DishNetwork vs. Adelphia Cable - going backward or forward?

[Nick]

Don't shoot me, but after over five years with E*, I find myself taking a serious (not Sirius) look at cable again. Times have changed and I've noticed that my local Adelphia cable franchise has moved forward with system upgrades and improvements such that the PQ is excellent and the Adelphia channel lineup exceeds that of DishNetwork.

I currently sub to Dish's AEP+Locals +distant nets+HD+the Voom 10. As far as HD goes, I have the 17 available Dish HD channels including HBO-HD and SHO-HD. Problem is, being too distant for OTA from JAX or SAV, I do not have any networks in HD. I also currently sub to analog cable for rain-fade backup, local TWC weather reports, news and to provide split-screen and PiP viewing options when two or more shows of interest happen to coincide, particularly with sporting events.

I have compared Adelphia's rate card with what I am currently paying Dish, and have closely examined Adelphia's full digital channel lineup, comparing it with Dish's AEP, including HD, and have found that I can get considerably more with cable, and accounting for what I already pay Adelphia for high-speed (12 mb/s) internet access, I can get more movie channels and relevant HD channels and I would actually save about $30-$40 a month by going over to the dark side.

By switching to cable, I would gain:

28 more SD movie channels
3 new HD movie channels (Starz-HD, 2 InDemand-HD
3 new HD network channels (ABC-HD, NBC-HD, FOX-HD, with CBS-HD coming soon)
1 new HD ESPN(2)
Fuse, Oxygen,

By leaving Dish, I would lose:

10 Voom HD channels, TNT-HD
ATL SD locals
Distant nets (NY, LA)
Charlie Chats and a handful of other SD and PI channels I seldom/never watch.

In the three years I have lived on the Georgia coast, and as far as I know, Adelphia's cable service has not been out or even been briefly interrupted. With DBS, it seems like I have had more than my share of rain fade which is one of two major reasons why I also subbed to cable in the first place.

At this point, I haven't made a final decision, but I'd like to have benefit of your thoughts, particularly those of you who have passed back through the cable stargate.

[juan ellitinez]

be careful Adelphia went bankrupt and sold out to time warner and comcast!! So rates and service are probably in a state of flux till the new operator takes over!!!

[Geronimo]

Cable systems vary widely. I too subbed to DBS at least in part to escape outages, My cable suystems (Media general at the time) ws very unrealiable and outages lasted quite awhile. Add to that the high cost and the incredibly user unfriendly system architecture and it was a no brainer to switch.

Now Cox has taken over the system. Reception on anlog channels is still inferior but tehre are a lot of digital options and the pricing structure makes it appealing to sub to TV over cable.

But as Juan points out the one thing you know here is that your system will change hands soon. I would look at the services and rates then. I have opted to stay with DBS but I could definitely see myself going back if and when I go HD.

[Rick_R]

If you are getting a lot of rain fade try reaiming your dish. By playing around longer than a installer will be willing to do you can improve your reception a lot.

When my original installer left (in Jul 2000) he said 90% is good and left. Well it was 90% on the best transponders and 50% on the worst. During heavy rain it would go to 60% and 0% respectively. I tweeked it my self (in Sep 2004) and now I get 130% on the best transponders and 85% on the worst. During heavy rain it goes to 100% and 55% respectively. During the 130 year record rainfall in L.A. last year I lost signal due to rain fade only 20 minutes.

Rick R

[finniganps]

Nick,

Assuming that you can switch to cable w/o a penalty from Dish, why don't you try cable and keep Dish for a month (but drop all but local programming for that month to reduce costs) in case you decide to go back I think your only charge on Dish would be the $5 downgrade fee. If you like cable better, you're set, if you don't you can switch back at minimal cost.

I only get the top 60 channels. In my area, switching to cable would mean that at least 1/2 my channels would be analog and the quality is far inferior to my current signal from Dish. It also costs significantly more (monthly) if I want two DVR's on cable (similar to what I have with Dish).

[Ghostwriter]

Nick I too have somewhat lost my patience with Dish. I too looked at my local cable provider I will be paying a close to 2 dollars more than I am paying now, but I will have On-Demand which is an awesome feature. I will be downgrading the dish network to vacation mode to see if I am happy with the quality of the cable provider.

I am looking to switch simply because Dish offers no type of upgrade/reduced price for a HD DVR to current customers, so cable will be providing me with that at no charge compared to $700 that dish wants for a 942.

Just my $.02

[Hound]

I have both cable and Dish. I see myself keeping both services. With Dish I have AEP, Phila
locals, HD, Voom, CBS HD, MLB EI, NHL Center Ice and NBA League Pass. I also get Phila OTA, CBS, UPN, and one PBS station very strong signals no rain fade. Phila OTA NBC, ABC, WB, FOX, mainstream PBS, PAX and Telemundo all experience rain fade. All the OTA's have HD except PAX and Telemundo.

With cable I get expanded basic, HD and HD premium. Costs me $67 a month, but with $5
credit for modem, net cost is $62 a month. Cable gives me rain fade backup but also the
following HD channels, NY FOX HD, NY ABC HD, NY CBS HD, NY NBC HD, NY PBS HD,
Discovery HD, HDnet, HD Movies, TNT HD, Universal HD, INHD, INHD2, YES HD, ESPN HD,
Wealth HD and NFL HD. Also available are HBO HD, SHO HD, TMC HD, Starz HD and Cinemax
HD, but I do not subscribe to them. Get HBO and SHO HD with Dish. I also get NY stations
9 (WB and Yankees baseball) and 11 (UPN Mets baseball). No blackouts on baseball games.

My reasons for keeping both services are probably different from yours. My cable does not
have NBA League pass or NHL Center Ice. Even though I am in Philadelphia DMA, my cable
operator treats us as a NY DMA for sports blackouts because 95 percent of its subscribers
are in NY DMA (there is a major league baseball exception for this). So the two services
gives me maximum sports coverage for all New York and Philadelphia professional sports, except Phillies baseball which is on Comcast Sportsnet Philadelphia.

A big advantage of cable is the NY HD stations Fox, ABC, CBS and NBC. I would like to have
Cinemax, TMC and Starz HD as well, but would not pay extra for it. I assume Dish is
going to eventually get these stations. I also assume Dish is going to eventually get HD
locals. There are different professional football games on CBS HD New York and CBS HD
Philadelphia on Sundays. There are also different games on FOX HD New York and
FOX HD Philadelphia. The other big advantage is YES HD and no blackouts of Yankees or
Mets games on YES, MSG/FoxSportsNY, UPN and WB, even if playing the Phillies. Between the two services I get every NHL game for Flyers, Rangers, Devils and Islanders, every NBA
game for Sixers, Knicks and Nets, every football game for Eagles, Giants and Jets,
every baseball game for Yankees and Mets. Do not get every baseball game for Phillies
which is a sore point with me.

The quality of cable HD is almost similar to Dish. But Dish is better. However, because
of compression the cable feed freezes and skips. Sometimes the cable HD feed is lost
and the screen goes black, then it comes back after maybe one minute. But there have been times when it is unavailable all weekend. There is pictualization on the cable HD feeds. Many times the YES feed is lost during a game and then it comes back. The Dish program guide is far superior to cable. Much easier to use. I have a Dish 921 which has given me many problems but I like not paying a fee for it, and when it works it does the job. I hope to upgrade to a 962 shortly!!

With Voom I watch a movie from Guy TV 2 or three times a month and I watch Equator
TV, once or twice a week. Voom would not keep me with Dish, but I would keep it as long
as I am with Dish.

I have two 13 year olds and a 16 year old still at home. They do not watch cable, only
Dish. When they move out of the house, I will probably get rid of AEP, but I will still
keep Dish HD, VOOM, HD locals if they have them by then, MLB EI, NBA League Pass, NHL
Center Ice, and HBO HD. Maybe a few other new HD channels. Probably add Sports Pak to keep the golf channel. But I will still have my cable as well because of sports blackouts and rain fade and NY HD channels.

[Willie]

I had Adelphia Digital Cable, and it was probably one of the worst experiences I have had.

Normally you would pay your bills on the first of the month, correct? Adelphia changed their policy and required people to pay their bill on the end of the month, instead of the beginning. Unfortunately, alot of people in my area were not informed and their service was cut off month after month. People thought they were just giving out shotty digital cable boxes, but after awhile, Adelphia finally sent notice of their new policy.

During that time, they ran up cable bills and didn't provide any quality entertainment on them either.

Now my county is in a legal battle with them over promises they made and haven't came thru with. They had promised the area they would come thru with cable internet access to our county. Their main hub for our area is ran in just outside our county (very rural) and they currently have cable internet access for them, but Adelphia will not bring it over to our county for whatever reason. Also they promised upgrades in the lines, support, everything, but NONE of which have happened. All this promised over a year ago as well.

Pretty shotty individuals I would NOT deal with.

[Jeff McClellan]

I think if you give both DBS providers another year, the old saying of, momentum, is going to definitely shift back towards DBS. Direct likes to boost about whats coming and I guess thats ok. Echostar on the other hand remains quiet but planning feverishly behind the doors. In the end we will see which scores the touchdown. But no one should ever think, Dish is sitting idly bye. When the time comes, Charlie will pull his ace. I have send him do it to many times in the past.

Cable- went their, did that, 6 months ago. The one year deal is great. Present state, great, but I like the anticipation of the future.

[Nick]

Well, I've made my decision.

After careful analysis and taking into consideration many factrors, I'm going forward with Adelphia cable. My new HD DVR, which runs $7.95/m will be ready for pickup tomorrow, saving me the $24.95 "install" fee. The local Adelphia office is just a mile down the road. No commitment, so I can bail if future changes (Comcast/T-W) warrant.

With Adelphia package discounts, my total monthly will run $75/m less than what I am currently paying for DBS + analog cable + broadband. If I do go back to DBS after a year or so, I'll be a "new" customer and will qualify for any specials being offered by E* or D* at that time. I'm tired of waiting for locals in HD from E* or D*

Here are some of the factors leading to my choosing cable:

- lower total monthly cost, including junk fees:
--- Dishn + BB $168 (includes broadband cost) + analog cable ($45) = $213
--- Cable + BB $138 (broadband included)
- more channels, more movies, and I finally get locals (ABC, NBC, FOX) in HD
- no up-front cost for an HD DVR which, at $7.95/m, will take 82 mos to equal the current $650 cost of a 942
- future upgrades @ no cost
- local service, fast & dependable
- future hardware upgrades at no cost other than applicable monthly fee.
- no phone line required
- simplicity

Finally, I have a bunch of dish gear which I will probably sell cheap and free up some much-needed closet space. Thanks to all who gave suggestions and otherwise posted comments.

[Steve Mehs]

Congratulations Nick!

Decent cable systems seem to be a hard find, and if you’re in an area with one, go for it, especially if you can get more satisfaction for the same or less price! And like you said, if it doesn’t work out, you not under contract so you can cancel at any time without penalty. I can't wait to join ya. I'm still working on the parental factor. I can't believe this is the case, don't adjust your monitor folks, the pixels are fine, my ever so dearest mother is not so willing to give up DirecTV, since TW currently does not carry, Shop at Home and Celebrity Shopping Network.

Oh well, at least you have the luxury of not having a female make decisions for you :lol: Enjoy your new service Nick!

[Nick]

Congratulations Nick!...you have the luxury of not having a female make decisions for you :lol: Enjoy your new service Nick!Thanks, Steve. Come down to God's country, Brother, and watch a little TurnerSouth on cable with me. :D

<rant>

I have never allowed a woman to make important decisions for me, unless it's "what's for dinner, Honey?" Most females don't/can't make decisions based on logic, or even common sense (not scents). With all due respect to your dear mother, she's a classic example of what I'm saying.

I and both of my dear exes are doing well today because I planned ahead and invested wisely. It disgusts me when I see a woman out spending her husband's hard-earned money faster than he can make it. Since I was 14, I have never let any woman run my life, including my own mother, God rest her soul. I have a pt gf who is supporting 6 pets, paying considerable vet bills, including surgery twice on one scruffy mutt who would be in doggy heaven by now if it were mine. Making matters even more ridiculous, she orders food from QVC, but the good news is she pays her own damn bills with what little money she has left over from running her own private animal rescue service, and yes, and she's a card-carrying member of PETA. :rolleyes:

When a man marries a woman, unless he knows his own mind, she will give him a piece of hers every day. A word of advice: never give up your principals or your prerogatives for a pretty face or a piece of ass, no matter how good it is, and never, ever hand over your paycheck to a woman.

That's just plain stupid. :nono2:

</rant>

Now, back to our regularly scheduled thread. :D
:backtotop

[David97]

I just made the switch to Adelphia from Dish to i got tired of waiting for locals plus i get them in HD! Now i can watch football again with Dish the only time i could watch the Redskins is if they where playing NY. Now i get all the below in HD i rent the HD box from Adelphia for $7.95 with Dish i think i would have needed a second sat ($199.00 plus a 942 reciver $700?) then if they switced to MPEG4 i wasted money on the 942. I Still have Dish and will cancel later on.

ABC HD
CBS HD
NBC HD
WVPT HD

HBO HD
HD SHOWTIME
HD STARZ Starz HD
HD CINEMAX Cinemax HD

HD NET
HDN MOVIES HD
ESPN HD ESPN
ESPN2 HD
INHD1 iNDemand HD
INHD2 iNDemand HD 2
DISC HD Discovery HD
NFL HD NFL Network HD

[Nick]

Sounds like we're on the same track, David. :)

[Nick]

I've been watching Adelphia's UltimateAdvantagePak digital cable and testing Scientific-Atlanta's Explorer model 8300 HD DVR for a week now, and here are some of my initial impressions. I know this is not exactly a DBS topic, but it is one long-time satellite subscriber's experience in comparing the two technologies and making the 'hard' decisions. Cable has come a long way since I last subscribed in 2000, and we consumers are the winners.

- The rental STB is both an A/D cable converter and HD DVR in one unit
- my 'self-install' involved making connections and pressing a front-panel 2-button combo -- very simple and fast, with no call to the mother ship necessary.
- with dual-tuners, the unit is similar in logic and ease of operation to Dish DVRs
- I haven't yet found a timer option to simply change channels, so I'm using the record function, with a one-day delete
- digital PQ is on par with Dish, as is HD PQ
- the remote control is very reminiscent of the Dishplayer 7200 remote, but with a few more buttons/functionality
- the DVR function has slow fwd and rev, as well as 'jump' to live tv button.
- the unit will record 2 live programs simultaneously, or watch 1, record 1 (I also bypass [split] the cable feed so I can record 2, watch 1 analog)
- the EPG is very fast, with no wait for updates
- channel-changes are almost instant, making channel-surfing possible again :)
- one completely silent, standard-size STB in my rack does it all, including HDTV indicator & digital time display :)

The component & S-video/composite outputs are hot simultaneously. I use the composite out to feed my switched, wireless SD network to 4 other tv/monitors located in different rooms around my apartment. The 2 tv's are also connect directly to analog cable.

With both digital and analog cable feeds to my main display, a 53" Panasonic wide-screen, I now have 2 PiP capability, great for keeping an eye on hurricanes and sporting events while watching other programming.

After a week, I'm surprised to find that I don't miss Dish at all. I will miss my "bootlegged" (not stolen) out-of-area ATL locals which, although I've been retired three years from my 30-year stint in the big city, I have enjoyed having them so I could keep up with the nightly murder reports and the gridlock traffic. Now I will have to rely on JAX & SAV locals for all that gore and more.

In summary, after more than 5 years with Dish, I'm gone from satellite, at least for a while, or unless the looming Comcast/T-W takeover royally screws things up with my Adelphia 'experience' which, so far has been pretty damn good!

Footnote: After my 'self-install' of the STB, I was missing a few digital channels, so I called the 1-800 number and the CSR scheduled a service call for the next day! Less than an hour after my call, a uniformed Adelphia unexpectedly tech showed up and quickly diagnosed and resolved the problem - low (digital) signal strength on certain channels. I was amazed at the service, but not surprised. This is one Adelphia franchise that works hard to deliver top-notch service -- wide channel selection, excellent PQ (analog/digital/HD), and responsive, capable local customer/technical service. What else could I ask for?

[Ghostwriter]

Just to chime in also. I had Comcast come and install their STB last Friday. Unfortunately their quality is not the same as Adelphia and or Dish. Their HD is noticeably worse than Dish and the SD channels are even worse. Comcasts HD broadcast (esp the locals) stutters like crazy and sound falls in and out. I am about to unhook all the STBs and return them to Comcast. Seems like you guys are in luck with Adelphia.

[Phil T]

Nick,

I posted my experiences with the Adelphia Motorola HD-DVR in this thread.

http://www.dbstalk.com/showthread.php?t=47366

It sounds like the SA may be a better box or your service area is better than in Warren County, OH.

[Nick]

I just now made the call to Dish to discontinue my (AAEP+LOCALS+DISTANT NETS+HD w/VOOM) subscription effective immediately.

As expected, the CSR "notated" my account and transferred my call to the CR (customer retention) dept. The CR guy made a feeble attempt to keep my business, then having failed that, advised me of their $25 PENALTY fee if I returned. Now there's a disincentive to cvome back if I ever heard one. With that, I told the CR guy that IF I returned, it would only be after the 12-month period at which time I would be deemed a "new" customer and probably qualify for a "free" MPEG-4 HD DVR anyway. :D

When he asked my reason for quitting Dish, I simply said that my local Adelphia cable now offers a better deal, 28 more movie channels, "free" rental HD DVR, locals in HD, all at a net savings of $30/month, or a whopping $75/mo less than what I was paying for DBS, basic cable tv and cable broadband. I think the poor CR guy was stunned. :lol:

Now I've got to go take down my dish tree (3 dishes) before the next hurricane blows in, including my newest acquisition which my former next-door neighbor donated (abandoned) when she moved out owing rent. With my recently purchased $20 Craftsman 18v cordless drill and a "deep-throat" socket, that shouldn't take too long.

Adios, mi amigo in the sky -- you served me well.

I am now a mere statistic known as "churn".

(Nick thinks to himself -- "Hmmm -- let's see, now - 12 x $75 = $900/yr - enough to take a singles cruise to the Caribbean in January!")