EchoStar 5

[JohnH]

ECHOSTAR SATELLITE LLC. Granted EchoStar Satellite LLC's Application
for Special Temporary Authority to relocate EchoStar 5 satellite from
the current orbital location of 119 degrees W.L. to the 129 degrees WL
orbital location. Action by: Deputy Chief, Satellite Division,
International Bureau. Adopted: 06/30/2005 by Order Authorization. (DA
No. 05-1888). IB

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-1888A1.doc
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-1888A1.pdf
http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_public/attachmatch/DA-05-1888A1.txt

[James Long]

Congrats ...

Shame they apparently didn't get 77 before Mexico's July 1st deadline.

JL

[JohnH]

Wasn't that July 10?

[Mike Phillips]

So at this point and time which sat's are going to which spots for what supposed purpose? Thanks,Mike

[JohnH]

EchoStar 4 is streaking acroos the sky to 61.5w with a possible stop at 77w to do something.

EchoStar 5 has been approved to move to 129w. It is thought it might do some Hi Def there.

One should not expect any specifics on programming changes or additions for quite some time.

[rocatman]

I would expect that E-5 will be moved slowly from 119 W to 129 W because of the attitude control problems the satellite has incurred. Dish has until August 25, 2005 to have E-5 in place at 129 W. Dish will have use of a minimum of 16 TPs from 129 W and rumors have Dish using these for HD. This would give Dish capacity for at least 48 HD channels using MPEG-2 and at least 96 HD channels using MPEG-4.

[James Long]

Wasn't that July 10?Correct. My bad. Dropped a zero in my mind.

BTW: Lingsat has E4 @ 82.27º today moving 7.36º per day
They better throw on the brakes ... tommorow they will be past 77º! (I'd guess they are going to 61.5º and coming back if the FCC relents. Either that or Lyngsat missed the slowing to approach 77º.)

JL

[JohnH]

Unfortunately, the latest TLE set is 2 days old. Hopefully they will issue a new one today.

[CoreyH]

This is hugely exciting news. :D The two largest cities in my DMA (Rochester and Mason City) can't get more than one network via OTA even with an amp. Charter/Mediacom are going to feel the pain once Echo 5 is in place at 129, the DMA is uplinked and the the three orbital position Dish 1000 ships.

I know a lot of forum readers are more excited about HD channels. Don't get me wrong - HD is great - but Dish has a lot of markets like Rochester and Mason City where cable owns the market because of echo's lack of locals. Fixing the local situation is going to be a huge success for dish.

Fortunately with the number of transponders available at 129 and the number of local markets dish has yet to light up - it doesn't sound like an either/or proposition. We'll likely get all 210 DMA's and a lot more HD content including HD locals (which will even get us HD locals via SHVERA).

Some DMAs like Lafayette, IN and Mankato, MN have a single Network affiliate so in fact adding the last 51 DMAs won't mean 300 new uplinked stations to finish off the 210.

[rocatman]

I went back and read the FCC order and authorization for Dish's use of 129 W. Unless the FCC document is in error, Dish has exclusive right to use all the capacity on E-5 until September 30, 2008 which would be 32 CONUS TPs. 32 CONUS TPs can provide 384 SD channels or 96 HD MPEG-2 channels or a minimum of 192 HD MPEG-4 channels. Combinations of these are possible as well although unless the MPEG-4 receivers are substantially delayed, I don't expect Dish to provide any new MPEG-2 HD channels.

[logray]

...I don't expect Dish to provide any new MPEG-2 HD channels.

I disagree. Even though MPEG-2 HD channels take up valuable real estate - there's nothing that says they can't use a few transponders - maybe 4 or 5 - in the short term to make existing content such as Voom more accessible to west coast subscribers, as well as the possibility of making new content available such as ESPN2HD, etc. This still gives them 20 or so transponders to provide no fewer than 240 locals/etc.

In the longer term when MPEG4 finally shows up and they've swapped out all those old MPEG2 boxes with new MPEG4 backwards compatible MPEG2 boxes, they can convert TP from MPEG2 to MPEG4. And around this time they will be able to carry local HD channels as well.... As it is, there just isn't enough HIDEF programming out there to worry about a few TP. My 2 cents.

[James Long]

I disagree. Even though MPEG-2 HD channels take up valuable real estate - there's nothing that says they can't use a few transponders - maybe 4 or 5 - in the short term to make existing content such as Voom more accessible to west coast subscribers, as well as the possibility of making new content available such as ESPN2HD, etc.Why? That is the biggest question.

Putting Voom there will encourage subscribers to buy dishes and MPEG2 equipment that will be totally useless in the HD world of the future. Do you want to create thousands more annoyed customers expecting a handout? At this point E* doesn't want to attract a ton of customers just to turn around and annoy them in a few months.

The same with other new HD channels. Unless there is a good reason to add ESPN2HD (such as contract restrictions with ESPN) it would be better to hold back until the BIG release late in the fall.

Adding Voom was done just to keep the channels alive. E* probably got a little bump from adding Voom - but E* isn't trying to attract HD customers at this time due to the expected cost of converting them to MPEG4 (most likely) later this year.

JL

[logray]

I don't think Dish is about to turn away new customers even if they have to later swap out boxes or encourage them to. What's a few more thousand going to hurt on top of what they already have? I think that Voom would be a great way to get a lot of new customers and with all the HD they are providing hook them into getting MPEG 4 when it is available. IMHO, I think they can get something up and running at 129w with MPEG2 and new channels as well as more coverage of existing ones (voom) much faster than they can an MPEG4 box rolled out in mass. Perhaps if they push out boxes that are MPEG2 and MPEG4 compatible in the future they can have lot of upgradeability/transferability/redundancy capabilities... so a few TP sooner rather than later for HD might not be a bad thing. Just tossing around a few ideas.

[James Long]

I don't think Dish is about to turn away new customers even if they have to later swap out boxes or encourage them to.They practically said it verbatum in a Charlie Chat earlier this year.

See this post (http://dbstalk.com/showpost.php?p=373169&postcount=7) from March 14th ...
So one of the things that we want to wait on is to add a lot of channels in MPEG-4 so we don't have a lot of people to work with to upgrade to that new service.
. . . the product isn't out until late this fall.
Charlie Ergen on the Charlie Chat

JL

[JohnH]

Looks like they have been granted permission to communicate with EchoStar 5 when it reaches 129w with 1,000,000 dishes. It will be a foreign satellite when it reaches there.

[mwgiii]

Just curious, how does the FCC know how many dishes are pointed to a specific satellite and what happens if Dish has 1,000,001 pointed to 129?

[JohnH]

The FCC doesn't know, but EchoStar will know how many are subscribed to programming on that satellite and will apply for an increase in the number when approaching 1,000,000.

[dhughes248]

what difference does it makes how many dshes are pointed at a satellite? There is no capacity problem as in cable. Every dish in CONUS could be pointed to it and would not affect the picture quality.

If transponders are used for Internet, etc. that's a different kettle of fish.

[JohnH]

From a technical standpoint it makes no difference, but a service such as DISH Network must have license for those dishes.

[James Long]

what difference does it makes how many dshes are pointed at a satellite?It is a legal requirement.

A DBS dish inside the US is subject to license if it isn't pointed at a US DBS slot or other approved location. In this case (as well as D* at 72.5) the DBS provider is getting a blanket license to cover a set number of their customer's dishes.

BTW: This is the law that makes it 'illegal' to watch Canadian services such as BEV from the US. The BEV satellites are not on the approved list, so one needs a license - and you can't get a license without the satellite company's permission. BEV won't give permission if they know you live in the US.

JL

[David_Levin]

Looks like they have been granted permission to communicate with EchoStar 5 when it reaches 129w with 1,000,000 dishes. It will be a foreign satellite when it reaches there.

Could 1,000,000 also be a valid number for hi-def receivers?

Many local markets are probably under 1 million too.

[James Long]

Could 1,000,000 also be a valid number for hi-def receivers?

Many local markets are probably under 1 million too.1 / 12th of all subscribers?

One million is just a good round number.

JL

[rocatman]

This maybe a hint of what programming will be placed on E-5 at 129 W. IIRC recent software versions for the 811 had a choice for 129 W in the Installation/Point Dish menu. The most recent software version, P2.89 does not. This may be an indication that only MPEG-4 programming would be going on E-5 at 129 W. This might just be a coincidence or just to save memory space on the 811 but if MPEG-2 SD or HD programming were going on E-5 at 129 W, the 811 needs to be able to receive it. This would require a Installation/Point Dish menu pick for 129 W.