Are you seeing "No Info" on your EPG and Unable to refresh guide?

[Ron Barry]

This is a Poll to see if you are exprience any issues with seeing your EPG show as having "No Info" and unable to get Guide information back without doing a reboot.

IF you ran into this issue with 289, please list your hardware information. You can get this from you System Information screen.

By Channel surfer I mean you do a lot of channel changing using the ChUp and ChDown keys on the remote and don't use the EPG for changing channels.

THe reason for this poll is to try an get some more field information relating to the bug discussed below.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=44514

Also.. If you have more detailed notes to your "No Info" experience, please add them to the URL above.

[Ron Barry]

Yes I can get this to happen. I have seen it a few times because I was trying to reproduce it. I do not see it with my normal fewing habits. I use EPG for 90% plus for channel changing.

Device:
DP44-500
Twin-1(1)
Twin-2(2)
Dual-2(4)

DNASP: 02 REV283
BOOTSTRAP: 1014
HARDWAREID: LADD-N
SOFTWARE: 289

[logray]

My parent's 811 happened once a week during normal viewing habits. They use channel up and down a lot, so they were obviously more likely to hit this bug. Even though others out there in the world may not channel surf this way, there are those that do, and for them I am very hopeful that they have or will run into this error condition.

Here's the info on their 811:
DNASP: 02Rev283
HardwareID LADD-N
Bootstrap 1014
Software 2.89

Device:
SW64
all legacy duals with 119, 110, 148

[logray]

I had no issues getting this bug to appear this evening on my Uncle's 811.

He is running different hardware than ours Ron.

Here's his info:
DNASP: 02 REV283
BOOTSTRAP: 1014
HARDWAREID: LABD-N
SOFTWARE: 2.89

Device: DP dual

FYI: at this point I'm going to go ahead and ramp up visability of this issue since we have moved to the polling stage.

[HarryO]

Once I watch an OTA channel, the EPG goes brain dead with no info and hangs. Very poor update, IMHO. Of course, rebooting is your only option. We are being assimilated....

[tonyp56]

I haven't seen this, however, I don't channel surf, nor do I spend a lot of time looking at OTA or even LIL channels. I use the EPG to change channels probably 99% of the time. As you can see by my signature I have the same hardware config as Ron and logray.

If I ever get a chance I will try to get my 811 to mess up like this, but I haven't had a chance. (haven't had a chance to down my 811 for 20 minutes, sorry)

Dish 500 with Dishpro quad. (No external switches)

[cpdretired]

Since the 289 update I have not seen the no info on the EPG. One thing that seem to be fixed is the improper guide info when on an OTA channel for an extended time. Example would be watching Ch 5 then bring up the guide. Scroll to a satellite channel. Prior to 289 I would get the wrong time block for the current channel or 1/2 hour behind the current time.

[Ron Barry]

Hmmm... lots of votes not a lot of hardware info behind them... I am rather suprised at the result since I feel it is related to channel changing.

[Jason Nipp]

No, In my normal viewing habit I use the EPG to tune channels 80% of the time.

Device: DPP44, Feed(1), Dual-2(2), Dual-1(3), Feed(4)

DNASP: 02 REV283
HARDWARE ID: LAFD-N
BOOTSTRAP: 1014
SOFTWARE: P289

[Ron Barry]

I think there is some confusion as to what this thread is about.. This is not about program information or loss of. This is about all of a sudden loosing program information on your EPG that you just had. All program slots showing "No Info". Another symptom is your OTA that just had program info showing either "No Info" or local programming instead of Guide information.

The two links at the top should give the idea of what we are seeing.

[Charles Oliva]

I have had major problems with my 811 since the upgrade to P289, I previously had P284. I've had to deal with the "No Info", "Info Not Available" and "Digital Local" issues.

If I keep the receiver always on the "Info Not Available" shows up.
If I stay on a digital local or surf the digital locals "Digital Local" show up.
If I put the receiver in standby mode the "No Info" screen issues pops up.

In all three cases, I do a reboot and returns to "normal" for awhile at least.

Also since P289, my One-4-all remote no longer works on the 811. Funny thing is that I rarely had any problems with the 811, especially with P284.

Info:
DNASP: 02 Rev283
Hardware ID: LAJD-N
Bootstrap: 1014

Legacy LNB's (119 and 110)
SW21

[Foxbat]

BTW, another symptom of the "No Info" EPG bug is to try and search for an event, say, the current program. This happened to me the other day, I was watching a NASCAR race on TNT-HD and wanted to see if there was a race on Sunday. I pressed "#" for Search, the Search screen came up with the current program "NASCAR Racing" on the search line. I pressed "Search" and the 811 came back and said it couldn't find any matching events! That's when I pressed "Guide" and saw "No Info" for everything.

Oh, yeah, I voted "I have seen it a few times. Use EPG Mostly for channel changing."

Info:
Device: DP34-500, Twin-1(1), Twin-2(2), Sgl(3) 61.5
Software: P289
DNASP: 02 Rev283
HW ID: LADD-N
Bootstrap: 1014

[Ron Barry]

Keep them coming guys.. I will try your example fox bat. Might be an easier more reproducable way of doing it.

[tonyp56]

I think there is some confusion as to what this thread is about.. This is not about program information or loss of. This is about all of a sudden loosing program information on your EPG that you just had. All program slots showing "No Info". Another symptom is your OTA that just had program info showing either "No Info" or local programming instead of Guide information.

The two links at the top should give the idea of what we are seeing.

I for one understand this very well. I just haven't had the chance to cause it to happen. I hope to get a chance in the next couple of days so that I can say that I saw it or didn't.

One Note: This sounds very familar to me, I believe that I've seen this before or something like it (pre 289). And since doing a search causes it too, I'd say it may go deeper than what it appears. Good news is that you can work around it.

[boylehome]

OK, Ron lets see if this is more of what your are requesting.

Last night, I selected the guide. The EPG data blocks were fine. When I advanced in time by pressing the right arrow key (browse), the shift caused all remaining columns and rows of EPG data to read "No Info." The Guide became non-functional at that point, but hitting the cancel button did take it out of the guide and back to a black screen which remained until the Up/Dn key was selected then the channel returned.

I could return to the guide, which had data and was fine, I could also scroll through the the favorite lists. When I did a future advance, then all EPG blocks changed to, "No Info."

When going into the guide and scrolling Up/Dn through the channels worked fine with until I advanced, then, "No Info."

Performing a power button reset did not clear the problem. A power cord reboot cleared the problem. I had been watching TNTHD when I first experienced this problem.

[Ron Barry]

Boyle... This sounds a lot more like the issue. Did you do a lot of channel surfying before you saw it?

On the good news, This issue is believed to have been identified and sqwashed in the next release.

[boylehome]

Boyle... This sounds a lot more like the issue. Did you do a lot of channel surfying before you saw it?
Ron -

Sometime earlier in the day, I had used the EPG to change to TNTHD. No channel surfing.

I have tried on many occasions days prior to this and again I've tried to get the bug to trigger after the reboot today but with no success.

John

[tonyp56]

Well add my name to the list of people that have seen this bug. I was able to reproduce the problem, so it wasn't a one time deal. What I did, I started flipping through my OTA channels, and then I would bring up the guide, I saw that a few channels showed No Info Available, then I pressed the right arrow and then my EPG locked up and I got "No Info" on all channels on the screen. Doing a check switch didn't clear it, turning my 811 off and back on didn't fix it, the only way I found to fix it was a soft reboot. (hold down the power button for 5-10 seconds and then reboot) Anyways, I was able to reproduce it after fixing it by changing channels again. (OTA channels)

[drjlo]

I have had major problems with my 811 since the upgrade to P289, I previously had P284. I've had to deal with the "No Info", "Info Not Available" and "Digital Local" issues.

If I keep the receiver always on the "Info Not Available" shows up.
If I stay on a digital local or surf the digital locals "Digital Local" show up.
If I put the receiver in standby mode the "No Info" screen issues pops up.



This is exactly the problem I'm having every day. I probably use channel up/down and EPG 50:50 for changing channels.

The one-second delay for 811 to respond to remote control and one-second delay between channel change is also growing more and more weary on me since P289.

[logray]

Ok. I would like to change my vote. I have instructed all 811 users in the household to use ONLY the EPG since I discovered the bug and Ron issued the workaround to use EPG only and we ran into the issue again. No channle surfing going on at all. Perhaps there is more than way to trigger this bug, hence more than one defect in code?

[Jason Nipp]

From my understanding it is a timing thing, not really comitted to a sequence of events but more definitively how fast a sequence occurs.

[Ron Barry]

Ok. I would like to change my vote. I have instructed all 811 users in the household to use ONLY the EPG since I discovered the bug and Ron issued the workaround to use EPG only and we ran into the issue again. No channle surfing going on at all. Perhaps there is more than way to trigger this bug, hence more than one defect in code?

The workaround I suggested not issued ;) is based on playing around with it. Like Jason stated and I agree, it definitely feels like a timing issue. Most likely the reason why I could not get it to happen using the EPG was because it is harder to go faster changing channels through the EPG. Based on the poll, seems that others are running into through the EPG and one indicated an empty search can cause it to happen.

Just because we are seeing this occur a number of different ways does not mean they are all different bugs. From the end user, they my see a number of different symptoms and think they are all different bugs. However, from the programmer's perspective it is one bug.. Possible a common routine that a number of functions call or perhaps a timing issue because a resource is not locked.

If Jason seems to feel it is two bugs, I would go along with him. As to the workaround, I still feel that you can reduce your likely hood of hitting in through EPG use. At least that is my experience.

It know becomes a waiting game and hopefully the fix will be out shortly..

[tonyp56]

One thing I'd like to add Ron, I never seen this bug (289) until I did what logray said he did. I use the EPG and I never see this, didn't see it before my test and haven't seen it since.


Logray, do you spend a lot of time on OTA channels? If you do, that might be the common issue here. I don't spend hardly any time on my OTA channels, so that might be why you are still seeing this. It's worth a thought at least.

[olgeezer]

The workaround I suggested not issued ;) is based on playing around with it. Like Jason stated and I agree, it definitely feels like a timing issue. Most likely the reason why I could not get it to happen using the EPG was because it is harder to go faster changing channels through the EPG. Based on the poll, seems that others are running into through the EPG and one indicated an empty search can cause it to happen.

Just because we are seeing this occur a number of different ways does not mean they are all different bugs. From the end user, they my see a number of different symptoms and think they are all different bugs. However, from the programmer's perspective it is one bug.. Possible a common routine that a number of functions call or perhaps a timing issue because a resource is not locked.

If Jason seems to feel it is two bugs, I would go along with him. As to the workaround, I still feel that you can reduce your likely hood of hitting in through EPG use. At least that is my experience.

It know becomes a waiting game and hopefully the fix will be out shortly..

At home and at work the only that would happen would be: At work--never turn the machine off and never try to advance one show from the current guide. At home never access the guide. At work and at home, very little EPG use in normal circumstances. I haven't voted in the poll, because none of the answers apply to either 811.

[logray]

...Logray, do you spend a lot of time on OTA channels? If you do, that might be the common issue here. I don't spend hardly any time on my OTA channels, so that might be why you are still seeing this. It's worth a thought at least.

Yeah I do spend a lot of time on OTAs. I've been using only the EPG too, but apparently it can happen even when not channel surfing.

Fortunately according to nippjas the issue has been isolated in software and there is a beta of new software... however we haven't heard anything beyond that since August 3rd (12 days ago). IIRC that info could have been 13 days ago.

Anyone here a beta tester that doesn't mind telling us if this is fixed or not?

[tonyp56]

Yeah I do spend a lot of time on OTAs. I've been using only the EPG too, but apparently it can happen even when not channel surfing.

Like I said, that might be at least part of the reason why you still see this bug. Because I usually (95%+) use the EPG and I don't spend much time in OTA (I'd say less than 5% of my viewing is on OTA channels) I'd say that is the reason why you still see it even though you are using the EPG. I've tried to change channels in the EPG fast, however, I don't see this unless I spend time in OTA.

Remember, the last wide-spread release was December, so I wouldn't be counting on a new release coming out for at least six months. That said, it could come out tomorrow, but I doubt it.

[logray]

To me, I would think this type of issue would get bumped high up on the "to-do" list for the 811 team, considering this is a bug that is not that hard to reproduce using one of the most basic features I can think of - tuning channels. Although, they may be taking into account that there is a small percentage of 811 users that have (and in your case use) OTA. Or perhaps they are working on other bug fixes they want to roll into the next release as to keep the number of new releases to a minimum. So on and so forth.

But then again you may be right, we might not see another release until 2006. I am encouraged though by Jason's post though that there is at least a beta version with this bug fixed (at the very least internally).

[tonyp56]

To me, I would think this type of issue would get bumped high up on the "to-do" list for the 811 team, considering this is a bug that is not that hard to reproduce using one of the most basic features I can think of - tuning channels. Although, they may be taking into account that there is a small percentage of 811 users that have (and in your case use) OTA. Or perhaps they are working on other bug fixes they want to roll into the next release as to keep the number of new releases to a minimum. So on and so forth.

But then again you may be right, we might not see another release until 2006. I am encouraged though by Jason's post though that there is at least a beta version with this bug fixed (at the very least internally).

I agree with you that this should be fixed, and even though I don't use OTA that often I'd say that I'd still like this fixed.

I understand why you'd be incouraged by Jason's comments, however, I've heard it before, that is why he stopped giving time lines for software releases. I wouldn't connect the dots between Jason saying they've fixed it in a beta release and that means a fix is coming soon. Be prepared for it to take a long time. That isn't Jason's fault by the way, he does more than he has too, however, in the end he can't control what Dish Network does or doesn't do. (That means I don't blame Jason, so Jason, please don't think I don't appreciate all the work you do, you don't have to do any of it, but you do and I for one appreciates every piece of information you get and share with us) Even though they may have fixed it, it might still take them months before they release the fix.

With regard too this being bumped up on the to-do-list, think about it this way. Wouldn't you have thought they would have wanted to get advertised features implemented before anything else? Dish Home, full capacity favorite list, etc... Think about how many months it took them to add those features that the owners manual, brochures, etc. said that the 811 had, if it took them that long to do that, then why wouldn't it take them a long time to fix something that they broke by a SW update? When they first started selling the 811 it should have had Dish Home, working favorite list, etc... It wasn't like it was new technology, the 301's where like that too, when I first got my 301's, they didn't have some features that you would have thought would have been automatic.

[logray]

In my experience, you must to have something stable to work with before you move forward. Genearlly speaking, people will abandon technology if it isn't easy to use. I would think doubly so with Television. Phones on the other hand... one time I was working on a nationwide phone system and we ran into an issue with the core call processing executable. It was preventing the phone switch from fully initializing the route tables/etc. People all over the place couldn't pick up the phone and dial it. Now we couldn't have just continued on coding new features unless we stopped to fix this one.

Of course, that's a pretty severe problem. I'm not sure what severity the "no info" issue or BSOD full screen EPG bugs are in the scope of what the 811 team is working on, but IMHO, if they can't keep the house clean, why add more furniture? And that's as ranty as I will get. I promise. :)

[logray]

any new news about an upcoming release? it's been 20 days since we last heard there was a new beta out there - but who is counting? :)

[Foxbat]

One week later, P330 is here, and still seeing "No Info", even though channel changing via channel up/channel down is faster. Patiently waiting...

[logray]

Warning: Please do not take this post with negative connotation. :D I am merely repeating information previously provided and providing commentary. :D

The release notes of 3.30 said "no info" would not be fixed in this release, but in a later release.

We were told 28 days ago that there was a beta release - not sure if the beta release was 3.30 and had no info fixed in it and they later removed the fix, or if there was another release they are working on that had the no info fix and 3.30 was already being worked on. The only info I have from Jason's previous posts was that no info was identified and there was a fix for it, not that it was to be released in 3.30. IIRC Jason may have even told us that 3.30 was already being worked on prior to "No Info" fix and that it was to be released in advance of the next release that will have the "No Info" fix. Perhaps we won't see a fix for some time? Who knows. Anyways, stay away from channel surfing and you will have less of a chance of running into "No Info". :)

[Jason Nipp]

The release notes of 3.30 said no info would not be fixed in this release, but the next release. We were told 28 days ago that there was a beta release - not sure if this beta had no info fixed in it - but that no info was identified and there was a fix for it.Take it for granted this type of reaction is why I stopped posting the predicted dates, etc. The release mentioned 28 days ago became P3.30. I was given the impression the fix for this issue would be in the next release.

[logray]

Sometimes posts come accross with a negative connotation. That's why smilies were invented. I forgot to use them, but will now edit some in. Please don't take my post as such. I'm meerly regurgitating information that was previously provided - not trying to put a negative twist on anything. Personally I don't really mind when the fix comes out considering I've been able to avoid "no info" for the most part now by not channel surfing. In any case - no ill intent intended to be "read" out of my earlier post. Just repeating previously provided information - and if you provided the information to us that was given to you by E*, then us "reading between the lines" was a result of them not being specific enough or providing accurate and timely information - of course we always know about the caveat that they reserve the right ot reveal or not reveal information or release any information to us at all - accurate or not. Who knows, perhaps they tested their No Info fix but found problems with it but had to delay it due to unforseen issues, but failed to communicate that to you.

We all certainly greatly appreciate the service they and you provide for us. I guess it's up to us - the user community - to come up with all the conspiracy theories and such. Sometimes it's kinda fun when we get limited, untimely, incomplete, or innacurate information - then the theories get a little bit more wild. I don't intend for this to become a slam fest or anything like that - and would even go so far as to remove my earlier post to prevent that. :)

[Jason Nipp]

Sometimes posts come accross with a negative connotation. That's why smilies were invented. I forgot to use them, but will now edit some in. Please don't take my post as such. I'm meerly regurgitating information that was previously provided - not trying to put a negative twist on anything. Personally I don't really mind when the fix comes out considering I've been able to avoid "no info" for the most part now by not channel surfing. In any case - no ill intent intended to be "read" out of my earlier post. Just repeating previously provided information - and if you provided the information to us that was given to you by E*, then us "reading between the lines" was a result of them not being specific enough or providing accurate and timely information - of course we always know about the caveat that they reserve the right ot reveal or not reveal information or release any information to us at all - accurate or not. Who knows, perhaps they tested their No Info fix but found problems with it but had to delay it due to unforseen issues, but failed to communicate that to you.

We all certainly greatly appreciate the service they and you provide for us. I guess it's up to us - the user community - to come up with all the conspiracy theories and such. Sometimes it's kinda fun when we get limited, untimely, incomplete, or innacurate information - then the theories get a little bit more wild. I don't intend for this to become a slam fest or anything like that - and would even go so far as to remove my earlier post to prevent that. :)Conspiracy theories won't be allowed to remain in this particular forum. I wish to keep the support area dedicated to helping provide good feedback that can be used to improve the product and help other users. The non-support related talk or bashing needs to stay in the general area. I don't believe E* wishes to wade through a pool of bashing or conspiracies in order to see what issues users are having.

Thanks for clarifying your previous statements. :)

[mp3truck]

I have two 811's and they both do this. I don't know if it has anything to do with it but neither are hooked to a phone line. There doesn't seem to be any pattern at all to it. It happens maybe once every few days for me.

[Foxbat]

My "Patiently waiting" was not sarcastic, I mean just that: I used to sling code for a living and I know how frustrating tracking down something you think should be working, and appears to be, until the moon goes into Taurus and a car honks its horn (i.e., random, unforeseen events), working to all expectations. They can even call it "SPAM on toast" instead of P331 for all I care.

All I know is the 811 does its job of receiving HD satellite and OTA signals and sending my Tosh a gorgeous 1080i signal, and it does a much better job than my 6000 did, IMHO. I'm just sorry that it appears that the 811 will get to be fully functional just in time for it to be surpassed by the 411 (or whatever HD MPEG-4 box comes out next.) I expect to get another 36-48 months of use out of my 811 before moving to MPEG-4, unless one of the new MPEG-4 HD channels is Universal HD or SciFi HD, and then all bets are off. ;)

[Ron Barry]

I still sling code. ;) The other side of the No Info fix is that it is possible that they wanted longer time for the fix to cook. By cook I mean have test time. It is possible that the fix might be risky and they wanted to make sure no side effects cropped up.

Having been through a number of releases, I have gotten the impression that they have multiple release trains for the 811. I could be wrong. It is possible that the "No Info" fix missed the 3.30 release or that they did not want to add the risk that this fix introduced into the 3.30 train. For the people that don't write software for a living. I usually part of a software process as one approaches a maintenance release is the evaluation of the fixes and the risk they introduce into the code base.

Hard to say why the "No Info" fix was not introduced into the 3.30 release, but the fact is it is not in this build and hopefully will be included in the next one. For the time being using the EPG guide for channel changing should minimize your exposure as Logray pointed out.

Personally I am very proud of the work the people that frequent this forum did on tracking down a reproducable method of getting this bug to show up.

[Ken H]

My 811 has recently (since 3.30) stopped acquiring local digital guide information. The program title just says 'Local Digital', with 'No Info' available.

With all previous versions (2.8*) it did not have this issue.

Is this the right thread to post in?

[NickG]

I've had my 811 for a couple of weeks now, and have similar issues. I've spoken to a Dish rep 3 times, with the last time being the most productive. My problems are:

1) When watching OTA Digital stations, the EPG will display "Local Digital"
2) the EPG will often times show "Info Not Available"
3) when I tune from a OTA digital station to a satellite station, my receiver will lockup and reboot (not always, probably depends on the state of the EPG). The whole process takes about 2-3 minutes (which obviously is very annoying)

The software in my 811 is rev330.

After speaking with the Dish rep yesterday, here's the info I was able to get:

- Dish is working on a new software version due out at the end of September. It will be rev331. This rev will address EPG issues.
- The 811 downloads the EPG every 4 hours. If the receiver is tuned constantly to an OTA station, then the EPG will not be downloaded. This could be one of the reasons for the "Info Not Available" message in the EPG.

It sounds like the 811 doesn't have access to the satellite stream when in OTA mode. I hope this is simply a software/firmware issue, and not a board layout thing. Otherwise, these problems might never go away.

Dish's current solution is for the customer to tune to a satellite station every hour. I told them that was clearly ridiculous and unacceptable. Hopefully the next rev will fix these EPG and lockup issues.

Hope this helps,
Nick

[Ron Barry]

My 811 has recently (since 3.30) stopped acquiring local digital guide information. The program title just says 'Local Digital', with 'No Info' available.

With all previous versions (2.8*) it did not have this issue.

Is this the right thread to post in?

It sounds like you mihht have hit it. If you got it, it would be accross multiple channels not just one. Your guide should stay messed up. THe problem was not fixed in 3.30 and a soft boot should correct the issue.

[Ken H]

It sounds like you mihht have hit it. If you got it, it would be accross multiple channels not just one. Your guide should stay messed up. THe problem was not fixed in 3.30 and a soft boot should correct the issue.Yes, the 'Local Digital' 'No Info' is for all 7 of my local digital channels.

I'll try the soft boot, which is holding down the power button, right?

I wonder why it was fine before 3.30?

[Ron Barry]

The No info bug is a timing related bug. You might have just gotten lucky with 2.89 or it is possible that the timing has changed with 3.30 to effect you. I assume you have only had one instance of this issue?

[Ken H]

Soft boot restored guide info for digital locals. No image for a few minutes after it came back up, but it finally appeared after switching to an analog local.

Thanks for the advice.

[logray]

...- Dish is working on a new software version due out at the end of September. It will be rev331. This rev will address EPG issues...

So this came from a rep and not directly from Dish - not that either are to be held liable for their "predictions" - but did someone tell them that it's already October !?! :lol: