Dish 501(?) Problem

[acp]

I'm not sure if this is a 501 problem or not.

On most if not all of the Orlando locals I notice a very subtle color change at a rate of every 0.5~1 seconds. The change is slight and some people may not notice it. My critical eye does notice it and it bugs the hell out of me.

I have checked many other channels on both the 110 and 119 satellite and so far have only detected it on the Orlando locals.

The color change is only noticeable in caucasian flesh tones. The shift is from "pinkish" tone to "browish" tone, keep in mind it's a very slight change. The shift continues if I pause the 501. I only notice it on live or video taped programs. 60 minutes last night with lots of close head shots was particularly annoying.

I'm using the 501 S-Video output into my TV.

I have piped the SMPTE color bar chart from a Video Essentials DVD into the TV's S-Video input and it's rock solid.

I have two 3900s, one on the same dish as the 501 and one on a separate dish. They both use the RF input. No color shift on either one.

I guess my next step is to try the RF and non S-Video 501 outputs but I really think that is going to be an exercise in futility. Plus it's a lot of moving stuff around.

I dread calling Dish CS and I know all the hoops they're going to have me jump through. You know the drill, power off, pull the card, do this reset, do that reset, download this, download that, do the switch check, read of the signal levels, change the lnb's, change the receivers, change the TVs, check the NVRAM, change the RG-6. I've been through all that so many times I could puke. I'm on the 4th 501 in the past 4 months!

Could it be something at the uplink center where the Orlando channels are getting hosed?

Can you think of something else I should be trying before jumping in the fire with fine Dish CSRs?

Thanks for taking time to read this.....

Al

[Mark Lamutt]

I wonder if this would fall under the heading of color posturization. I've never heard of your specific problem - are the Orlando locals on a spot beam? And I think the real kicker here is that you say the color shift still happens when you pause the video. That would point to a connection problem. What kind of svideo cable are you using? Most times you'd never see a visible difference between a cheap svideo cable and an expensive one, but in your case, if you are using a very cheap one, it may make a difference. At the very least, I would suggest swapping that cable out for another one to see if your cable is the problem. Also, are you connecting your svideo directly to your television, or does it go through your receiver or a switcher first? If it's not directly connected to your tv, try that as well. Let us know how it works out, please. I doubt you'd get any useful tips to try out of Dish CS, especially at the tier 1 support level.

[Chris Blount]

I agree with Mark. Definitely sounds like a connection problem especially since it happens when the 501 is paused.

Other than what Mark suggests you might want to check to make sure the video connection from the 501 does not cross any power cords or any other lines that could cause interference.

No, do not call the Dish CS. They are not too good at solving these types of problems.

BTW: Welcome to DBSTalk.Com! :hi:

[acp]

Mark, Chris.

Thanks for the replies. I have not ruled out a bad cable, but why would it not affect all channels. I have done extensive critical viewing of may other channels besides the Orlando locals and have yet to find another with the same problem.

I don't think the spot beam is involved as the Orlando's are on E5 according to the channel lineup on this site.

Yes, the S-Video is going through an A/V receiver.

Guess I'm gonna have to bite bullet and try different cabling and routing.

Thanks for your suggestions, I'll report my findings.

Al

[DishDude1]

I have noticed this too on Pittsburgh locals.

[acp]

DishDude,

Are you also using the S-Video output/input? Have you done any experimenting? Are you using a 501?

As I said above, I have two 3900's into non-S-Video TVs and don't notice this problem.

Al

[DishDude1]

Sorry, I am using a 501 through the S-video input on my 27" Zenith flat screen TV. Pittsburgh locals are not on spotbeams. I noticed this problem a few months ago but then it went away and it is now back. I just began to notice it again in the last week or so. I cannot remember if I had my old 4900 or the other 501 the last time this was occuring, but it was definately happening on a different receiver since I have only had this one 2 months. I don't see this problem when using Directv or DVD. And before you say anything about my Zenith, it really is a nice TV!! :) Also, the S-video cable is not going through my receiver but directly to the tv, and I have replaced the standard E* S video cable with a better one.

[acp]

I've done some more testing and in my mind it is the combination of the Orlando local and the 501.

I get the color shift in all the following configs (same TV used in all setups):

1. S-Video direct to the TV
2. 501 RF out direct to TV
3. Non-S-Video, non-RF output direct to TV

I don't get color shift in the following configs:

1. DVD player S-Video direct to TV
2. Same DBS antenna config to 3900 > direct to TV

I have checked many non-Orlando channels and have not found one with the color shift.

I think my next step is to talk with some upper level tech (if this is possible) and see if they can detect the same problem.

1. How do I get past the their first line of defense (the initial CSR) without going through a bunch of what I think would be useless "tests" and get right to some tech who may or may not be knowledgeable?

2. How do I get the "tech" to investigate my allegations?

Maybe I'm just paranoid about dealing with these people but my somewhat extensive interfacing with these folks has me anticipating the worst. If I start getting the run around it will be hard for me to control my emotions for long. Been there, done that with these CSRs/techs.

Thanks....

Further testing so far shows that the shift is only Orlando locals on 110 TP16. The other Orlando locals on 110 TP26 have no problem.

Transponder problem? Being a digital signal, maybe a single bit is being added or subtracted?

[DishDude1]

I am noticing it only on Pittsburgh locals, looks to me like a problem with the local feed. In a lot of areas they actually have antennas up and then use fiber optic back to CO, and then use equipment to clean up the picture...this may be a result of that. This isn't something to call into a CSR about...I know there is an e-mail address where you can alert them to problems with picture quality, but I forget what it is. A search of the dish network website should turn it up.

[AllieVi]

acp,

Does a neighbor or friend in your area also have DISH? Maybe you could swap receivers/TV's around a bit to experiment. If it's a system problem, others in your area should be affected, too.

[acp]

AllieVi,

Thanks for your suggestions. I don't know anyone locally that has Dish service. I'm not really of a mind to drag TVs and IRDs around anyway.

I'm convinced in my mind that it's a 501 problem, transmission problem or combination of the two. Seems fishy that it's confined to one transducer. Now I just have to convince Dish of that. I'm gonna wait a few days and see if by some stroke of luck it clears up. Probably should wait til Orlando gets on one of the spot beams. Actually 90% of my TV watching is channels other than Orlando. But when I do watch Orlando that shift bugs the hell out of me. I used to design computer CRT monitors and I'm really tuned-in to picture anomalies.

I had three 501s fail in a period of about one month, different symptoms. During one of my conversations with a tech he "explained" to me that the 501s "have more sensitive circuitry" and are subject to more problems!

Tech support, yeah right!

Thanks again.

[DishDude1]

ok, upon further investigation I discovered it is only happening on the four major networks which are on 110 TP 15

[HTguy]

The unique thing about the 501, or any IRD/PVR such as the DP or DirecTV Tivos or UTVs is that the bitsteam is written to the HD before being decoded & put out. (You've probably noticed the slight time delay when changing channels or comparing the same channel simultaneously on another rcvr in your house.)

I would have to suspect this relates to your c/o's re:locals wherein the feed to the uplink center comes in via fiber instead of directly by C-Band VC. The local feed is generally of a lower quality to begin with & some cases is captured by an OTA head-end antenna subject to atmospheric & other environmental reception problems.

In other words, since the problem only relates to LILs and the PVR, the combination of lower PQ from the feed, MPEG compression @ the UC, and the initial writing of the bitstream to the HD most likely results in what you are seeing.

Hopefully, when all the spot beams are working & optimized the problem will be solved or minimized.

[acp]

HTguy,

Thanks for the insight. I fully understand everything you described. Seems strange it's only one transponder (Orlando locals are on two TPs).

I have written an email to dish "tech support" last Firday detailing my findings. No reply to this time 6/12 - 2:00P.

Anyone have experience with Dish responding to emailed tech querries?

[DRJDAN]

I have the same problem at times in Dallas on local news programs. I have a 301 and 501 connected to one Sony XBR 36" both connected with S-Video. The 501 seems to have the problem more than the 301.

I have two other 301's connected to 13" TV's--don't notice much on them--one is connected RCA, and one is RF.

I have not noticed it much in last week or two.

[bryan27]

DishDude1, The same thing happens with the Pittsburgh Locals on D*. I am guessing that it is a problem from the fiber feed from the stations to the POP. On D* it happens a few times a day on Chs. 2,19,22,53. KDKA & WNPA both send their signals on the same line and WPGH & WCWB also send their signals on a combined line. Perhaps the fiber feed occasionally has problems sending more than 1 station on it. The problem never occurs on WQED which is picked up OTA (D* still transmitts snow when they sign off) and WPCB which is picked up via satellite.