DVR-942 No digital sound via HDMI connection

[Alaska1]

Connected new 942 to Panasonic Plasma using provided HDMI-DVI adapter cable and am getting no sound. Checked programming on Panasonic and 942, does anyone know if the provided adapter cable passes sound or does one need a HDMI-HDMI cable? Can get sound using analog rca connections or through modulated output. Just can't get digital sound via HDMI.

Jim-Alaska1

[rockfeller]

I may be wrong, but in the list of bugs 942 has,
it does not pass sound through HDMI/DVI, its kind of future software release.

[n0qcu]

The HDMI-DVI cable will not pass sound. If the 942 is capable of passing sound to the HDMI you must use a true HDMI-HDMI cable.

[joebird]

I've done this successfully with my Pioneer plasma. Try setting the sound output to PCM only -- I think the Dolby Digital (which I'm assuming your plasma can't use anyway) has problems via HDMI. But PCM should work.

[Alaska1]

Joebird, your posting indicates audio success with a 942 using HDMI? I have not tried PCM only but will give it a shot. The dealer that sold the Panasonic Plasma has never been able to get sound through the HDMI connection and further says the HDMI technology has issues with sound? Have you ever heard about this kind of thing?

Alaska1

[Alaska1]

Joe, I tried the PCM only setting without success. I still can't figure out which unit is at fault, the 942 or the Panasonic Plasma. Thanks for the tip...

Alaska1

[joebird]

Sorry it didn't work out for you. I'll double-check the audio output options when I get things connected back up on Friday and let you know if any of the options (DD, etc) don't work. Though it sounds as if ou are stuck.

[spiff72]

I would agree with the statement that an HDMI-DVI adapter cable should not be able to pass audio to your TV.

My understanding is that HDMI is a standard that includes both video and audio, but DVI is Video ONLY. (Digital Video Interface - or is it Digital Visual Interface)...

[jakattak]

My understanding is that HDMI is a standard that includes both video and audio, but DVI is Video ONLY.

That is precisely correct. DVI is video only. HDMI is full DVI plus multichannel digital audio. A DVI-HDMI cable will not carry audio, as the DVI end of it doesn't accomodate audio... even if you have an HDMI-DVI cable then add a DV-HDMI adapter on the end (I've seen similar questions asked), the audi was already lost at the DVI connection. The only way to get audio via HDMI is with a true HDMI-HDMI cable and both a source and destination that support full HDMI.

[dathead2]

if you don't want to spring for an hdmi to hdmi cable then you could
just hook a digital coax or optical audio cable from the satellite box to the
tv (or receiver or whatever). of course if you don't have a digital
audio cable and have to buy one, then you might as well just buy the
hdmi cable. $20 should buy you a half decent version of any of those
three cables (of course you can always spend less or more on cables)

i have not tried this yet but see no reason why it wouldn't work.

[joebird]

I got my 942 hooked back up today with my Pioneer plasma. I'm using the HDMI cable out of the 942 with the included adapter (HDMI-->DVI-->HDMI), so I've got HDMI at both ends. I have the 924 set up with PCM/Line in the Dolby Digital menu and I get stereo audio out of the Pioneer just fine. The HDMI cable is the only connection between the two.

[cleblanc]

Okay I've read through all the posts on this topic and can see that digital sound is not being passed through the HDMI connection. So I had to hook my optical cable back up. This totally defeats the purpose of using HDMI. I have a new Denon 3806 receiver and want to be able to use the HDMI-HDMI connection. My question is - does Dish acknowledge that this is a 942 bug and will it be fixed in a future software upgrade. Or is it a hardware issue that can not and will not be fixed?

[Mike Johnson]

To my knowledge, it has never been acknowledged as a "bug". It should be requested to be added on the "Feature Request" thread: http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=42096

[CABill]

Okay I've read through all the posts on this topic and can see that digital sound is not being passed through the HDMI connection.

Or is it a hardware issue that can not and will not be fixed?

You've read through something from last June that has a lot of incorrect information in it. The 942's HDMI connection does pass digital audio through it. Are you saying you don't get any audio at all with your HDMI connection? PCM only?

You can use the supplied HDMI-DVI and DVI-HDMI adapter and still pass audio through from the 942. There is no signal present in an HDMI cable or connector that isn't present in a DVI one. Digital audio is present on the data bits that are common to DVI and HDMI connectors. The difference comes from what the two devices negotiate between themselves for what to put on those data lines for audio. The DVI spec has no provision at all to negotiate audio and that is why there isn't audio present when one end connects via DVI. The cable and adapter supplied with a 942 pass the audio through for lots of users. It isn't any different from an HDMI - HDMI cable. The majority of current devices that use HDMI don't negotiate 5.1 audio - they still only request 2.0 audio.

[dave1234]

Previous poster says:

"The cable and adapter supplied with a 942 pass the audio through for lots of users. It isn't any different from an HDMI - HDMI cable. The majority of current devices that use HDMI don't negotiate 5.1 audio - they still only request 2.0 audio."

This makes perfect sense since the HDMI spec. allows even uncompressed 6 or 8 channel audio to be sent over the interface, therefore the receiving device has to tell the sending device what format it wants or can accept....
This is likely not a 942 bug.

[cleblanc]

I still think this is a bug. I have a Denon 3806 receiver which is capable of receiving a 5.1 audio signal but the 942 will not pass it.
I am receiving audio with the connection but not the 5.1 audio that is being sent.
Since the Denon can receive the 5.1, the problem has to lie with the 942 not sending it. So my question is 'Can and will this be fixed in a future software upgrade?'

[LtMunst]

I still think this is a bug. I have a Denon 3806 receiver which is capable of receiving a 5.1 audio signal but the 942 will not pass it.
I am receiving audio with the connection but not the 5.1 audio that is being sent.
Since the Denon can receive the 5.1, the problem has to lie with the 942 not sending it. So my question is 'Can and will this be fixed in a future software upgrade?'

The spec sheet and all ads regarding the 942 only specified 5.1 over Optical. Sure it would be nice to get it over HDMI, but it is not a "bug". Like Mike said, this is a feature request.

[cleblanc]

I will add this to the feature request. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. But I just read through the user manual on Dish's website and there is nothing in there that says the optical cable must also be hooked up when using an HDMI cable in order to receive 5.1 sound. This is very misleading and I think caught a lot of people by surprise given the posts that I've read.
And I still classify this as a bug (not a feature) since it is not unreasonable to expect that 5.1 sound would be passed when using an HDMI connection unless it clearly says that which it does not.

[LtMunst]

I will add this to the feature request. I'm surprised it hasn't been done already. But I just read through the user manual on Dish's website and there is nothing in there that says the optical cable must also be hooked up when using an HDMI cable in order to receive 5.1 sound. This is very misleading and I think caught a lot of people by surprise given the posts that I've read.
And I still classify this as a bug (not a feature) since it is not unreasonable to expect that 5.1 sound would be passed when using an HDMI connection unless it clearly says that which it does not.

Few people have receivers that take HDMI. The vast majority have a DVI or HDMI on the TV but have receivers that use optical. As HDMI inputs on receivers become more common, it is more likely that Dish will add 5.1 to this output (if possible).

As far as being misleading, the only output Dish says in all the literature that has Dolby Digital is Optical. Nowhere else is Dolby mentioned.

[dave1234]

I need to clarify my previous statement. The 942 may well be able to send 5.1 over HDMI, but if the receiving device isn't requesting 5.1 it won't be sent. The optical link does not have the capability for receiving devices to request stereo or 5.1 audio so it only sends 5.1 audio.
There still may be a bug in the 942 however, unless someone has a newer audio device they know can request 5.1 over HDMI and has it working with a 942....

[Mike Johnson]

I've said this before, too. Dish relabeled the connector from "HDMI" to "HDTV Digital Output". As far as Dish is concerned it isn't a HDMI connector at all. According to the 942 sales flyer the connector is "compatible with HDMI equipped televisions". Maybe it can pass Dolby in the future, but it looks to me like they have been very careful not to refer to the connector as "HDMI" for a reason.

[InDashMP3]

I'm quite confused by the posts saying that the RECEIVER must REQUEST dolby digita. All the HDMI switching receivers ($$$) I have seen, including the ($) one that I have, JVC 402, have an AUTO detect feature to negotiate the type of digital audio that is coming through. The 942 either sends it or doesn't. My receiver only picks up on the PCM. When I hook my optical cable up, all is fine; the receiver auto detect the 5.1 audio.. The fact that the connection was relabled to HDTV digital or whatever, or doesn't excuse the fact that many purchasers and leasees were mislead by the connection type. Including myself.....

[dave1234]

Here is a copy of the HDMI specification.
http://www.hdmi.com/pdf/HDMISpecInformationalVersion.pdf

Note section 8.3 and the requirements that the "sink" ,which is the receiver, must identify what audio it supports.

This still doesn't mean the 942 works correctly, but I thought a clarification of the HDMI spec. was in order.

[InDashMP3]

Dave,

Thank you very much for that link. Very informative. I come to the following conclusion however....My receiver "Sink" DOES identify the proper input signal if connected via the optical connection, which indicates to me that my receiver can detect, and switch accordingly. The following text appears in my instruction manual...

HDMI (for “DVR/DVD,” “VCR” and “DBS”):
Select for the source with HDMI connection.
The receiver automatically detects the
incoming signal format, then the digital signal
format indicator (LINEAR PCM, DOLBY DIGITAL , DTS
, or DTS 96/24) for the detected signal
lights up, and the HDMI lamp on the front
panel lights up.

The only thing that lights up when the HDMI is used with the 942 is the LINEAR PCM. When I use the OPTICAL connection, DOLBY DIGITAL is detected...

[dave1234]

InDash,
It sure sounds like there's an still an issue with the 942...

[InDashMP3]

Dave,

Or as others have stated, a need to make a feature request.....Kinda strange how one "should" be able to look at a connection type, and determine it's capabilities. Dish appears to have been very cautious (as stated above), about identifiying the connection as HDMI. In fact, I searched the online PDF manual of the 942 for "hdmi", and returned 0 results. Additionally, I found this little "TIP"...

• To take full advantage of Dolby Digital 5.1 surround sound, you need an optical cable
and a stereo that supports this feature.

[CABill]

I come to the following conclusion however....My receiver "Sink" DOES identify the proper input signal if connected via the optical connection, which indicates to me that my receiver can detect, and switch accordingly.

Your receiver doesn't "identify" itself at all on the optical connection. That is a unidirectional connection from the source and the same thing is present on the optical cable even if it isn't plugged into a receiver. If you play a DVD that has DTS as a choice, that is what is on the cable, regardless of whether it is plugged into a receiver that supports DTS or not plugged into anything. The receiver needs to be able to switch to match whatever the source puts onto the optical cable.

That is VERY different from HDMI where the video is carried on the same (bidirectional) data lines as the audio. HDMI specs provide a way for the source to identify the capabilities of the "sink" and provide (not require) different audio to different destinations. You'll find posts from people that need to power off and on one or both ends of the HDMI connection to renegotiate audio.

The 942 may not be right, and it would be a good Tech Forum question to ask what it is capable of and if it might change. But it also isn't right to say "No digital sound via HDMI connection". There is digital sound. 5.1 and Dolby Digital aren't the same thing. The HDMI FAq (http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp) says:

Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?
Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case. Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly.

[InDashMP3]

The 942 may not be right, and it would be a good Tech Forum question to ask what it is capable of and if it might change. But it also isn't right to say "No digital sound via HDMI connection". There is digital sound. 5.1 and Dolby Digital aren't the same thing. The HDMI FAq (http://www.hdmi.org/consumer/faq.asp) says:

Does HDMI support Dolby 5.1 audio and high-resolution audio formats?
Yes. From the start, HDMI was defined to carry 8-channels, of 192kHz, 24-bit uncompressed audio, which exceeds all current consumer media formats. In addition, HDMI can carry any flavor of compressed audio format such as Dolby or DTS. (Such compressed formats are the only multi-channel or high-resolution audio formats that can be carried across the older S/PDIF or AES/EBU interfaces.) The fact that the vast majority of HDMI products shipped are two-channel TVs that don’t support more than two-channel audio doesn’t make this any less the case. Most existing HDMI sources can output any compressed stream, and the newer sources can output uncompressed 6-channel, 96kHz audio from a DVD-Audio disk. There are several A/V receivers on the market that can accept and process the 6- or 8-channel audio from HDMI and more are expected to be available shortly.

CABill,

You are right. I suppose it is not fair to say that the 942 is not working correctly, and I agree that this is an excellent question for the Tech Forum..(When is the next one?) It is becoming clear to me that the 942 simply does not output 5.1 audio through it's "HDTV" connection. Shame on me for assuming...

[cleblanc]

CABill,

It is becoming clear to me that the 942 simply does not output 5.1 audio through it's "HDTV" connection. Shame on me for assuming...

My point exactly. Dish can call this connection whatever it wants but it is STILL an HDMI connection requiring an HDMI cable. People who purchased or leased the receiver have a valid expectation that 5.1 Dolby Digital sound could and would be passed. It is misleading of Dish to omit this feature without stating that fact. The fact that it is not mentioned does not automatically mean that we should know that it's not there. To me it is implied unless stated otherwise. The Denon audio receiver has no problem receiving the 5.1 signal since my DVD player passes the Dolby Digital 5.1 signal to it so I know the problem lies with the 942. I have added this as a feature request and I agree it would make a great technical forum topic.

[dave1234]

Here's a link to a news group posting on HDMI audio. Doesn't sound very promising for any equipment in the short term, assuming the posting is fundamentally correct.

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.tv.tech.hdtv/browse_thread/thread/c97cbd3121c6997a/8638855d782daa3a?lnk=st&q=hdmi+dolby+audio&rnum=1&hl=en#8638855d782daa3a

[CABill]

Tech Forum: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:00 p.m. ET** Channel 101

Searches should turn up web sites with roughly the same info as the post Dave1234 cited - 5.1 isn't widely available on HDMI. From a consumer perspective, it isn't unreasonable to assume 5.1 would be available from the 942. It shouldn't be that difficult to pass through DD 5.1 where the source had it to begin with. I'm certainly not privy to what difficulties DISH might run into if it tried to do so, but it seems worth asking.

cleblanc - I realize you didn't name this thread, but I thought you weren't getting any audio at all. I probably wouldn't have said anything at all but the June comment that you couldn't use the 942 supplied cable and adapter really threw me.

[cleblanc]

Tech Forum: Monday, November 14, 2005 9:00 p.m. ET** Channel 101

cleblanc - I realize you didn't name this thread, but I thought you weren't getting any audio at all. I probably wouldn't have said anything at all but the June comment that you couldn't use the 942 supplied cable and adapter really threw me.
CABill - that wasn't my quote. I never said I wasn't getting audio at all. Maybe I said digital audio. I'm not sure if the audio is a DD 2.0 or a PCM audio that the 942 is sending over the HDMI connection. My guess is that it is PCM since my receiver would tell me if it was receiving a Dolby Digital 2.0 signal or not. The bottom line though is - Can Dish software be upgraded to pass the full digial 5.1 audio or not? If so, will it be in the near future. It is crazy to have to hook up two digital audio cables (HDMI and Optical).