TV Stretch Modes and Simultaneous Output

[daf999999]

I have read a ton of the threads here and they have been helpful if a bit over my head. I think that the followiing statements are true but I would like confirmation that I am understanding this correctly.
I anticipate a setup that has the HR10-250 component outputs and digital audio running through my a/v processor to the component inputs on my TV (Toshiba 57HX82), the HR10-250 composite A/V outputs running directly to my TV on video 1 and the HR10-250 s-video output running directly to my TV on video 2

1. 480i output from composite or S-Video can be stretched by my TV modes of stretching rather than using the HR10-250 stretch.
I really like the Theater Wide 1 for SD TV and hear that the HR10-250 stretch is not nearly as good.

2. All output through component jacks can only be stretched using HR10-250

3. The composite and S-video outputs and the component outputs will work simultaneously -- meaning that I can switch inputs on my TV and see the same screen on three inputs. The input for component will display in HD or SD depending on signal, the input for composite (video 1) will display in SD and the input for s-video (video 2) will display in HD or SD depending on signal.

4. I will be able to display SD in pci-in-pic through video 1 (composite) and video 2(s-video)


If I have both composite and s-video running to tv - how does audio get to tv for s-video. Do both s-video and composite use the composite audio output? Does this mean I can use s-video or composite video, but not both?

Thanks for all your help on these questions.

[greywolf]

Toshiba's TW1 does a pretty good job for non critical viewing. The HR10-250 doesn't have a non linear stretch mode. Everything gets fat across the screen. The only other SD option is sidebars.

S-video does not support HD. If you set your output to 480i, you will get 480i on composite, S-video and component outputs. If you use any other output resolution, that resolution will be output through component but composite and S-video will be shut off. The HR10-250 cannot simultaneously output more than one resolution at a time.

Pic in pic will work as you stated but why put the same image in 2 places. You would need another tuner, such as the TV's NTSC tuner, to get differing images.

There is no such thing as composite, S-video or component audio. These are all video only connections. There are analog and digital audio outs, both of which are always on if Dolby Digital is enabled in the menu. No DD and only the analog audio works. In either case, analog audio outs (red/white) always work regardless of the video settings. The HR10-250 outputs both S-video and composite simultaneously in 480i out mode but the TV can only handle one or the other per tuner. You've taken care of that by connecting them to two different video inputs, 1 and 2.

[daf999999]

Thanks so much for quick and informative reply. One critical question -- if I am passing the SD through the composite can I use the TW1 to completly avoid both the HR10-250 stretch mode AND avoid the sidebars. In other words can I get the exact same picture that I get now using my Directivo (non-hd) box?

Thanks

[Vin]

One critical question -- if I am passing the SD through the composite can I use the TW1 to completly avoid both the HR10-250 stretch mode AND avoid the sidebars. In other words can I get the exact same picture that I get now using my Directivo (non-hd) box?

Thanks
Yes, your TV will treat it as any other 480i source and TW1 can be used. BTW, I also have a Toshiba HDTV and would agree that TW1 does an excellent job of stretching. As a matter of fact, my set, the 65H84, allows stretching of all signals so I can also use TW1 for upconverted (pillar boxed) SD programming on the HD channels......great feature! :)

Vin

[daf999999]

Thanks Vin. I guess I'll find out when I get the box, but do you know that my TV does not have the advanced features of yours that permit using TW1 on pillarboxed SD programming. It would be great to not have to toggle between 480i and 1080!! Any way to check before I get the box?

[greywolf]

I guess I'll find out when I get the box, but do you know that my TV does not have the advanced features of yours that permit using TW1 on pillarboxed SD programming. It would be great to not have to toggle between 480i and 1080!! All Toshiba models allow TW1 on SD signals. Only some allow manipulation of HD signals. Just set the TiVo to full to eliminate the sidebars, toggle the joystick up on the TiVo remote to output 480i and set the TV to TW1. This even works on the component input so you don't have to change inputs on the TV from HD unless you prefer the picture from the S-video or composite inputs.

[Vin]

Thanks Vin. I guess I'll find out when I get the box, but do you know that my TV does not have the advanced features of yours that permit using TW1 on pillarboxed SD programming. It would be great to not have to toggle between 480i and 1080!! Any way to check before I get the box?
Actually, you're in luck, the Toshiba 82 series, like the 84 series, is capable of stretching 1080i.....the 83 series is not.

Vin

[greywolf]

I believe the 42H83 may be an exception. IIRC, it was unchanged from the 42H82.

[Vin]

I believe the 42H83 may be an exception. IIRC, it was unchanged from the 42H82.
Wouldn't surprise me if this was the case.....they haven't exactly been consistent with this feature.

Vin

[chrisj]

Greywolf, I would like to call you with some questions on a toshiba, hr10-250 box. I live in janesville, wi could you e-mail me with your number please?

[greywolf]

Please ask the question here. That way others can participate in the process. I don't like working with people over the phone and would need a good reason to do so.

[chrisj]

I have this tv and a hr10-250. I have my output on the dvr set to output 1080i. The problem is when I go to a ota hd channel which is not showing hd(news, programs not setup with hd) their are sidebars that are black. Do I have to change output to 480i on dvr everytime this happens to get the picture to stretch or is there another way? I do have my toshiba set on tw1 which normally stretches it but it does not in this case. The sd channels on directv are stretched though. No sidebars at all. Comments and help please.

[greywolf]

The sidebars are put in by the station as part of the upconversion to meet the 16:9 requirement of an HD output. The D* SD channels and OTA SD channels are 4:3 480i and your HD Tivo is set to full so it stretches the picture to fit. If you set it to panel, the HR10-250 will add sidebars.

If you set the HR10-250 to output 1080i, the TV is locked into natural mode. You have to output 480i the allow the TV to control the aspect ratio. That will allow TW1 to work on the 4:3 SD programming. The upconverted to HD programming is another matter. The sidebars are a part of the picture. The only way to get rid of the sidebars is to crop them using TW2 which will also crop the top and bottom of the picture.

As long as 2 different aspect ratios are in use, there will be bars or stretching. My advice is to accept the bars as part of the transition process and watch OTA upconverts with the sidebars intact.

[chrisj]

But won't you eventually have a burn in issue if you have sidebars?

[greywolf]

Burn in is caused by high contrast still images. What will cause burn in is leaving your TV at its stock settings and watching analog 4:3 with the Toshiba's gray sidebars. They are too bright.

For enhanced viewing pleasure and burn in proofing, Pick up a Digital Video Essentials or AVIA calibration DVD and adjust you set off of the too contrasty picture that is only good for calling attention to itself in a well lit store display. Better stores have the sets displayed in darkened areas. Movie theatres are dark for a reason.

A ball park figure set to start with is contrast 35, brightness 50 and sharpness 40. Sharpness is really a misnomer because above a neutral setting it adds video noise to a picture to separate objects. Many sets ought to have 0 for a sharpness figure but the Toshiba starts getting softer below about 40.

Whatever you do, don't use the sports setting which is also known as torch mode. Get your contrast down and black sidebars or darker gray sidebars that broadcasters add to OTA programming will never cause a problem.