R15 Review: Reinvented the wheel, came out square

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I have decided to give up, after a week of testing this thing. It's so bad, in so many areas, that I just can't justify wasting any more time with it. I'm packing it up and sending it back.

I had eagerly anticipated the release of this new generation of DVR, since it gives insight into the future of DirecTV. The future is High Definition. With the recent launch of SW2, DirecTV seems poised to start rolling out new HD services. And the forthcoming HD DVR, using basically the same software as the r15, will be the only way to enjoy any new mpeg4 HD offerings with a DVR. So I decided to get an r15 to test, in parallel, with an r10 I already had.

I set up the same series recordings and searches on both machines to see what would happen. Unfortunately, I discovered very quickly that the Find function on the r15 is totally inadequate for my particular usage. There's a limit of 25 on recent finds, there is no way to save searches other than setting them to autorecord (which introduces a whole new set of problems), and there's no way to search all the recent finds as a group. Additionally, searches display episode titles rather than series names, there's no way to exclude channels you don't even receive from the results, and the results miss hits which the r10 finds. Then I discovered that you can have a maximum of 50 series links. Initially, that sounds like it might be a lot, but for me it quickly became apparent that this thing is just terribly underpowered for my needs. The hard limit of 50 is really a practical limit of around 35, because any more than that and the r15 gets extremely sluggish and prone to freeze ups. For a couple of days when I was trying to run the thing at 50 items in the prioritizer I was getting 4 or 5 freeze ups PER DAY. That has stopped as I have been running only 25 or so in the prioritizer for the last few days. Maybe these limits will be fixed, eventually, but I have a nagging fear that they were put in there due to hardware limitations. (Hypothetical memo from Rupert Murdoch to design team: "Make this thing CHEAP to build!")

There is no way to set up a series recording to record only new episodes. There is an option to select that, but it doesn't work. Maybe that will be fixed eventually. Want to set up three series to record, but have a conflict? You might want A and B if they're both originals, but C if A or B is a repeat. Good luck with that. First of all, you'll get all A and B episodes because it records repeats as well as originals, but besides that, you have to jump through hoops just to set it up using an autorecord find. Maybe that'll be fixed eventually. Dual buffers? Maybe that will be fixed eventually, too.

Are you a sports fan? I rarely watch live sports anymore, but what I do like to do is record each game my local teams play, and then if I care to, I can check out the overtime goal, or the walk off homer, or the controversial call that should have been overturned, or the latest injury to a Jets' quarterback. I use one of my hr10s to catch HD games, and one of my dsr6000s to catch all the SD games. Using autorecord wishlists set to retain 2 events each, and set fairly low in the SP priority list, it works very well. I tried to set up the same thing on the r15, and got some games recorded, but also got a lot of partial recordings, recordings on channels I don't receive or subscribe to, and some just missed completely. The r15 is not smart enough to know that if a lower priority item conflicts with a higher priority item, it should try to schedule it at a later time. Instead, it records partial programs.

I could go on and on. I haven't even mentioned any of the little user interface things that are just badly designed. It's slow to respond to remote control commands. Nothing is intuitive. Everything seems to take many more key presses than on the r10. Screens have much less information displayed. Information on individual programs is truncated. History is minimally informative, and does not even show upcoming conflicts. New series get added to the top of the prioritizer, and then to move them down is just agonizingly slow. If you're on a screen showing a list, and you use channel up/down to scroll through the list more quickly, and then hit it once more after reaching the end of the list, you change the channel you had been watching without warning. Goodbye buffer. These are just some of the little annoying things that pop into my mind, there are many more.....

I'm finished. Finished with this thing, and probably finished as a DirecTV customer in the not too distant future. When they start offering HD content that is not accessible using my hr10s, then I will have a decision to make. There are other options for me, and until now I wouldn't even have considered them. I am actually shocked that DirecTV would have made a series of decisions that would lead them to the point of releasing a machine this bad.

The above is all strictly my opinion. The r15 may suit your needs very well. It does not suit mine.

Alan

[01ds650]

I agree I'm sending mine back too maybe. I'll just add a 2nd TiVo & be happy.
This new box is a joke.

[kbohip]

Ugh. This is what I was really hoping this new box wouldn't be like. It sounds like the Dish DVR's all over again. :nono2: Unreliable and a bad interface. I'll be holding onto my R10 as long as I can from the sounds of this R15 so far.

[Clint Lamor]

Ya well sorry if I think 1 week of existence is a little too soon to say bad things. Tivo was (and still is) FAR from being perfect when it came out. The first usints where missing tons of features and had MANY of the same sorts of problems. Now 6-12 months from now if the majority of these issues arent being taken care of then we should all call DirecTV and start yelling.

[boba]

This is a replacement for a know working product. R-15s should be as good as the unit they are replacing right out of the box or they shouldn't be released.

[Wolffpack]

What features where missing from the original DTivos? Other than those that DTV choose not to include? Tivos were out for a while before DTV started their version. I don't recall any updates to fix bugs.

[Clint Lamor]

This is a replacement for a know working product. R-15s should be as good as the unit they are replacing right out of the box or they shouldn't be released.

A known working product that still has issues I might add. Just check the TC forums and you will see things that happen all the time.

[01ds650]

My Tivo NEVER had issues like these. I WANT to like the R15, but I just can't.

[Alexandrepsf]

My Tivo NEVER had issues like these. I WANT to like the R15, but I just can't.


You have a short memory or did not use Tivo long enough to know that Tivo had its share of big problems.

Here is an example of one of the big issues of the Tivo box:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=40681&page=1&pp=30

R15 is an unfinished box and was certainly rushed to the market, but it is not as bad as some are saying it is.

[01ds650]

I've had TiVo for 1 year. Less problems in that year than in 2 weeks with the R15. That's the facts.

[01ds650]

Just got done resetting the damn R15. Wouldn't respond to DVR commands. Odd my TiVo never does that. People need to stop kissing Directv's a$$ & let them know we expect the best, not 2nd hand Dish junk.

[Wolffpack]

You have a short memory or did not use Tivo long enough to know that Tivo had its share of big problems.

Here is an example of one of the big issues of the Tivo box:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=40681&page=1&pp=30

R15 is an unfinished box and was certainly rushed to the market, but it is not as bad as some are saying it is.
Ah, I understand somewhat. I never really had problems with Tivo but I didn't start until DTivo was available. I started with an HDVR2 running 3.1.1b. Probably about 2003 ish. So yes, you are correct in that regard.

However, Tivo at that stage was working on an idea no one had even thought of, a new product selling to a new market. Hughes made a business decision to sever the partnership (or whatever it was) with Tivo so they could build and distribute their own PVR. When a business makes the decision to stop carrying one widget in favor of their new widget, customers do expect at least the same quality of widget and the same functions from the new widget.

BTW, didn't Tivo TM the term DVR? So now that DTV's are not Tivo units should they be called PVRs?

EDIT: I guess to add here, that problem was from January 2002. Running on version 2.x of the Tivo software, on standalone Tivos. Currently standalone Tivos are on 7.2? I think. So progress has been made. From 2002 to 2005 it is a better product. My point above being Hughes knew the level of expectation customer have currently. If you folks with R15s want to wait until 2008 for a stable unit you are free to do so. As the topic of this thread states, "Why reinvent the wheel?"

[nabsltd]

Tivo was (and still is) FAR from being perfect when it came out. The first usints where missing tons of features and had MANY of the same sorts of problems.This is true, but DirecTV doesn't seem to have learned from the experience of other companies.

Open source software (MythTV) seems to do a better job at being a DVR (which means to record things that it is supposed to record) than the R15.

[urnote96]

Kinda sad when people are comparing everything to the TIVO, when most people that have directv and do not have a DirectDVR/Tivo will not know the difference becuase this will be the first DVR they get. But most of the people on the boards that I read all have TIVOs and are comparing the R15 to the all the rest. Give it a chance.

Yeah i do not like the Direct DVR right now, but with a few upgrades and down the the line the New DirectDVR will be almost perfect.

SHow me a product that a company introduces and its perfect right out the box.....

[Clint Lamor]

Just got done resetting the damn R15. Wouldn't respond to DVR commands. Odd my TiVo never does that. People need to stop kissing Directv's a$$ & let them know we expect the best, not 2nd hand Dish junk.

Uhh ya I think Tivo has been around more then a year and had many many problems. Heck the last version they had on the SA Tivo's was so bad that at times you flat out couldn't use it, the menus got horribly slow, it would take the remote forever to respond, sometimes it would resond with 2x 3x the button presses then you actually told it to, mine rebooted more then a few times on it's own, shows that weren't recorded and so on. So ya it's perfect and works exactly as it's supposed to with every release (oh and BTW Tivo lost some customers over that release). Now I am not kissing anyone's butt, but you need to have your facts straight first.

[Alexandrepsf]

Just got done resetting the damn R15. Wouldn't respond to DVR commands. Odd my TiVo never does that. People need to stop kissing Directv's a$$ & let them know we expect the best, not 2nd hand Dish junk.

I am very critic of the way that this box was commercialised, but it is a wrong way of saying that DirecTV PVR (Thanks Wolf :) ) is not Tivo, so it is not good. Tivo had so many years to work on their software to get their box stable, and what you see now is not what we used to have 3-4 years ago, a lot of bugs were fixed to get them where they are today.

I am expecting to see the box being functional very fast, otherwise they are going to lose a lot of viewers (they = D*). I do not have any insider information, but I really think that they commercialised their box through VE before proposing it to the general public because they knew that people like us will jump on it and will find a lot of bugs and I think (hope) that at the big launch of the box there will be a new software update with some of the bugs that we found fixed.

Cheers,
Alex

[Clint Lamor]

This is true, but DirecTV doesn't seem to have learned from the experience of other companies.

Open source software (MythTV) seems to do a better job at being a DVR (which means to record things that it is supposed to record) than the R15.

While I would agree that they failed to learn from the past mistakes others made, though I still blame MANY of these problems on just HORRIBLE Beta testing, I will disagree with the MythTV portion. I have had a MythTV box for some time and it screws up often and is very hard to make work and has ALSO been worked on for quite some time and having issues. On the bright side it is free and fun to play with.

[Wolffpack]

Kinda sad when people are comparing everything to the TIVO, when most people that have directv and do not have a DirectDVR/Tivo will not know the difference becuase this will be the first DVR they get. But most of the people on the boards that I read all have TIVOs and are comparing the R15 to the all the rest. Give it a chance.

Yeah i do not like the Direct DVR right now, but with a few upgrades and down the the line the New DirectDVR will be almost perfect.

SHow me a product that a company introduces and its perfect right out the box.....
Why is everyone saying give this new product a chance?

This isn't a NEW PRODUCT. DirecTV has offered a DVR for years and now has come out with their "2nd generation" version DVR. Like Tivo moving from the Series 1 to Series 2 units. While this is an entire new piece of hardware, in my Mind it should not be treated as a company with a new offering.

When a company informs their customers that "this model will be discontinued" and "this is the new model" the new model better be equal to or greater than the old. Am I the only one seeing this????

This isn't a case of Tivo versus the R15, this is a case of DTV changing the product line and expecting customers to accept it.

I don't have an R15. Don't plan to at this point. I also don't have any Dish DVR and don't plan to. But if someone came in and said I can't have my Tivos any longer, I'd go with Dish simply because their DVRs have had more road time.

There is simply no excuse for releaseing a DVR that can't record what it's suppose to. And that doesn't even talk about the features that were available in previous DTV DVRs.

Look at the R15 as the new DirecTV DVR. It should perform as well as the old DirecTV DVR, shouldn't it?

[Clint Lamor]

Ah, I understand somewhat. I never really had problems with Tivo but I didn't start until DTivo was available. I started with an HDVR2 running 3.1.1b. Probably about 2003 ish. So yes, you are correct in that regard.

However, Tivo at that stage was working on an idea no one had even thought of, a new product selling to a new market. Hughes made a business decision to sever the partnership (or whatever it was) with Tivo so they could build and distribute their own PVR. When a business makes the decision to stop carrying one widget in favor of their new widget, customers do expect at least the same quality of widget and the same functions from the new widget.

BTW, didn't Tivo TM the term DVR? So now that DTV's are not Tivo units should they be called PVRs?

EDIT: I guess to add here, that problem was from January 2002. Running on version 2.x of the Tivo software, on standalone Tivos. Currently standalone Tivos are on 7.2? I think. So progress has been made. From 2002 to 2005 it is a better product. My point above being Hughes knew the level of expectation customer have currently. If you folks with R15s want to wait until 2008 for a stable unit you are free to do so. As the topic of this thread states, "Why reinvent the wheel?"

Tivo didn't invent the DVR as a matter of fact there are many debates on the fact they they actually beat RePlayTV to market (yes they did actually sell the first units) but Replay at the time had the better features. It's my belief that had Replay not made some stupid decisions and ticked off the Content owners so badly we would probably all be talking Replay now instead of Tivo, in the eyes of many people (myself included) Replay had a much cooler product.

Also these problems that the R15 has I think canbe fixed pretty quickly, though I think they should beat the Beta testers before us (ya we are testing the darn thing) for doing such a bad job.

[Clint Lamor]

Why is everyone saying give this new product a chance?

This isn't a NEW PRODUCT. DirecTV has offered a DVR for years and now has come out with their "2nd generation" version DVR. Like Tivo moving from the Series 1 to Series 2 units. While this is an entire new piece of hardware, in my Mind it should not be treated as a company with a new offering.

When a company informs their customers that "this model will be discontinued" and "this is the new model" the new model better be equal to or greater than the old. Am I the only one seeing this????

This isn't a case of Tivo versus the R15, this is a case of DTV changing the product line and expecting customers to accept it.

I don't have an R15. Don't plan to at this point. I also don't have any Dish DVR and don't plan to. But if someone came in and said I can't have my Tivos any longer, I'd go with Dish simply because their DVRs have had more road time.

There is simply no excuse for releaseing a DVR that can't record what it's suppose to. And that doesn't even talk about the features that were available in previous DTV DVRs.

Look at the R15 as the new DirecTV DVR. It should perform as well as the old DirecTV DVR, shouldn't it?

DirecTV owned Tivo?

If not then this is the first DirecTV made and powered DVR to be released. Give it a chance because it's the only choice you will soo have, Tivo will not be updated any longer. Unless they are unable to fix all the issues with this DVR (highly doubtful) then this is the future of DirecTV and for anyone wanting to stick with DirecTV it's in their best interest to want this box working. No product is perfect and neither is Tivo or the R10, people have issues with them all the time.

[Alexandrepsf]

Ah, I understand somewhat. I never really had problems with Tivo but I didn't start until DTivo was available. I started with an HDVR2 running 3.1.1b. Probably about 2003 ish. So yes, you are correct in that regard.

However, Tivo at that stage was working on an idea no one had even thought of, a new product selling to a new market. Hughes made a business decision to sever the partnership (or whatever it was) with Tivo so they could build and distribute their own PVR. When a business makes the decision to stop carrying one widget in favor of their new widget, customers do expect at least the same quality of widget and the same functions from the new widget.

BTW, didn't Tivo TM the term DVR? So now that DTV's are not Tivo units should they be called PVRs?

EDIT: I guess to add here, that problem was from January 2002. Running on version 2.x of the Tivo software, on standalone Tivos. Currently standalone Tivos are on 7.2? I think. So progress has been made. From 2002 to 2005 it is a better product. My point above being Hughes knew the level of expectation customer have currently. If you folks with R15s want to wait until 2008 for a stable unit you are free to do so. As the topic of this thread states, "Why reinvent the wheel?"


Hi Wolf,

Yes the first two editions of Tivo software was incomplete and with some annoying bugs.

I absolutely agree with you, D* had to take advantage of the Tivo experience and have a product almost at the same level as Tivo, but it is not done, and we are all angry/disappointed about it.

I think all is related to the fact that they want to have their product in the market for Xmas (speculations, no inside info), they have stopped production of DTivo so if this box is not ready for the holidays they might lose a lot of business, that is why they rushed it in to the market but did a very discrete commercialization, they want to have a first impression of the hard-core users and from there fix some big issues before the "official" release. They might have seen the debacle of Dish with their PVR and did not want to go through the same discreditation. ALL IMHO.

Cheers,
Alex

[Clint Lamor]

Hi Wolf,

Yes the first two editions of Tivo software was incomplete and with some annoying bugs.

I absolutely agree with you, D* had to take advantage of the Tivo experience and have a product almost at the same level as Tivo, but it is not done, and we are all angry/disappointed about it.

I think all is related to the fact that they want to have their product in the market for Xmas (speculations, no inside info), they have stopped production of DTivo so if this box is not ready for the holidays they might lose a lot of business, that is why they rushed it in to the market but did a very discrete commercialization, they want to have a first impression of the hard-core users and from there fix some big issues before the "official" release. They might have seen the debacle of Dish with their PVR and did not want to go through the same discreditation. ALL IMHO.

Cheers,
Alex

Well I was hoping you where right so I went to check the BestBuy website, it used to have them and said coming soon, now it lets you add it to the cart and says usually ships within 1 day. I seriously think they didn't know about many of these issues because of the of sub par beta testing that went on.

Edit - Ok because of NOT paying attention I click on the R10 before, after clicking on the CORRECT DVR it still says Coming Soon on the BestBuy website.

[Wolffpack]

Also these problems that the R15 has I think canbe fixed pretty quickly, though I think they should beat the Beta testers before us (ya we are testing the darn thing) for doing such a bad job.
Yes. However, speaking from experience on some of the early DTV HD receivers, nothing comes quickly. That was the old DTV, not the current DTV. Things could be different.

[Clint Lamor]

Yes. However, speaking from experience on some of the early DTV HD receivers, nothing comes quickly. That was the old DTV, not the current DTV. Things could be different.

They have done 2 updates on this box already, so I am "HOPING" they actually continue to update this box. Hopefully they are a better company under Murdoch who responds quicker to their customers. If not I am guessing many of us here will be looking into cable/fios and so on in the near future.

[Donnie Byrd]

Hi Wolf,

I think all is related to the fact that they want to have their product in the market for Xmas (speculations, no inside info), they have stopped production of DTivo so if this box is not ready for the holidays they might lose a lot of business, that is why they rushed it in to the market but did a very discrete commercialization, they want to have a first impression of the hard-core users and from there fix some big issues before the "official" release. They might have seen the debacle of Dish with their PVR and did not want to go through the same discreditation. ALL IMHO.

Cheers,
Alex

a rather "excellent assumption"..............makes sense too :D

[Wolffpack]

Hi Wolf,

Yes the first two editions of Tivo software was incomplete and with some annoying bugs.

I absolutely agree with you, D* had to take advantage of the Tivo experience and have a product almost at the same level as Tivo, but it is not done, and we are all angry/disappointed about it.

I think all is related to the fact that they want to have their product in the market for Xmas (speculations, no inside info), they have stopped production of DTivo so if this box is not ready for the holidays they might lose a lot of business, that is why they rushed it in to the market but did a very discrete commercialization, they want to have a first impression of the hard-core users and from there fix some big issues before the "official" release. They might have seen the debacle of Dish with their PVR and did not want to go through the same discreditation. ALL IMHO.

Cheers,
Alex

I agree completely Alex. One would have hoped they took their time to "get it right" with the same features and reliability. Aside of course from the Tivo patented stuff.

The real item that concerns me if Dish taking this opportunity to let everyone know DTV is moveing back in time from a technilogical standpoint.

[Clint Lamor]

I agree completely Alex. One would have hoped they took their time to "get it right" with the same features and reliability. Aside of course from the Tivo patented stuff.

The real item that concerns me if Dish taking this opportunity to let everyone know DTV is moveing back in time from a technilogical standpoint.

Why are they moving back technology wise? Just wondering.

[Wolffpack]

Why are they moving back technology wise? Just wondering.
Do you think the R15 can be compared to the R10 from a technology standpoint? Now, by technology I'm not talking about cables, chips, memory and fancy blue lights and such. I'm talking about technology, which includes software and.....functionality.

If you believe the R15 is a better product than the R10 that's fine. I don't, just from reports I've read. Do you think the folks on the E* side have no idea what's going on here?

BTW, I would like to see a comparison from the hardware standpoint. What the differences are between processors, memory and OS. I think that would be very interesting.

[Wolffpack]

They have done 2 updates on this box already, so I am "HOPING" they actually continue to update this box. Hopefully they are a better company under Murdoch who responds quicker to their customers. If not I am guessing many of us here will be looking into cable/fios and so on in the near future.
You've gotten two updates on the R15 since what, Nov 1st? Is that true? If so, good for D*. That's great!!!!

[Clint Lamor]

Do you think the R15 can be compared to the R10 from a technology standpoint? Now, by technology I'm not talking about cables, chips, memory and fancy blue lights and such. I'm talking about technology, which includes software and.....functionality.

If you believe the R15 is a better product than the R10 that's fine. I don't, just from reports I've read. Do you think the folks on the E* side have no idea what's going on here?

BTW, I would like to see a comparison from the hardware standpoint. What the differences are between processors, memory and OS. I think that would be very interesting.

Do I think it's a better product? No not really, I think it's close to on par with Tivo (thouhg not as functional right now) but as I have stated in the past Tivo wasnt what it is even a year or so ago. I think they could have done a better job but then again how good of a job they did probably depends on who you ask and they asked the wrong people.

[Clint Lamor]

You've gotten two updates on the R15 since what, Nov 1st? Is that true? If so, good for D*. That's great!!!!

I think it shipped on Nov 7th so there have been 2 updates since then (though the first one was immediate for everyone). So I give them a little credit though I think they need to tell us whats being fixed in this machine.

[Wolffpack]

I think it shipped on Nov 7th so there have been 2 updates since then (though the first one was immediate for everyone). So I give them a little credit though I think they need to tell us whats being fixed in this machine.
That's a good sign. Far better than some of my past experiences. :eek2:

[01ds650]

Some of you people just have lower standards than others of us I guess. You don't see Honda dropping the Accord to get replaced by some car of GM quality. If they did do you think people would except it? Heck no. There is a reason satelitte DVR customers are with Direct.... TiVo. They wanted the best & now the get this R15. My friends Dish 625 is a better DVR than the R15. That is sad how things have changed. In fact I can no longer recommend Direct to my friends and/or co-workers (yes my job is that boring we talk about nerdy stuff like DVRs). The TiVo I can recommend, the R15 I'm ashamed I bought.

I talked with Direct & they assure me that they know it isn't right & they are compiling complaints just like mine & then they will release another update. I hope it is coming quick!

So go ahead kiss Directs a$$ is you must. I pay alot of money every month for TV. If Direct is no longer the best & is going in the direction of cheaper & inferior products I'll go elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with demanding better. If no-one did we'd still be watch 12" B&W TV's.

It's this simple. My near perfect TiVo is getting replaced by an inferior product that Direct has plastered all over magazine & TV ads. If they have money for those ads they have money to supply a better DVR. I guess it comes down to a personal choice. Some people like the best, some people like just barely good enough.

[raott]

Why are they moving back technology wise? Just wondering.

Uh, no dual buffers, won't let you schedule to record more than 100 items, starts crapping out when there are between 30 and 50 scheduled and then slows to a crawl, no suggestions.

[ad301]

Ya well sorry if I think 1 week of existence is a little too soon to say bad things. Tivo was (and still is) FAR from being perfect when it came out. The first usints where missing tons of features and had MANY of the same sorts of problems. Now 6-12 months from now if the majority of these issues arent being taken care of then we should all call DirecTV and start yelling.

I never said or implied that any tivo, including the r10, was perfect. Using revisionist history to trash tivo is not going to get the r15 fixed any quicker. Additionally, I have stated that for me, it's not about the name on the box, it's about the feature set. Until last week, the current feature set of the DirecTV DVR was represented by the capabilities of the r10. To directly compare the capabilities of the new DVR is a completely valid excercise. Hell, to get an idea of the future direction of DirecTV, you'd be stupid *not* to compare. "1 week of existence is a little too soon to say bad things." Would you prefer that we all stuck our heads in the sand and pretended that the r15 actually is "perfect"?

I *do* have a vested interest in seeing this thing fixed. I *do* want the HD version of this thing to be something I'll feel very comfortable with as replacments for my hr10s. I believe that we all need to call DirecTV and start yelling, write to DirecTV with our concerns, and discuss the flaws of this machine publicly and openly. And we need to do this NOW. Waiting 6-12 months serves no useful purpose. I'd like to share in your optimism that all the issues with this machine will be fixed, and quickly. I guess we'll see.

[ad301]

Some of you people just have lower standards than others of us I guess. You don't see Honda dropping the Accord to get replaced by some car of GM quality. If they did do you think people would except it? Heck no. There is a reason satelitte DVR customers are with Direct.... TiVo. They wanted the best & now the get this R15. My friends Dish 625 is a better DVR than the R15. That is sad how things have changed. In fact I can no longer recommend Direct to my friends and/or co-workers (yes my job is that boring we talk about nerdy stuff like DVRs). The TiVo I can recommend, the R15 I'm ashamed I bought.

I talked with Direct & they assure me that they know it isn't right & they are compiling complaints just like mine & then they will release another update. I hope it is coming quick!

So go ahead kiss Directs a$$ is you must. I pay alot of money every month for TV. If Direct is no longer the best & is going in the direction of cheaper & inferior products I'll go elsewhere. There is nothing wrong with demanding better. If no-one did we'd still be watch 12" B&W TV's.

It's this simple. My near perfect TiVo is getting replaced by an inferior product that Direct has plastered all over magazine & TV ads. If they have money for those ads they have money to supply a better DVR. I guess it comes down to a personal choice. Some people like the best, some people like just barely good enough.

Very well said.

[Capmeister]

Some of you people just have lower standards than others of us I guess. You don't see Honda dropping the Accord to get replaced by some car of GM quality. If they did do you think people would except it? Heck no. There is a reason satelitte DVR customers are with Direct.... TiVo.

It's the reason I left DISH and came to DirecTV, the HD-Tivo. Whomever has the best HD-DVR gets my business. If it comes around that it's DISH that does when the time comes to turn in my HD-Tivo, they'll get my business over D*. Simple as that.

[ad301]

BTW, I would like to see a comparison from the hardware standpoint. What the differences are between processors, memory and OS. I think that would be very interesting.

I agree. I have this nagging fear that many of the limits we see in the software on this box (50 this, 100 that, 25 here, etc) are due to hardware limitations. I truly hope this turns out not to be the case.

[walters]

Actually, processor-wise it's fairly impressive.

http://mcu.st.com/mcu/inchtml.php?fdir=pages&fnam=st40

I'd have to do more digging for RAM, and no matter how hard I try I can't find anything out about the OS (or if there even is one).

OK, I believe it's 64MB RAM, correct me if I'm wrong. Earl's pictures appear to show two Samsung K4H561638 chips, which are each 16Mx16Bit (32MB, right?)

Pretty sure that's the same as the HDVR2, R10, etc., whereas the DSR6000 was 32MB.

[hawbaker]

everyone talks about giving DirecTV a chance with DVR to get bugs fixed.. but from what i understand, isn't the R15 based on existing DVRs made by NDS ? Weren't they already out for awhile. If that is the case, in my opinion, DirecTV (or NDS) does not really have any good excuses for releasing bug-ridden DVR like this. They already pushed the release of DVR about 3 times (3 months late?) - that should have gotten those bugs straighten out by now.

Before R15 came out, i was going to buy it over R10.. but now that I am hearing horror stories about missed shows, too many shows, partial shows, and freezing up. I think I will stick with Tivos - i've been with them since the beginning and they have done well. R10 here i come unless DirecTV can prove themselves within the next 1 or 2 weeks.

bob

[Clint Lamor]

Uh, no dual buffers, won't let you schedule to record more than 100 items, starts crapping out when there are between 30 and 50 scheduled and then slows to a crawl, no suggestions.

Dual Buffers are on the way, the 100 thing is flat out stuid, I have about 40 or so things scheduled and no problems with my unit outside of some of the dumb decisions they made and other bugs we have all discussed.

[Clint Lamor]

everyone talks about giving DirecTV a chance with DVR to get bugs fixed.. but from what i understand, isn't the R15 based on existing DVRs made by NDS ? Weren't they already out for awhile. If that is the case, in my opinion, DirecTV (or NDS) does not really have any good excuses for releasing bug-ridden DVR like this. They already pushed the release of DVR about 3 times (3 months late?) - that should have gotten those bugs straighten out by now.

Before R15 came out, i was going to buy it over R10.. but now that I am hearing horror stories about missed shows, too many shows, partial shows, and freezing up. I think I will stick with Tivos - i've been with them since the beginning and they have done well. R10 here i come unless DirecTV can prove themselves within the next 1 or 2 weeks.

bob

It's based onthe hardware yes, but I would venture that since all the menus would have to have been redone and the broadcast standard here is completely different that this box was just about a core rebuild. This is purely a guess, I would like to know if the NDS BSkyB boxes are having issues like we are all having.

[raott]

Dual Buffers are on the way, the 100 thing is flat out stuid, I have about 40 or so things scheduled and no problems with my unit outside of some of the dumb decisions they made and other bugs we have all discussed.

Dual buffers are not here right now. There is no excuse for them not to be.

That, and the rest of the bugs sure sounds like a step backward to me.

[Clint Lamor]

Dual buffers are not here right now. There is no excuse for them not to be.

That, and the rest of the bugs sure sounds like a step backward to me.

No there wasn't a valid excuse for it, but at least it's being fixed. Some of the other stuff is just completely unexcuseable to release a product with these issues. A step back? not really. More like a step sideways, my Tivo's had many of the issues I see now but with time they got fixed. HOPEFULLY they will fix this product, if not it goes away and I go to another provider (I see little reason to buy an R10 thats no longer supported by them)

[walters]

my Tivo's had many of the issues I see now but with time they got fixed.

You keep saying stuff like that. I got a DSR6000 in December 2000. I tested a prototype of the HDVR2 and bought one as soon as it came out. I tested a prototype of the R10 and bought one as soon as it came out. In 100+ builds of TiVo software I've never seen anything like what I've seen described in the past few weeks.

It was nice when they fixed that L/R digital audio swap bug back in 2.0.1, though.

[Clint Lamor]

You keep saying stuff like that. I got a DSR6000 in December 2000. I tested a prototype of the HDVR2 and bought one as soon as it came out. I tested a prototype of the R10 and bought one as soon as it came out. In 100+ builds of TiVo software I've never seen anything like what I've seen described in the past few weeks.

It was nice when they fixed that L/R digital audio swap bug back in 2.0.1, though.

Let see, how about the SA 7.x release that was so slow and had so many issues that people started to threaten of a lawsuit if they didn't get fixed. My machine had so many issues that I could no longer use it at times, to keep it at a somewhat decent speed I had to reboot the box once a week or so. The R10 is based on something that had already been working so if it had show stopper bugs I would have been really surprised, nothing new is in the R10 then the other Series 2 DirecTivo's. Tivo has missed many shows on my box (mostly with the early 7.x software) it has issues and always has and anlways will it's the nature of a software product. Yet I still use it EVERY day and will use them as long as they keep working and at that point I will probably replace my SA Tivos with whatever they have out at that point.

[ad301]

A step back? not really. More like a step sideways...

You must not use wishlists at all on your tivos. If you did, you would not have made that statement.

[walters]

Let see, how about the SA 7.x release that was so slow and had so many issues that people started to threaten of a lawsuit if they didn't get fixed. My machine had so many issues that I could no longer use it at times, to keep it at a somewhat decent speed I had to reboot the box once a week or so. The R10 is based on something that had already been working so if it had show stopper bugs I would have been really surprised, nothing new is in the R10 then the other Series 2 DirecTivo's. Tivo has missed many shows on my box (mostly with the early 7.x software) it has issues and always has and anlways will it's the nature of a software product. Yet I still use it EVERY day and will use them as long as they keep working and at that point I will probably replace my SA Tivos with whatever they have out at that point.

Well, I can't address SA software with any authority as I've never owned one (although I'd be shocked if 7.x itself, without any hardware issues, was as bad as you're making it out to be). But I thought we were comparing R15 to it's DirecTV predecessors.

BTW, R10 (Series 2.5) was a very different platform than HDVR2 and similar (Series 2), which itself was a very different platform than DSR6000 and similar (Series 1). The fact that nobody noticed says something about the TiVo software.

[Clint Lamor]

You must not use wishlists at all on your tivos. If you did, you would not have made that statement.

The only thing I use Wishlists for on Tivo is a few things and Tivo and the R15 are finding almost the same programs all the time. So do I use it in depth? No sir I don't.

[Clint Lamor]

Well, I can't address SA software with any authority as I've never owned one (although I'd be shocked if 7.x itself, without any hardware issues, was as bad as you're making it out to be). But I thought we were comparing R15 to it's DirecTV predecessors.

BTW, R10 (Series 2.5) was a very different platform than HDVR2 and similar (Series 2), which itself was a very different platform than DSR6000 and similar (Series 1). The fact that nobody noticed says something about the TiVo software.

No hardware issues and you can go and read many many threads on all the problems it created. As for the R10 you are getting the fixed version of the SA 7.x software which is why it was stable. As for R10 to R15, no I completely agree it's not as good as what it replaces, but I say give it a little time to see if they make it better or hang themselves.

[ad301]

The only thing I use Wishlists for on Tivo is a few things and Tivo and the R15 are finding almost the same programs all the time. So do I use it in depth? No sir I don't.

OK, fair enough. But try to realize that for many others, the lack of an equivalent for all the wishlist functions is going to be a severe drawback. This is very much a step backward in terms of features. But, as I said in my original post, the r15 may suit your needs, even as I, and others, find it totally unsuitable.

[Clint Lamor]

OK, fair enough. But try to realize that for many others, the lack of an equivalent for all the wishlist functions is going to be a severe drawback. This is very much a step backward in terms of features. But, as I said in my original post, the r15 may suit your needs, even as I, and others, find it totally unsuitable.

Oh I know some won't like it and I completely agree with everyone that it needs to be fixed. I am simply stating that for free you may as well stick it out for a little while and try and see if they can't get it fixed. Good or Bad it's their future and I want to make sure it's a bad one before I cut and run.

[nabsltd]

While I would agree that they failed to learn from the past mistakes others made, though I still blame MANY of these problems on just HORRIBLE Beta testing, I will disagree with the MythTV portion. I have had a MythTV box for some time and it screws up often and is very hard to make work and has ALSO been worked on for quite some time and having issues.Since both the Linux distribution and the hardware you have seem to make a large difference in stability, there are many people with few problems, and most of those are using the same hardware.

As you note, though, it's free, so you expect less, too, but time-based recordings (i.e., using it as a disk-based VCR) aren't much of an issue, while they still are a problem on the R15.

[raott]

Oh I know some won't like it and I completely agree with everyone that it needs to be fixed. I am simply stating that for free you may as well stick it out for a little while and try and see if they can't get it fixed.

It's hardly "free". You are subsidizing the box by agreeing to a two year commitment. You are also paying a higher DVR fee and additional fee for each additional receiver.

People can make (and have been making) all the excuses for D* they want but it doesn't change the fact the box is sub-standard, even compared to cable boxes, which are also "free"

[Clint Lamor]

It's hardly "free". You are subsidizing the box by agreeing to a two year commitment. You are also paying a higher DVR fee and additional fee for each additional receiver.

People can make (and have been making) all the excuses for D* they want but it doesn't change the fact the box is sub-standard, even compared to cable boxes, which are also "free"

Sorry but it is free, you want to break the contract you send the DVR back and the comittment is finished. The DVR fee also doesn't change if you already have a Tivo based device on the account. I don't mind discussing things but please don't try and make an argument not based on facts.

[Clint Lamor]

Since both the Linux distribution and the hardware you have seem to make a large difference in stability, there are many people with few problems, and most of those are using the same hardware.

As you note, though, it's free, so you expect less, too, but time-based recordings (i.e., using it as a disk-based VCR) aren't much of an issue, while they still are a problem on the R15.

Actually I have had problems with my MythTV box not recording what it's supposed to but for the most part I still think it's a pretty cool box. I guess I just like messing around with it. Now as for recording problems on the R15 only problems I have had is it recording too much that it's not supposed to which is bad and needs to be fixed, but as of today (knock on wood) it hasn't missed anything nor has it shorted me on anything it's recorded. It's not that I expect less from this box it's that I expect it to be fixed (in a decent amount of time) and if it's not I have said before and I will say again I will just send the box back and switch to either just my SA Tivos again or off to someone else.

[raott]

Sorry but it is free, you want to break the contract you send the DVR back and the comittment is finished. The DVR fee also doesn't change if you already have a Tivo based device on the account. I don't mind discussing things but please don't try and make an argument not based on facts.

The DVR fee is higher if you have not had DVR service before. The boxes are subsidized in your monthly bill whether your realize it or not.

You send the box back and it gets sent to someone else, the cost of the box IS being subsidized through subscribers.

You have defended this box whenever anybody has had any negative comments about it and very few of your arguments have been based in fact, ie "dual buffers are on the way". Find me an authoritative source that has said that other than a sales rep from a distributor who has been wrong on many occasions.

[Clint Lamor]

The DVR fee is higher if you have not had DVR service before. The boxes are subsidized in your monthly bill whether your realize it or not.

You send the box back and it gets sent to someone else, the cost of the box IS being subsidized through subscribers.

You have defended this box whenever anybody has had any negative comments about it and very few of your arguments have been based in fact, ie "dual buffers are on the way". Find me an authoritative source that has said that other than a sales rep from a distributor who has been wrong on many occasions.

Yes the DVR fee is $5.99 a month if you haven't had one before. Your point here would be? Tivo is $12.95 for a SA for the first and then $6.95 for each box after that point. SO I guess i'm missing the point you're trying to make. As for defending the box no sorry I have stated that you can't trash a product that has been out 2 weeks without giving them the chance to fix the box. Like it or not it's all thats going to be around from this point forward. I have MANY times brought up issues with this box, just as I brought up about my Tivo boxes when they had issues. I pay for something I want it to work just like everyone else, but I guess I am just more paitient to allow the company to fix issues.

[ad301]

Hey, you guys realize it's Thanksgiving, right? :D

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! :) :) :)

[Clint Lamor]

Hey, you guys realize it's Thanksgiving, right? :D

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! :) :) :)

Ya but i'm pretty sick so I get to do nothing all day :)

I hope you and everyone else here has a very happy and safe Thanksgiving.

[ISWIZ]

If you want dual buffers, don't get this box. Go pay for one from someone else, heck I'll sell you my Dtivo with 146 hrs on it as soon as I get this one all figured out. I'm not trying to defend DTV or anyone else, it's just that these forums used to be a place for enthusiasts to come and share tips, hacks, fixes, etc with other users. Now they're just becoming a place for whiners and folks who read that somebody said that this or that is a "piece of crap" and now that makes it so.
If you want to complain, contact the company, if you want to help, share some wisdom. If all you want to do is whine, go somewhere else.

(The above message is meant for all who offer nothing constructive to any forum!)

If I offended you personally, sorry about that.

Happy Thanksgiving.

[Donnie Byrd]

You have defended this box whenever anybody has had any negative comments about it and very few of your arguments have been based in fact, ie "dual buffers are on the way". Find me an authoritative source that has said that other than a sales rep from a distributor who has been wrong on many occasions.

raott, do you currently have an R15?

[John Duncan Yoyo]

Hey, you guys realize it's Thanksgiving, right? :D

Happy Thanksgiving to everyone! :) :) :)

Hey, we're having fun carving up this R15 Turkey. :grin:

[bidger]

That's funny John because when I got my first D-TiVo back in March of '01 it was the UTV users that liked to "carve up" the D-TiVo users on boards like this because they didn't have dual tuners at that time or PIP. If you're a satisfied D-TiVo user, wtf do you care what someone else chooses to use? Despite how you feel about it, not everyone loves or prefers TiVo.

[John Duncan Yoyo]

That's funny John because when I got my first D-TiVo back in March of '01 it was the UTV users that liked to "carve up" the D-TiVo users on boards like this because they didn't have dual tuners at that time or PIP. If you're a satisfied D-TiVo user, wtf do you care what someone else chooses to use? Despite how you feel about it, not everyone loves or prefers TiVo.

This sure isn't the users fault. DTV rushed to get this thing on the market before the holidays and before the software was ready. I wonder if they beta tested it with the type of user who would really challenge it.

Right now the R15 is dancing on the cutting edge just like the DTiVO was then but expectations are higher with more people familiar with how well their TiVO works now. If you come into to market with anything less than that capability you lose in the opinions.

[Marcia_Brady]

So far I'm not very impressed with this thing either, apparently my expectations were too high. I don't look at it from the standpoint that this is 'new technology,' because it is not. I'm comparing apples to apples here.

Hopefully, they get these bugs worked out over time....well before I swapout my HiDef units.

My main fear is that we're now dealing with D* who tends not listen as well....I SAID THEY TEND NOT TO LISTEN AS WELL.... and we often get the "well this is the first complaint we've gotten about this" answer time and again.

We had the opportunity to interact with TiVo personnel on the other forum which was an advantage. Too bad there isn't a "DirecTV_Horsie" posting here on the forum willing to answer our questions, and listen to our concerns. A REAL PERSON to bounce this stuff off of, and tell us "we're working on it, and here's what we're going to do."

I hate being made to feel out of the loop like a red-headed stepchild, while speaking with clueless D* CSR's.

I'm willing to be patient with this thing....but not that patient. I can't overlook some of the more basic functions that don't meet my expectations, but let's see how long it takes for some progress to be made.

[Donnie Byrd]

Too bad there isn't a "DirecTV_Horsie" posting here on the forum willing to answer our questions, and listen to our concerns. A REAL PERSON to bounce this stuff off of, and tell us "we're working on it, and here's what we're going to do."

I hate being made to feel out of the loop like a red-headed stepchild, while speaking with clueless D* CSR's.

I'm willing to be patient with this thing....but not that patient. I can't overlook some of the more basic functions that don't meet my expectations, but let's see how long it takes for some progress to be made.

the exact feelings of most of us but the "D* Horsie" isn't likely to happen. :nono: .....oh, i believe they're listening but how and when any progress is made of it, who knows. with two updates made to the R15 within the first couple of days after it's release, could be a good sign but lets see more, or a least an acknowledgement that they're coming soon.