How can I find out if I'm in a "White" Area?

[Nick]

I want CBS-HD.

I already subscribe to Dish HD pak and I just recently got Distant Nets.

According to Dish, QUALIFICATION METHOD #2 says I "...must live in an area that does not receive the broadcasts of local stations in any market area (a so called "White Area")."

WTEV....47....CBS....JACKSONVILLE FL....190°....63.7 MILES
WTOC....11....CBS....SAVANNAH GA.........13°.....59.8 MILES

According to www.antennaweb.org, I am 63.7 miles away from my DMA's CBS affiliate in JAX, and 59.8 miles from CBS in SAV, but regardless of the distance, I cannot receive the CBS feed from either channel under any reasonable circumstances, short of mounting a deep-fringe antenna on a 60' tower which isn't likely since I live in an apartment surrounded by 60' - 80' pine trees and I already have a gaggle of sat dishes on my approx 10' x 12' 'exclusive-use' postage-stamp size patio.

How do I find out of I am in a "white area, and where are these so-called white areas anyway? Somebody knows, but I don't think they are telling.

All I want is CBS-HD. Is that too much to ask? :shrug:

UPDATE: Because I am still receiving my locals on Dish from ATL, I am told I need a 'white' area for the ATL area. Are there any 'white' areas in north GA I can "move" to, other than White County? :sure:

[Pete K.]

Short of physically moving to Forsyth County um,er...no wait...you mean "white" as in underserved by broadcasters. Looking at the DMA's of North Georgia leaves little room for a white area. There are Atlanta, Greenville and Chattanooga DMA's. Have you tried punching in a few zip codes into the address broker from around the Rome, Ga. area? That's pretty far from both Atlanta and Chattanooga. I'm in a grade B, on the fringe of both the Atlanta and Greenville DMA's and I can't find a white area anywhere close to me.

[Nick]

Thanks, Pete. Good to hear from you.

I had a long conversation with a CSR this morning. He gave me a rather odd and unexpected tip that just might work (ass/u/ming he knows what he and his supv are talking about.)

I'll let you know if it works.

[oljim]

With a ant like the CM 4228 you should get all the Jax stations. I get them on and off from 42 miles north of Sav. with ant on 36 ft tower.
To get CBS HD from dish you must be in the dma of CBS station that is o&o you are not.

[the_bear]

Is it still possible for affiliates to grant waivers? If the Voom channels pan out, there will be some more incentive to put up another dish.

[derwin0]

Buckhead (city in Madison County, not party area of Atlanta), zip code 30625 is a white area for OTA in the Atlanta DMA.

[derwin0]

Is it still possible for affiliates to grant waivers?Yes, both Fox and CBS granted me waivers recently (Fox in December, CBS in March)

[wcswett]

I want CBS-HD.
I already subscribe to Dish HD pak and I just recently got Distant Nets.
According to Dish, QUALIFICATION METHOD #2 says I "...must live in an area that does not receive the broadcasts of local stations in any market area (a so called "White Area")."

At the moment neither DISH nor DirecTV can qualify you for new distant HD because legislation in December '04 separated analog distant and digital distant qualification and also eliminated analog distant qualification for everyone who can get their own DMA locals via satellite, ie. just because you used to qualify for analog distants doesn't mean you now qualify for digital distants, but you can keep any channels you already get in most cases. Congress has given the FCC until Dec. 31, 2005 to publish new qualification requirements (reception model) for digitals so new "digital white areas" can be established. Until that guidance is published, DISH and DirecTV have no method of qualifying customers for distant digital channels.

How do I find out of I am in a "white area, and where are these so-called white areas anyway? Somebody knows, but I don't think they are telling.

You have to wait. Nobody knows right now what the new digital white areas will be.

All I want is CBS-HD. Is that too much to ask?

You might want to write your Congressman because this was written into law.

Because I am still receiving my locals on Dish from ATL, I am told I need a 'white' area for the ATL area. Are there any 'white' areas in north GA I can "move" to, other than White County?

I live in Towns County, which is in an analog white area for all networks and is expected to be in a digital white area for all networks. It's also a nice place to live. :)

--- WCS

[waltinvt]

At the moment neither DISH nor DirecTV can qualify you for new distant HD because legislation in December '04 separated analog distant and digital distant qualification and also eliminated analog distant qualification for everyone who can get their own DMA locals via satellite, ie. just because you used to qualify for analog distants doesn't mean you now qualify for digital distants, but you can keep any channels you already get in most cases. Congress has given the FCC until Dec. 31, 2005 to publish new qualification requirements (reception model) for digitals so new "digital white areas" can be established. Until that guidance is published, DISH and DirecTV have no method of qualifying customers for distant digital channels.

You have to wait. Nobody knows right now what the new digital white areas will be.

You might want to write your Congressman because this was written into law.


--- WCS

Some affiliates are granting waivers and waivers remain a perfectly acceptable means of qualifing for digital DNS (which is what the HD national networks are). The '99 SHIVERA is still in affect - that's what the '04 SHVERA extended. What you no longer have are the same options of appealing a denied waiver like before because the FCC has said if DBS has LiLs available in your area, then you're not entitled to a signal test. Basically if you're denied a waiver, there's not a lot you can do until the FCC comes up with a digital specific predicition model.

There are (a fair amount actually) posts by sat customers that have obtained waivers. Some I guess are temporary "HD Only" waivers or "letters of no objection" and I guess "D" is accepting them for the HD Nets.

[wcswett]

There are (a fair amount actually) posts by sat customers that have obtained waivers. Some I guess are temporary "HD Only" waivers or "letters of no objection" and I guess "D" is accepting them for the HD Nets.

That surprises me. I knew that old waivers didn't apply to digitals now but I didn't think there were many people getting new waivers.

Personally, I already have WCBS-DT via DISH (both from the old white area qualification and the O&O deal) and have made other provisions for obtaining other HD networks until such time as DISH has them all up and the FCC confirms that I'm in a digital white area. I'd assume that DISH could have all the NYC digitals up on Rainbow 1 fairly quickly if they want to and can get the feeds to the uplink. I'm in an ABC O&O and believe I could qualify for that NYC digital, too.

--- WCS

[waltinvt]

That surprises me. I knew that old waivers didn't apply to digitals now but I didn't think there were many people getting new waivers.

Personally, I already have WCBS-DT via DISH (both from the old white area qualification and the O&O deal) and have made other provisions for obtaining other HD networks until such time as DISH has them all up and the FCC confirms that I'm in a digital white area. I'd assume that DISH could have all the NYC digitals up on Rainbow 1 fairly quickly if they want to and can get the feeds to the uplink. I'm in an ABC O&O and believe I could qualify for that NYC digital, too.

--- WCS

There were quite a few posts on AVS not long ago (Walnut Creek thread, I think) about getting waivers for digital DNS.

I even talked to one of the FCC lawyers not too long ago and she confirmed that waivers can be used to get distant digital networks.

For a while "D" was misreading the law and telling anyone that wasn't in an O&O area that they could not get the HD DNS because of the new legislation. The the FCC issued a statement that in effect said that DBS providers should not be blaming the FCC for their (DBS) business practices.

The FCC did come out with a "rules" statment that exempted DBS from having to procure a signal tests if requested in an area where they offered LiLs.

The bottom line is: For all intents and purposes and except for a few "grandfather" situations, analog DNS is gone. Digital DNS however is here and more in play every day. The problem is it's caught in the transition right now and there isn't a complete set if rules and guidlines yet.

[Nick]

I'm confused. :confused: When you say "D", are you talking Dish Network or DirecTV?

Established board convention says:

E* = EchoStar (Dish)
D* = DirecTV

If everyone would stick to these designations, maybe we could all understand each other.

Thanks

:whatdidid: