DISCUSSION OF BUG: No program title on banner for sub channels.

[Ron Barry]

Found a cosmetic bug while playing with the "No Info" issue. The info banner for Sub channels with guide information does not show the guide info or the title. Instead it shows "Local programming" in the title. Cosmetic one for sure.

[logray]

I'm guessing that there are a whole host of issues that pop up once NO INFO symptoms arise. If only Dish would let us see debug output... the whole bug resolution process would be much faster.

[Ron Barry]

This issue is not "No Info" releated. I get this before I hit the No Info. As to seeing debug output.. If it is anything like the debug output I see on the tape library I recently worked on it would only make sense to the developers. Given the resource limitations I would not be suprised.. Even if the debug was not cryptic to save on space, without context lots of times it makes no sense.

[tonyp56]

Ron,

I am not sure what you are talking about here, sorry. "The info banner for Sub channels with guide information does not show the guide info or the title." Are you talking about a channel like 034-02 not showing guide data or are you talking about 034-01 not showing guide data? If you are talking about a channel like 034-02 not showing guide data, it never has, and most likely never will. If the channel is 034-01, then I'd have to say, that is Dish's fault. Almost all OTA receivers besides Dish receivers display guide data and map to the correct channel without any problems, it is the 811 and its "PSIP has to be perfect" that is causing channels like 034-01 to not have guide data. (Yes, I know that the 811 doesn't use the PSIP data for guide data, however, it requires it so that the 811 can map and match with LIL stations that give the OTA channels their EPG data)

I get guide data for Fox 23, Fox 25, WB 34 (sometimes) and UPN 41 (which I can't get it too lock anymore). Fox 23 isn't from my DMA (I am in OKC's DMA, that channel is from Tulsa), however I still get guide data. My CBS, NBC, PAX (1 from Tulsa and 1 from OKC plus three subs each. Though I understand this cause they don't carry a local PAX channel), and PBS channels (one from Tulsa and one from OKC plus 3 subchannels each) do not show ANY guide data, rather it be channel 011-01 or 011-02 it only shows "Local Digital". (even though for the exception of the Pax channels, Dish carries these channels in my area, and none of the channels in question are subchannels higher than 011-01 for instance. In other words, none of the channels that I am concerned about are 011-02, 011-03, 011-04 etc... )

The only way to fix this, put a dedicated OTA tuner inside the 811 (or any future Dish Network receiver), that operates like any other tuner out there (use the PSIP data for guide data and channel mapping, no more using the PSIP for channel mapping and then to match the channel by the PSIP data to a satellite feed LIL channel for guide data). If you don't want people canceling their satellite service and getting a cheap OTA tuner then put in a software lock that locks out the OTA tuner if a satellite signal isn't present. Until this happens you are going to have channels that don't show guide data, and you are going to have miss mapped channels. Or, Dish needs to remove the OTA tuner from the receiver completely, and just allow a pass through or something for an external tuner! The way that Dish has chosen to give EPG data for OTA is flawed, and until it is changed or removed these type of problems will remain, no matter how many software updates we receive. I've asked in the past if the 811 could be dumbed up, to which you and Jason said it couldn't, so this is the only fix I can see. Basically the 811 is too smart for its own good. (or I guess I should say ours) And it would IMO require the 811 to be dumbed up to allow you to have guide data for OTA sub-channels. (which includes the title of the show, channel call letters etc...)

[boylehome]

Found a cosmetic bug while playing with the "No Info" issue. The info banner for Sub channels with guide information does not show the guide info or the title. Instead it shows "Local programming" in the title. Cosmetic one for sure.
I see this too for the PBS OTA. It is only there for the fist block and the rest beyond it is, "No information available" (I see this on my 921's guides too)

[Ron Barry]

Actually Tony. For a number of my sub channels I do show guide data in the LA DMA. And for sub channels with Guide data, the banners should show just like the Primary OTA channels.

Example:
07-01 ABC contained normal ABC programming
07-02 ABC shows some other ABC programming
07-03 ABC Shows traffice and weather.

None of these show local data, but when you change channels using ChUp and ChDn, you get the "Local Programming" banner.

[tonyp56]

Actually Tony. For a number of my sub channels I do show guide data in the LA DMA. And for sub channels with Guide data, the banners should show just like the Primary OTA channels.

Example:
07-01 ABC contained normal ABC programming
07-02 ABC shows some other ABC programming
07-03 ABC Shows traffice and weather.

None of these show local data, but when you change channels using ChUp and ChDn, you get the "Local Programming" banner.

Well, you are lucky cause I don't get anything except "Local Digital" on all sub channel besides -01, and on -01 channels I only get guide data on three channels (plus one that I can't get locked). Guide data for those OTA channels that I get it on acts just like guide data for satellite channels. For instance 025-01 is the OKC fox channel, 025-02 is a weather station and 025-03 is a highlights channel, the only channel that I get any information on is 025-01 which shows what is on, what it is about etc... The other two sub-channels say "Local Digital" in the banner, and then they say "No info available" in the info screen.

IMO, the 811 would work so much easier if the OTA tuner worked just like any other OTA tuner. Instead of using PSIP data to map and supply guide data, the 811 uses PSIP to map and therefore match with satellite delievered LIL channels and then supply guide data to the OTA channels from the satellite local channels. That to me seems like to many steps just to give guide data. Dish should just bite the bullet and realize that people aren't going to pay $5.99 a month for LIL channels when they can get digital quality locals OTA, and they damn sure won't pay $5.99 just for guide data. (I know the 811 doesn't require locals to give you guide data, but that is Dish's plan for all future receivers including the 921 and 942--which aren't future, but they require locals subscriptions to give guide data on OTA channels--) Or like I said in my post, remove the OTA tuner and allow a pass through for an external OTA tuner.