Directv $10 Change Of Service Fee.

[SPECIES11703]

I was on DirecTV.com to do a change of service. Now these idiots want to charge me a change of service fee! Has anyone else got this message:

DIRECTV premium programming services are generally offered on a monthly basis. If you downgrade your premium programming options within thirty (30) days of adding a new service to your account, you may be subject to a $10.00 fee. If you wish to disconnect the selected service(s), please contact DIRECTV Customer Service at 1-800-531-5000.

Does anyone know when this went into effect?

[greywolf]

I believe it was yesterday according to other reports elsewhere. It's to keep people from, for example, signing up for a premium movie channel for one day each time they want to see a movie in order to pay less than the full month charge. They were business idiots for allowing the practice before, not for disallowing it now.

[CCarncross]

They are just correcting an oversight so people cant abuse the packages...makes good sense to me. I totally agree with greywolf on this one. SHould have never been allowable in teh 1st place...

[AnimeFan]

Well if they are going to do this they are losing a little Money from me because I use to subscribe every Friday late night for the Anime on Encore Action now I won't bother anymore only was 40 cents which is about 1.60 or so a month there small loss. Oh well

[borg5575]

I don't see why they can't allow it. If you sign up for a package one day and then cancel it the next, you have still paid on a pro rated basis. What's the harm in that?

[DS0816]

:D Did DirecTV's sophistical computer networking system go into overdrive?

[Mike Richardson]

Well if they are going to do this they are losing a little Money from me because I use to subscribe every Friday late night for the Anime on Encore Action now I won't bother anymore only was 40 cents which is about 1.60 or so a month there small loss. Oh well

Doesn't DISH's AT180 have Encore Action for free :D

[ocnier]

Doesn't DISH's AT180 have Encore Action for free :D

Doesn't dish still miss all the network HD besides CBS unlike D* and still lack a dvr tuner with 2 OTA capability (an lapse that is long overdue to be added). :D

[durl]

I agree that it makes good business sense to prohibit frequent changes. It helps predict future revenue and can help keep overall prices low.

[Newshawk]

I believe it was yesterday according to other reports elsewhere. It's to keep people from, for example, signing up for a premium movie channel for one day each time they want to see a movie in order to pay less than the full month charge. They were business idiots for allowing the practice before, not for disallowing it now.

I wouldn't say they were business idiots, greywolf. The morphing of the premium channels into virtual pay per day channels was an unintended consequence of allowing customers to change services via the internet. I imagine the people at D* didn't imagine that people would do that. If anything, they were just too trusting of their fellow man.

[Newshawk]

I don't see why they can't allow it. If you sign up for a package one day and then cancel it the next, you have still paid on a pro rated basis. What's the harm in that?
OK, consider this. You own a car dealership. I purchase a car from you (let's say a Lincoln Continental), and one day later I return it, saying I only needed it for that one day. Do you think that'd fly? Or, I purchase an Armani suit on Thursday and return it Saturday after wearing it to a big event. Would you not be justifiably upset at me?

Just remember... just because something is possible, does not mean that it is the right thing to do.

[JohnH]

Make it $7 for a 4 hour time block or 12-10-8-7 a month. :D

[Lord Vader]

Word has it that they will now pursue people who do this and sue them in federal court. God knows they don't have enough lawsuits working already anyway. :rolleyes:

[borg5575]

OK, consider this. You own a car dealership. I purchase a car from you (let's say a Lincoln Continental), and one day later I return it, saying I only needed it for that one day. Do you think that'd fly? Or, I purchase an Armani suit on Thursday and return it Saturday after wearing it to a big event. Would you not be justifiably upset at me?

Just remember... just because something is possible, does not mean that it is the right thing to do.
I don't necessarily think that you gave a valid analogy. If I buy a new car then return it the next day it is now a used car. It won't ever again be a new car again and the minute I drive it off the lot it loses a lot of value. (There may be rare exceptions to this such as the fact that used hybrid cars can sell for more than new ones in the showroom do but generally my analysis is correct.)

But if I subscribe to a premium package and then change my mind and remove it the next day I am not returning anything that has lost some of it's original value. It is not a commodity that will have to be resold. They charge $12 monthly for a premium package which comes out to 40¢ per day. So if I cancel after one day got their 40¢. If I keep the package for 30 days they still get their 40¢ per day. I still don't see a difference.

[Kheldar]

But if I subscribe to a premium package and then change my mind and remove it the next day I am not returning anything that has lost some of it's original value. It is not a commodity that will have to be resold. They charge $12 monthly for a premium package which comes out to 40¢ per day. So if I cancel after one day got their 40¢. If I keep the package for 30 days they still get their 40¢ per day. I still don't see a difference.

The difference, at least according to official channels, is that every time someone signs up for a premium service, D*'s contract with the provider dictates that D* pays the provider for the full 30 days. If the customer cancels the service after 1 day, D* still pays the provider for 30 days. This is, of course, not profitable, so the Premium Service Disconnect Fee is meant to discourage this activity.

[borg5575]

The difference, at least according to official channels, is that every time someone signs up for a premium service, D*'s contract with the provider dictates that D* pays the provider for the full 30 days.
Do you have a link that documents that? What official channels are you referring to? I am not doubting your honesty, but I wonder if that just might be an unfounded rumor. If that were the case they would have never allowed us to change packages online in the first place IMO. And as it stands now, you can still change from one package to another without penalty. It's only if you downgrade to fewer premium packages that you are charged the ten bucks. For instance, I can change from the Showtime package to the HBO package without incurring the fee.

Yet HBO and Showtime are entirely different companies. So you are saying that if I subscribe to HBO and then change it to Showtime the next day D* has to pay each of those two providers for one month? Yet under that scenario I don't have to pay a penalty fee. If that were really the case they would charge the penalty fee as well for changing from one premium package to another in the middle of the month, but they don't do that now.

[Kheldar]

Do you have a link that documents that? What official channels are you referring to? I am not doubting your honesty, but I wonder if that just might be an unfounded rumor. If that were the case they would have never allowed us to change packages online in the first place IMO. And as it stands now, you can still change from one package to another without penalty. It's only if you downgrade to fewer premium packages that you are charged the ten bucks. For instance, I can change from the Showtime package to the HBO package without incurring the fee.

Yet HBO and Showtime are entirely different companies. So you are saying that if I subscribe to HBO and then change it to Showtime the next day D* has to pay each of those two providers for one month? Yet under that scenario I don't have to pay a penalty fee. If that were really the case they would charge the penalty fee as well for changing from one premium package to another in the middle of the month, but they don't do that now.

I don't have a link. The "official channel" is a trainer that taught everyone about the new fee. You are right, the swapping scenario doesn't make sense with the explanation I received. (Although, if you do swap from one service to another, the 30-day window starts over on the new service.)

I just thought I would put out the official explanation for the fee. I cannot confirm if that is the real reason, but that is what all the employees are being told.




And, for anyone who will complain that this fee isn't in the customer agreement (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/CustomerAgreement.dsp), check out section 2(c):

In order to control the basic charges, which apply to all customers, we charge fees that arise in specific circumstances only to those customers responsible for them. This list is not exclusive, and DIRECTV reserves the right to modify these fees or charge additional fees.

[Mike Richardson]

Doesn't dish still miss all the network HD besides CBS unlike D* and still lack a dvr tuner with 2 OTA capability (an lapse that is long overdue to be added). :D

Doesn't dish have Voom?

I don't want to get into a dish vs direct pissing contest here.

[JohnH]

Also, TNTHD. E* has charged a sidegrade/downgrade of $5($10 for adult programming) for years.

While they have never stated this, the pricing structure of the premiums seems to be based on a 1 month minimum with prorating beyond that. It seems D* is finally going after the subs who use the premiums as a cheap PPV.

[Geronimo]

OK, consider this. You own a car dealership. I purchase a car from you (let's say a Lincoln Continental), and one day later I return it, saying I only needed it for that one day. Do you think that'd fly? Or, I purchase an Armani suit on Thursday and return it Saturday after wearing it to a big event. Would you not be justifiably upset at me?

Just remember... just because something is possible, does not mean that it is the right thing to do.


Most states do allow you to return a car within some specified time period. In the case of a suit I would suspect that it would be allowed but taht you would bbe out the cost of alterations. That would be a matter of store policy.

But I agree that doing ANY of these thing swith the intent to get free goods or services is not right.

[sobal]

It's now listed on DIRECTV's website:

DIRECTV premium programming services are generally offered on a monthly basis. If you downgrade your premium programming options within thirty (30) days of adding a new service to your account, you may be subject to a $10.00 fee.

[Jacob S]

Perhaps now Dish Network will now start charging $10 instead of $5 for a downgrade fee since DirecTv charges $10 now. If they are required to pay their provider for one month of programming then why dont they just require at one month's of programming to be charged when the channel/package is ordered.

[vurbano]

They are just correcting an oversight so people cant abuse the packages...makes good sense to me. I totally agree with greywolf on this one. SHould have never been allowable in teh 1st place...

I rarely defend D* but this time I dont see what the beef is. You sign up for something and have to stick it out for 30 days. Big deal

[CCarncross]

Thats the way I see it also vurbano....People that change programming like they change their underwear probably cause more headaches then their revenue stream overcomes...

:grin:

[Kheldar]

Thats the way I see it also vurbano....People that change programming like they change their underwear probably cause more headaches then their revenue stream overcomes...

:grin:

Then again, if they weren't full of crap, they wouldn't get changed on a regular basis.
The channels, I mean. :lol:

[Jacob S]

Perhaps they should allow everyone an x number of change of service times in an x amount of time.

[CCarncross]

They do, based on the service charge its about 1 change per month since most packages are close to $10/month give or take a few dollars....besides the big sports packages(NFLST, etc.) are there any packages that arent in teh $10-$15/month range?

[bullitt]

Well if they are going to do this they are losing a little Money from me because I use to subscribe every Friday late night for the Anime on Encore Action now I won't bother anymore only was 40 cents which is about 1.60 or so a month there small loss. Oh well

Yeah, they must really be missing all that revenue you represented to them. :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, it's customer abuse like you've been perpetrating that makes them change the rules for all of us. :nono2:

[cboylan3]

Unfortunately, it's customer abuse like you've been perpetrating that makes them change the rules for all of us. :nono2:


:rolleyes:

what about the abuses perpetrated by the company that cost the tax payers money? I guess thats ok?

[Kheldar]

:rolleyes:

what about the abuses perpetrated by the company that cost the tax payers money? I guess thats ok?

What abuses are those? Provide some examples and proof before making such crazy accusations.

Both satellite companies are actively fighting illegal state taxes: http://www.stopsatellitetax.com/

[Newshawk]

:rolleyes:

what about the abuses perpetrated by the company that cost the tax payers money? I guess thats ok?

OK, what does being a tax payer have to do with anything in this context? Theres are private companies, not government agencies. :nono2:

[cboylan3]

What abuses are those? Provide some examples and proof before making such crazy accusations.

Both satellite companies are actively fighting illegal state taxes: http://www.stopsatellitetax.com/

thanks for the link....I got to read more about the Sat tax stuff 'cuase in the past year I've been getting taxed when I never did before.

Anyway, I was addressing bullitt's statement that the customer was intentionally abusing the system which affect the company. This usually gets people a little rilled up. My question was just that same company intentionally abuses a system that effects the tax payers, noone seems to mind.

It cost $150 to file a lawsuit. During D* 1st year of litigation campaign, they would file 1 lawsuit but would add upto 25 defendants (even though the defendants cases were not related). This went on for about a year before defendants started filing motions to the court that each had to be a different case with a filing fee applied to each. The courts agreed and ruled that D* had to refile against each defendant seperately with the appropriate filing fee. Not only did D* fight these ruling, they continued to file lawsuits with multiple unrelated defendants. Forcing defendants to spend money on motions that should not have had to be made. If the defendants were not aware that D* had to file seperately, no motion was filed and D* was able to get away with paying only $150. (thus causing the court system to handle multiple cases while only collecting fees for one). This practice finally stopped about a year later (sometime during 2nd year of litigation) when courts started recommending flat out dismissal instead of refiling seperately.

So, we have a customer that has not done anything illegal but taking advantage of loop holes and not properly playing by the rules as expected, and people get in an uproar. Then we have a company that hasn't done anything illegal but taking advantage of loop holes and not properly playing by the rules as expected, and its a non issue :confused:

[DFDureiko]

Does anyone know if this is a calender month or billing month? ie, I just signed up for HBO today, online, our billing date is: the 15th. so, if I wish to avoid the fee, when do I cancel?
The CSR was unclear on this, and she also said that I may or may not be charged the fee, and could give no expenantion why that was. Clear as mud.
Dan

[serenstarlight]

Does anyone know if this is a calender month or billing month? ie, I just signed up for HBO today, online, our billing date is: the 15th. so, if I wish to avoid the fee, when do I cancel?
The CSR was unclear on this, and she also said that I may or may not be charged the fee, and could give no expenantion why that was. Clear as mud.
Dan

It's a month starting on the day you started the package so if it was the 30th of dec you have to keep it until the 30 of Jan.

[Upstream]

DFD -- just to be sure, you may want to keep the service 31 or 32 days, pay the prorated additional day or two, and make sure you avoid the $10 early cancellation fee.

[sheepishlion]

If you cancel on the web, it will tell you that you are still in the 30 days. I changed on the 29th of last month, and kept trying to remove the package this whole week. I was finally able to change it on the 28th, and the website didn't mention anything about a $10 fee.

[AnonomissX]

IIRC, a premium channel service has to be kept for 30 days to avoid a fee for a WHILE now. But what I am now perceiving, correct me if I'm wrong, is if you add any premium service, and cancel ANY premium service within that 30 days, you will get a fee?

For example: You've had HBO for 6 months. You sign up for Starz to see if you will like it better on the 1st of the month. By the 15th, you decide that you like Starz better, and you cancel HBO. Are they going to charge you the 10.00 now?

Hmm...any current reps got the scoop, I'm out of the loop nowadays.

[Kheldar]

IIRC, a premium channel service has to be kept for 30 days to avoid a fee for a WHILE now. But what I am now perceiving, correct me if I'm wrong, is if you add any premium service, and cancel ANY premium service within that 30 days, you will get a fee?

For example: You've had HBO for 6 months. You sign up for Starz to see if you will like it better on the 1st of the month. By the 15th, you decide that you like Starz better, and you cancel HBO. Are they going to charge you the 10.00 now?

Hmm...any current reps got the scoop, I'm out of the loop nowadays.

From my experience, you are correct. In your example of HBO and Starz, you are correct; the $10 fee would apply. The system doesn't care which premium packages you keep; you just have to keep at least the same number of premium packages.

In your example, you started with 1 premium package (HBO). You added Starz, for a total of 2 premium packages. Then you removed 1 (and it doesn't matter which one), so the fee applies.

If, however, in your example, instead of just dropping HBO, you added Showtime at the same time, the fee would not be charged, because you would be staying with the same number of premiums.


So, to boil it down, if you change programming, and:
* Stay with the same number of premiums, no fee applies
* End up with more premiums, no fee applies
* End up with fewer premiums, but it has been 30 days or more since you increased your premiums, no fee applies
* End up with fewer premiums, but it has been less than 30 days since you increased your premiums, a $10 fee applies

The above applies to HBO, Starz, Showtime, Cinemax and the Sports Pack.

Other premium packages are also subject to the fee: Playboy, BabyFirst, and another one I don't remember. For these channels, the $10 fee applies individually if the channels are removed within 30 days. For example, in the odd case that you drop Playboy within 30 days but add BabyFirst (going from making babies to entertaining them:grin: ), the fee still applies.

[jimbo09]

It's a month starting on the day you started the package so if it was the 30th of dec you have to keep it until the 30 of Jan.

I just did this, so here's my story:

I just finished the $69/4 months NFL ST deal, and I had TC Premier. So at the beginning of December (the 5th or so), I went down to HBO and Starz! Last week I just decided to drop it all. The website had the 30 days thing on it, so I called D*, and they said they would drop the fee. So if you sincerely want to change you premiums within the 30 days just call, and I think they will drop the fee.

[Kheldar]

I just did this, so here's my story:

I just finished the $69/4 months NFL ST deal, and I had TC Premier. So at the beginning of December (the 5th or so), I went down to HBO and Starz! Last week I just decided to drop it all. The website had the 30 days thing on it, so I called D*, and they said they would drop the fee. So if you sincerely want to change you premiums within the 30 days just call, and I think they will drop the fee.


In that situation the fee should not have been charged anyway. If it was charged, it was an error. D* doesn't charge you to change your programming if you roll off the end of a promo like that.

[jimbo09]

In that situation the fee should not have been charged anyway. If it was charged, it was an error. D* doesn't charge you to change your programming if you roll off the end of a promo like that.

Yeah, just some error with the website then . But, I think that they would waive the fee anyway. Obviously, I have more faith in customer service than some.:)

[JLucPicard]

Kheldar (won't quote the whole post),

Do you know this for a fact (not asked in a confrontational way, just a "Really???" kind of way)?

So if I've been an HBO subscriber thinking of switching to Starz, and I sign up for Starz on Thursday (maybe something showing that weekend I'd like to catch) and the final episode of the Sopranos is airing that Sunday (which I obviously would also want to see) and I cancel HBO on Monday (keeping Starz), I am going to have to pay a $10 fee for cancelling HBO?????

There's is really something just not right there. Personally, I would be calling D* and getting it done through them, making sure I don't get charged for it.

Is this a web site limitation thing, or is that really their policy? Like I said, something just not right with that scenario.

[Kheldar]

Kheldar (won't quote the whole post),

Do you know this for a fact (not asked in a confrontational way, just a "Really???" kind of way)?

So if I've been an HBO subscriber thinking of switching to Starz, and I sign up for Starz on Thursday (maybe something showing that weekend I'd like to catch) and the final episode of the Sopranos is airing that Sunday (which I obviously would also want to see) and I cancel HBO on Monday (keeping Starz), I am going to have to pay a $10 fee for cancelling HBO?????


D*'s Premium Package page (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/secondaryIndex.jsp?assetId=900020):DIRECTV premium programming services are generally offered on a monthly basis. If you downgrade your premium programming options within thirty (30) days of adding a new service to your account, you may be subject to a $10.00 fee.
Notice that the above paragraph doesn't say that the fee only applies if you downgrade the same programming package.

There's is really something just not right there. Personally, I would be calling D* and getting it done through them, making sure I don't get charged for it.

Is this a web site limitation thing, or is that really their policy? Like I said, something just not right with that scenario.

The fee is automatically applied 24-48 hours after the downgrade occurs. It is not a website limitation, and occurs automatically; the agent on the phone can not prevent it.

[marksman]

I don't have a problem with this as the increment of product being sold is 1 month. They don't sell packages smaller than that, so people who are just doing like the original poster and buying one channel for one night a week, well that is not an actual product offering they have. They offer the channel on a monthly basis, so you can either buy it on a monthly basis or you can pay the extra charge, which works out for them.

If I want to buy a quarter gallon of gas, I can because the gas station sells gas in increments that allow me to do that. If I want to buy half a candy bar, I can't. I got to buy the whole candy bar, and eat half of it. I can't buy it, eat half of it, and then return half of it because I didn't want the other half.

If they wanted to sell channels by the minute, hour or day, I am sure they would do it. Clearly they don't want to do that, at least at this time. So while someone may desire them to offer their channels in smaller time increments, they don't.

[Kheldar]

Great analogy. Thank you.

[Drew2k]

D*'s Premium Package page (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/secondaryIndex.jsp?assetId=900020):
DIRECTV premium programming services are generally offered on a monthly basis. If you downgrade your premium programming options within thirty (30) days of adding a new service to your account, you may be subject to a $10.00 fee.Notice that the above paragraph doesn't say that the fee only applies if you downgrade the same programming package.It also doesn't say that you would only be charged within 30 days after adding a new premium programming package...

It says you can be charged for downgrading within 30 days of adding a new service, but so far in this thread all that has been discussed is cancelling a premium programming option within 30 days of adding another premium option, for example, cancelling HBO within 30 days of adding Starz.

The paragraph, though, leaves it open to interpretation because it just says "a new service", which could be anything you can add to your account. For example: Let's say I've had HBO for three years and two days ago I sign up for the protection plan, or the HD package - either one is a new service. Today I cancel HBO, so depending on who interprets the paragraph, I could be hit with a $10 fee, because it's been less than 30 days since I added that new service.

Hopefully there's something else that clarifies "new service" as only being "other premoum programming options".

[Kheldar]

Reread the full paragraph:
DIRECTV premium programming services are generally offered on a monthly basis. If you downgrade your premium programming options within thirty (30) days of adding a new service to your account, you may be subject to a $10.00 fee.

The paragraph is clearly speaking only of the premium programming services. This entire page is dedicated to only the premium packages.

However, the way the agreement (http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/global/contentPage.jsp?assetId=P400042) is written, section 2(c)(5) :(5) Change of Service Fee: If you change your Service package to a lower-priced package, we may charge you a fee the lesser of (i) up to $10.00; or (ii) the maximum amount permitted by applicable law.
The Customer Agreement gives D* the right to do what you are suggesting, but I know for a fact that D* does not currently charge that fee (hence the word "may" in the above paragraph). The only time the fee is currently charged is the situation I posted above.

[Terry K]

And some states may require a 0.00 fee. For example, the cable company here charges 1.99 to drop services (which is in direct disagreement with their franchise agreement)

[Barmat]

Just another way to prevent alacarte programing. The cable co's and sat providers are terrified of giving their subs the power to actually choose their own programming.

[serenstarlight]

Just another way to prevent alacarte programing. The cable co's and sat providers are terrified of giving their subs the power to actually choose their own programming.

That's just assinine. Why would DTV fear customer's ability to pick and choose what they want? Do you honestly believe they're terrified about making customer's happy?
The fact of the matter is, if they allowed customer to pay per minute/hour/day/channel, it would cause more problems than necessary. Can you imagine what a bill would look like if customers were able to pick and choose their package. The bills are already difficult for customers to understand.

[Barmat]

Yes I honestly beleive the the providers are terrified of alacarte. They have battled the FCC at every mention of it. The providers realize they would lose millions if they changed to alacarte. How many would pay for the shopping/religious channels? Not many I think. You say the bills would be to complex. Not for me and I'm sure not for millions of tech savy users. The only people that would lose out are the crap channels nobody wants.

[serenstarlight]

All I can say is... in a perfect world.

[Greg Bimson]

The only people that would lose out are the crap channels nobody wants.Ahh...

So, based upon ratings (which is the only measure of which channel is being watched at what time), it wouldn't be long for every single pay TV channel to be called a "crap channel", and removed.

First that would go away are the shopping channels, as no one would pay for them. Those channels have subsidized the packages, because the providers pay the distributors for carriage of these channels. Therefore, the pricing on individual channels will increase...

And when the amount of homes available decrease by over 50 percent, the subscriber rates will double, and this will turn out to be a "downward spiral" reminiscent of the Great Depression, economically speaking.

So how long is it before Sci Fi, Discovery, DIY and Fox News go out of business, or are relegated to a fraction of their former selves?

[Barmat]

Wrong. Wouldn't this just force the channels to raise their level of quality? If all you showed was programing nobody cared about you would lose subscribers. That's one of the reasons I subscribed to D* in the first place. D* offered a programing package at a price I was willing to pay. Wouldn't these same market forces cause programing changes if we switched to alacarte?

Something has to be changed if the major providers are going to compete w/ the explosion in available cheaper content. You and I might not be hooked on downloading our shows from bittorrent but I know a bunch of 12yr olds that are. In 10yrs when these 12yr olds become that prime demographic they won't even need or care about cabel/satellite TV. They will have become comfortable paying 30$ a month for a internet conection that provides all the content they want for free.

plese don't tell me that some kind of anti copy technology will prevent this because it hasn't and won't. The latest I heared was the copy protection for HD-DVD had just been cracked.

[bluedogok]

I think ala carte programming would actually raise rates because they would want to charge much more per channel for the popular ones. The "specialty" channels would go away because the people who do like them will not want to pay the actual costs to carry them. So in the end you will have a fraction of the channels and end up paying about the same....how is that progress?

You can already download some shows for free, but if it becomes a viable means of distribution you know they will start charging for it. They are going to make their money, somehow, some way.