Round One of My Battle with My Landlord

[Rollo Smokes]

This is my second post here in this forum. I only hope that this isn't my last.

My first post, from December (http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=35881), was about a situation I had with my apartment landlord regarding my dish installations. I was living in my current place for two months already when my landlord requested I remove my satellites (one for DirecTV, the other for Bell ExpressVu). Because I have no balcony, both dishes were on the fire escape, where it couldn't stay because of fire codes. I removed the Canadian bird altogether, and had my DirecTV dish moved to an area between the windows adjacent to my bedroom. It was not attached and bolted to the outside walls of the building.

After the inital drama, no one bothered me for nearly six months -- until this past Monday (May 9). My fiance found a letter under the door from the management, requesting that I remove my DirecTV dish within the next seven days. The letter stated that having a dish was "prohibited by the owner of the building, and more importantly by the City of New York." I can tell you that there is absolutely NO municipal law here in New York City, nor any state law, that prohibits apartment dwellers from having satellite dishes. I went to several city agencies and they all knew nothing of such law, but the couldn't help me with my situation either.

Today (Thursday) I consulted with a lawyer, and he agreed that I may have a case. However, he suggested that I speak with an attorney who specializes in communications law. He also hinted that it would be a lengthy and costly legal battle, one which would be likely played out in a federal court. With no local remedy available (other than going to housing court if the landlord tried to evict me), I then considered filing a petition with the FCC.

Over the past few days, I re-read my information about the OTARD rules, and Section 207 of the '96 Telecommunications Act, and exactly what is governed under its scope. I thought I had a real chance to fight my landlord on this. Then I called the FCC directly, and the woman on the other end of the phone burst my balloon: the current dish placement isn't protected under OTARD. The landlord wins this round. Despite no prohibitions on dishes within the lease agreement.

I never thought I would lose. I still want to file a petition with the FCC, but this time with the intent of possibly having the laws amended or defined more clearly (if that's possible). In a few days, it'll be good-bye DirecTV, and hello Time Warner.

That is unless there's some way I can still get a signal from an indoor installation...

[zmark]

What reason did the FCC lady give you? From what I've read here, if it's not bolted down, your safe.

[TNGTony]

The reason is that the outside walls of the appartment building DO NOT BELONG TO THE RENTER. There is not exclusive use. The outside walls of an apartment are NOT fair game for apartment dwellers to install their dishes. I cannot speak for any local ordinance, but imediately after reading where the dish was installed and before I got to the part where the FCC lady said it wasn't protected, I knew it wasn't portected!

The FCC ruling allows an apartment dweller to use his EXCLUSIVE USE AREA (a portion of the property where (s)he has exclusive use) to install a dish as long as no damage is done to the rented property.

The outside wall nor the fire escape are exclusive use areas. Sorry!

Tony

[Bob Haller]

If enough people MOVED, or failed to WANT to live there ZAP problem gone....

I suggest you investiage a MDU. Both providers will wire the entire building for free to the owner, with a single master dish on the roof.

what is now a problem becomes a renting feature.

hey you can chose cable or satellite tv:)

[SimpleSimon]

... I suggest you investiage a MDU. Both providers will wire the entire building for free to the owner, with a single master dish on the roof. ...You think so, huh? Fat chance without exclusive contracts.

[Rollo Smokes]

While at work yesterday, I re-read most of the "Second Order and Report" that was added to the '96 Telecomm. Act, which extended satellite dish access in certain instances. I can blame the landlord for his obvious lack of knowledege on the law, and for using his own selfish reasons to justify why I couldn't have a dish. I can blame my superintendent for answering "yes" when I asked him about satellites in the building before I moved in, when he should have known the real deal all along. But I'm blaming the FCC for my defeat.

The Section 207 rules do not cover installations on the outside face of the building (outside the renter's leasehold), or on the roof (considered as restricted property controlled by the owner). I considered approaching my landlord with a solution: to allow my dish on the roof, using a solid, non-piercing base weighed down by sandbags or some kind of brick to secure it. That wouldn't work because such a setup would be considered as taking possession of restricted-access property, and allowing others, such as an installer, the same abilities. Not to mention the potential for other tenants requesting satellite service and wanting to place their own dishes on the roof.

I could consider getting the installer to make a deal with management where one or two master dishes -- DirecTV and/or Dish -- would go up on the roof and either service would be then available to all tenants. Somehow, my gut tells me management will never allow that. I think they're in bed with the local cable provider. But, again, I blame the FCC for not including the provision to allow renters to place dishes on rooftops in the revised guidelines.

I thought the FCC was in favor of consumers having the ablility to choose what they want to watch, and how they watch it. It is not fair that certain condo and co-op dwellers can have access to DBS systems, but most apartment residents can't -- there are many apartment residents throughout New York City who have dishes installed illegaly, according to the rules, but either the landlords don't care or don't know the rules.

Something else to chew on: if my building can allow cellular and wireless towers on the roof, what's the problem with a harmless 20-inch (in diameter) satellite dish, that's not piercing the base of the roof and not bothering anyone?

So, I'm left with attempting to pick up a signal via indoor installation (if that is possible??), or breaking down my dish, storing it for the next move, and getting (gasp) cable television. I may still write the FCC and express my feelings on this issue. Any thoughts or suggestions??

[FTA Michael]

I thought the FCC was in favor of consumers having the ablility to choose what they want to watch, and how they watch it. :rotfl: Yeah, that explains the broadcast flag the FCC tried to push through.

IMHO, we (and by "we" I mean you apartment dwellers) are fortunate that the FCC gave us any kind of blanket authorization. Without it, we'd probably be looking at state-by-state revisions to landlord-tenant rules. Or even more likely, landlords would simply be free to include anti-dish clauses in their lease agreements.

if my building can allow cellular and wireless towers on the roof, what's the problem with a harmless 20-inch (in diameter) satellite dish, that's not piercing the base of the roof and not bothering anyone?Two easy explanations: 1) The landlord gets a percentage from his building's cable subscribers. Or 2) The landlord doesn't like the look of dishes and simply doesn't want to be bothered. Also remember that the building owner gets rent from the cellular companies for that tower placement.

So, I'm left with attempting to pick up a signal via indoor installation (if that is possible??)Depending on the type and angle of the window glass, it might be possible to use your dish indoors.

Finally, I'd suggest that you mention that you were told that dishes would be okay and ask to be let out of your lease. Then you'd be free to find a dish-friendly place. Good luck!

[TNGTony]

Cellular companies pay handsomely for cellular tower sites.

See ya
Tony

[Bob Haller]

Rollo. you can still smoke in your apartment. Lots of landlords are prohibiting that these days/

Odors, complaints, excess clean up and painting, fire risk etc etc

[Richard King]

I don't allow smokers in the apartment that I rent out that is attached to my house.

[Bob Haller]

I rented a house for many years, no smokerers or pets.

Led to a happy tenant, who picked my house for that reason/

[Stewart Vernon]

I feel for the guy here... and others in the same situation... but I think there's some very simple logic at work here.

When you rent an apartment... it isn't yours. You are renting it from the owner. The owner/landlord in this case retains rights to some parts of the property he owns, because he owns it and you are essentially "borrowing" when you rent property.

Like I said, I feel sorry for the guy... but I think most people (if the shoe were on the other foot) and they were renting proeprty they owned to someone else... would have rules of their own about things they would and wouldn't allow the tenant to do.

As someone else suggested... it pays to investigate things like this in leases when you sign to see what the landlord will and will not permit... then if you have the option to negotiate, do it... otherwise see if there are other places in your area and move if you can to one that has rules compatible with your lifestyle.

Like someone else mentioned... some places don't allow smoking or pets... I've heard of some who cater to older or single people and don't want to rent to families with children. Obviously if you have or want something against a particular landlord's rules... then you need to look elsewhere.

[Rollo Smokes]

:rotfl: Depending on the type and angle of the window glass, it might be possible to use your dish indoors.

Finally, I'd suggest that you mention that you were told that dishes would be okay and ask to be let out of your lease. Then you'd be free to find a dish-friendly place. Good luck!

I have double-glass windows in my apartment (at least that's what I think they're called). I'm not sure whether the window itself is glass or acrylic.

As for getting out of the lease, management sent us renewal forms two weeks ago (our lease expires on August 31). If I were single, I'd have no problem telling them to shove it. But I have to think for two people, and I don't think my future wife wants to move...but that's getting too personal. But finances will dictate if moving is an option.