overall picture quality 942 versus 921

[cebbigh]

I've only had a few hours to view my new 942 since setting it up. I believe I'm seeing artifacts on the line edges that weren't there before. I had my 921 connected directly to my Panasonic with the a Monster DVI cable. Now I have the supplied adaptor connected to the same Monster DVI cable. I'm wondering if the supplied adaptor is to blame. Has anyone else noticed this? I have the sharpness control down as far as it will go (same as I had it on the 921).

[Bichon]

Are you running the same screen format (e.g. 16x9) and the same screen resolution (e.g. 1080i) as you were on the 921?

If you are using the 4x3 #2 with stretch trick, I suspect that would cause it.

[cebbigh]

Yes to screen format (16x9) and resolution 1080i. To try to get better picture, I purchased expensive cable that combined DVI and HDMI into a single cable to get the best results. Picture was still inferior to straight DVI on the 921. Called Dish CEO where I got the lease deal to see if I could gracefully return the 942. Was told yes, but the 250.00 up front charge on the lease deal would be forfeited. Said I appreciated that I was given the offer to begin with and would keep options open. Because when I first got the 921 I was splitting hairs whether the image using component versus dvi was better I thought I would try an a/b component versus hdmi/dvi comparison with the 942. Using the component cable that came in the 942 box I found the image far superior to the image using a $130.00 cable that combined dvi/hdmi on one cable. Subjectively, I think the picture quality was on a par with the 921 using the expensive DVI cable. I plan to return the hdmi/dvi cable tomorrow and exchange it for the same brand expensive quality component cable. I'll post the results tomorrow.

[the_bear]

I think I know what is going on here. This shows how image quality can be very much a personal preference. I have a fixed pixel display and prefer the 942 scaler. Dish does not broadcast enough information to fill a 1080i frame over DVI. The receiver must guess at what the missing information is. If the missing dot is between a black and white dot, the old receivers will guess the dot should be black (nearest neighbor). The 942 will guess the dot should be gray (neighboring average). For channels like Discovery, you will probably see some improvement with component, because 1280x1080i can be fed out directly over component instead of having to guess at the missing dots.

[Rob Glasser]

I've only had a few hours to view my new 942 since setting it up. I believe I'm seeing artifacts on the line edges that weren't there before. I had my 921 connected directly to my Panasonic with the a Monster DVI cable. Now I have the supplied adaptor connected to the same Monster DVI cable. I'm wondering if the supplied adaptor is to blame. Has anyone else noticed this? I have the sharpness control down as far as it will go (same as I had it on the 921).

Hi Chuck, sorry to hear that the picture quality isn't looking as good as the 921 for you. Personally I didn't really notice any difference in picture quality between the 921 (DVI -> HDMI Cable from Pacific Cable) and the 942 (Supplied HDMI->DVI Adapter + Same DVI -> HDMI Cable from Pacific Cable). In both cases I am viewing in 16x9 mode at 720p (I found that 720p made for a crisper looking HD picture, 1080i is softer and actually looks better for SD content). I am viewing it on a 43" Pioneer Plasma (4312).

[jsanders]

I've only had a few hours to view my new 942 since setting it up. I believe I'm seeing artifacts on the line edges that weren't there before. I had my 921 connected directly to my Panasonic with the a Monster DVI cable. Now I have the supplied adaptor connected to the same Monster DVI cable. I'm wondering if the supplied adaptor is to blame. Has anyone else noticed this? I have the sharpness control down as far as it will go (same as I had it on the 921).

There isn't enough description to be able to tell you anything about your problem. Different DVI cables won't make a difference, it is a digital signal not analog.

Do you have your velocity modulation scan turned on or off on your television?

Could you take a picture of this problem and post it for us?

[cebbigh]

I think I know what is going on here. This shows how image quality can be very much a personal preference. I have a fixed pixel display and prefer the 942 scaler. Dish does not broadcast enough information to fill a 1080i frame over DVI. The receiver must guess at what the missing information is. If the missing dot is between a black and white dot, the old receivers will guess the dot should be black (nearest neighbor). The 942 will guess the dot should be gray (neighboring average). For channels like Discovery, you will probably see some improvement with component, because 1280x1080i can be fed out directly over component instead of having to guess at the missing dots.

Thanks. I was thinking that perhaps the hdmi pins on the back of my 942 might be out of line. But this explanation could certainly explain what I'm seeing. It is most noticable on the channels like discovery hd I think because I'm looking for absolute perfection. I also notice deeper color saturation with the component on the same settings. I'm content to stick with the component now that I see the difference.

[cebbigh]

Hi Chuck, sorry to hear that the picture quality isn't looking as good as the 921 for you. Personally I didn't really notice any difference in picture quality between the 921 (DVI -> HDMI Cable from Pacific Cable) and the 942 (Supplied HDMI->DVI Adapter + Same DVI -> HDMI Cable from Pacific Cable). In both cases I am viewing in 16x9 mode at 720p (I found that 720p made for a crisper looking HD picture, 1080i is softer and actually looks better for SD content). I am viewing it on a 43" Pioneer Plasma (4312).

Component works fine for me. I never could really see any real difference between component and dvi on the 921. I just used the dvi because it was there and because it was suppossed to be better. The monitor I'm using is a 53" rear projection (Costco). It doesn't have 720p but the price was right and I am easily amazed.

[cebbigh]

There isn't enough description to be able to tell you anything about your problem. Different DVI cables won't make a difference, it is a digital signal not analog.

Do you have your velocity modulation scan turned on or off on your television?

Could you take a picture of this problem and post it for us?

Is that true of component cables as well?

Velocity scan modulation ... velocity scan modulation ... ... sorry to say, I don't know. I'll have to pull out the manual and try to find out. Is that something all hd sets have as an on/off option?

I'm not sure it would show anything on a picture that would be noticable. I'll take one and see. It might take awhile though.

[jsanders]

Component cables are different, it is an analog signal. Any signal degredation cannot be cleaned up, however it can with digital signals. Rule of thumb is just keep the cables as short as you can. I don't know if you will see a difference between cheaper or more expensive cables, but, in theory, the more expensive component cables are better.

DVI is not necessarily better than component, normally it should be though. It all depends on who has the best D/A converter, and how close that is to the circuitry that draws the raster scan. In a DVI connection, the TV does the D/A conversion and it has a very short path to the raster scan circuitry. It should be the best. However, if it has a **really** crummy D/A converter, then you might be better off with component, and let the 942 do the digital to analog conversion.

[cebbigh]

Component cables are different, it is an analog signal. Any signal degredation cannot be cleaned up, however it can with digital signals. Rule of thumb is just keep the cables as short as you can. I don't know if you will see a difference between cheaper or more expensive cables, but, in theory, the more expensive component cables are better.

DVI is not necessarily better than component, normally it should be though. It all depends on who has the best D/A converter, and how close that is to the circuitry that draws the raster scan. In a DVI connection, the TV does the D/A conversion and it has a very short path to the raster scan circuitry. It should be the best. However, if it has a **really** crummy D/A converter, then you might be better off with component, and let the 942 do the digital to analog conversion.

Thanks. With component would you expect to see any difference on lengths of 2 meters or less of otherwise identical high quality cable (If so I might be able to reduce a 2 meter length to 1.5 meter)? I wonder why I saw a difference between DVI coming off the 921 and HDMI/DVI coming off the 942 into the same TV? With the 921 both component and DVI were roughly identical although they worked best with different calibrations of darkness. I've returned the expensive HDMI/DVI cable and have hooked up now with the Dish supplied cable. It's good to know I can do that and save a few bucks and not second guess that one would be better than the other. I'll continue doing a/b comparisons for awhile with different sources.

[Bichon]

While some people will argue the benefits of replacing the Dish supplied component cable with a better one, I doubt that those benefits could be objectively proven in a double blind trial. Nor would I replace the 2 meter cable with a 1.5 meter cable. The performance difference between the two would be difficult to measure, let alone see.

[cebbigh]

Today is the first day I've had off since the 942 arrived and the first real chance to get to know it more than superficially. It is really good to have the component and hdmi both operative to do a/b comparisons. Since I hooked the hdmi up again using the dish supplied cable I have not been seeing the artifacts as I was before. While the picture requires different darkness control and color adjustments the image is looking great. I think that possibly the some of the DVI pins might have been ditry and after "exercising" them come clean. I have been surprised with the image quality after hooking up the composite connections into my dvd recorder. The image in most cases is good for sd. I was not expecting that. There are some color reproduction issues inherent with composite connections, but overall the sd frustration level on the 942 is less than with the 921 despite the 921 svideo output. I do still wish however that the 942 had svideo output.