921 or 942

[Kendick]

It is decision time for me. I currently have an 811 and a 510. I now own a new HDTV Plasma but am unable to record anything in HD,
Dish is now promoting the 921 for $549 and the 942 for $998 installed.

I am open to recommendations as to which one to go for. I would like to trade in the 510 for either but I am sure Dish will not be receptive.

Recommendation??

[DonLandis]

Be smart and don't do either one. Both are trouble. Go with an HDTIVO. They work and you can add hard drive capacity easily. Read the bug threads to see for yourself. All three of the receivers are on death row in 18 months or so, with MP4 on the horizon so if you must buy now, why not get something that works and will not raise your blood pressure into causing you a heart attack.
I own both and the HDTIVO just works and is no problem. The 921 is a mess. Dishnetwork is extorting fees on it for OTA use and charging others for service their software fails to supply. It's a mess! While the 942 is less a problem it also has too many issues for a pricey receiver on death row. Go with an HDTIVO and DirecTV if you don't want problems with the equipment.

[JohnC]

Be smart and don't do either one. Both are trouble. Go with an HDTIVO. They work and you can add hard drive capacity easily. Read the bug threads to see for yourself. All three of the receivers are on death row in 18 months or so, with MP4 on the horizon so if you must buy now, why not get something that works and will not raise your blood pressure into causing you a heart attack. Go with an HDTIVO and DirecTV if you don't want problems with the equipment.

If a person is serious about HD, I do not understand why someone would change from E* to D* at the present time. From my experience with E* and the large majority of the posts that I read, the E* HD PQ is substantially better than D* and E* has more than twice the HD available than D*. D* does a lot of talking about HD, but E* has come through with the HD.

Presently I use a 510 for SD and SD recording and a 6000 for the HD channels and for SD channels when recording another SD program on the 510. It works quite well and I can switch the audio and video with my remotes. I am leasing the 510 and bought the 6000 with OTA and PSK modules for $149 when E* had their closeout sale on the 6000. When the E* MPEG4 HD DVR is released I plan obtain it if it is stable and I can lease it (or purchase it for a reasonable price). I really do enjoy the HD (both OTA and from E*) on our big screen HD TV! If D* overtakes and surpasses E* in HD, I would certainly consider switching. At the present time it appears that E* is way ahead in HD and I enjoy HD too much to switch.

[DonLandis]

John C-

I've had both for nearly 5 years now. Recently E* did move ahead of D* with adding VOOM 10 channels. Good move. However, That's it! In flipping back and forth between E* and D* say discovery HD, HBO HD or HDNet, the PQ is either equal or actually slightly better on D* when not in the NFL season. When NFL ST rolls around the PQ flips contest winnings on Showtime and HBO for the most part, sometimes on HDNet movies as well making E* the PQ winner. I've run the tests here and that is where I stand on it.

This morning I put my money where my mouth is and dumped AEP. Now I just have the E* VOOM and HDpack. I increased my D* package on the HDTIVO and feel very good about no longer seeing all the screwups with the 921. The only thing I have left on the 921 now are channels that don't seem to be affected by the ubiquitous 921 incompetence.

BTW- I suspect that when D* is ready, they will be stepping up to the plate and beefing up their HD lineup as well. For now, I have realigned my DBS package maximizing HD content, minimizing cost and frustration. That was my goal and I'm happy I did that. And BTW- I will add the additional VOOM channels when they become available on E* assuming they don't pig out the cost or only make them MP4.

Serious about HDTV. Heck I even own an HDTV camera now. See how serious I am!

[JohnL]

John C-

I've had both for nearly 5 years now. Recently E* did move ahead of D* with adding VOOM 10 channels. Good move. However, That's it! In flipping back and forth between E* and D* say discovery HD, HBO HD or HDNet, the PQ is either equal or actually slightly better on D* when not in the NFL season. When NFL ST rolls around the PQ flips contest winnings on Showtime and HBO for the most part, sometimes on HDNet movies as well making E* the PQ winner. I've run the tests here and that is where I stand on it.

This morning I put my money where my mouth is and dumped AEP. Now I just have the E* VOOM and HDpack. I increased my D* package on the HDTIVO and feel very good about no longer seeing all the screwups with the 921. The only thing I have left on the 921 now are channels that don't seem to be affected by the ubiquitous 921 incompetence.

BTW- I suspect that when D* is ready, they will be stepping up to the plate and beefing up their HD lineup as well. For now, I have realigned my DBS package maximizing HD content, minimizing cost and frustration. That was my goal and I'm happy I did that. And BTW- I will add the additional VOOM channels when they become available on E* assuming they don't pig out the cost or only make them MP4.

Serious about HDTV. Heck I even own an HDTV camera now. See how serious I am!


Don,

DirecTV has admitted that their HD is downrezd. They have far fewer HD channels than Dish and PQ on the SD channels is about the same.

DirecTV can say they are "PLANNING" to add thousands of HD Channels all they want, but almost all of those channels will be Locals. So if and ONLY if DirecTV offers YOUR LOCAL Market channels in HD will you get any MORE HD channels likely requiring EXTRA DOLLARS for something that is available FREE for Most subscribers. Since Dish doesn't offer NFL Sunday Ticket we don't care about DirecTV's PLANS to offer HD Channels in the NFL PACKAGE for MORE MONEY.

I have never and will never pay extra cash for Locals from either company. Those are channels that are OTA and can be received at vastly better PQ for FREE in both SD and HD. I really don't understand the vast majority of subscribers that require or won't switch to DBS without Locals via Satellite

All I need is either a HDTV with Intergrated ATSC tuner or a DBS HD DVR receiver with an integrated OTA ATSC tuner.

DirecTV's plans are pure vapor. Besides many, many local markets have owners that want extra bucks for the additional HD Channels. With DirecTV balk at these fees who knows and or bypass entire markets because of this. Even if DirecTV has the spotbeam capacity they don't have the sheer number of Conus and Side Slot transponders that Dish has when most channels switch to HD.

Bandwidth wise DISH has a vastly better chance to carry more Content at a higher bitrate than DirecTV and will in the near term and into the future. Local into Local is overrated and a unnecessary waste of limited bandwidth considering that 95 percent of the content in the NAB system is repeated network content.

Bottomline the NAB system is outdated. All I care for and about is actual Network content. Since most Local OTA content is either Infomercials or the local news with the vast majority being Infomercials, WHO CARES.

John

John

[DonLandis]

"DirecTV has admitted that their HD is downrezd."

So has Sony in the HDCAM format! The 1080i x1920 standard is downresed in the HDCAM recorder to 1080i x 1440. So how come you are not running about the forum complaining about that? I challenge anyone to show me the difference between a 1280 image and a 1920 image when their reference monitor only sees 1280 (pixels). Very few people are using reference monitor at 1920 pixels. The whole point of downresing, in this region of the resolution spectrum, is ridiculous when one considers the facts. It only has substance for those who want to rest on the emotional impact of using it without real data in an argument.

Plus, there are other arguments that make the whole subject of D* downresing a silly argument when considering the cinematic facts. The argument only holds water for those who don't understand the numbers but remain comfortable with the emotion of it. Reminds me the the Circuit City salesman who said I needed an oval dish shape because it worked better, was a better fit for the wide screen image of HDTV. He actually believed that too. :D

[Jon Spackman]

Don,

Have you ever used a 942? You say it's a piece of crap, but I want to know if you have one or have had one. I respect your knowledge and realize that you have posted many informative posts, but I think you are jumping the gun on the 942. I realize that the 921, 942, and hdtivo will become surpassed with the onset of mpg4 but that could realistically be a while before jumping on the mpg4 bandwagon is a reliable move.


Jon

[datwell]

Don, you are most certainly welcome to your own opinion; however, we just love the 942!

Old Charlie & E* will do MPEG-4 someday and we will have to upgrade to the 962 someday, but in the meantime, we are very happy with the 942.

--Doug

[DonLandis]

"Have you ever used a 942? You say it's a piece of crap..."

Obviously you have me confused with someone else. Never said that! Maybe you were reading Yahoo groups Dishmod as one 942 owner recently did post that exact claim about it being crap. It wasn't me because I don't post on yahoo groups.

In another thread I did say that the 942 has many issues, not the same as the 921 but different issues. Anyone can read about these in this forum. The few people who have absolutly no problems with the 942 are similar to those who have no issues with the 921. Then there are those who have problems with them. I have had a few problems with the 921 but the serious problems that made the 921 unusable were corrected with updates. I believe the same holds true for the 942. Same for the HDTIVO, a few have had serious problems with the hard drive and the DVI port. I have not had any problems with the HDTIVO. It just works.

The point I want to emphasize is that both offer much less performance for the buck than what you get from the competition. I have also said it's all about programming, not the hardware but if the hardware makes the programming look terrible then, what's the point of superior programming. Like the 921, users are reporting issues with the 942 with inconsistency. Again the point is that both the 921 and 942 have issues and their life expectancy is running short.

FYI- I have had the 921 since January 2004 and the HDTIVO since June 2004.