 came out seemingly rather quick..

I am still probably a few weeks from buying, I have to get setup to properly support a two tuner receiver, so I have to upgrade from Legacy to DishPro to be able to use my existing cabling. So perhaps by then, new code will resolve some of the known issues at the moment.

Mark Lamutt

04-10-05, 08:49 PM

I use SUM almost exclusively with mine.

Bugs are being actively (and after some of my 921 experiences, actively takes on a whole new meaning with the 942) being worked on.

SimpleSimon

04-10-05, 10:40 PM

... Bugs are being actively (and after some of my 921 experiences, actively takes on a whole new meaning with the 942) being worked on.
Ah. Now you understand what we've been talking about. :cool:

larrystotler

04-11-05, 10:07 AM

Ah. Now you understand what we've been talking about. :cool:

Poor Simon. We need to take up a collection to get you a 942 and Bob Haller some DirecTV HD TiVos................ :D :hurah: :lol: :) :D ;) :sure:

cocokola

04-12-05, 06:14 PM

It's difficult to do a direct comparison between the 921 and 942 OTA signal strengths because their scales measure different things, and are on a different scale. The 942 scale is 0 to 100, and requires a signal strength of about 61 out of 100 (in my case anyway) to get a signal lock. The 921 requires a SS of about 65-70 out of 125 to get a signal lock.

Now, comparing the weakest station in Denver between the 921 and the 942, on the 942 I receive this station with an 80 out of 100 signal strength. On the 921, I receive this station with an 80 out of 125. But, even though that looks like the 942 is doing a better job, you can't make that assumption because it's not comparing apples to apples.

I know that the OTA receiver in the 942 is a later generation once than is used in the 921, and I think that it does a better job in most areas. I'm not yet convinced it does a better job in multipath rejection than the 921, but in other areas, I think that it is a more robust receiver.

I currently have a 6000, and I have multi-path issues. Do you have any idea how the OTA tuner compares between the 6000 and the 942? I've not been able to find out what OTA tuner is being used in this device, specifially if it's a 3rd generation or later that may have the ability to shift echos into the same time period as the main signal.

thanks a bunch.

Mark Lamutt

04-12-05, 09:54 PM

I have my old 6000 connected next to my 942, and the 942 pulls in my very weak OTA signals much better than the 6000 does. As for what generation the tuner is, I have no idea what determines that.

sbturner

04-13-05, 10:03 AM

Hey Mark, according to the Charlie Chat existing customers won't be able to lease this. You had orginally gotten info that maybe we would in May. Do you have any other info, or has the Voom demise doomed us? If we can't lease it by this summer I guess it's another year of not having college football in HD. That sucks as I just made the investment and bought a new Samsung HLP4663W DLP, hey it has the HDMI and DVI connectors and a sweet picture, I just wish that I could pipe some HD into it. This is a major upgrade for me as I was still watching my 26" console RCA that I have had for 14 years. See if you can get some new info. By the way I have already e-mailed Dish and voiced my displeasure and they suggested that I purchase a (get this) a 921. So you want me to purchase a 921 for $549 that I can't even use next year. Wow unbelieveable.

Mark Lamutt

04-13-05, 10:44 AM

The May date didn't come from me - it came from Scott, or one of his staff over at Satguys. The only word that I've heard about existing customer lease options is that "we're working on putting a program together for existing customers"...I've never known a timeframe for it, although it would make sense to me that they'd want to get in place sooner rather than later.

cocokola

04-13-05, 08:41 PM

I have my old 6000 connected next to my 942, and the 942 pulls in my very weak OTA signals much better than the 6000 does. As for what generation the tuner is, I have no idea what determines that.

Thanks Mark.

I'm just curious what chipset is used for the OTA tuner; perhaps so I could research if it has enhancements for multi-path issues. I recall a discussion either here or *vs that mentioned the chipset that the 921 used (it wasn't this better OTA tuner..)

anyway, thanks for the info.

cschang

04-18-05, 11:52 AM

Hi everyone...new to the forum.

I am a former happy DirecTiVo user for over two years.....and TiVo for a few years before that. I recently got an HDTV and switched to my local cable company with Moxi because of costs.

Not being totally thrilled with Moxi, and cable in general, I thought I would look at Dish's offerings.

When looking up how the 942 handles aspect ratios between HD and SD channels, I don't get a clear understanding.

With the system set for 16x9, do SD channels default to greybar?

thanks,
-curtis