And everybody has been complaining about E*

[bavaria72]

Ya know, I have been reading about how bad E* sucks for the last 18 months and how D* has their act soooo together. Well boys and girls, have you gone and look at the D* forums lately? Since D* has decided (like E* did years ago) to field their own DVR, things are not quite as smooth as they had hoped. Yes Tivo is has it's advantages but I sure in the heck would not want to the monthly fee for a recording hard drive. Interesting that Murdock has decided to follow Charlie. Maybe that guy was not so stupid as has many had proclaimed him.....

[djlong]

I've noticed this. Quite frankly, I think one can sum it up simply. Dish and DirecTV/NewsCorp are satellite programming providers. They are NOT software development houses. TiVo and Replay were software developers first.

[Milk_tec]

Sunday Ticket gives D* the advantage...at least for me.

[CCarncross]

The R15 is brand new. E* has had months even years to fix many of their recievers/DVRs, and apparently havent seem to fix one fully yet....

[A_Pac]

http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/70693 some stuff about directv dvr i saw

[mya23rd]

Ya know, I have been reading about how bad E* sucks for the last 18 months and how D* has their act soooo together. Well boys and girls, have you gone and look at the D* forums lately? Since D* has decided (like E* did years ago) to field their own DVR, things are not quite as smooth as they had hoped. Yes Tivo is has it's advantages but I sure in the heck would not want to the monthly fee for a recording hard drive. Interesting that Murdock has decided to follow Charlie. Maybe that guy was not so stupid as has many had proclaimed him.....

Of course there are gonna be people complaining about DirecTV. Frankly, I was a DTV customer many years ago until I had to switch to cable, then about a year ago I went back to DTV. I have noticed a drop off in their customer service and service in general. There are many reasons but I think one main reason is that DTV is much bigger today than it used to be and its difficult to maintain quality service. But I also had Dish Network and I have to say hands down that DirecTV is the better service. I think DirecTV is a varsity operation and Dish is not there yet. In general their programming is very similar, but it’s the little things that make the difference. DTV has much better receivers in my opinion especially in terms of interface. The program guide, menus, and general look and feel is much more aesthetically pleasing. It just looks nicer. Dish’s interface looks like its been designed by an industrial engineer. They put absolutely no effort into interface design. Their stuff looks so technical and un-user friendly. The same goes for the Dish remote controls, the appearance of their PPV and other on screen offerings. It just doesn’t look that good. You may think I am putting to much emphasis on these things but it matters to me and to a lot of other people. I had DTV first so I got used to their nice look and feel whch I think is why Dish was very unappealing to me.

It really sucks that DTV has dropped Tivo, but they are not copying Dish, it just makes sense because they want to have total control of the platform. With Tivo they were just reselling the Tivo brand and functions in their own receivers. But as more and more people get DVR’s, their functions will get more advanced and they will be used much more than for just recording shows and pausing live TV. DTV is trying to take control of what it offers customers and better be able to customize its offerings and roll out new functions and features. I think one downside is that there will be much more advertising built into the DVR with ads popping up all over the place and the device will be used to sell us more stuff. Murdoch has always been big on overloading on the advertising and bombarding you whether its with newspapers or TV and I think that is the plan for the DVR in the years to come.

[TomH]

The R15 is brand new. E* has had months even years to fix many of their recievers/DVRs, and apparently havent seem to fix one fully yet....

They've done fine with the ones I've gotten. Never had a problem in about 5 years with my 501 and six months with the 522.

[Mike D-CO5]

Rupert should have bought Tivo and made them their software platform. Now Directv will have to follow the path that Dish has been following since 99. They will have to do trial and error software to make their receivers do as well as Tivo already does. They will find out how well their software engineers are doing based on the amount of subs they keep or loose next year.

On the other side Dish has finally created a good software program with their 942s. Yes , it could be better as there is always room for improvement, but in my opinion it is the best damn receiver Dish has ever made.

[cohagen]

On the other side Dish has finally created a good software program with their 942s. Yes , it could be better as there is always room for improvement, but in my opinion it is the best damn receiver Dish has ever made.
I've never used or seen DirectTV or their DVR software. But I recently signed up with Dish for the first time 6 months ago with the 942 receiver. I am a software engineer and I find the 942 software to be really incredible. The guide, functions, remote, pausing, fast forward, etc all work flawlessly.

Does DirectTV really have a better piece of software in their top end HD DVR?

Also I think the aesthetics of the 942 software is awesome.

[Dave]

The R15 is brand new. E* has had months even years to fix many of their recievers/DVRs, and apparently havent seem to fix one fully yet....

Yes but according to the USA Today the R15 is a piece of junk and has major issues that are going to need to be worked out. DirectV has had some junk in the past. But it seems that there customers like to over look there junk they come out with. They seem to think DirectV can do no wrong.

[Mike D-CO5]

I've never used or seen DirectTV or their DVR software. But I recently signed up with Dish for the first time 6 months ago with the 942 receiver. I am a software engineer and I find the 942 software to be really incredible. The guide, functions, remote, pausing, fast forward, etc all work flawlessly.

Does DirectTV really have a better piece of software in their top end HD DVR?

The only receiver Directv has presently that is a great hd dvr is the hd Tivo , but that will become discontinued once Directv comes out with their hd dvr version. Since they have decided to end their relationship with Tivo in 2007. Rupert should have bought Tivo and made it's software their own in order to have the best software to compete with the competition. Instead he is going to do the inhouse software where his customers will be the guinnea pigs or beta testers. Much like Dish has done in the past since 1999 , and continues to do with all their new receivers.

The 942 software does some of the same things as the hd tivo does and is very similar. I have had both a stand alone Tivo and the Dishdvrs and I actually perfer Dish's version with the 625/942 receivers. I only hope the mpeg4 vip 622 receiver will be just like the 942 but with a much bigger hard drive that will have more room to record. :D

Being able to add additional hard drive space via USB port would be nice too. I know that the techs said that that feature was coming in the near future. I would love to be able to increase the hard drive space like that to record more hd. :sure:

[scooby2]

Rupert should have bought Tivo and made them their software platform. Now Directv will have to follow the path that Dish has been following since 99. They will have to do trial and error software to make their receivers do as well as Tivo already does. They will find out how well their software engineers are doing based on the amount of subs they keep or loose next year.

On the other side Dish has finally created a good software program with their 942s. Yes , it could be better as there is always room for improvement, but in my opinion it is the best damn receiver Dish has ever made.I agree they should have bought Tivo. Rumor is he tried and Tivo refused. I don't buy that for a second though since Rupert already owned NDS who makes the R-15 dvr software.

[Alpaca Bill]

I agree they should have bought Tivo. Rumor is he tried and Tivo refused. I don't buy that for a second though since Rupert already owned NDS who makes the R-15 dvr software.

He did try and he did fail...that is what led him to cancel (or not renew) the contract with Tivo for the new receivers. NDS has been trying this DVR software for DirectTv receivers for the EU for about 3 years and they still haven't got it right...evidenced by the R15. That is why he really wanted to buy Tivo...so he could put their, his, software on all his receivers and he would be able to tweak it to his or his customers' liking more than what they could do with Tivo on their own.

[juan ellitinez]

NDS developed the "sky" dvrs too

[foto_dog57]

:p

So, I agree, most of what has happened to DVR with E* sucks. I just dropped to top120 and went monthly. I just ordered the MyDTV 130 to end the SD timeshift that I am stuck with on the 508. I don't think that the 508 was bad, but man, the complaints about the HD PVR's from E*:mad: . They won't get my money anytime soon. To bad my wife has such a hard time viewing streams from my I-O data AVel Linkplayer2. Just takes time to get the remote programed to one touch. I think I'll wait to see what the vip622 really looks like. Can't be much better than the 942, can it? Maybe they pitched the code and started over...:hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah: :hurah:
MerryHolidays all

[mya23rd]

I never knew that Murdoch tried to buy Tivo but it makes sense. I don’t know the details but I’m sure Tivo did not want to sell out and I’m sure Tivo customers are happy its still independent.

One thing I don’t understand is why is it so hard to make a good DVR. I understand the tendency is to copy Tivo and I know they are actually sueing Echostar but I don’t understand why both the cable and sat companies can get it right. The interfaces are always clunky and just ugly, functions don’t always work (buffering on Comcast DVR’s), and many functions that should be there are not. I think DTV customers will are the losers because they no longer will have access to Tivo thru DTV unless they get a standalone Tivo box. DTV is going to take a really long time to fix all the bugs that arise, months or probably even years. DTV customers will suffer as these issues are worked out and as DTV tries to replicate the Tivo experience.

[buckyp]

Of course there are gonna be people complaining about DirecTV. Frankly, I was a DTV customer many years ago until I had to switch to cable, then about a year ago I went back to DTV. I have noticed a drop off in their customer service and service in general. There are many reasons but I think one main reason is that DTV is much bigger today than it used to be and its difficult to maintain quality service. But I also had Dish Network and I have to say hands down that DirecTV is the better service. I think DirecTV is a varsity operation and Dish is not there yet. In general their programming is very similar, but it’s the little things that make the difference. DTV has much better receivers in my opinion especially in terms of interface. The program guide, menus, and general look and feel is much more aesthetically pleasing. It just looks nicer. Dish’s interface looks like its been designed by an industrial engineer. They put absolutely no effort into interface design. Their stuff looks so technical and un-user friendly. The same goes for the Dish remote controls, the appearance of their PPV and other on screen offerings. It just doesn’t look that good. You may think I am putting to much emphasis on these things but it matters to me and to a lot of other people. I had DTV first so I got used to their nice look and feel whch I think is why Dish was very unappealing to me.

It really sucks that DTV has dropped Tivo, but they are not copying Dish, it just makes sense because they want to have total control of the platform. With Tivo they were just reselling the Tivo brand and functions in their own receivers. But as more and more people get DVR’s, their functions will get more advanced and they will be used much more than for just recording shows and pausing live TV. DTV is trying to take control of what it offers customers and better be able to customize its offerings and roll out new functions and features. I think one downside is that there will be much more advertising built into the DVR with ads popping up all over the place and the device will be used to sell us more stuff. Murdoch has always been big on overloading on the advertising and bombarding you whether its with newspapers or TV and I think that is the plan for the DVR in the years to come.

Just go to show, everyone has thier own opinion, and it probably goes to what you are used to. I have both D* and E* and feel the opposite of you. I think the 522 interface is much better than the tivo. But I've had E* for 8 years and D* for 6 months. So I am used to E* and would cancel D* if E* ever gets the international channels I want.

[busboy789]

for what it's worth...
I switched to DTV yesterday and got a couple of the r15s that this thread is referring to and I think they are great. The r15 is far superior, in my opinion, to the 501 and 510 that I have from Dish. I could not be happier about switching!

[treiher]

But I also had Dish Network and I have to say hands down that DirecTV is the better service. I think DirecTV is a varsity operation and Dish is not there yet. In general their programming is very similar, but it’s the little things that make the difference. DTV has much better receivers in my opinion especially in terms of interface. The program guide, menus, and general look and feel is much more aesthetically pleasing. It just looks nicer. Dish’s interface looks like its been designed by an industrial engineer. They put absolutely no effort into interface design. Their stuff looks so technical and un-user friendly. The same goes for the Dish remote controls, the appearance of their PPV and other on screen offerings. It just doesn’t look that good. You may think I am putting to much emphasis on these things but it matters to me and to a lot of other people. I had DTV first so I got used to their nice look and feel whch I think is why Dish was very unappealing to me.

Interesting comment . . . I was thinking the same in reverse. I recently helped my neighbor set up local OTA channels on his Direct TV HD receiver. He had no idea you could do this, and was watching football in standard def. every Sunday! Anyway, after I got done and went home to my 942, I was thinking wow, I am really happy I am with Dish, because of all the reasons you describe, only in reverse. But that's not fair either, because I'm comparing Dish's latest and greatest with a Direct TV non-DVR receiver that is at least a few years old. I've seen a few other attempts to do that in this thread. I have not seen Direct TV's latest version of the 942. That would be the interesting comparison to make! Just my two cents.

[zman977]

We've toyed with the idea of switching from E to D. We had Direct TV first and then switched to E in 2001 because we wanted the PVR and D did not have any deals on there TIVO's for existing customers so we switched. We are thinking of switching back mainly for the duel tuner so we could record one show while watching another. Yes the 522 does this for E but you have to have it hooked up to two different tv's. From my understanding on what I read on D's website is that their DVR only has to be hooked up to one tv. Also, we want the season pass, name based recording etc. Which E keeps pushing back the dates for the 500 series receivers. Was originally supposed to happen last spring, then the end of this year, and so far nothing has happened. That being said. We have only had problems with our 501 box. We've had two of them in the last two years because the hard drive has gone bad. We just received our third 501 box on Wednesday Our 510 has had no problems so our experience has been mixed. Good luck with one receiver, bad luck with the other one. As I said, we are just thinking about switching back to D. We have not decided for sure yet.

[LtMunst]

Yes the 522 does this for E but you have to have it hooked up to two different tv's. From my understanding on what I read on D's website is that their DVR only has to be hooked up to one tv.


The 522 does NOT have to be hooked up to 2 TVs. It will work just fine in Single Mode with 1 TV allowing you to record one thing while watching another.

[busboy789]

We've toyed with the idea of switching from E to D. We had Direct TV first and then switched to E in 2001 because we wanted the PVR and D did not have any deals on there TIVO's for existing customers so we switched. We are thinking of switching back mainly for the duel tuner so we could record one show while watching another. Yes the 522 does this for E but you have to have it hooked up to two different tv's. From my understanding on what I read on D's website is that their DVR only has to be hooked up to one tv. Also, we want the season pass, name based recording etc. Which E keeps pushing back the dates for the 500 series receivers. Was originally supposed to happen last spring, then the end of this year, and so far nothing has happened. That being said. We have only had problems with our 501 box. We've had two of them in the last two years because the hard drive has gone bad. We just received our third 501 box on Wednesday Our 510 has had no problems so our experience has been mixed. Good luck with one receiver, bad luck with the other one. As I said, we are just thinking about switching back to D. We have not decided for sure yet.

the dual tuner was my main reason for switching. Dtv offered me two dual tuners for $200 and then $100 mail in rebate. oh yeah, without the $5 lease fee that E* was going to charge me for the 522 that it would let me pay to lease and with only one dvr fee per account, and of course the name based recording!

[LtMunst]

the dual tuner was my main reason for switching. Dtv offered me two dual tuners for $200 and then $100 mail in rebate. oh yeah, without the $5 lease fee that E* was going to charge me for the 522 that it would let me pay to lease and with only one dvr fee per account, and of course the name based recording!

The 522 does name based recording also. ;)

[navychop]

Keep in mind the D* TiVO is history. The contract expires in 2007. D* already no longer pushes it, but will provide it if requested. There might never be a TiVO D* MPEG-4 HD DVR. The "15" DVR that D* has replaced it with has, shall we say, poor reviews. I'm sure they'll eventually fix the problems. But they'll never have the 30 second skip ahead function that E* receivers do. Previous D* receivers did not even tell you how much time was left on the DVR for recording. Maybe the "15" does or will.

And I seem to remember the E* remote has won awards. I certainly like it.

The E* 942 has very good reviews, and the 622 seems to be based on the 942. We don't know for sure, we'll find out about that later. E* equipment today seems to be at least as good as D* equipment. As for the most current DVRs, the E* stuff (942) is certainly better than the stuff D* is pushing (15) from that other company controlled by Murdoch.

[busboy789]

The 522 does name based recording also. ;)

you are correct. I should have made that a bit clearer. I have/had a 501 and a 510 that Charlie has been promising to get name based recording for, but has not.

[djlong]

Every time I'm tempted to trust E* I look at the 942 support forum. The thread on L283 makes me want to avoid E*'s hardware because it looks like they haven't learned much from the Dishplayer days onward. And that's frustrating to me because I prefer E*'s service!

[DCSholtis]

http://www.tgdaily.com/2005/12/28/cesrumor_dvr_partnership_mobilemedia/

Maybe there is hope yet for Tivo and D*.....

[ThomasTrain]

Every time I'm tempted to trust E* I look at the 942 support forum. The thread on L283 makes me want to avoid E*'s hardware because it looks like they haven't learned much from the Dishplayer days onward. And that's frustrating to me because I prefer E*'s service!

Well, actually, I am a relic from the old days of the 7100/7200 dishplayer. I can say without hesitation that the 942 is absolutely PERFECT when compared to the buggy P.O.S. dishplayers. Granted there are some *minor* issues that remain with the 942 but fortunately, I have not experienced most of them. Now considering it took Dish over 6 years to get the Dishplayers *relatively* stable (I still have one), at least they've resolved most of the bugs with the 942 in under a year.

That being said, I'd still hold off for the Vip622 for the Mpeg4 support because the software is based on the 942/625/522 codebase. Hopefully, there wont be many bugs at initial release, but I will be an early adopter.

[bavaria72]

....It really sucks that DTV has dropped Tivo, but they are not copying Dish, ...... With Tivo they were just reselling the Tivo brand and functions in their own receivers..

Are you sure about this? That would seem to be major copyright infringement. Of course they want their own box and not pay somebody else. I wonder what the business case looked like on them buying Tivo out? I'll bet it looks pretty good right now....

[Ghostwriter]

I think TiVos suvival/demise will be when the verdict of their trial against E* comes to fruition.

[UTFAN]

Now both satellite providers can't develop a reliable DVR platform.

As much as I admire the concept of vertical integration, perhaps both companies would be wise to contract with outside companies who have the know how.

Ultimately I don't care who designs my receivers or DVR's. I just care that they work.

At our house, the main culprit is the 921, destined to go down as one of the biggest design disasters in the industry. Our 721 and 508 models work just fine.

But HD is the future, and I'm hoping for two things:

1. That whatever "next-generation" HD receiver not only works, but has DVR as well.

2. That it won't cost me another fortune like we paid for the 921. I understand all the "early adaptor" stuff, but my goodness, HD ain't exactly a new technology.

See ya'll at the Rose Bowl! Look for me wearing burnt orange, Section 9, Row 46!

HOOK'EM HORNS!!

[navychop]

My 721 & 508 work fine, just like yours. And by most reports, the 942 works fine too. So E* certainly can develop a reliable DVR. And my E* DVRs have features Tivo doesn't- like that 30 second skip button.

I expect I'll pay about $700 for a VIP622 in February. And if the rumor is true, and Tivo has signed contracts with D* & E* to provide MPEG-4 HD DVRs for both companies, then I'll have to look at their offering. But I'll probably stay with E* equipment. I surely love that 30 second skip button.

[Ron Barry]

Interesting rumor.. Dish and DirecTV signed contracts for providing HD PVRs. hmmmm.. that one does not make sense given the directions both companies are going. But what do I know.. Stranger things have happend.

[LtMunst]

Interesting rumor.. Dish and DirecTV signed contracts for providing HD PVRs. hmmmm.. that one does not make sense given the directions both companies are going. But what do I know.. Stranger things have happend.

Yeah, this makes no sense. D* just kicked Tivo to the curb and brought out their own DVR only to announce a new partnership? Don't think so.

[zman977]

The 522 does NOT have to be hooked up to 2 TVs. It will work just fine in Single Mode with 1 TV allowing you to record one thing while watching another.


We were told that by the CSR when we signed up for a 522 but the installer told us it could not be done. I must have argued with him for a half hour that it indeed could be done on one tv before I had enough and canceled the install. I guess I just had an idiot for an installer.

[cohagen]

Must say the 942 works pretty damn good for me. I frequent the 942 forum and most bugs and issues people have are not show stoppers. Just small issues with workarounds. Overall I think the 942 is bad ass.

Have to agree with others too, the way I advance through advertisements is tapping the 30 second advance button several times, then when I see my show back on, I tap the advance back button (which I think must be like 10 seconds). With these two buttons it provides a very effective way of getting through ads.

Also, does the top of the line DirectTV receiver have 300x speed fast-forward / rewind? I find that is a great feature too of the 942. Also, does the top of the line DirectTV receiver allow for batch deleting of saved shows?

Every function of the 942 works very quickly for me and I really have no complaints.

[LtMunst]

.... I guess I just had an idiot for an installer.

Yup.

[tsmacro]

We were told that by the CSR when we signed up for a 522 but the installer told us it could not be done. I must have argued with him for a half hour that it indeed could be done on one tv before I had enough and canceled the install. I guess I just had an idiot for an installer.


Yeah, you did have an idiot for an installer. I've had a 522 for nearly two years now and it's only ever been connected to one tv.